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Black Panther vs Batman: Armbars are banned to make it fair for Batman

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T

The Anti-Monitor

Banned
Dr. Strange at least made sense as super-invincible, because his enemies also were.

Black Panther is what happens when the rule Marvel applies to create new villains ("more of the same, but STRONGER AT EVERYTHING") affects a character too much. Black Panther does some genuinely cool shit every now and then, but for every Skrull Invasion of Wakanda you get a Silver Surfer or Mephisto fight.

Sure, Batman gets hit with the same whenever he's working with the Justice League, but it's easier to forgive him since he's not so Batgod on his own stories.
 
R

ReiGun

Member
Nesotenso said:
which someone should come in and change. This approach of making him the best at everything is stupid.
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How is he the best at everything? He isn't the smartest person in the world (in fact, there are seven people smarter than him). I pointed out two examples of characters who are better fighters than him. He had to cripple his nation in order to beat Doom in "Doomwar", an act that resulted in him abdicating his throne. Despite being intelligent, Panther has been shown to have a hard time adjusting when something he doesn't expect occurs (a big part of his dynamic with Agent Ross and Queen Divine Justice back in the day).

Panther is good. Definitely in the upper tier of Marvel's "badass normals". But certainly not the best at everything or perfect.


Tizoc said:
...and Daredevil is awesome, people just hating cuz he always gets the ladies-
e9zSP.jpg
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Spidey looks so pathetic.

The Anti-Monitor said:
Dr. Strange at least made sense as super-invincible, because his enemies also were.

Black Panther is what happens when the rule Marvel applies to create new villains ("more of the same, but STRONGER AT EVERYTHING") affects a character too much. Black Panther does some genuinely cool shit every now and then, but for every Skrull Invasion of Wakanda you get a Silver Surfer or Mephisto fight.

Sure, Batman gets hit with the same whenever he's working with the Justice League, but it's easier to forgive him since he's not so Batgod on his own stories.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
 
P

Parallax

best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
The Anti-Monitor said:
Dr. Strange at least made sense as super-invincible, because his enemies also were.

Black Panther is what happens when the rule Marvel applies to create new villains ("more of the same, but STRONGER AT EVERYTHING") affects a character too much. Black Panther does some genuinely cool shit every now and then, but for every Skrull Invasion of Wakanda you get a Silver Surfer or Mephisto fight.

Sure, Batman gets hit with the same whenever he's working with the Justice League, but it's easier to forgive him since he's not so Batgod on his own stories.
Click to expand...

the mephisto thing took tons of planning. its not like he woke up and decided he was gonna wreck mephistos stuff. he had all of wakanda monitoring him. it was a group effort on that one.

AdrianWerner said:
Umm...wat?
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street level characters.
 
S

Supermanisdead

Member
Deified Data said:
Possibly. They nerfed Dr. Strange to good result. Best bet is to see him cut off from Wakanda's resources and from Bast's influence, but both of those things have happened before and never seem to stick...
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Yeah, that would be great honestly. I actually really liked Black Panther: Man Without Fear/Most Dangerous Man Alive, even though the whole reasoning behind it was silly. Marvel seems so obsessed with making Wakanda work so that will probably never happen.
 
D

Deified Data

Banned
AdrianWerner said:
Umm...wat?
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He's a badass normal. The only super power he has is from partaking of the heart-shaped root, which puts him on a physical level with Captain America. Every other advantage he holds in a fight comes from his humanity. There are tons of characters who could beat BP. Just not Batman.
 
R

ReiGun

Member
AdrianWerner said:
Umm...wat?
Click to expand...

Compared to guys like Strange or Spidey, Panther is normal. His powers are basically being a really strong human and some enhanced senses (and not even Daredevil level enhanced). I don't think the heart shaped plant pushed him into superhuman tier. *shrug*

Parallax said:
the mephisto thing took tons of planning. its not like he woke up and decided he was gonna wreck mephistos stuff. he had all of wakanda monitoring him. it was a group effort on that one.
Click to expand...
Not only that, but the actual confrontation wasn't meant to show that Panther is "stronger" than Mephisto. It was meant to show that Panther wasn't afraid of him. The panels clearly showed that Panther was so physical threat to Mephisto (dude laughed off having his heart ripped out).
 
Z

Zeus Molecules

illegal immigrants are stealing our air
Affeinvasion said:
Both of Black Panther's parents are dead. You just don't hear about it because he doesn't cry like a bitch all the time.
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Pandaman said:
panther is prep time proof.

zAuHu.jpg
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BP by a mile. The biggest difference between the two characters right now is Batman is treated like a major property by DC and Marvel is going wayyyy out of their way not to use BP correctly. If you ever get a chance watch the BP cartoon that came out recently to see how boss he really is.
 
