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Halo 4 Multiplayer Media (Spartan Ops & War Games)

S

StriKeVillain

Banned
Woorloog said:
Reminds you of Halo 2 EVEN with all the armor abilities, ability to choose starting weapons, and sprint?
Click to expand...

Yeah - it did. I didn't mean a frame for frame rebuild. The pace and action gave off a nostalgic vibe to me. Didn't get that with 3 or Reach.

Sound is great too, good thing I'm looking for a new subwoofer. :3
 
C

cluto

Member
NullPointer said:
Not too much no. Its just that the post you referred me to didn't clear the matter up.

I understand that if you don't design your maps to include armor ability usage you're doing it wrong.
Click to expand...

No wonder you're confused. We have completely different viewpoints on what makes Halo multiplayer great. You've probably played a lot of Reach and enjoyed your time with it. Reach is a good game, but it's a terrible Halo game. If you had sunk hundreds of hours into the first two games, it would be obvious how and why Reach defeats itself as a Halo game. That's rather vague, but it's very difficult and would take way too long to explain all the ways in which Reach/armor abilites/etc. break the gameplay and map design. I'll try to better explain the jetpack issue though.

Proper Halo map design should be based around the core Halo gameplay (run, shoot, melee, grenade, jump); in other words, the gameplay aspects that every player has access to in order to make the map balanced for every player. If the map designers have to change the way in which they design maps in order to accommodate for an armor ability, then it shouldn't be in the game. As stated by others in this thread, the jetpack "lets players bypass intended map movement paths and sight lines." That gives jetpack users a huge advantage. In order to fix this, the map designers would have to reevaluate their approach to map design; for example, maps would probably have to be way more vertical, closed off, and compartmentalized in order to keep jetpack users from having such a large tactical advantage. Anyone who played a lot of Halo 1 and 2 knows that compartmentalized maps are terrible Halo maps. Sword Base is a perfect example of a map that was designed with jetpacks in mind. Super compartmentalized, super vertical, super terrible Halo map. The maps that are actually great (Lockout, Midship, Hang 'em High, etc.) would be completely broken by the jetpack. Sight lines, height advantage/verticality, shortcut jumps, risk/reward power weapons -- these things that are integral to great Halo map design and gameplay don't matter when the jetpack is in play. The easier solution is to remove it.

That wasn't exactly concise, I guess, but hopefully that explained it better.
 
S

Sibylus

Banned
Oozer3993 said:
The Halo 3 Beta Carbine was glorious. I shed a tear when I played the final game and realized it was a shell of its former self. It was like Michael Jordan on the Wizards.
Click to expand...
There's just something sorely missed in a Covvie rifle that doesn't punctuate a bodyshot kill with the warmest and pinkest orgasm seen this side of the Pleiades.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Oh i get you cluto, but i think the difference here is that since Reach and Halo 4 are actually Halo games, maps shouldnt be designed strictly along the lines you propose.

Halo has changed, and proper map design must take AAs into account if they're to work rather than relying upon classical notions. That is to say that not all Halo players start the game with the same set of tools and abilities. I know, i miss it too.

Also, i dont think jetpacks provide their wearers with dramatic advantages. Do all the top players in AA playlists stick with jetpacks?
 
O

Oozer3993

Member
cluto said:
No wonder you're confused. We have completely different viewpoints on what makes Halo multiplayer great. You've probably played a lot of Reach and enjoyed your time with it. Reach is a good game, but it's a terrible Halo game. If you had sunk hundreds of hours into the first two games, it would be obvious how and why Reach defeats itself as a Halo game. That's rather vague, but it's very difficult and would take way too long to explain all the ways in which Reach/armor abilites/etc. break the gameplay and map design. I'll try to better explain the jetpack issue though.

