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[lednerg]

Since the topic has surfaced again.

The thing with the bird demo is there were 2 versions of it. The Sizzle Reel version and the show floor version. The show floor version was much more detailed in everything from the feathers on the bird to the overall environment.

This page from last June showed some of the differences between the two. The best footage of the show floor version is here. I wish they weren't so adamant about keeping the Wii U pad on camera at the same time as the TV. You can hear a Nintendo guy at the end of the clip giving him grief about it.

 

[bgassassin]

Now that the posting rotation has made its way back to the bird demo I get to post my favorite scene.

 

[BurntPork]

what would people think of nintendo releasing two pricing options for the WiiU?

Standard upfront

$349 1 tablet one wiimote+ nunchuck 1 pack in game 2 downloads/free software apps. free online.
$99 extra tablet

contract

$99 plus $15 a month 24 months 2 tablets 1 pack in game one wiimote+nunchuck 2 downloads/apps and free online.

How would this affect the perception of the console by sonsumers seeing as its a new console with a new option for a pricing structure. big department chains already do this in aome countries with payment plans but what about an official one?

I don't like the idea myself but is it a viable option for those who are price sensitive? if a console gets banned you can pay a fee to get it unbanned. $99 would be a good fee but all your stats get reset to 0 and you are forced to use a new username and contacts list. this might mitigate piracy and alleviate having to pay a termination fee which would be about the same amount as the fine plus what is left of the contract.

Wait, you mean I can get another bill on top of having to buy $60 games? SIGN ME UP!

Also, at this point, I'm pretty sure it'll only support one DRC.

Now that the posting rotation has made its way back to the bird demo I get to post my favorite scene.

I really don't think those reflections can be done on current consoles.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Because it was discussed and examined in detail a year ago and determined to be difficult if not impossible to achieve on current gen systems. I have no idea which thread one would start looking in, but it's been done. We don't have all the details memorized.

I see. Save for the 2 point of views, in general effects displayed in the video i saw are in order of DX9 generation hardware. So it looks like a matter of what people choose to believe.

But of course it seems the WiiU will be DX10 capable.

 

[rhoq]

Now that the posting rotation has made its way back to the bird demo I get to post my favorite scene.

I know it won't happen, but I would love for Nintendo to open the Wii U portion of their E3 presentation with the bird demo again, but this time updated to the system's full potential and I also want it included, as a pack-in or free downloadable title, when the console launches.

 

[EatChildren]

I really don't think those reflections can be done on current consoles.

Like most video games, it's all simulated with shaders, and trickery, rather than legitimately life-realistic reflections. Moving wet surface shaders have been done many times before, as have shimmering light reflections. You see it a lot in games that have indoor pools and stuff.

 

[DragonSworne]

I see. Save for the 2 point of views, in general effects displayed in the video i saw are in order of DX9 generation hardware. So it looks like a matter of what people choose to believe.

But of course it seems the WiiU will be DX10 capable.

Really? WiiU is DX11

 

[rhoq]

what would people think of nintendo releasing two pricing options for the WiiU?

Standard upfront

$349 1 tablet one wiimote+ nunchuck 1 pack in game 2 downloads/free software apps. free online.
$99 extra tablet

contract

$99 plus $15 a month 24 months 2 tablets 1 pack in game one wiimote+nunchuck 2 downloads/apps and free online.

How would this affect the perception of the console by sonsumers seeing as its a new console with a new option for a pricing structure. big department chains already do this in aome countries with payment plans but what about an official one?

I don't like the idea myself but is it a viable option for those who are price sensitive? if a console gets banned you can pay a fee to get it unbanned. $99 would be a good fee but all your stats get reset to 0 and you are forced to use a new username and contacts list. this might mitigate piracy and alleviate having to pay a termination fee which would be about the same amount as the fine plus what is left of the contract.

