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Rumored Chinese Forum Xbox720 specs: 8CoreCPU,8GB,HD8800GPU,W8,640GBHDD

see my above post.

edit: and he correctly predicted 3DS Pokemon.

3DS Pokemon is not correct, says it needs 2 more years and the game is coming out less than a year after that article.

The Live wall thing is not really correct either. It's not a 360 degree thing around you, it's not projecting different images on different walls and it wasn't introduced in 2014.

The whole thing is garbage
 

DieH@rd

Banned
ok then... I guess I have to remove that to avoid further confusion.

In the meantime:
http://legitreviews.com/news/14902/
(CES: Crucial announces DDR4 DRAM Modules)

Is there a possibility that such modules can be found in nextgen consoles?

Crucial just buys memory from Samsung, Micron, Nanya, etc. Those companies will decide if they can manufacture DDR4 in large quantities [analysts predicts that 512MB DDR4 chips will cost around 2-3$ in late 2013, but only if servers adopt DDR4 memory controllers ASAP].
 

CrunchinJelly

formerly cjelly
Crucial just buys memory from Samsung, Micron, Nanya, etc. Those companies will decide if they can manufacture DDR4 in large quantities [analysts predicts that 512MB DDR4 chips will cost around 2-3$ in late 2013, but only if servers adopt DDR4 memory controllers ASAP].

Crucial is Micron.
 

nasos_333

Member
My i5 2500K my SLI 570GTX has more trouble running Crysis at 1080p 60fps than it does Crysis 2, Battlefield 3 or The Witcher 2. I don't think there are many games even today that are more demanding than Crysis (out of some horrible console ports like GTA 4 or Saints Row 2).

Crysis is badly optimized
 

Karak

Member
I've found this recent blog post (in spanish)
http://josepjroca.wordpress.com/2013/01/05/dando-forma-a-durango/

It's not really clear to me, apparently it's a long reasoning based on MS patents, AMD slides and various rumors, I'm not sure if there's anything new in it.
Maybe someone could be interested in reading it.

Google translate for now.

As you know many I have the mania of a ride by the patents to see if encounter something interesting related to the upcoming systems, this time my last trip has given me some information about the bowels of Xbox/Durango 8. For the people who not this day, say that you a patent general what is the next Microsoft console is what is called "A scalable computer with quality assurance of service", the patent describes an entirely different to Xbox 360 multimedia system, but if someone asks is that the quality of service/QoS in computer science say that they are the technical aspects that enable networks used both in telephony as computing power provide a series of services such as now:

Streaming media (TV, Internet Radio, game cloud...)
Communication over IP (video conferencing, VoIP)
Online game

We know that Microsoft has plans for the game in the cloud thanks to the document that will filter a few months ago, on the map of route of the next console, the Microsoft Xbox 8 idea is quite simple to explain, by the time Xbox 360 has an application called Smartglass that allows interaction via local network with different deviceswith Xbox 8 implemented the possibility to stream content to the different components of a local area network, so we can send via WiFi content from the Xbox 8 to other computers, tablets, smartphones and even glasses RV/RA using wireless transmission. This idea is completely opposite to the design of the Xbox 360 that is thought to be a PC with Windows Media Center the content server.
 
ok nm I don't know jack shit about this stuff. lol his translation

1. xbox 720 uses four cores processor, each can be divided into 4 different functions
2. build in Kinect 2.0, support up to 4 ppl online gaming at the same time, can detect accurately everyone's hand motion
3. uses windows 8 user interface (which i think is crap)
4. cooperate with Kinect 2.0, support 3D sound effect, according to the head position of a player, deliver different sounds
5. new controller, buttons can be customized.
6. cloud gaming, no worries on running same game on the device??(thats what i get... but i doubt it is the meaning...)
7. new xbox live, better support social function, more free games.
8. the servicing app for windos 8 and windows phone now are available to the xbox media.
 
I've found this recent blog post (in spanish)
http://josepjroca.wordpress.com/2013/01/05/dando-forma-a-durango/

It's not really clear to me, apparently it's a long reasoning based on MS patents, AMD slides and various rumors, I'm not sure if there's anything new in it.
Maybe someone could be interested in reading it.

I follow him (Urian). It is an interesting reading.

This was posted on B3D and it is interesting too:

Originally Posted by Hecatoncheires View Post
Hey guys,

I have a few questions concerning the rumour of an APU and GPU combination concerning the new PlayStation, if that is agreeable. Maybe someone can bring a little light into my darkness.