Proper Halo map design should be based around the core Halo gameplay (run, shoot, melee, grenade, jump); in other words, the gameplay aspects that every player has access to in order to make the map balanced for every player. If the map designers have to change the way in which they design maps in order to accommodate for an armor ability, then it shouldn't be in the game. As stated by others in this thread, the jetpack "lets players bypass intended map movement paths and sight lines." That gives jetpack users a huge advantage. In order to fix this, the map designers would have to reevaluate their approach to map design; for example, maps would probably have to be way more vertical, closed off, and compartmentalized in order to keep jetpack users from having such a large tactical advantage. Anyone who played a lot of Halo 1 and 2 knows that compartmentalized maps are terrible Halo maps. Sword Base is a perfect example of a map that was designed with jetpacks in mind. Super compartmentalized, super vertical, super terrible Halo map. The maps that are actually great (Lockout, Midship, Hang 'em High, etc.) would be completely broken by the jetpack. Sight lines, height advantage/verticality, shortcut jumps, risk/reward power weapons -- these things that are integral to great Halo map design and gameplay don't matter when the jetpack is in play. The easier solution is to remove it.

That wasn't exactly concise, I guess, but hopefully that explained it better.
Click to expand...

I have played a lot of Halo multiplayer. I have over 4,000 Halo 2 matches under my belt alone. I could not disagree with you more.
 
P

-PXG-

Member
cluto said:
No wonder you're confused. We have completely different viewpoints on what makes Halo multiplayer great. You've probably played a lot of Reach and enjoyed your time with it. Reach is a good game, but it's a terrible Halo game. If you had sunk hundreds of hours into the first two games, it would be obvious how and why Reach defeats itself as a Halo game. That's rather vague, but it's very difficult and would take way too long to explain all the ways in which Reach/armor abilites/etc. break the gameplay and map design. I'll try to better explain the jetpack issue though.

Proper Halo map design should be based around the core Halo gameplay (run, shoot, melee, grenade, jump); in other words, the gameplay aspects that every player has access to in order to make the map balanced for every player. If the map designers have to change the way in which they design maps in order to accommodate for an armor ability, then it shouldn't be in the game. As stated by others in this thread, the jetpack "lets players bypass intended map movement paths and sight lines." That gives jetpack users a huge advantage. In order to fix this, the map designers would have to reevaluate their approach to map design; for example, maps would probably have to be way more vertical, closed off, and compartmentalized in order to keep jetpack users from having such a large tactical advantage. Anyone who played a lot of Halo 1 and 2 knows that compartmentalized maps are terrible Halo maps. Sword Base is a perfect example of a map that was designed with jetpacks in mind. Super compartmentalized, super vertical, super terrible Halo map. The maps that are actually great (Lockout, Midship, Hang 'em High, etc.) would be completely broken by the jetpack. Sight lines, height advantage/verticality, shortcut jumps, risk/reward power weapons -- these things that are integral to great Halo map design and gameplay don't matter when the jetpack is in play. The easier solution is to remove it.

That wasn't exactly concise, I guess, but hopefully that explained it better.
Click to expand...

Don't worry. I agree with you.

Makes perfect sense.
 
H

Havok

Member
cluto said:
You guys think Halo Reach shipped with good maps?
Click to expand...
A few, yeah. But what made most Reach maps bad wasn't that they did or didn't have armor abilities in mind when they designed them, they were just crappy on their own merit.

Would have been happier without a jetpack, but I think the jetpack can work without upsetting people as long as it is entirely mobility-oriented, disallowing the user from shooting or throwing grenades in the same way that Sprint does. Sitting ducks shouldn't shoot back or crap out a grenade as they die. I seriously doubt that's what the Halo 4 variant does, but it'd be nice. Glad camo loadouts bit the dust much more.
 
W

Woorloog

Banned
cluto said:
You guys think Halo Reach shipped with good maps?
Click to expand...

Well, Forge World's idea was awesome, and some good has come from it (Dat MLG Sanctuary).
Also, Powerhouse is pretty good. For a Reach map. Hell, it is a lot better than some Halo 3 launch maps (Snowbound, ugh).
But overall, no, the maps weren't good. Not campaign, not Firefight, not MP.
 
D

Dance Inferno

Unconfirmed Member
Spartan Ops is possibly the most innovative thing to happen to multiplayer gaming since Return to Castle Wolfenstein popularized class-based warfare. Super excited.

Gotta say, I have never been half as excited for a Bungie Halo as I am for this game.
 
L

Lumination

'enry 'ollins
cluto said:
No wonder you're confused. We have completely different viewpoints on what makes Halo multiplayer great. You've probably played a lot of Reach and enjoyed your time with it. Reach is a good game, but it's a terrible Halo game. If you had sunk hundreds of hours into the first two games, it would be obvious how and why Reach defeats itself as a Halo game. That's rather vague, but it's very difficult and would take way too long to explain all the ways in which Reach/armor abilites/etc. break the gameplay and map design. I'll try to better explain the jetpack issue though.