Unless the Wii U is more powerful than the PS3 and XBox 360, and I mean more than current rumors suggest, $349 - might be too much. Yes, I know the "tablet" controller is a large expense, but I don't care. Sell it at a loss. After the 3DS, Nintendo can't afford another launch price fiasco. Given the state of the economy, I really hope Nintendo doesn't set the MSRP higher than $299.

I don't see the "contract" option happening, unless it turns out to be a success for Microsoft and Sony follow-suit with the PS3. Nintendo then may feel pressured to explore the option for themselves.

 

[bgassassin]

I see. Save for the 2 point of views, in general effects displayed in the video i saw are in order of DX9 generation hardware. So it looks like a matter of what people choose to believe.

But of course it seems the WiiU will be DX10 capable.

Nah. It's way more likely to be DX11-capable than DX10.1 level.

 

[BurntPork]

Like most video games, it's all simulated with shaders, and trickery, rather than legitimately life-realistic reflections. Moving wet surface shaders have been done many times before, as have shimmering light reflections. You see it a lot in games that have indoor pools and stuff.

I've never seen it done that well. (Not counting Samaritan, obviously.)

 

[EatChildren]

I've never seen it done that well. (Not counting Samaritan, obviously.)

It does look very nice. But yeah, games have been using similar effects for a long time. Off the top of my head, Gears was using a shader to simulate rain on surfaces, and both Battlefield 3 and The Witcher 2 use the reflection shader for indoor watery areas. I figure Uncharted made use of the effects as well.

 

[GhostTrick]

I've never seen it done that well. (Not counting Samaritan, obviously.)

Source engine games
They do it really well.

 

[Portugeezer]

Do you guys think Nintendo would be willing to take a loss for early Wii U sales?

 

[GhostTrick]

Do you guys think Nintendo would be interested in taking a loss for early Wii U sales?

It depends. If they can't achieve a price target between 250$-299$, I think they'll have to take a loss.

 

[BurntPork]

It does look very nice. But yeah, games have been using similar effects for a long time. Off the top of my head, Gears was using a shader to simulate rain on surfaces, and both Battlefield 3 and The Witcher 2 use the reflection shader for indoor watery areas. I figure Uncharted made use of the effects as well.

Source engine games
They do it really well.

CAN'T YOU LET ME LIVE IN MY DELUSION!?

I wonder if that alleged CryEngine demo will ever be shown to the public.

 

[blu]

Yeah, Halo 3 used it for the water, didn't it?

Beats me, I've never played it. But from the look of YT videos, Reach seems to be using water-surface-effects vertex textures, which might or might not be used in conjunction with tessellation.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Really? WiiU is DX11

Interesting. So is the GPU class/generation already confirmed?

Nah. It's way more likely to be DX11-capable than DX10.1 level.

Hi bg. We know this from?

I've never seen it done that well. (Not counting Samaritan, obviously.)

The effects of the bird demo are in the realm of this generation of consoles. Regrading the "how well part" remember this is a polygonal demo after all, the whole of the machine resources are dedicated just to the renderer, leaving aside all of the other parts that integrate a game.

 

[tkscz]

Nah. It's way more likely to be DX11-capable than DX10.1 level.

I honestly believe it'll use OpenGL 3.3 (which uses OpenGL 4.0 shaders on weaker hardware). Either that on be the first thing to use OpenGL ES 3, which again, uses OpenGL 4.0 shaders on weaker hardware (Like GL ES 1.1 uses part of DX9 level shaders on weaker hardware), but is made better for embedded hardware.

 

[EatChildren]

Beats me, I've never played it. But from the look of YT videos, Reach seems to be using water-surface-effects vertex textures, which might or might not be used in conjunction with tessellation.

Neither, no Xbox 360 on my end, but I do remember Bungie mentioning such things.

 

[bgassassin]

Hi bg. We know this from?

The GPU wasn't completed till late Dec./early Jan. The person who told me that, and summarizing his info, back in Dec. also said that now (past tense) that the GPU is near completion it was looking "more 2012". So I reiterate that was given to me in 2011.