T

The Anti-Monitor

Banned
AdrianWerner said:
Umm...wat?
Click to expand...
TvTropes lingo.

Parallax said:
the mephisto thing took tons of planning. its not like he woke up and decided he was gonna wreck mephistos stuff. he had all of wakanda monitoring him. it was a group effort on that one.
Click to expand...
I dunno, whenever characters take on others who are way beyond their league I already roll the eyes a little, and it seemed like a conscious effort on making Black Panther be totally badass by ripping Mephisto's heart.

It's nowhere near as bad as Silver Surfer, though.
 
Wiktor

Wiktor

Member
ReiGun said:
Compared to guys like Strange or Spidey, Panther is normal. His powers are basically being a really strong human and some enhanced senses (and not even Daredevil level enhanced). I don't think the heart shaped plant pushed him into superhuman tier. *shrug*
Click to expand...

But he has numerous superhuman enchancements. He's not pure everyday human the way Punisher or Batman is.
 
D

Deified Data

Banned
Zeus Molecules said:
BP by a mile. The biggest difference between the two characters right now is Batman is treated like a major property by DC and Marvel is going wayyyy out of their way not to use BP correctly. If you ever get a chance watch the BP cartoon that came out recently to see how boss he really is.
Click to expand...

The BET miniseries?

It had a lot of things going for it, but I think it lost me when it decided to use Cap as a strawman for Western interventionism. Granted, he was supposed to be young and untrained at that point, but there's no way he should have been taken down as easily as he was. And I guess he was taken down by T'Chaka, and not the current BP, but still. Was expecting an epic grudge match, but it was a curb stomp.

AdrianWerner said:
But he has numerous superhuman enchancements. He's not pure everyday human the way Punisher or Batman is.
Click to expand...
This is true, but he's still pretty "normal" by Marvel standards. He has enchancements, but nothing that a normal human in peak physical condition wouldn't be able to do - i.e. Ozymandias from Watchmen.
 
R

ReiGun

Member
bangai-o said:
such a deep character. he dont care if his parents are dead. he dont care if YOUR parents are dead!
Click to expand...

He cares. He thinks about his father and wonders if he can live up to him pretty often. He just doesn't sit around and dwell on it because he has a country full of people who rely on him.

AdrianWerner said:
But he has numerous superhuman enchancements. He's not pure everyday human the way Punisher or Batman is.
Click to expand...

He has one enhancement, and it's not even that great. He could still be killed by anything that would kill either of those guys.


Deified Data said:
The BET miniseries?

It had a lot of things going for it, but I think it lost me when it decided to use Cap as a strawman for Western interventionism. Granted, he was supposed to be young and untrained at that point, but there's no way he should have been taken down as easily as he was. And I guess he was taken down by T'Chaka, and not the current BP, but still. Was expecting an epic grudge match, but it was a curb stomp.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I didn't like that part either. Especially since it didn't show how Panther and Cap eventually became friends (Cap was the first westerner the Wakandans ever trusted. They made his circular shield [assuming Hudlin didn't retcon that too]).
 
P

Parallax

best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
AdrianWerner said:
But he has numerous superhuman enchancements. He's not pure everyday human the way Punisher or Batman is.
Click to expand...

the punisher and batman arent even in the same class when it comes to human characters. bats has far more developed tech than the punisher has.
 
G

GhettoGamer

Member
Parallax said:
the mephisto thing took tons of planning. its not like he woke up and decided he was gonna wreck mephistos stuff. he had all of wakanda monitoring him. it was a group effort on that one.
Click to expand...

So many people ignore that, but the same people have no problem with Bats shooting a God with a gun.
 
S

Supermanisdead

Member
Zeus Molecules said:
BP by a mile. The biggest difference between the two characters right now is Batman is treated like a major property by DC and Marvel is going wayyyy out of their way not to use BP correctly. If you ever get a chance watch the BP cartoon that came out recently to see how boss he really is.
Click to expand...

You know that BP cartoon was based on Reggie Hudlin's Black Panther comic, the one that turned BP into a pariah among fans and he has never recovered from that horrendous bullshit.
 
P

Parallax

best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Supermanisdead said:
You know that BP cartoon was based on Reggie Hudlin's Black Panther comic, the one that turned BP into a pariah among fans and he has never recovered from that horrendous bullshit.
Click to expand...

its why i still havent had the inclination to watch it. fuck hudlin.
 
R

ReiGun

Member
Supermanisdead said:
You know that BP cartoon was based on Reggie Hudlin's Black Panther comic, the one that turned BP into a pariah among fans and he has never recovered from that horrendous bullshit.
Click to expand...

