GrandHarrier
Member
3DS is supposed to be portable. The stand is not portable.
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Kid Icarus should be held more accountable for it's controls
- Thread starter AgentOtaku
- Start date
3DS is supposed to be portable. The stand is not portable.
Trancetronic
Member
Guys don't worry about controls, the second best player in the world says they are just fine.
EDIT, wait you mean 2nd place in each match?
3 out of 5 matches
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Let me count the ways.
1) The aforementioned "Nintendo fanboys" is a massive strawman that you take distinct pleasure in ripping into again and again. Want to continue using that particular one? Go for it. See how hard I cry? If this was paper, the ink would be so smeared, it would be awful.
2) The claim that anyone in this thread things that the "complains" must be silenced.
Nobody says that. Strawman.
3) That the problem people have with your argument isn't semantic, but based on ego bruising, as shown in the first quote above. An extension of the first strawman, but different enough to be mentioned.
4) That there's anyone attacking you for anything other that semantic reasons. Your claims that these "complains" are factual is complete and utter nonsense, and demonstrates a distinct lack of knowledge on what the word actually means.
It is a fact that some people have issues with the controls. You seem to think that people are arguing against this. Arguing against this is a strawman because it is not the case.
It is not a fact that the controls are bad. That is delusional. And yet:
So there's my bruised ego. God I'm just so sad.
Man, I get that it's uncomfortable for some people and that sucks, but requesting dual analog controls for this game misses the point.
What intensity level are you going to use dual analog controls on? 1? 2? Cause it's not gonna be the other end of the spectrum. There's no way that you could use imprecise dual analog controls to play an intensity higher than five in this game. Unless you also want the generous amounts of auto-aim to come along with the dual analog set up like normal, in which case I hate you.
Fucking hate auto-aim.
What intensity level are you going to use dual analog controls on? 1? 2? Cause it's not gonna be the other end of the spectrum. There's no way that you could use imprecise dual analog controls to play an intensity higher than five in this game. Unless you also want the generous amounts of auto-aim to come along with the dual analog set up like normal, in which case I hate you.
Fucking hate auto-aim.
UncleSporky
Member
It's not worth it. Someone who can't tell the difference between facts and opinions is going to have a hell of a time figuring out what a straw man is.
Tell me about it. I tried to put the thing in my coat pocket and the leather exploded it was so big.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Shush. I'm avoiding the real work I should be doing right now.
Am I one of the few people who uses a Circle Pad Pro and aims with the A/B/X/Y buttons? Perhaps Peace Walker on the PSP got me used to that control scheme but it seems less painful to my hands, and makes using the 3D less annoying, considering the stylus input really makes you move the system.
I actually use the face buttons for aiming while on-foot at the moment. Much more comfortable despite the lack of accuracy.
pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
So is this thread about weak minded people who can't open their mind and learn a new control scheme or what? The game offers tons of options for control schemes/sensitivity/the works, but because it doesn't offer the traditional dual analog control scheme it needs to be held accountable? Lolwut. There's plenty of people saying there's a learning curve. If you're not willing to put up with it or can't get it at all, stop playing. Move on.
I adjusted to the controls by the end of the first level, and I don't use the stand (am right handed, though). I just lean over and use my knee. At 6'1", it's probably not great for my back/neck, but I do it all the time playing portables anyway. I don't really have to change my grip either, I just use three fingers on my left hand to hold the left side up and my knee for the right side. Again, I've done this a while, so there was little to no adjustment on the comfort standpoint. I have played for at least an hour straight without any cramps. The only adapting to the controls came with controlling the camera by flicking it left and right and tapping it when you're done as well as getting used to dashing. Also worth noting: I have relatively big hands (palm to middle finger is like 8 inches).
This post isn't really to discount those who had problems. It's just to say that those who had no problems (regardless of hand size) aren't lying. I definitely understand left-handers having problems because my left-handed writing is awful.
Random thoughts: Playing Metroid Prime Hunters when it came out probably helped me. I wish they had a dual analog scheme for the people that don't like this one, even if I think it would have been worse for competitive play. I'm glad the game lets you change the difficulty.
This post isn't really to discount those who had problems. It's just to say that those who had no problems (regardless of hand size) aren't lying. I definitely understand left-handers having problems because my left-handed writing is awful.
Random thoughts: Playing Metroid Prime Hunters when it came out probably helped me. I wish they had a dual analog scheme for the people that don't like this one, even if I think it would have been worse for competitive play. I'm glad the game lets you change the difficulty.
I dunno about others, by my issue is one of comfort not functionality.
Refreshment.01
Member
That's easy to clarify. My problem is not with "Nintendo fanboys" is fanatics in general. Im not constructing "strawmen" for when i refer to fanaticism because it something real that we see everyday in message boards. People grasping at straws to defend their point of view.