*hands out complimentary salt packets with this information*

I honestly believe it'll use OpenGL 3.3 (which uses OpenGL 4.0 shaders on weaker hardware). Either that on be the first thing to use OpenGL ES 3, which again, uses OpenGL 4.0 shaders on weaker hardware (Like GL ES 1.1 uses part of DX9 level shaders on weaker hardware), but is made better for embedded hardware.

It definitely won't be DX-based. That's why "capable" was used.

 

[GhostTrick]

The GPU wasn't completed till late Dec./early Jan. The person who told me that, and summarizing his info, back in Dec. also said that now (past tense) that the GPU is near completion it was looking "more 2012". So I reiterate that was given to me in 2011.

*hands out complimentary salt packets with this information*



It definitely won't be DX-based. That's why "capable" was used.

"more 2012" but more like which GPU ?
2012 GPU can mean HD 7350, HD 7570, HD 7770 or HD 7870.

 

[bgassassin]

"more 2012" but more like which GPU ?
2012 GPU can mean HD 7350, HD 7570, HD 7770 or HD 7870.

Well anything that's not a GCN is definitely not going to fall under that category. Plus I wouldn't get too hung up on specific models.

For all we know Wii U's GPU could be a VLIW5-type of architecture using the ALUs from GCN.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Neither, no Xbox 360 on my end, but I do remember Bungie mentioning such things.

Viva Piñata is a game that uses Tesselation on the 360 for terrain rendering.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

stop putting my hopes up BG

I am sad at Sony's news this morning :|
shape up Sony

 

[EVIL]

I really don't think those reflections can be done on current consoles.

you can fake the rain shimmer on the bird real easy, just add a subtle light that projects such an animating texture and direct it onto the bird.

 

[wsippel]

"more 2012" but more like which GPU ?
2012 GPU can mean HD 7350, HD 7570, HD 7770 or HD 7870.

It's custom and not based on any off-the-shelf AMD GPU. At least according to AMD.

That's just me speculating, but I assume AMD used the most recent GPU they had when they got the contract as a starting point, which would be the R700 line, then spent more than two years redesigning and replacing most of the chip. The GPU doesn't need to be compatible with anything or follow any standards, so they could do things very differently. And they probably did.

 

[GhostTrick]

Well anything that's not a GCN is definitely not going to fall under that category. Plus I wouldn't get too hung up on specific models.

For all we know Wii U's GPU could be a VLIW5-type of architecture using the ALUs from GCN.

And in terms of raw power ?

 

[Krev]

I am sad at Sony's news this morning :|
shape up Sony

Unfortunately for Sony, Hirai is not a Steve Jobs level genius.

 

[Mr. MondayNight]

stop putting my hopes up BG

I am sad at Sony's news this morning :|
shape up Sony

What Sony news?

 

[AceBandage]

And in terms of raw power ?

That's up to what Nintendo is shooting for, but it'll be far more capable than what we have on consoles now.

 

[lednerg]

At the very least, the additional RAM is going to allow for a pretty significant boost in texture detail all around. That goes for regular bitmaps as well as light maps and reflections. So even if a port house didn't feel like digging into the hardware all that much, they should still be able to achieve a noticeable improvement.

Spoiler

That's in theory, of course. Vigil doesn't seem to want to make the Wii U version of DS2 look better, despite having the extra RAM for it. They did cite their budget as being a factor, but I wonder why that would keep them from using PC textures at the very least.

 

[Metroid Hunter]

Unfortunately for Sony, Hirai is not a Steve Jobs level genius.

You don't need to be a Jobs to turn a company around. Give Kaz a chance.

 

[Krev]

What Sony news?

Their stocks hit a 31 year low.

You don't need to be a Jobs to turn a company around. Give Kaz a chance.

You need to be pretty damn sharp to turn around a company as fubar as Sony.

 

[DragonSworne]

At the very least, the additional RAM is going to allow for a pretty significant boost in texture detail all around. That goes for regular bitmaps as well as light maps and reflections. So even if a port house didn't feel like digging into the hardware all that much, they should still be able to achieve a noticeable improvement.

