The reason it can't be done normally (or as we know, brute force) because the new technologies are going beyond something originally intended for 2005 hardware.
Outside of Crytek, PC FPS exclusives don't generally have massive budgets like Halo 4.
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- Thread starter ekim
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The reason it can't be done normally (or as we know, brute force) because the new technologies are going beyond something originally intended for 2005 hardware.
Outside of Crytek, PC FPS exclusives don't generally have massive budgets like Halo 4.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
oh my glob, a flashlight in someones face.
http://vimeo.com/36048029
that impresses me more. Specially since it's got accurate subsurface modeling, not that flat pastey looking stuff.
PC games don't generally have massive budgets anyways. I blame part of it on people still thinking you need to spend $2000 on a pc to get good graphics in a game or you're unable to do this and play on a couch or whatever, which isn't and hasn't been the case for quite some time now, so they think they're getting a better deal by buying a console once in a while for 1/4 of the "price"
universalmind
Member
lol u got rolled
Have a link for the paper ?
EightBitNate
Member
But that's not in Halo 4, so.... what are you saying?
les papillons sexuels
Banned
guess not anymore, they took the paper down after the website update.
http://halo.bungie.net/news/content.aspx?link=Siggraph_09
that was the original sight which had both bungie's method and cryteks.
I was never talking about halo 4, I was talking about the lighting method. That the approach is better then cryteks in my opinion.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Yea and that's not in Halo 4...
-_-
Delicious GIF is delicious.
Nevermind, the game looks spectacular and in the end is all that matters
Surly a fully dynamic GI etc would make it even better, but Halo 5 is coming to 720 and will be a step beyond anything we know so far
EightBitNate
Member
But you were talking about Bungie's lighting technique, which is still irrelevant to the video you posted.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
right? but I also think that tiled foreward rendering is better then deferred and that deferred rending is garbage, but just because I don't have examples that adequately displace "proof," in a shitty gif format, that one is better doesn't mean I dont appreciate the technique more.
Nevermind, the game looks spectacular and in the end is all that matters
Surly a fully dynamic GI etc would make it even better, but Halo 5 is coming to 720 and will be a step beyond anything we know so far
eh, it has its advantages and disadvantages, I think there's still room for prebaked lighting in games, and that the approach is often times more successful. Look at mirrors edge for example. I think a blend between the 2 is for the best. Halo has many dynamic lights while also having more accurate radiosity then other fully dynamic GI models with the exception of like farcry 3.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Still confused, you talk about lighting methods but link to an amazing subsurface scattering method in which the lighting isn't the focal part of the technique.
EightBitNate
Member
I don't understand him very much either. I think he's just looking for a way to shit on Crysis for some reason.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
because someone showed me a scaled gif to a persons face, what does a point light have to do with it? It's one light in a confined area on a single target, that's fantastic. Anyone can make a good looking cinematic point light on a persons face. I linked a video to something which shows you another face with multiple point lights, it says nothing about the rendering.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Yea something that
- runs in a confined space with nothing else being rendered (ironic you complain about this in regards to the Crysis 3 video...)
- Even then still needs fairly powerful hardware to run at a decent resolution and framerate
You linked to a video showing off a different implementation of subsurface scattering...hence the video title being called 'Separable Subsurface Scattering (Real Time)' so yes...you linked to something that says something about the rendering. You can even read up on it at the link you provided.
Your Link said:
Again the entire link is in regards to rendering.
I always mean it as in a per case scenario, for example having dynamic GI without a day/night cycle or dynamic lighting situations would be useless anyway and in such a case a pre-baked solution would free more power for other effects and rendering
speculawyer
Member
Day 1. $599 is fine, it will come down over time.
-_-
Nobody else finds the focus lights appering out of nowhere distracting?
LOD pop in. It's less distracting in a higher framerate.
You really have a thing for these two games....Far Cry 3 probably has the worst frame-rate I've seen this gen so it's hardly the game to look at when judging frame-rates on PS360 this late into this gen, hell it runs constantly at 25fps with dips and 50% tearing.
