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http://i.imgur.com/MmCcq.jpg[/MG]

The final 7 on each company's lineup.[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/CZZTB.png

 

[Erethian]

Stuff like this and the eventual 'Super/Ultimate' version are great reasons to wait until the final version of the game is released.

 

[Ponn]

Stop thinking you are entitled to everything that a developer is working on while making a game.

Not everything they are working on during development, just you know, the stuff that is actually ON THE DISC i buy they later try to sell me as "downloadable content".

Your pizza was already complete. You just wanted 3 more slices.

More like give you a large pizza then decide they could make a little more money and take the 3 slices out of the box after setting it down in front of you.

These characters would not exist if they weren't planned for DLC. Why don't people get this? Capcom pays dev teams and artists to work on more characters because they are planned as DLC.

This is getting to be a really annoying apathetic/just bend me over and do what you want bullshit excuse. There is no evidence they wouldn't exist and you can fudge any numbers on a budget sheet to explain a separate cost for each and every character or any scenario/characters of any game in development. This is an excuse to trot out to the naive or the people that just want to accept the new DLC overlords and justify it to themselves.

I was actually thinking about buying this Tuesday but count me out, can't stand content on discs tactics. It's dirty business and unethical in every regard, no defense whatsoever.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

If you're not downloading the content, it can't be downloadable content.

Again, if this was always planned as DLC, why would they hold back the game relase for it? They obviously did because it is on the disc, meaning development time was put into it that could have been spent on getting the rest of the game done.

If you want to buy it, buy it. My point is just that if games started costing $80 tomorrow, people would throw a fit. But the fact they can do it this way and people think it's fine is lame to me.

the "content" is the download key. You want to play semantics with what the word "content" means? At the end of the day, you were never going to get these extra characters for free. That was decided long ago. It's an added revenue stream for these companies. By all accounts it's planned far ahead of time as such. Most likely if it wasn't around you'd just be getting the same games we've always been getting and these extra characters would never exist. I don't' see the big deal. If you don't like the game, don't buy it or don't buy the DLC, but having extra content for people that love the games they play is not a bad thing to me. If you would have told me back in the day I could have paid $15 for a few extra characters in SF2 or Mortal Kombat, or some new maps in Goldeneye, 6 months after the game came out, I would have thought it was awesome.

 

[Noshino]

You have zero proof of this twice made statement. This was all done at the same time as everything else, obviously, it's on the disk. If it added to the development time, why wouldn't they release the game sooner, and work on the DLC after the game went gold.



The difference is that they are now using a quarter less cheese and sauce, and charging you if you want the 25% that used to be included in the initial price.



I have ZERO problem with DLC. This isn't DLC. Literally. It isn't DLC.

You also have Zero proof of it being otherwise.

Uh, what does release date have to do with it? How many times have we had games go gold just to wait for a release date?

Once again, there is nothing to back up any of what you are saying

 

[LowParry]

Stuff like this and the eventual 'Super/Ultimate' version are great reasons to wait until the final version of the game is released.

I guess we'll see you next year then.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

lol "unethical". All it's doing is speeding up the delivery method for content. If I wanted to buy the extra characters, I'd much rather it take 10 seconds to download a key than 20 minutes to download all the data. I'm not saying they are doing me a favor, but at the end of the day, it's a matter of convenience. Unethical would be if they were deceiving you or lying about what you are getting. They aren't. When you go to the store to buy the game you are getting everything they promised you.

 

[Skilletor]

Stuff like this and the eventual 'Super/Ultimate' version are great reasons to wait until the final version of the game is released.

Wanting to have fun for hundreds of hours until the next version comes out is a great reason to buy it right now. YMMV

 

[LumpOfCole]

I'm not a fan of using analogies to argue these kinds of concepts since the goods/services are always different - but your analogy doesn't make sense.

When you buy a game, you get access to the content that you buy.

If you bought a PS3, you should have the ability to do whatever the hell you want to it - you own the PS3, not Sony.

To use your analogy - you buy a pizza, it's a pepperoni pizza - you're about to take a bite and the store owner goes 'whoa, hold on, you didn't buy that pepperoni slice, that'll cost you .99c more'.

You're buying the game - the content is on the disc - why do you need to pay more to play it?

Unfortunately for us, developers and publishers are moving more and more toward a model that says we don't even own the software we pay for - we simply license it in parts. Take Windows 7 Home Premium: Pro and Ultimate are on the disk you pay for, but unlocking either set of features costs a lot of money.

Games this generation are on the verge of that mentality. You already see it with MMOs and Free-to-Play titles. I'm beginning to imagine fighting games coming out for free where 4 characters are unlocked, and each additional DLC character is $10 or playing/winning a crazy number of matches. Riot Games is making a fortune with this business model, and it's only a matter of time before other games follow suit.

