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[WanderingWind]

It has its uses.

I honestly don't even want to know.

 

[Platy]

...can't really be Brad Pitt or [insert some dude who women consider hot, I'm totally behind on these sorts of things] without the same assist from the genetic lottery.

It really does suck for everybody.

Ok ... but give me 3 actress in the same body type as Jack Black, Zach Galifinafianakis or Danny DeVito

Or ONE actress with Feldman or Buscemi eyes

 

[freenudemacusers]

It has its uses.

I imagine it's a good "husband material" filter

 

[way more]

Why don't we just call this what it is, lookism.

That is an interesting idea. If only we had a member who was smart, nay, brave enough to expound on such a topic. Maybe one day such a member who yearns for the truth will appear to ask such questions.

 

[Trent Strong]

So what's the solution to this problem? Force people to use unattractive and overweight women as models and actresses? If companies did this, their clothing and other products wouldn't sell as well and their movies and TV shows would make less money.

 

[shadyspace]

So what's the solution to this problem? Force people to use unattractive and overweight women as models and actresses? If companies did this, their clothing and other products wouldn't sell as well and their movies and TV shows would make less money.

Nah bro everyone is beautiful

 

[freenudemacusers]

So what's the solution to this problem? Force people to use unattractive and overweight women as models and actresses? If companies did this, their clothing and other products wouldn't sell as well and their movies and TV shows would make less money.

It seems to be the MO of British television.

 

[Stet]

So what's the solution to this problem? Force people to use unattractive and overweight women as models and actresses? If companies did this, their clothing and other products wouldn't sell as well and their movies and TV shows would make less money.

Do you have statistics to back this up?

 

[Devolution]

So what's the solution to this problem? Force people to use unattractive and overweight women as models and actresses? If companies did this, their clothing and other products wouldn't sell as well and their movies and TV shows would make less money.

Has Dove suffered profit losses from showcasing a wider variety of women?

 

[WanderingWind]

Ok ... but give me 3 actress in the same body type as Jack Black, Zach Galifinafianakis or Danny DeVito

Or ONE actress with Feldman or Buscemi eyes

Rosie O'Donnell. Queen Latifah. Kathy Bates.

Sarah Jessica Parker.

Off the top of my head.

 

[Shouta]

inspiration behind

I couldn't help but laugh at this. I'm totally going to try this line next time I talk to a woman that is lamenting having small breasts. I want to see how far they spit their water out.

 

[sleepykyo]

Roseanne Barr, Tamala Jones (Lanie on Castle), Beverly Elliot (Granny from Once Upon a Time).

 

[Rentahamster]

While the concept behind the Dove ad is nice, that was Photoshopped too ya know.

 

[Platy]

So what's the solution to this problem? Force people to use unattractive and overweight women as models and actresses? If companies did this, their clothing and other products wouldn't sell as well and their movies and TV shows would make less money.

Dove exmple is a good one that has beautiful people and yet it shows how beauty can come from all sizes

Also about the movies and tv shows ... Pixar wants to have a talk with you xD

 

[Devolution]

While the concept behind the Dove ad is nice, that was Photoshopped too ya know.

Of course it was. They all have flat stomachs in that picture.

 

[Lunchbox]

Do you have statistics to back this up?

i watched emma stones movie

didnt watch the octomom porno

 

[Atrus]

The influence a parent has on a child is highly dependent on the society. The higher the power distance a country has, the more likely a child will absorb the information that is being transmitted from a parent. The social dynamics of a country like the US allows the society to affect children in spite of good parenting.

You're absolutely correct, and I do admit that my suggestion does intentionally invoke a criticism of societal interests that want to raise consumers first and foremost.

 

[Dom Brunt]

Of course it was. They all have flat stomachs in that picture.

And most likely no cellulite either.

 

[ghostofsparta]

Dear Lord, I would work two jobs for this woman.

Women may get a lot of shit about their bodies but not from me.

 

[Trent Strong]

It seems to be the MO of British television.

Oh snap.

Do you have statistics to back this up?