I stumbled upon this slide from the Fusion Developer Summit which took place in June 2012. The slide deals with GPGPU algorithms in video games. There are a couple of details that are probably somewhat interesting when speculating about a next generation gaming console.

As far as I understand, AMD argues that today GPGPU algorithms are used for visual effects only, for example physics computations of fluids or particles. That is because developers are facing an insurmountable bottleneck on systems that use homogeneous processor architectures. AMD calls it the copy overhead. This copy overhead originates from the copy work between the CPU and the GPU that can easily take longer than the processing itself. Due to this problem game developers only use GPGPU algorithms for visual effects that don't need to be sent back to the CPU. AMD's solution for this bottleneck is a unified adress space for CPU and GPU and other features that have been announced for the upcoming 2013 APUs Kabini (and Kaveri).

But these features alone are only good for eliminating the copy overhead. Developers still have to deal with another bottleneck, namely the saturated GPU. This problem is critical for GPGPU in video games since the GPU has to deal with both, game code and GPGPU algorithms at once. I'm not sure whether this bottleneck only exists for thick APIs like DirectX or if it also limits an APU that is coded directly to the metal. Anyway, AMD claims that a saturated GPU makes it hard for developers to write efficient GPGPU code. To eliminate this bottleneck AMD mentions two solutions: Either you can wait for a 2014 HSA feature that is called Graphics Pre-Emption, or you can just use an APU for the GPGPU algorithms and a dedicated GPU for graphics rendering. The latter is what AMD recommends explicitly for video gaming and they even bring up the similarities to the PlayStation 3, which renownedly uses SIMD co-processors for all kinds of tasks.


I would like to know what you guys think about these slides.


What if AMD was building an 28nm APU for Sony that is focused solely on GPGPU, for example four big Steamroller cores with very fast threads in conjunction with a couple of MIMD engines? Combine it with a dedicated GPU and a high bandwidth memory solution and you have a pretty decent next gen console.

I would also like to know if an APU + GPU + RAM system in package is possible with 2.5D stacking, which was forecasted by Yole Development for the Sony PlayStation 4, for IBM Power8 and Intel Haswell.

And since Microsoft is rumoured to have a heavily customized chip with a "special sauce", could that mean they paid AMD to integrate the 2014 feature Graphics Pre-Emption in the XBox processor, so they can go with one single ultra-low latency chip instead of a FLOP-heavy system in package?

Full HSA for Durango?


So I may have some bad news for you guys a friend of mine translated the info for me and he saying it has 4 cores not 8 cores but the rest of the info looks about the same.

1. xbox 720 uses four cores processor, each can be divided into 4 different functions
2. build in Kinect 2.0, support up to 4 ppl online gaming at the same time, can detect accurately everyone's hand motion
3. uses windows 8 user interface (which i think is crap)
4. cooperate with Kinect 2.0, support 3D sound effect, according to the head position of a player, deliver different sounds
5. new controller, buttons can be customized.
6. cloud gaming, no worries on running same game on the device??(thats what i get... but i doubt it is the meaning...)
7. new xbox live, better support social function, more free games.
8. the servicing app for windos 8 and windows phone now are available to the xbox media.


He is just speculating ;)
 

Reuenthal

Banned
I have stayed with old hardware and I don't know much about what the information about xbox720 specs means. I want to get a new PC. Should I wait until consoles come out? Are current PC strong enough or are the specs offereds high enough that it would be better to wait?
 

Reiko

Banned
I have stayed with old hardware and I don't know much about what that means. I want to get a new PC. Should I wait until consoles come out? Are current PC strong enough?

You will have to upgrade down the line. Your hardware will not last you the entire gen.
 

Respawn

Banned
Full HSA would benefit Kinect greatly.

Heterogeneous Systems Architecture :

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5847/answered-by-the-experts-heterogeneous-and-gpu-compute-with-amds-manju-hegde

http://images.anandtech.com/doci/5503/Screen%20Shot%202012-02-01%20at%202.14.03%20PM.png[/MG]

[URL="http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fusion-hsa-opencl-history,3262.html"]http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fusion-hsa-opencl-history,3262.html[/URL][/QUOTE]

I think it would help of you would explain it a bit for him
 

Reuenthal

Banned
You will have to upgrade down the line. Your hardware will not last you the entire gen.