Proper Halo map design should be based around the core Halo gameplay (run, shoot, melee, grenade, jump); in other words, the gameplay aspects that every player has access to in order to make the map balanced for every player. If the map designers have to change the way in which they design maps in order to accommodate for an armor ability, then it shouldn't be in the game. As stated by others in this thread, the jetpack "lets players bypass intended map movement paths and sight lines." That gives jetpack users a huge advantage. In order to fix this, the map designers would have to reevaluate their approach to map design; for example, maps would probably have to be way more vertical, closed off, and compartmentalized in order to keep jetpack users from having such a large tactical advantage. Anyone who played a lot of Halo 1 and 2 knows that compartmentalized maps are terrible Halo maps. Sword Base is a perfect example of a map that was designed with jetpacks in mind. Super compartmentalized, super vertical, super terrible Halo map. The maps that are actually great (Lockout, Midship, Hang 'em High, etc.) would be completely broken by the jetpack. Sight lines, height advantage/verticality, shortcut jumps, risk/reward power weapons -- these things that are integral to great Halo map design and gameplay don't matter when the jetpack is in play. The easier solution is to remove it.

That wasn't exactly concise, I guess, but hopefully that explained it better.
Click to expand...
This is a big fundamental problem with jetpack. Completely breaks good maps. Also, in H4, you don't have to trade sprint for jetpack. You get both.

Oozer3993 said:
I have played a lot of Halo multiplayer. I have over 4,000 Halo 2 matches under my belt alone. I could not disagree with you more.
Click to expand...
Why?

cluto said:
You guys think Halo Reach shipped with good maps?
Click to expand...
Definitely not. The best was probably Powerhouse. (Still iffy.) There just wasn't a Guardian, Lockout, or Pit-quality map. I do like Uncaged, but jetpack breaks that beyond belief.
 
S

Sibylus

Banned
cluto said:
No wonder you're confused. We have completely different viewpoints on what makes Halo multiplayer great. You've probably played a lot of Reach and enjoyed your time with it. Reach is a good game, but it's a terrible Halo game. If you had sunk hundreds of hours into the first two games, it would be obvious how and why Reach defeats itself as a Halo game. That's rather vague, but it's very difficult and would take way too long to explain all the ways in which Reach/armor abilites/etc. break the gameplay and map design. I'll try to better explain the jetpack issue though.

Proper Halo map design should be based around the core Halo gameplay (run, shoot, melee, grenade, jump); in other words, the gameplay aspects that every player has access to in order to make the map balanced for every player. If the map designers have to change the way in which they design maps in order to accommodate for an armor ability, then it shouldn't be in the game. As stated by others in this thread, the jetpack "lets players bypass intended map movement paths and sight lines." That gives jetpack users a huge advantage. In order to fix this, the map designers would have to reevaluate their approach to map design; for example, maps would probably have to be way more vertical, closed off, and compartmentalized in order to keep jetpack users from having such a large tactical advantage. Anyone who played a lot of Halo 1 and 2 knows that compartmentalized maps are terrible Halo maps. Sword Base is a perfect example of a map that was designed with jetpacks in mind. Super compartmentalized, super vertical, super terrible Halo map. The maps that are actually great (Lockout, Midship, Hang 'em High, etc.) would be completely broken by the jetpack. Sight lines, height advantage/verticality, shortcut jumps, risk/reward power weapons -- these things that are integral to great Halo map design and gameplay don't matter when the jetpack is in play. The easier solution is to remove it.

That wasn't exactly concise, I guess, but hopefully that explained it better.
Click to expand...
I disagree with the general thrust of this post, but the bolded is something I strenuously disagree with. That's a recipe for franchise and design stagnation if I've ever seen one. To say map design is immutable and unbending, it's to doom the series to forever parrot and revisit old concepts and old ideas merely for the sake of those things working in their respective games (and once you're at that stage, you're better off just making DLC for games that have since been released).