No. But I've read a lot of stories of advertisers focus testing commercials with not very attractive and overweight models, and the people in the focus tests really hating them.

Dove exmple is a good one that has beautiful people and yet it shows how beauty can come from all sizes

Also about the movies and tv shows ... Pixar wants to have a talk with you xD

I don't think the Dove real beauty campaign has been very successful.

 

[Stet]

I don't think the Dove real beauty campaign has been very successful.

What? The Dove Real Beauty Campaign is a case study in success, are you kidding me?

 

[Acageron]

Thread reminds me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=rUOpqd0rQSo

 

[Devolution]

Not very successful nor profitable. Still doing it since 2004. Yeah sure Trent.

 

[Lunchbox]

Thread reminds me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=rUOpqd0rQSo

shes taking time off the morning news for this shit?

talk about attention whoring

 

[Atrus]

There is no overt exploitation in a lot of cases, it's a bombardment of teasing and ridicule. In order to make these things stop they look to what's being cast in a positive light and try to emulate that. If the standards are ridiculous they never measure up and are always insecure. Even good parenting cannot stop bullying at the source but better and more realistic standards can be displayed rather than the current trend of digitally anorexic and photoshopped models. No one is asking for or entitled to a "happier" culture just that the media not reflect impossible standards and bombard people with that imagery.

What of people who are not 'average'? Which by virtue of the definition is less than half any given population.

No matter where you draw the line, you will always have a population that will be made insecure because of it. Currently, it's ridiculously high but there is no gradation between someone in the bottom 10th and the upper quarter in terms of appearances, they both feel insecure based on a binary comparison with the upper 1% (or some CGI fantasy in some cases).

It is the underlying basis for that insecurity, that need to derive self-esteem from the judgements of strangers, that is an issue. Even if we found contentment for all in appearances, they will still be exploited for their choices in a consumerist society.

The clothes they wear, the cars they drive, the jobs they work, the brands of anything they buy. To sell anything is to try and create a desire, and that is tied with instilling someone in any given state with a feeling of inadequacy. Given the relative dependance on that consumer culture to sustain growth and positive economic conditions, the only other option is to immunize children to survive it.

 

[Mudkips]

It's really not. It's nothing like it in fact.

It really is. It's exactly like it in fact.

 

[Devolution]

What of people who are not 'average'? Which by virtue of the definition is less than half any given population.

No matter where you draw the line, you will always have a population that will be made insecure because of it. Currently, it's ridiculously high but there is no gradation between someone in the bottom 10th and the upper quarter in terms of appearances, they both feel insecure based on a binary comparison with the upper 1% (or some CGI fantasy in some cases).

It is the underlying basis for that insecurity, that need to derive self-esteem from the judgements of strangers, that is an issue. Even if we found contentment for all in appearances, they will still be exploited for their choices in a consumerist society.

The clothes they wear, the cars they drive, the jobs they work, the brands of anything they buy. To sell anything is to try and create a desire, and that is tied with instilling someone in any given state with a feeling of inadequacy. Given the relative dependance on that consumer culture to sustain growth and positive economic conditions, the only other option is to immunize children to survive it.

You're not really offering a counter argument to my statement that realistic standards of beauty are better overall for society, especially teenagers.

 

[way more]

It really is. It's exactly like it in fact.

It may be similar but it effects women more. Sure short men get paid less but the job discrimination faced by unnattractive women is greater. I mean, of course it is, men are the ones in the position to hire applicants.

Exactly alike in the sense it occurs to both. But in the same quantity or to the same degree, I think not. That's like saying white/black men get turned down for jobs exactly the same way.

 

[Trent Strong]

What? The Dove Real Beauty Campaign is a case study in success, are you kidding me?

Not very successful nor profitable. Still doing it since 2004. Yeah sure Trent.

According to Cracked (not a very reliable source, I know), Dove has dropped the Real Beauty campaign, and after a brief increase in sales, it's sales are no higher now than they were before they started the campaign. Course, it's Cracked, but still, if this campaign was wildly successful, you'd think every other company would do the same thing. Obviously there's a reason other companies aren't copying Dove.