The original poster was being criticized for making complaints. There have been situations in which the complainer of KI controls is considered "weak sause" in other threads. Anyway, this is a f@cking trivial point to argue, don't know why you even mentioned.... wait i do know.hardcastlemccormick said:
A large group of people, more than we normally see, is complaining about control issues. So it should be considered a real problem. So what now?hardcastlemccormick said:
You just chose to center in this "semantic" matter just to argue back. This is not a discussion about "semantics", it is a discussion about potential issues controlling the game. And my observations in regards to these have been valid. So what now? The point of argument should be my atrocious orthography?
Yea, i'll be missing your up to the point and brilliant examples, like Mario Kart Wheel vs KI stand. Maybe you and hardcastlemccormick should continue the team up so you have chances to conceive some good arguments back.
These kind of topics (or any topic) never diminish my enjoyment of a game and or system. However, these kind of threads are necessary for those who feel the need to discuss the issues they may have with software or hardware at a safe distance away from the OT's.
The next time someone in the KI OT keeps harping on bad controls you can point them to this thread, and ask them to keep it in here. I spoke my piece on the controls, and now I'm going back to read the OT.
I'm not going to wast my time debating with someone over something that is completely subjective in my eyes. Gunvalkyrie comes to mind.
PataHikari
Banned
But... Stylus controls are far better then using an analog stick for aiming.
pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
I haven't read through the thread, but have you tried using the stand on a table that sits a little bit higher than you? (like if you're sitting, the edge of the table is at like lower chest height) That's what I use. I can't hold the 3DS with my left hand while using the game, it cramps up.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
So you fully admit to using this strawman and even claim it is real in this argument. That makes it even worse.
In that case, I'm going to construct you as a 3DS hater and cast stones at you for blindly attacking the system even though I have no truth of it being so, just because other people do it in some other thread so that must be the case.
The original poster was criticized for wanting more accountability for his opinion on controls, despite that already happening. So, you're using another strawman. Do you see why you are the king of these things? Lord and master!
If you had wanted that to be a part of your argument, you would have included it. But you didn't. Besides, "other people in other threads" isn't exactly a great point.
Is it trivial? It's integral to the point you're making.
Large?
Also, that is indeed the question. Why was this thread made? What kind of accountability should occur? Where in the world is Carmen Sandiago? These questions are a mystery.
Except it is, because you keep on using these words incorrectly and your point gets all fucked up in the process.
And if you think your orthography is bad, you should see my handwriting when my ego's been bruised! Keyboards. Love 'em.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
It's portable enough to suit all of my needs.
I don't know about you but I am generally not moving around a lot when I'm playing games at home. I really don't see why it's such a hassle to set a pillow in your lap and put the 3DS on a stand. It takes all of 20 seconds or so. Again, if you're interested in taking the system on a train or something then I can understand why this is an issue, but sitting on the couch at home I just don't see why it's such a big deal.
Is there a factual list of what controls are good / bad? I want to know so I can be prepared in the future and make sure I'm right.
I like the controls in Kid Icarus, which are factually bad so I think something may be wrong with me. I'm also not very good at Dual Analog aiming, which is factually good. This also points to something being wrong with me.
Do I see a doctor for this? Does Nintendo owe me money?
I like the controls in Kid Icarus, which are factually bad so I think something may be wrong with me. I'm also not very good at Dual Analog aiming, which is factually good. This also points to something being wrong with me.
Do I see a doctor for this? Does Nintendo owe me money?
I'll give that a shot later.
The main issue I'm having is stylus comfort. It really digs into my finger which becomes uncomfortable after a bit. I might have to dig up a full size pen stylus for this one.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
You don't need to do anything since the issue probably can't be solved, but you do need to be held accountable for your erroneous taste.
I hold the stylus really differently but it might be something worth trying. Basically I don't hold it like a pen, I actually hold it so it's "under" my hand, if you can imagine that. I keep it between my thumb and middle finger and let my index finger rest on top of it near the end. It's kind of hard to describe but hopefully this makes sense.dark10x said:
Controls are never "factual".
What works for some people, might not work for others.
It is a fact though that the Stylus offers more precision than Dual Analog ever could.
Whether you like that or not is another matter.
The stand still sucks, because it's flimsy when using it on my bed. I love playing handheld games while laying/lounging in bed, and it is possible with Kid Icarus and the stand, but it's not comfortable.
It's beyond ridiculous that I have to play this game while sitting at a table. A game, especially one on a portable, shouldn't force you to make such concessions.
It's beyond ridiculous that I have to play this game while sitting at a table. A game, especially one on a portable, shouldn't force you to make such concessions.