Yeah but how powerful are these rumored specs in comparison to the situation a little before xbox360 came out?

BTW in most of this generation since 2008 I had an nvidia 9800/8800. So what I wonder would be if it would last similiarly but this time buying my pc before the consoles came out instead of after.
 

Reiko

Banned
Yeah but how powerful are these rumored specs in comparison to the situation a little before xbox360 came out?

BTW in most of this generation since 2008 I had an nvidia 9800/8800. So what I wonder would be if it would last similiarly but this time buying my pc before the consoles came out instead of after.

Probably for the first 2 years. By the next 2 years these games will start to get very ambitious.
 

Apath

Member
But the effect is what counts in the end - and Halo 4's graphics might make me buy my first Halo title when it's cheaper.
Good graphics do not make a good game. If you want to play a Halo game, buy 3 or Anniversary. Both have better campaigns.
 
Yeah but how powerful are these rumored specs in comparison to the situation a little before xbox360 came out?

BTW in most of this generation since 2008 I had an nvidia 9800/8800. So what I wonder would be if it would last similiarly but this time buying my pc before the consoles came out instead of after.

I remember as soon as the Xbox 360 came out, most PC ports started requiring pixel shader 2.0 and vertex shader 2.0 which rendered my hardware pretty much obsolete.
 
And since Microsoft is rumoured to have a heavily customized chip with a "special sauce", could that mean they paid AMD to integrate the 2014 feature Graphics Pre-Emption in the XBox processor, so they can go with one single ultra-low latency chip instead of a FLOP-heavy system in package?

From my understanding Graphic Pre-Emption is just about extending HSA to discreet GPUs. If you're using an APU with Jaguar or Steamroller cores you don't really need it since the memory space is already unified and those controls are already in place.
 

Desty

Banned
4. cooperate with Kinect 2.0, support 3D sound effect, according to the head position of a player, deliver different sounds

Wow that would be pretty interesting. Like it could model a head transfer function as it is called to modulate the frequencies as you look around to provide localized sound.
 

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
ok nm I don't know jack shit about this stuff. lol his translation
IMO this is already pretty impressive and exciting. Curious about the new controller, I wonder if its a modular design or that just means that you can customize mapping at the console level.
 
Eric Mejdrich Sr Director of SOC Architecture and Principal Architect Xbox at Microsoft

Some of the following have been discussed by Sony Game engine developers for the PS4. It's possible that some may show up in both consoles to allow software developers an easier port between platforms.

In any case I believe some of the following are the special sauce being discussed. The file dates for hardware features are all by Dec 2011 which is when SemiAccurate stated the Xbox 720 started tapeout.

http://www.faqs.org/patents/inventor/eric-o-mejdrich-2/


20110285709 Allocating Resources Based On A Performance Statistic - A method includes rendering an object of a three dimensional image via a pixel shader based on a render context data structure associated with the object. The method includes measuring a performance statistic associated with rendering the object. The method also includes storing the performance statistic in the render context data structure associated with the object. The performance statistic is accessible to a host interface processor to determine whether to allocate a second pixel shader to render the object in a subsequent three-dimensional image. 11-24-2011

20110285710 Parallelized Ray Tracing - A method includes assigning a priority to a ray data structure of a plurality of ray data structures based on one or more priorities. The ray data structure includes properties of a ray to be traced from an illumination source in a three-dimensional image. The method includes identifying a portion of the three-dimensional image through which the ray passes. The method also includes identifying a slave processing element associated with the portion of the three-dimensional image. The method further includes sending the ray data structure to the slave processing element. 11-24-2011

20110289485 Software Trace Collection and Analysis Utilizing Direct Interthread Communication On A Network On Chip - Collecting and analyzing trace data while in a software debug mode through direct interthread communication (‘DITC’) on a network on chip (‘NOC’), the NOC including integrated processor (‘IP’) blocks, routers, memory communications controllers, and network interface controllers, with each IP block adapted to a router through a memory communications controller and a network interface controller, where each memory communications controller controlling communications between an IP block and memory, and each network interface controller controlling inter-IP block communications through routers, including enabling the collection of software debug information in a selected set of IP blocks distributed through the NOC, each IP block within the selected set of IP blocks having a set of trace data; collecting software debugging information via the set of trace data; communicating the set of trace data to a destination repository; and analyzing the set of trace data at the destination repository. 11-24-2011