Spoiler

That's in theory, of course. Vigil doesn't seem to want to make the Wii U version of DS2 look better, despite having the extra RAM for it. They did cite their budget as being a factor, but I wonder why that would keep them from using PC textures at the very least.

They could be lying to avoid loss of sales from current gen customers.

I'm debating if I should wait or not for the WiiU version, and if I knew the game would look better, the decision to wait would be easy.

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

Looking at NPD data tonight, and I have to wonder how long MS and Sony are going to give Nintendo "alone" on the market with the U. More and more, folks seem bored of this generation, even though, to me, it seems more like a "we-want-more-new-game-releases" thing rather than a "we-need-more-polygons" thing. Nintendo could snag some on-the-fence buyers if the others decide to wait.

I read here and there that one or both of the others are looking at 2014. Seems like a long time. And giving the U two holiday seasons alone? Insane!

I've heard the same thing and even added it to my list back in February I think.
I was told that PS3 will be out by end of 2013, but the next Xbox might slip into 2014.

I'm not sure what would cause neXbox to slip into 2014, but weren't there rumors of them scrapping previous plans to chase more Power (probably with Epic whispering in their ear)?

 

[Nibel]

 

[BurntPork]

Well anything that's not a GCN is definitely not going to fall under that category. Plus I wouldn't get too hung up on specific models.

For all we know Wii U's GPU could be a VLIW5-type of architecture using the ALUs from GCN.

Well, that would certainly be something devs would need to learn to work with, which would explain why devs can't agree abut the power. That and the CPU, of course.

Their stocks hit a 31 year low.

You need to be pretty damn sharp to turn around a company as fubar as Sony.

Well, Nintendo is back to the GameCube era and falling fast.

Edit: http://quote.morningstar.com/Stock/s.aspx?t=XNYS:SNE
http://quote.morningstar.com/Stock/s.aspx?t=NTDOY ;

 

[DaSorcerer7]

Well, that would certainly be something devs would need to learn to work with, which would explain why devs can't agree abut the power. That and the CPU, of course.



Well, Nintendo is back to the GameCube era and falling fast.

Edit: http://quote.morningstar.com/Stock/s.aspx?t=XNYS:SNE
http://quote.morningstar.com/Stock/s.aspx?t=NTDOY ;

Dude, seriously..

 

[Portugeezer]

I can't tell if people are just trolling at times.

 

[GameplayWhore]

Oh yeah, i aslo discovered you can "pop" the bubbles in the background on the wii homebrew channel using the hand pointer. Thought that was neat.

WHAT??

Why isn't this in the "blow your mind" thread!? Gonna have to break out the dustmop when I get home from work so I can check this out.

isn't that kinda borderline portbegging

Haven't you noticed that this thread is pretty much the NeoGAF Portbeg Honeypot?

Well, Nintendo is back to the GameCube era and falling fast.

Edit: http://quote.morningstar.com/Stock/s.aspx?t=XNYS:SNE
http://quote.morningstar.com/Stock/s.aspx?t=NTDOY ;

Mmf, I keep forgetting to try to pick up a little Nintendoy. I have no idea what my investment username/password is anymore. I sort of stopped playing with the market after the company I used got eaten up by a giant bank and the per-transaction rate went from ~$8 to ~$20.

 

[Dicer]

I can't tell is people are just trolling at times.

I just assume everyone is...

:/

 

[RedSwirl]

At the very least, the additional RAM is going to allow for a pretty significant boost in texture detail all around. That goes for regular bitmaps as well as light maps and reflections. So even if a port house didn't feel like digging into the hardware all that much, they should still be able to achieve a noticeable improvement.

Spoiler

That's in theory, of course. Vigil doesn't seem to want to make the Wii U version of DS2 look better, despite having the extra RAM for it. They did cite their budget as being a factor, but I wonder why that would keep them from using PC textures at the very least.