 

[Igo]

I really don't think the media play as big a part as everyone makes out. People may aspire to look like the models and celebrities they see in magazines and on tv, but I don't think that's who most people really measure themselves against. Doesn't that honor actually belong to their friends, classmates and the public at large? I mean, if everyone outside hollywood were ugly as fuck, would this still be a problem?

Also, this real/normal girl bullshit needs to go. It's complete nonsense, especially so considering that a pretty high percentage of the worlds population are actually fit and attractive.

 

[LCGeek]

Also, this real/normal girl bullshit needs to go. It's complete nonsense, especially so considering that a pretty high percentage of the worlds population are actually fit and attractive.

Considering how many people live in poverty and are undernourished I find that idea to be load of bullshit. You can say some people are thin but they are from fit, attractive, or healthy.

 

[Acageron]

shes taking time off the morning news for this shit?

talk about attention whoring

Evidently, it was bullying month. Still, I don't think this needed attention.

 

[Messofanego]

I really don't think the media play as big a part as everyone makes out. People may aspire to look like the models and celebrities they see in magazines and on tv, but I don't think that's who most people really measure themselves against. Doesn't that honor actually belong to their friends, classmates and the public at large? I mean, if everyone outside hollywood were ugly as fuck, would this still be a problem?

What if those people they knew were also trying to achieve the marketing ideal by getting into fitness or weight loss? Sounds like a vicious pyramid scheme.

Also, this real/normal girl bullshit needs to go. It's complete nonsense, especially so considering that a pretty high percentage of the worlds population are actually fit and attractive.

Are there statistics to back this?

 

[GhostWriter24]

I couldn't help but laugh at this. I'm totally going to try this line next time I talk to a woman that is lamenting having small breasts. I want to see how far they spit their water out.

Or smack the shit out of you, same thing.

 

[Ghost_Protocol]

"Successful women are only considered a success if they are successful AND hot"

A sad truth.

 

[Atrus]

You're not really offering a counter argument to my statement that realistic standards of beauty are better overall for society, especially teenagers.

There is no realistic standard of beauty, it is a relative term based on the prevailing success of a minority grouping on an ever shifting standard away from the rest of society.

It is not beautiful if it is everywhere.

The pathos of inadequacy will still persist if nothing has been done to address it as an underlying issue.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

She looks like the actress that plays Queen Amidala, but bigger.

 

[Devolution]

There is no realistic standard of beauty, it is a relative term based on the prevailing success of a minority grouping on an ever shifting standard away from the rest of society.

It is not beautiful if it is everywhere.

The pathos of inadequacy will still persist if nothing has been done to address it as an underlying issue.

I'm talking about photoshopping to lengths in which the person in the picture is anatomically impossible. The line isn't relative or hard to see at that point. You're just being obtuse.

 

[Seguin]

She looks like the actress that plays Queen Amidala, but bigger.

how do you not know Natalie Portman's name

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

how do you not know Natalie Portman's name

I'm terrified beyond the capacity for rational thought.

 

[Atrus]

I'm talking about photoshopping to lengths in which the person in the picture is anatomically impossible. The line isn't relative or hard to see at that point. You're just being obtuse.

It is a binary decision. Quite literally, hot or not. Whether it's a completely CG model or an unshopped photo of Halle Berry glammed up in someone's product, the distinction is already there.

The impossibility is inconsequential at that point.

 

[coldvein]

"Successful women are only considered a success if they are successful AND hot"

A sad truth.

i dont think thats true at all. i know plenty of ladies who are very successful..small business owners, etc. most of them i wouldn't describe as hot, but i would certainly describe as successful.

 

[Seanspeed]

My ex-girlfriend had a mom who was terrible about this sort of stuff. "Oh Amanda(not her real name), you look like you've gained some weight." "You should workout more Amanda." "You really think that bathing suit is gonna fit you?" Shit like that made me want to slap her for it sometimes. Luckily, my girlfriend was a pretty strong person and could just roll her eyes and ignore it for the most part, but it had to have had some effect growing up with a mom like that.

i dont think thats true at all. i know plenty of ladies who are very successful..small business owners, etc. most of them i wouldn't describe as hot, but i would certainly describe as successful.