Splash Wave
Member
Being left-handed I thought I'd be one of the primary victims of KI's weird control scheme, but I was able to adjust to the default right-handed controls without much of a problem. This may have something to do with my getting accustomed to using a mouse with my right hand over the years, as I can aim fairly well. What I find most problematic is the size and weight of the 3DS not being conducive to holding it in one hand--my index finger gets sore from having to constantly mash the L button (and mine squeaks, too).
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
I didn't buy a DSiXL stylus for this game, but they're incredibly nice.
Refreshment.01
Member
Subjective or not its besides the point, the game is getting a lot of complains in regards to its controls. Some refer to it's unusual setup, some in terms of ergonomics or both.
Yet some defensive people, want to argue back in some way, so they derail the thread to semantics or the ineptitude of not knowing what a strawman is. Everyone knows that grasping the concept of what an "strawman" is makes KI control issues suddenly disappear
Oh, i kind of get why (maybe) is the confusion. The "fact" is a larger group of people, more than usual, is complaining about the controls in this game. That's what i consider "the fact". Is that so bad?
The_Darkest_Red
Member
No one is trying to derail the thread in order to avoid the real issue here, it just rubs some people the wrong way when you state things as "fact" that are completely subjective.Subjective or not its besides the point, the games getting a lot of complains in regards to its controls. Some refer to it's unusual setup, some in terms of ergonomics or both.
Yet some defensive people, want to argue back in some way, so they derail the thread to semantics or the ineptitude of not knowing what a strawman is. Everyone knows that grasping the concept of what an "strawman" is makes KI control issues suddenly disappear
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Subjective or not its besides the point, the game is getting a lot of complains in regards to its controls. Some refer to it's unusual setup, some in terms of ergonomics or both.
Yet some defensive people, want to argue back in some way, so they derail the thread to semantics or the ineptitude of not knowing what a strawman is. Everyone knows that grasping the concept of what an "strawman" is makes KI control issues suddenly disappear
And now you're claiming that my attacks exist because I wish to defend the controls.
My god, you just keep on digging your hole deeper.
I think double tapping can do this, as well as the X button if that's what you set it to.
Like playing a light gun game with a Dual Shock, using an analog stick to aim would take forever to move the crosshair around the screen. Doable for shooters, not so much for what's essentially a bullet hell game.
And yes, OP is not writing a book report. However OP's spelling and grammar makes it very easy for me to skip past his posts in the future.
And yes, OP is not writing a book report. However OP's spelling and grammar makes it very easy for me to skip past his posts in the future.
blizzardjesus
Banned
with standard controls X toggles first person.
you're double tapping the screen
I was afraid of that. Is there some audio stream where Refreshment.01 can berate me for my foolish preferences that seem to cloud my ability to empirically measure game control goodness?
When I leave my office I'm going to go home try to see through my enjoyment of this game and really focus in on how objectively wrong and bad the controls are.
TheUnknownForce
Member
Double tap the screen to zoom in with select weapons.
CosmicQueso
Member
Yeah, you kinda missed the point, didn't you? That's alright, keep studying, student.
Ah, thank you. Double tapping would make sense. I might be doing it by mistake while trying to spin the camera.
Been using a pen I got w/ a Wacom tablet years ago and it feels tons better than the standard metal stylus. Seems silly to pay big bucks just for the stylus though, maybe you could jury-rig something out of a plastic stylus, electrical tape and some thin piping insulation? Just a thought.
and I've said this before, but do give this a try:
http://getnews.jp/img/archives/imp/and_177640.jpg
This should be even easier for the 'big hands' people to do.
chickdigger802
Banned
I'm confused. 3ds and comfort?
Nintendo hasnt made a comfortable handheld since the original gba.
There is a reason why controllers don't look like a brick like the nes controller.
And yeah default controls suck. But after I maxed out all the sensitivities , it controls pretty well.
Nintendo hasnt made a comfortable handheld since the original gba.
There is a reason why controllers don't look like a brick like the nes controller.
And yeah default controls suck. But after I maxed out all the sensitivities , it controls pretty well.
Damon Bennet
Member
love it with the circle pad for better grip
Um. Okay?
I think?
lol.
Have fun being the grammar police on sites where many people don't bother, don't care, or might not speak English as a first language.
olimpia84
Member
Controls are far from perfect in this game but if you remain patient they eventually become second nature. I was one of the most fervent supporters of "dual analogs" in this game but even if Nintendo patches the game and offers that option I don't think I'll go back to use it. Stylus works fine with me now and it's obvious that the game's mechanics are completely based in that scheme.However more options for controls never hurt and with the CPP out there they should have added dual analog controls from the get go imo.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I'm pretty sure his point is you're not really going to be able to use the stand in many places where the 3DS portability pays off.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I don't use the stand, for whatever it's worth.
I did the first day, haven't since.
I did the first day, haven't since.
I use the stand when I'm at my desk. And even then when shit gets real in the game I end up picking the whole thing up, stand and all, anyway.