Both of those games could've been much smoother on the consoles but the devs made some shitty choices and went graphics>performance, on the other hand you have games like Hitman: Absolution (which was really impressive looking and with tons of npc's on screen at some spots at constant 30fps while retaining the 720p framebuffer), Sleeping Dogs (360), Halo 4, Forza Horizon, Max Payne 3, Syndicate, The Darkness 2, The Witcher 2, Resident Evil 6 e.t.c. that looked and run very good. It's a little unfair to just mention and focus on two games with "cinematic" frame-rate as you say when the average performance of high profile PS360 games is much better than ~18-25fps with no v-sync.
To be fair, Splinter Cell: Double Agent set the bar for absolute shit performance on current gen consoles.
-_-
Don't even give him the time of day, you only feed his Crytek hate-boner.
Yeah, but it's just a sprite with no transparency from the looks of it, when the comet thing goes through it the tail becomes invisible behind the focus light.
Looks great overall but there are little things they could improve.
My point is that we are 7-8 years into this gen and devs know exactly how far these old ass systems can go, if they're pushing graphical fidelity too far and have shitty performance it's entirely their fault...you can't blame the PS3 for the 20-25fps on FC3 when Ubi Montreal chose to keep the resolution at 1274x702 and keep the stupid looking SSAO when every ms counts...FC3 looks like a project led on the PC that they constantly threw things on the console versions while not giving a fuck about how the game runs and in the last minute they tried to make this shit "playable" by getting rid of v-sync so the game doesn't run at 15fps - totally unacceptable and embarrassing IMO for such a high profile game.
And yeah Double Agent performance was atrocious, I remember playing the demo and was like wtf they were thinking? btw DA is also a Ubisoft game.
crysis 1 looks more impressive to me than halo 4 lol
specialguy
Banned
it also still needs a monster pc...duh...
Crysis 1 on console?
ColonelColon
Member
I should have known that these consoles would be powerhouses, despite the silly 6670 rumor. I wonder if a Radeon 7970 will even be adequate to run PC versions of next gen multiplatform games at a stable framerate in 1080p.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Sure, Halo 4 looks leagues above Reach imo
Halo 4 is one of the few games that actually looks better in the bigger screenshots
and is hands down one of the most impressive games i have seen in my life
Very pretty (though these are still tiny screenshots I guess I'm just not used to looking at 720p stuff on my 10 year old 1200p crt monitor
)I also think it's good that they prebake pretty much everything , the artstyle is good the color scheme is great, every time a console tries to do any dynamic lighting or shadows it just completely shits the bed, the end result this way is ten times more consistent and better looking. (same reason why mirror's edge looks so much better than any other ue3 game)
Though to be honest, if you remove the cardboard cutout backgrounds in the outdoor scenes there isn't much left in this scene other than really ugly vegetation in the forground.... You might as well use rayman as an example then...
I cringe every time I see someone link that uncharted vita shot of the waterfall and the huge vista that is entirely 2d to show off the visuals.
I kinda forgot what the original argument was.
If it was that you can with talent and effort and enough smoke and mirrors get nice results on ancient weak ass hardware: definitely.
But using this (or a game like rage) as an argument that a lot can be done technically on old hardware is just wrong.
The whole point of a way more powerful hardware in next gen would be that you can do all this stuff dynamically in real time and have all the shadows and effects be calculated at a high precision.
People always bitch and moan about rising dev costs, well if there is one thing that is expensive to do it is having to prebake and manually adjust the lighting and light bouncing etc into every single texture, because every time you change ANYTHING (move a fake light source or move objects or change layout) you can throw most of the work away and start over...
Just try to place a few candlesticks in map in UDK, waste half an hour creating a bunch of extra lights to get it to look right (with one lightsource everything behind any obstacle will look way too dark) and then mess with their position and color and brightness to get it all to look right.