Sega has already confirmed this very thing with Aliens: Colonial Marines. I think it's gonna depend on whether or not they're developing a PC version that will already have higher quality textures and effects. Call of Duty for instance might fit under this category.

 

[Franchuzas87]

Lol.

I swear that minutes before the beginning of the conference I'll put this music out loud on my computer.

- 25 Days Remain -

 

[jacksrb]

Ha! Awesome!

E3 is looming indeed

 

[BurntPork]

Dude, seriously..

What? It's true. They hit an 8 year low. (At least that's what someone in the NPD thread said.) That means pre-DS.

 

[GameplayWhore]

http://i.imgur.com/earththreateningtodestroythemoon.jpg

This puts everything into a much better perspective. People always talk about how the moon is going to destroy a small town, but nobody ever thinks of the poor mooninites whose entire world is about to be shattered into dust. D:

 

[axisofweevils]

Hi everyone!
It's good to be back.
Did I miss anything?
I'm going to tread very carefully from now on.

 

[Dreamwriter]

With all these "power" discussions, I think it's important to remind people that system power means almost nothing for 99% of games. It is extremely expensive to take full advantage of high power, because it takes a long time / a lot of people to do modeling, animating, and lighting at high detail. Money that most publishers aren't willing to pay. This is why every XBox 360 game doesn't look as good as Gears of War, why every PS3 game doesn't look as good as Uncharted. It's also why Square says they weren't going to make a FF7 remake looking like the PS3 demo, they said a full game at that quality was going to need a team of 300 people working for 5 years (the demo was able to use some models made for the CGI movie they were working on at the time). If the Wii-U was capable of doing Samaritan in real time, then some AAA games will be purely amazing...but most games won't look any better than current-gen games, except possibly in terms of framerate/resolution.

 

[GameplayWhore]

Hi everyone!
It's good to be back.
Did I miss anything?
I'm going to tread very carefully from now on.

You can check out your baseball stats while watching (or playing, it was a bit vague about that) the game.

Erm, also the system is seemingly getting Black Ops 2, Bit.Trip Runner 2, Avengers: Battle for Earth, Farsight's Pinball Arcade, Cloudberry Kingdom, something from Reflections, possibly FFXIV, and maybe Tales of Somethingia. Japan's Consumer Affairs Agency is launching an investigation which may end in the blocking of certain types of forced microtransaction. Nintendo has a rumble pack patent for the Balance Board. Final dev kits were apparently delayed a month with respect to getting to the general third party dev audience. They reportedly reflect a single-digit increase in fps on some engines and have a visibly different chassis compared to different models.

Nintendo's gyro manufacturer lists "3Q12" release for the Wii U. No confirmation of whose 3Q12.

We got the full floor plans for E3. Somebody somewhere claimed Nintendo was definitely getting Unreal Engine 4, and somebody somewhere said the opposite.

Lots of patent diagrams, including a block diagram of the Wii U Controller.

Erm… there's an IR emitter on the front of the DRC.

Retro's definitely making Star Fox. Except they're not, and it's definitely Zelda. In other news, Retro is only making a totally new IP.

Nintendo has taken further steps to secure the "Wii U" trademark.

The thumbsticks are clickable.


Also, you guys are ruining my Memorial to the Lost by constantly coming back from the e-grave. Stop it!

 

[Skiesofwonder]

Hi everyone!
It's good to be back.
Did I miss anything?
I'm going to tread very carefully from now on.

Heh, glad to have you back axis. You're back just in time for the start of another cycle. :lol

I missed most of last night (watched Avengers for the second time!) but what are the chances of a Platinum developed Nintendo franchise actually happening? Does Sakurai "sneaking" in mean anything, and if so is Star Fox the most likely?

Personally I think a Star Fox developed by Platinum would potentially be the greatest announcement of E3. I would welcome on-foot sections with open arms from them.

Edit: andddddddddd I'm at the bottom of the page...