20110316855 Parallelized Streaming Accelerated Data Structure Generation - A method includes receiving at a master processing element primitive data that includes properties of a primitive. The method includes partially traversing a spatial data structure that represents a three-dimensional image to identify an internal node of the spatial data structure. The internal node represents a portion of the three-dimensional image. The method also includes selecting a slave processing element from a plurality of slave processing elements. The selected processing element is associated with the internal node. The method further includes sending the primitive data to the selected slave processing element to traverse a portion of the spatial data structure to identify a leaf node of the spatial data structure. 12-29-2011

20110316864 MULTITHREADED SOFTWARE RENDERING PIPELINE WITH DYNAMIC PERFORMANCE-BASED REALLOCATION OF RASTER THREADS - A multithreaded rendering software pipeline architecture dynamically reallocates regions of an image space to raster threads based upon performance data collected by the raster threads. The reallocation of the regions typically includes resizing the regions assigned to particular raster threads and/or reassigning regions to different raster threads to better balance the relative workloads of the raster threads. 12-29-2011

20110317712 Recovering Data From A Plurality of Packets - A method includes receiving a plurality of packets at an integrated processor block of a network on a chip device. The plurality of packets includes a first packet that includes an indication of a start of data associated with a pixel shader application. The method includes recovering the data from the plurality of packets. The method also includes storing the recovered data in a dedicated packet collection memory within the network on the chip device. The method further includes retaining the data stored in the dedicated packet collection memory during an interruption event. Upon completion of the interruption event, the method includes copying packets stored in the dedicated packet collection memory prior to the interruption event to an inbox of the network on the chip device for processing. 12-29-2011

20110320719 PROPAGATING SHARED STATE CHANGES TO MULTIPLE THREADS WITHIN A MULTITHREADED PROCESSING ENVIRONMENT - A circuit arrangement and method make state changes to shared state data in a highly multithreaded environment by propagating or streaming the changes to multiple parallel hardware threads of execution in the multithreaded environment using an on-chip communications network and without attempting to access any copy of the shared state data in a shared memory to which the parallel threads of execution are also coupled. Through the use of an on-chip communications network, changes to the shared state data may be communicated quickly and efficiently to multiple threads of execution, enabling those threads to locally update their local copies of the shared state. Furthermore, by avoiding attempts to access a shared memory, the interface to the shared memory is not overloaded with concurrent access attempts, thus preserving memory bandwidth for other activities and reducing memory latency. Particularly for larger shared states, propagating the changes, rather than an entire shared state, further improves performance by reducing the amount of data communicated over the on-chip communications network. 12-29-2011

20110320724 DMA-BASED ACCELERATION OF COMMAND PUSH BUFFER BETWEEN HOST AND TARGET DEVICES - Direct Memory Access (DMA) is used in connection with passing commands between a host device and a target device coupled via a push buffer. Commands passed to a push buffer by a host device may be accumulated by the host device prior to forwarding the commands to the push buffer, such that DMA may be used to collectively pass a block of commands to the push buffer. In addition, a host device may utilize DMA to pass command parameters for commands to a command buffer that is accessible by the target device but is separate from the push buffer, with the commands that are passed to the push buffer including pointers to the associated command parameters in the command buffer. 12-29-2011

20110321049 Programmable Integrated Processor Blocks - An integrated processor block of the network on a chip is programmable to perform a first function. The integrated processor block includes an inbox to receive incoming packets from other integrated processor blocks of a network on a chip, an outbox to send outgoing packets to the other integrated processor blocks, an on-chip memory, and a memory management unit to enable access to the on-chip memory. 12-29-2011

The following is software and was discussed by a Sony game engine developer.

20120176364 REUSE OF STATIC IMAGE DATA FROM PRIOR IMAGE FRAMES TO REDUCE RASTERIZATION REQUIREMENTS - An apparatus, program product and method reuse static image data generated during rasterization of static geometry to reduce the processing overhead associated with rasterizing subsequent image frames. In particular, static image data generated one frame may be reused in a subsequent image frame such that the subsequent image frame is generated without having to re-rasterize the static geometry from the scene, i.e., with only the dynamic geometry rasterized. The resulting image frame includes dynamic image data generated as a result of rasterizing the dynamic geometry during that image frame, and static image data generated as a result of rasterizing the static image data during a prior image frame. 07-12-2012