Then change a few things about the layout of the room, or move a big obstacle in the middle or move some meshes around and you get to fuckin start all over again.
No wonder map design sucks so much in mp games these days, it's just too laborious to redo everything after playtesting when you want to make changes.
In ue4 for example with their real time solution you don't have to do anything... you place the one light that the player can see ,set its properties and the engine does the rest, you could move everything inside the room as much as you want and it would still look right.
Again look at rage, how much was that game delayed , how ridiculously long did it take them to make it (everything is prebaked in rage too), how long did they have to muck about to get their game to work on consoles (theres an hour long interview with carmack where he explains in detail how much work they had to do), and only to still have the game end up being a static looking texture popping mess.
With better hardware without nasty bottlenecks devs will save a lot of time.
I think they'll save a lot of time already just from the upgrade, last gen consoles just weren't powerful enough to do any dynamic lighting at a decent resolution and framerate, nor half the stuff the AAA games try to pull off. Almost every effect on ps3/xbox is done at half or quarter resolution, and many at half framerate. (+ the hideous fourth wall breaking LOD swapping they have to do).
I said it once before, it'll take a 4x leap just to get current games at an acceptable resolution and framerate, and probably another 2x that just to actually render these things in more than a 10 feet bubble around the player (the lod in games like far cry 3 is really embarrasing).
Current console games bite off way more than the consoles can chew, we need a big jump to see a graphical leap without immediately getting all these awful compromises again.
Right now optimisation seems to mean 'make everything as the artists and mappers envision it, then turn everything back off and remove everything until it actually runs on the wheezing old hardware. (usually at 20-30 fps)
Very pretty (though these are still tiny screenshots I guess I'm just not used to looking at 720p stuff on my 10 year old 1200p crt monitor
I also think it's good that they prebake pretty much everything , the artstyle is good the color scheme is great, every time a console tries to do any dynamic lighting or shadows it just completely shits the bed, the end result this way is ten times more consistent and better looking. (same reason why mirror's edge looks so much better than any other ue3 game)
Though to be honest, if you remove the cardboard cutout backgrounds in the outdoor scenes there isn't much left in this scene other than really ugly vegetation in the forground.... You might as well use rayman as an example then...
I cringe every time I see someone link that uncharted vita shot of the waterfall and the huge vista that is entirely 2d to show off the visuals.
But the effect is what counts in the end - and Halo 4's graphics might make me buy my first Halo title when it's cheaper.
its 2013...
Do it. It's a looker and a fun shooter with scifi porn all over it. It certainly is not the best Halo game though.
I never played a Halo game (except 10 minutes of Halo 1 on a pc) and I'm totally noobish when it comes to shooters on consoles.
edit: but I guess I can read about the story so far?
systemfehler
Member
I could live with a minor bump in graphics if the overall credibility of the "world" gets better. More people wandering the streets, realistic physics, proper destruction, etc. add much more to the atmosphere than graphics alone. Of course depending on the game (eg. Splinter Cell) - a proper shadow and correct lighting are important aswell. I couldn't care less for all those glossy combat suits if I can't shoot a tin can from a table...
evil solrac v3.0
Member
no it does not.
dito. +less pop in and more details for distant views.
Is that from gfaqs?
i remember seeing a topic on there about Illumiroom and those apparent leaked 720 documents last year. The topic was something along the lines of perhaps the specs mentioned in those documents are legit considering Illumiroom was mentioned in it as well.
My i5 2500K my SLI 570GTX has more trouble running Crysis at 1080p 60fps than it does Crysis 2, Battlefield 3 or The Witcher 2. I don't think there are many games even today that are more demanding than Crysis (out of some horrible console ports like GTA 4 or Saints Row 2).
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Probably unwise to post something from a banned site... especially one notorious for making up shite.
See my bold markups - I think some legitimacy is given with this number of correct predictions so far.
He took a guess based on rumours. Like everything else in there.
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