 

[davepoobond]

i dont see how it is really an issue, since they could have just removed it from the disc, sold it to you later, and take up space on your hard drive to provide you with something that was already completed.


if it isn't worth it to you, don't buy it.

whether or not it comes on the disc doesn't matter. if you have to pay for access, you still have to pay for access.

 

[Unicorn]

You also have Zero proof of it being otherwise.

Uh, what does release date have to do with it? How many times have we had games go gold just to wait for a release date?

Once again, there is nothing to back up any of what you are saying

So why fucking mention it either way? huehue

 

[SmithnCo]

More like give you a large pizza then decide they could make a little more money and take the 3 slices out of the box after setting it down in front of you.

They're not tricking you though. You're buying what you're buying. If you think the large pizza with three less slices is worth it, then you'll buy it.

 

[Erethian]

Wanting to have fun for hundreds of hours until the next version comes out is a great reason to buy it right now. YMMV

Well obviously I'm only talking for myself.

But I also don't think it's a great strategy for the long-term sustainability of the genre.

 

[Noshino]

lol "unethical". All it's doing is speeding up the delivery method for content. If I wanted to buy the extra characters, I'd much rather it take 10 seconds to download a key than 20 minutes to download all the data. I'm not saying they are doing me a favor, but at the end of the day, it's a matter of convenience. Unethical would be if they were deceiving you or lying about what you are getting. They aren't. When you go to the store to buy the game you are getting everything they promised you.

Not just time.

Some people forget that there are many out there who's ISPs are so great that there are usage caps on their internet service.

 

[The Return of]

More like give you a large pizza then decide they could make a little more money and take the 3 slices out of the box after setting it down in front of you.

No

Basically, it's you wanting a large pizza and the store telling you, you can get another small pizza for 5 bucks. You decline and just get a large pizza. They make a small pizza right in front of your ass right alongside the large pizza anyway. Then, they put the large pizza in a cardboard box and the small pizza in a metal container that cannot be opened and say call when you want to pay that 5 bucks. hahaha....

 

[WrenchNinja]

These pizza analogies are worse than the burger analogies in the from ashes thread.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

the "content" is the download key. You want to play semantics with what the word "content" means? At the end of the day, you were never going to get these extra characters for free. That was decided long ago. It's an added revenue stream for these companies. By all accounts it's planned far ahead of time as such. Most likely if it wasn't around you'd just be getting the same games we've always been getting and these extra characters would never exist. I don't' see the big deal. If you don't like the game, don't buy it or don't buy the DLC, but having extra content for people that love the games they play is not a bad thing to me. If you would have told me back in the day I could have paid $15 for a few extra characters in SF2 or Mortal Kombat, or some new maps in Goldeneye, 6 months after the game came out, I would have thought it was awesome.

Yeah, when the average consumer buys these characters they'll be thinking "the content I'm paying $15 for is an unlock key". No, the content they are selling are the characters. There isn't going to be an ad on Xbox live that says "1200MSP For SFxTekken Unlock Codes!"

I get your points, and I agree about being willing spend money six months later on more Goldeneye maps (the things I would have done...) But this way just seems sleezy to me. That's all. I mean, if I went the the Rare saleman and gave him $15 (or hand jobs) for new maps and then he simply picks up my controller and pushes up up down down and shit appears, I'd be pissed.

You also have Zero proof of it being otherwise.

Uh, what does release date have to do with it? How many times have we had games go gold just to wait for a release date?

Once again, there is nothing to back up any of what you are saying

Agreed, I'm guessing, like you are. Only you stated yours as facts, twice.

I guess we'll see you next year then.

Or eight months. Gotta get those holiday sales.

 

[The Return of]

These pizza analogies are worse than the burger analogies in the from ashes thread.

it's cracking me up honestly. I think everything in gaming should have food analogies now

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

These pizza analogies are worse than the burger analogies in the from ashes thread.

Everyone likes pizza.

 

[Ponn]

They're not tricking you though. You're buying what you're buying. If you think the large pizza with three less slices is worth it, then you'll buy it.

I don't and I won't. Simple as that. I'm speaking with my money and I know in the end it won't matter but there it is. Others can justify it to themselves but I do find it unethical low behavior. They could have at least made an attempt to make it more palatable like they did by making it part of a SE edition like Shuma + Jill or like the ME3 DLC with the CE. I find those tactics dirty as well but there is an option to get what is on the disc out of the box at least with those (well, the ME3 is actual DLC though).

 

[jackdoe]

whether or not it comes on the disc doesn't matter. if you have to pay for access, you still have to pay for access.

Definitely. I dislike the DLC completely, but there honestly isn't any difference between including it on the disc or taking it out and forcing you to download.

On the flipside, what do people feel about DLC that is an unlock key for content included in a patch (GT 5)?