And that isn't to say that all scales (from smaller indoor spaces to sprawling BTB maps) must embrace each and every piece of the sandbox as Reach did, it tried to make nigh every peg fit every other hole. Not all pieces are made to fit all holes. Scorpions don't fit into Hang 'em High. Banshees don't fit into Longest (literally). Elephants don't fit into Valhalla. Shotguns, Sniper Rifles, and Rocket Launchers all have their own spaces where they're most appropriate. Armor Abilities are no different in this regard, they're great in their respective zones and downright terrible otherwise. And that's perfectly fine. There's ample room for 343 to experiment with play mechanics and still pay homage to the sort of spaces we've come to expect of past Halo titles. All or nothing is horseshit.

cluto said:
You guys think Halo Reach shipped with good maps?
Click to expand...
Certainly do, though my taste is more on the BTB side of things (and has been ever since Halo 1).
 
T

too much eslim

Member
How come i looked at the jet packers as easy kills. Eh too each their own. i don't know if the jet pack and thruster pack are two different things, but the thrusters is definitely the AA most people will use. It has so many benefits it could be game breaking.
 
LAUGHTREY

LAUGHTREY

Modesty becomes a woman
They very quietly have the perks system on the 343 page.


COD in my Halo, probably not even gonna buy this one.
 
M

matt05891

Member
too much eslim said:
How come i looked at the jet packers as easy kills. Eh too each their own. i don't know if the jet pack and thruster pack are two different things, but the thrusters is definitely the AA most people will use. It has so many benefits it could be game breaking.
Click to expand...

I honestly don't see how it could be game breaking compared to what we had to deal with in Reach...
 
T

too much eslim

Member
matt05891 said:
I honestly don't see how it could be game breaking compared to what we had to deal with in Reach...
Click to expand...

you can sprint then thrust with the sword to get a lunging sword kill. BR and DMR battles will now consist of strafe, shoot, thrust left(right), shoot, strafe, thrust right(left) and so on. It will make things more intense imo if two people have it, but if one does and the other doesn't the one without will be complaining.
 
M

matt05891

Member
too much eslim said:
you can sprint then thrust with the sword to get a lunging sword kill. BR and DMR battles will now consist of strafe, shoot, thrust left(right), shoot, strafe, thrust right(left) and so on. It will make things more intense imo if two people have it, but if one does and the other doesn't the one without will be complaining.
Click to expand...

Yes or the person with thrust may be able to easily overcompensate distances considering it's a one use then recharge. I just don't see with how little information we have regarding it that it could already be seen as overpowered, at least to me I feel I need more information or to play it first to come to that conclusion. Especially with the return of the jetpack.
 
T

too much eslim

Member
matt05891 said:
Yes or the person with thrust may be able to easily overcompensate distances considering it's a one use then recharge. I just don't see with how little information we have regarding it that it could already be seen as overpowered, at least to me I feel I need more information or to play it first to come to that conclusion. Especially with the return of the jetpack.
Click to expand...

just an assumption. Either way it doesn't bother me. Just saying it is something to look out for.
 
J

JdFoX187

Banned
Havok said:
A few, yeah. But what made most Reach maps bad wasn't that they did or didn't have armor abilities in mind when they designed them, they were just crappy on their own merit.

Would have been happier without a jetpack, but I think the jetpack can work without upsetting people as long as it is entirely mobility-oriented, disallowing the user from shooting or throwing grenades in the same way that Sprint does. Sitting ducks shouldn't shoot back or crap out a grenade as they die. I seriously doubt that's what the Halo 4 variant does, but it'd be nice. Glad camo loadouts bit the dust much more.
Click to expand...

This was the main issue I had with jetpacks. You start getting shot from somewhere you can't see. You look up and there he is flying above you. He's already got one to two shots on you, so you either have to take cover or attempt to fire back and will probably die. Not to mention you cannot headshot a jetpack user when he's directly above you. He can also drop grenades straight down and rain death from above. At the very least, if they're going to allow jetpacks and allow the person using said ability to fire their weapon, it should be horribly inaccurate.
 
Vire

Vire

Member
Man they must have pulled some all nighters to get it to where it is now. I'm going back to the March Vidoc and these levels look so much better here.

Well fucking done.
 
M

Man

Member
Does Spartan Ops include some sort of loot system / elite-enemies?
I thought the 'dungeon crawling' aspect of Resistance 2 was absolutely brilliant.
 
S

Silly.Mikey

Banned
We can find something wrong with every god damn ability in the game. But since those are the ones those people don't like, those are the ones they focus on. Hell, some people actually hate sprinting of all things. Its not fair when the guy can run away....