I liked it, which is the only thing making me even consider reading that run. But I'm putting it off, because even that special had hints of things I knew I'd hate in the long run (Storm romance, the Wakandans not sharing the friggin cure for cancer[the fuck? really?], the completely changed Klaw and the revamp to Panther's origin). Reading Kirby's run right now instead, which is damned hilarious.
 
Z

Zeus Molecules

illegal immigrants are stealing our air
Supermanisdead said:
You know that BP cartoon was based on Reggie Hudlin's Black Panther comic, the one that turned BP into a pariah among fans and he has never recovered from that horrendous bullshit.
Click to expand...

I read that run and let me make 2 points

1) compared to what has come after it now looks a whole lot better than it did when it came out. Hudlin's world tour after the storm marriage wasn't that bad for example.

2) the cartoon was not too heavily based on the comic because it was a mini series. So a lot of the worse parts and many weird (and controversial) parts of his run wee omitted due to the restraints of the mini series format. So no world of skrulls stuck in the 60's and other crap like that.

Also for the captain America meets BP there was a miniseries that expanded on that fight and showed how T'chakka's main concern was keeping his country out of WWII by avoiding all parties involved.
 
H

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
Batman can't even really keep one city on lock.

Black Panther rules the most advanced nation on the planet.

Advantage Panther.
 
B

Bleepey

Member
ReiGun said:
You know, for all the talk of BP and Moon Knight being Batman rips, I've always considered Daredevil to be Batman's Marvel analogue. Maybe this thread should have been Batman vs Daredevil.
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Oh do explain how Daredevil is Marvel's analogue?
 
J

JJD

Member
Batman.

The only thing that matters is popularity.

That's why he wins against supes and most super heroes/villians.

Most people would have to google Black Panther to know who he is.
 
S

Slayven

Member
JJD said:
Batman.

The only thing that matters is popularity.

That's why he wins against supes and most super heroes/villians.

Most people would have to google Black Panther to know who he is.
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Yeah Deathstroke and Bane out sell Batman everymonth.
 
C

Caja 117

Member
SoilBreak said:
armbar

n7ICv.jpg
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I love it when people take this one page from the comic book, instead on reading the complete chapter, this one page is in all over the net, people fail to realize that Silver surfer actually let himself get into that situation to get information out of Panther.

Black Panther is the Batman of Marvel comic, they are evenly matched, the difference is that Batman doesn't have superpowers and a Non existent alloy, if you take those super powered elements out of the fight Batman would stomp..
 
B

Byakuya769

Member
Pizarro said:
Batman because it's Christian Bale vs. Wesley Snipes
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What? No, it's Bale versus the dude from gotdayum Amnistad and Blood Diamond. (BET mini-series). But since he's too old, if a BP movie is done, it will clearly be Idris Elba who takes the lead.

Christian Bale versus Idris Elba. Come on.
 
R

ReiGun

Member
Bleepey said:
Oh do explain how Daredevil is Marvel's analogue?
Click to expand...

Urban protector of a fucked up area (Hell's kitchen:Gotham). "Horror" style imagery (Devil:Bat). Uses resources from public identity to help neighborhood in other ways (Matt Murdock is a lawyer:Bruce Wayne is a philanthropist). Origin stories involve great tragedy (Matt lost his sight and his father:Bruce lost his parents). Rouges include gangsters (Kingpin:Two-Face, Black Mask, the Falcone family, etc), an arch nemesis who constantly fucks them over (Joker:Bullseye), and even an ancient group of ninja killers (League of Assassins:The Hand).

Obviously, it's not one to one (Daredevil doesn't have Batman's gadgets or money, Batman doesn't have enhanced senses), but neither is Bats:panther or Bats:Moon Knight. But I personally think Batman has more in common DD than the other two (well, I'm not entire sure on Moon Knight. Don't know much about him).
 
J

JJD

Member
Caja 117 said:
I love it when people take this one page from the comic book, instead on reading the complete chapter, this one page is in all over the net, people fail to realize that Silver surfer actually let himself get into that situation to get information out of Panther.
Click to expand...

defeat12.jpg
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
See this is why I don't tend to like Marvel heroes. They all try to go for the "relate-able" appeal... and then become broken characters.

I find it hilarious because Superman feels less broken than say Thor or Wolverine, and yet people accuse him of being overpowered... even compared to Batman!
 
P

Parallax

best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Ookami-kun said:
See this is why I don't tend to like Marvel heroes. They all try to go for the "relate-able" appeal... and then become broken characters.

I find it hilarious because Superman feels less broken than say Thor or Wolverine, and yet people accuse him of being overpowered... even compared to Batman!
Click to expand...

whos broken?
 
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