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

They're not tricking you though. You're buying what you're buying.

This statement is true at the end of the day, I suppose. Even though I'm not okay with the situation, if they tell you this is what you're buying and you buy it, you can't bitch about not getting more. Fair enough.

The sleezy (or trick) part of it is the pretending like it's not on the disc, and not being upfront about DLC plans. I'm sure even now they'll throw out some bullshit reason like "they aren't finished/balanced" or some such shit.

I do remember Ono saying at their launch party about Blanka not being entirely finished yet we see him on disc. So I'm curious if the characters we see now aren't full move set characters.

Damn, happening already. Only way we'd know is by comparing how he is now to how he is after he is "released". I feel it's a pretty safe bet to say he's full of shit, the characters on the disc are done. We'll see though, if people care enough to check.

 

[LowParry]

I do remember Ono saying at their launch party about Blanka not being entirely finished yet we see him on disc. So I'm curious if the characters we see now aren't full move set characters.

 

[Jeels]

I don't and I won't.

Okay, then quit saying Capcom is treating you like shit. You made your decision as a consumer. No one is forcing you to do anything.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

Okay, then quit saying Capcom is treating you like shit. You made your decision as a consumer. No one is forcing you to do anything.

"You shut your fucking mouth if you're going to disagree with me!"

Did he say something about someone forcing him to do something?

Just for a thought, how possible is it that character models and animations are finalized, however they are not fully configured in terms of timing/balancing? A model and animation set does not make a fighting game and it would make sense for them to say something is not done if just the visual components are.

If they're honest, that's all a fair enough reason to me. We'll really never know though, and I'm a cynical ass hole, especially if we are seeing fully functional characters in youtube videos.

 

[NfoRcEr]

The sleezy (or trick) part of it is the pretending like it's not on the disc, and not being upfront about DLC plans. I'm sure even now they'll throw out some bullshit reason like "they aren't finished/balanced" or some such shit.

One thing that I haven't seen anyone mention is that normally within 1-2 weeks of DLC being released, there is always a mandatory patch. If you don't patch, you can't play online, and you can't buy DLC characters.

Just for a thought, how possible is it that character models and animations are finalized, however they are not fully configured in terms of timing/balancing? A model and animation set does not make a fighting game and it would make sense for them to say something is not done if just the visual components are.

While I understand the frustration, I have a feeling you are very much stuck on the "I own the disc, I own the game," however, ever since the DMCA was passed, that disc just holds the software that you are licensed to use in legal terms.

 

[Duxxy3]

Not supporting this.

edit: SFxT is not worth $60 to me and it sure as hell isn't worth $60 plus another $20 or so for all of the characters.

 

[JakkuFurosu]

well...next time I order a pizza I will certainly double check it before paying them....which will be in 30-45 minutes thanks to this thread

 

[alr1ght]

SHOCKING

If people keep lapping it up, this will continue to happen.

 

[toastyToast]

I don't take issue with the character data being on the disc. They were always intended to be paid for separately.

I'm more concerned about the pricing. If I want to continue to play the game I'll be obligated to pick up the 12 characters. It won't be like MvC3 where you run into a Jill once every 200 matches or a Shuma (lol) ever. These characters are going to be a substantial addition to the game.

Hope they don't end up costing more than $20

edit: SFxT is not worth $60 to me and it sure as hell isn't worth $60 plus another $20 or so for all of the characters.

Do you buy any fighting games then? This game features 38 characters, 2v2 tag and tornado tag with scramble, a complete tutorial, trials, online training on top of the usual suspects.

 

[Polyphonic]

Unfortunately for us, developers and publishers are moving more and more toward a model that says we don't even own the software we pay for - we simply license it in parts. Take Windows 7 Home Premium: Pro and Ultimate are on the disk you pay for, but unlocking either set of features costs a lot of money.

Games this generation are on the verge of that mentality. You already see it with MMOs and Free-to-Play titles. I'm beginning to imagine fighting games coming out for free where 4 characters are unlocked, and each additional DLC character is $10 or playing/winning a crazy number of matches. Riot Games is making a fortune with this business model, and it's only a matter of time before other games follow suit.

What Riot sells is purely cosmetic, and does not affect the gameplay such as restricting characters to players who do not pay.

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

SHOCKING NEWS?

 

[Ponn]

"You shut your fucking mouth if you're going to disagree with me!"

I know right.

I weep for the future of gaming as a consumer with these attitudes, how dare we stand up for what we feel isn't right or speak up. Just shut up and be good little consumers and pay for whatever they give us.

I blame it on the incredibly close relationship publishers and developers can build with its fanbase unlike any other industry (imo).

 

[SolarPowered]

I'm not a fan of this, but...

Is it better or worse than releasing another disc 8 months later?