Flying is flying

Invisible is invisible

Deal with it
 
H

Havok

Member
Silly.Mikey said:
We can find something wrong with every god damn ability in the game. But since those are the ones those people don't like, those are the ones they focus on. Hell, some people actually hate sprinting of all things. Its not fair when the guy can run away....

Flying is flying

Invisible is invisible

Deal with it
Click to expand...
Yep, no criticism should ever be leveled at anything ever, just deal with it. Nothing can ever be tweaked to be made more balanced, it exists in one state for all of eternity.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Vire said:
Wonder if there will be more than just those guys as the Prometheans enemy type.

Also thruster pack shot:

2820915-web_preview.png
Click to expand...
THIS IS ALL I WILL DO IN THIS GAME

Fucking awesome.

Also, I just know 343 has some Forerunner vehicles up their sleeve that they'll blow our minds with. Hope they're not restrained to set pieces in Campaign though.
 
S

Silly.Mikey

Banned
Havok said:
Yep, no criticism should ever be leveled at anything ever, just deal with it. Nothing can ever be tweaked to be made more balanced, it exists in one state for all of eternity.
Click to expand...

Tweaked ive got zero problems with, but when arguments like "the guy is above me so its no fair" or "i should be able to see the invisible guy on my radar", thats when i stop listening.

If some of the people in here would design a game, it would be 8 guys spawning on a completely empty perfectly square map, 4 people on each side facing each other perfectly with the same one gun like a mexican standoff, match starts, everyone dies. Game would last about 13 seconds, zero fun but oh, its PERFECTLY balanced.
 
CreateNowSleepLater

CreateNowSleepLater

Member
Chief's hud is too distracting. Need to tone it down. Don't need that blueish hue glowing all over everything, it actually detracts for the game. I don't mind Cortana coming in once in a while, doesnt look like it happens every time she talks.
 
D

def sim

Member
It still bugs me out that a Halo game's graphics are impressive. So much so that it looks like it could be the best looking game on 360.

Good voodoo at 343i.
 
H

Homeboyd

Member
enzo_gt said:
Also, I just know 343 has some Forerunner vehicles up their sleeve that they'll blow our minds with. Hope they're not restrained to set pieces in Campaign though.
Click to expand...
I'm hoping for a land/air hybrid that you can drive around and take off at will. Would be the tits.
 
R

RebornYeti

Member
enzo_gt said:
THIS IS ALL I WILL DO IN THIS GAME

Fucking awesome.

Also, I just know 343 has some Forerunner vehicles up their sleeve that they'll blow our minds with. Hope they're not restrained to set pieces in Campaign though.
Click to expand...

Thinking about Forerunner vehicles gets me all giddy. Oh the possibilities.
 
S

SCULLIBUNDO

Banned
Homeboyd said:
I'm hoping for a land/air hybrid that you can drive around and take off at will. Would be the tits.
Click to expand...

ZOMG.




Seriously though, just give us the fucking Pelican already.

They could start their HALO 5 E3 with a shot of the Pelican and will win the show for me.

It's been five fucking games now. Gimme dat dropship.
 
H

Havok

Member
Silly.Mikey said:
Tweaked ive got zero problems with, but when arguments like "the guy is above me so its no fair" or "i should be able to see the invisible guy on my radar", thats when i stop listening.

If some of the people in here would design a game, it would be 8 guys spawning on a completely empty perfectly square map, 4 people on each side facing each other perfectly with the same one gun like a mexican standoff, match starts, everyone dies. Game would last about 13 seconds, zero fun but oh, its PERFECTLY balanced.
Click to expand...
That is a drastic oversimplification that ignores the very detailed discussions that have gone on about how to balance abilities in a Halo game by the people you're so derisive towards. You can choose to ignore them, but I cannot take your opinions seriously when you refuse to acknowledge that people have legitimate criticism with these abilities like you've done in the discussions you've taken part in in the past, both in the OT and other Halo threads.
Scullibundo said:
ZOMG.

Seriously though, just give us the fucking Pelican already.

They could start their HALO 5 E3 with a shot of the Pelican and will win the show for me.

It's been five fucking games now. Gimme dat dropship.
Click to expand...
You can do it in Reach!
 
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