Its not a matter of fact, its a matter of personal perception. Thats the way some girls might feel, even if its not really the case most of the time.

 

[Partial Gamification]

"Successful women are only considered a success if they are successful AND hot"

A sad truth.

No, it is just a false image that women are bombarded with. Look at all the successful politicians and diplomats. I'm not trying to judge their beauty but I think it is clear that the majority are not going to hounded for Maxim spreads. I won't deny that women do face this but blatently accepting it only creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. I have to put blame on the parents and her community, for buying into this shit and subtly perpetuating it by default. They can throw up their hands and say "well, what can we do with all the MTV, etc." and I'd tell them to look a little deeper into the mirror.

I am assuming that she is a culturally conditioned middle class kid that was not shown the proper role models. The middle class is largely complacient to the costs that our daily lives on Society, and it isn't until some little white girl says she can't be a sexy doctor, or is murder for a bike that all of a sudden there is a problem that needs to be changed, rather than a systemic cancer that need to be treated. Contrary to popular belief, there are men that would rather be on NeoGaf than entertain skinny bimbos.

...and the photo in the article: did they make her up like Ugly Betty (the show) or is that really her style?

 

[Lord Ghirahim]

My ex-girlfriend had a mom who was terrible about this sort of stuff. "Oh Amanda(not her real name), you look like you've gained some weight." "You should workout more Amanda." "You really think that bathing suit is gonna fit you?" Shit like that made me want to slap her for it sometimes. Luckily, my girlfriend was a pretty strong person and could just roll her eyes and ignore it for the most part, but it had to have had some effect growing up with a mom like that.

I know a mother who said to her 13-year-old daughter, "you need to study more because you can't become a whore with your looks".

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Negativity applies to guys, too. I remember my friends in high school making fun of me for being too damn skinny. I started to workout during my senior year in HS.

 

[Yoshiya]

If the Dove "big girl" is big ... then it means we are fucked

It's an attainable body type for most people, at least. Most women will simply never have model bodies no matter what they do. I'm wary of the seemingly antithetical nature of body image advocates and the obesity crisis - ideally, we have to reset the idealised form for both sexes to be fairly slim and athletic, but in such a way that it's something that people can genuinely aspire to. I read some article the other day in which a larger woman complained that high street retailers discriminated by not carrying 16+ sizes, which I don't think is a necessarily legitimate grievance.

Negativity applies to guys, too. I remember my friends in high school making fun of me for being too damn skinny. I started to workout during my senior year in HS.

This too. Between working out, watching my diet, managing appearance and skin care etc. I'm willing to bet I expend as much time, money and energy on my outwards appearance as many women. Is that time wasted? Am I being oppressed by societal "lookism"? I don't think encouraging people to look good is necessarily unhelpful, given our ideas of "good" correlate fairly strongly with good health.

 

[Seanspeed]

I know a mother who said to her 13-year-old daughter, "you need to study more because you can't become a whore with your looks".

Was it someone you knew? I'd have a hard time keeping my mouth closed hearing that.

 

[ProfessorLobo]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...essages-we-send-to-our-daughters-8222556.html (The Independent)



Wow. My mother does this and it's now transferred to my sister who's very self-conscious about her body image to the point of actual delusion of thinking she's fat even though she has 20 BMI. She's going to be a doctor in a year or so and yet still that won't be enough. Then the rest of the world just feeds that confirmation bias to become an onslaught.

The Dove "real beauty" campaign [AMAZING AD] (started in 2004) was a good push in the right direction. Even though advertising is meant to show perfect images a little reality would be good especially when people are hurting themselves over fake images. It's honestly down to them since they're everywhere.

The irony here is that these pictures are still of women most would consider beautiful.

Freckles? OH NO!!!

 

[coldvein]

The irony here is that these pictures are still of women most would consider beautiful.

Freckles? OH NO!!!

yeah, there should be one with a tragic acne outbreak.