It is better if these characters are still not complete. I'm not a fan of completely done DLC characters being on the disc with an unlock code.

I'll take anything over UMvC3 straight up though. That situation was a big mess. I won't even touch a game if there is a slight possibility of a "super" or "ultimate" version in the same year.

 

[Grayman]

DLC = disc locked content

It is a shitty thing to split up content of a fighting game but if capcom doesn't care if their game is shit why should I care to play it.

 

[LowParry]

DLC = disc locked content

It is a shitty thing to split up content of a fighting game but if capcom doesn't care if their game is shit why should I care to play it.

Can you put that in pizza terms?

 

[fernoca]

I remember a similar fiasco for Mortal Kombat and Marvel vs. Capcom 3, but in both cases they were on disc but unfinished (playable, but not completely done)

Nope...for Mortal Kombat at least.
Skarlett's basic information (like her name and some misc. details) was found on the disc/engine data but nothing else. The incomplete character model, babality, etc. that were leaked, were obtained through partner-net around the release; as they were testing her online.

 

[Blueblur1]

How am I not surprised.

 

[toastyToast]

I'll take anything over UMvC3 straight up though. That situation was a big mess. I won't even touch a game if there is a slight possibility of a "super" or "ultimate" version in the same year.

While too soon, it's the most convenient solution for updating a fighting game.

I have my reservations about tying the complete version of SFxT with a PSN account/Gamertag

 

[Duxxy3]

Do you buy any fighting games then? This game features 38 characters, 2v2 tag and tornado tag with scramble, a complete tutorial, trials, online training on top of the usual suspects.

Yes i do. The last time i spent more than $40 on a fighting game was street fighter alpha for the saturn.

$60 (or theoretically $80) is way over what i would ever pay for a fighting game.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

Can you put that in pizza terms?

Replace "Capcom" with "Little Caesars" and "game" with "pizza". Done.

 

[Grayman]

Can you put that in pizza terms?

The pizzaria promises a ham and pineapple pizza. When the pizza arrives at the door the pineapple is there but you cannot see, taste, or get nutrients from it until you pay an additional fee. Even when the pizza goes on sale it consists of phantom pineapple. Oh and the cook pissed in your pizza because his name is capcom and he thinks he can get away with it.

 

[Foffy]

I have a question: is this on disc content actually playable? As in, if someone pirates the game, they can play with all of this and I have to not only pay for the game but the DLC? Because if so, I'm buying this game used and doing all I can to support Capcom as little as possible, even if that means waiting for a "GOTY Edition" that has this stuff unlocked already. That is if I even care about the game anymore, considering this is Capcom, after all.

If they're on the disc, finished, and you're still charging me for them despite the purchase I've already made, you have released an incomplete product and you don't deserve my money. I don't give a damn what the reason is. They pulled this shit with a lot of their other games. Does anyone not forget the "DLC" they had for Resident Evil 5 that Capcom outright lied about and claimed it was made separate from development, not on the disc, and all it took to play it was an unlock key?

And here I am wondering why the only major title I felt fully satisfied with purchasing in the last few months was Dark Souls. At least I know I got a full game.

 

[JakkuFurosu]

Replace "Capcom" with "Little Caesars" and "games" with "pizza". Done.

wait wat, this wont do....i enjoy l little caesars, can we do dominos instead

 

[LowParry]

wait wat, this wont do....i enjoy l little caesars, can we do dominos instead

I was thinking Pizza Hut.

 

[The Return of]

Come on now. Capcom is pizza hut for sure. Their pizzas cost more than most pizza places and greasy as fuck but you can't help but to buy their pizzas anyway because the actual taste is so good.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

I like Dominos since they changed their shit however long ago that was. You are a fucking crazy person if you enjoy little caesars. Or drunk. Crazy or drunk. Those are the two little caesar options.

EDIT: I like pizza hut, too! Fuck you guys. Shit is about to get real heated in this thread.

 

[Grayman]

I was thinking Pizza Hut.

What is the stuffed crust? outfits?

 

[LowParry]

I like Dominos since they changed their shit however long ago that was. You are a fucking crazy person if you enjoy little caesars. Or drunk. Crazy or drunk. Those are the two little caesar options.

EDIT: I like pizza hut too! Fuck you guys. Shit is about to get real heated in this thread.

Dude, Dominoes has some awesome chicken though.

 

[tenchir]

You don't own the code, content, and asset to the game when you buy the game. We have never own them at all, all we own is the license to access the game contents and it doesn't have to be complete access. It's much like Windows OS such as Windows 7/Vista. Even though each Windows installation disc contains the whole software for Starter, Standard, Professional, and Ultimate... You don't get acess to all the features of Ultimate when you pay for Starter even thought they are on the same disc. You have to pay more for more stuff.