20110320771 INSTRUCTION UNIT WITH INSTRUCTION BUFFER PIPELINE BYPASS - A circuit arrangement and method selectively bypass an instruction buffer for selected instructions so that bypassed instructions can be dispatched without having to first pass through the instruction buffer. Thus, for example, in the case that an instruction buffer is partially or completely flushed as a result of an instruction redirect (e.g., due to a branch mispredict), instructions can be forwarded to subsequent stages in an instruction unit and/or to one or more execution units without the latency associated with passing through the instruction buffer. 12-29-2011

20120192202 Context Switching On A Network On Chip - A network on chip (NOC) that includes IP blocks, routers, memory communications controllers, and network interface controllers, each IP block adapted to the network by an application messaging interconnect including an inbox and an outbox, one or more of the IP blocks including computer processors supporting a plurality of threads, the NOC also including an inbox and outbox controller configured to set pointers to the inbox and outbox, respectively, that identify valid message data for a current thread; and software running in the current thread that, upon a context switch to a new thread, is configured to: save the pointer values for the current thread, and reset the pointer values to identify valid message data for the new thread, where the inbox and outbox controller are further configured to retain the valid message data for the current thread in the boxes until context switches again to the current thread. 07-26-2012
 
Probably for the first 2 years. By the next 2 years these games will start to get very ambitious.

How could that be the case? Even if the Durango's GPU is close to the GTX 680 in performance, the GTX 680 (or another equal or better video card) should be powerful enough to run next-gen multiplatform games. The X1950 Pro (roughly equivalent to the 360's Xenos) is still capable of running current generation games at 720p.
 

JohnDonut

Banned
I have stayed with old hardware and I don't know much about what the information about xbox720 specs means. I want to get a new PC. Should I wait until consoles come out? Are current PC strong enough or are the specs offereds high enough that it would be better to wait?
Current specs of PCs are strong enough to carry several 360s. There will be a small difference but your PC will last you longer to the next gen depending on what you buy. If you buy a laptop however forget it.
 

nasos_333

Member
How could that be the case? Even if the Durango's GPU is close to the GTX 680 in performance, the GTX 680 (or another equal or better video card) should be powerful enough to run next-gen multiplatform games. The X1950 Pro (roughly equivalent to the 360's Xenos) is still capable of running current generation games at 720p.

I would not get a GPU for PC until xbox 720 is out, the top GPU at that time will probably last as much, but is far from certain either way
 

Mindlog

Member
idk I thought 4 cores and quad cores were same thing? I asked him just now and he said again that it says that 720 uses 4 cores.
I believe he was referring to '4 core' pairs (slide here) or 4 'core pairs.' An octo-core with some specific configuration.

All-in-all even with these specifics it's increasingly feeling like a lot of us have a rather incomplete Durango picture.
 

charsace

Member
thanks for these. most of it goes over my head though. lol.

HSA is basically computing going back to a state similar to how it was before 94 when we started seeing these high performance 3d cards.

I would not get a GPU for PC until xbox 720 is out, the top GPU at that time will probably last as much, but is far from certain either way
None of the gpu/cpu configs will be worth anything when the next systems get released. Better to wait for new hardware that will be similar to the consoles. Buying stuff now for next gen is like people back in the day running out to buy P4's and Nvidia 7800GT when the 360 got launched. I would wait for a year after the launch of the next consoles before building any type of gaming system.
 
Halo 5 anyone?

tumblr_mco1z3YrDf1qzx3jto1_500.gif
 

nasos_333

Member
HSA is basically computing going back to a state similar to how it was before 94 when we started seeing these high performance 3d cards.


None of the gpu/cpu configs will be worth anything when the next systems get released. Better to wait for new hardware that will be similar to the consoles. Buying stuff now for next gen is like people back in the day running out to buy P4's and Nvidia 7800GT when the 360 got launched. I would wait for a year after the launch of the next consoles before building any type of gaming system.

Indeed, that would be the most advisable, just to be on the safe side

8800GT that came in 2006, months after xbox 360 was the lowest end games need this generation for example, anyone that spent money before that definitly got a system that did not last
 
Urian, the guy of the spanish blog, suggest that next xbox will use a two SoC/APU, one of those for rendering the current frame and the another one for post-processing. He is speculating based on current known patents but it looks similar to this from semiaccurate forum:

8 upgraded jaguar cores 8gb ram 8000 series gpu with specs that of a 7770 ghz edition esram hefty pseudo gpu (unlike anything that we'll seen before) that assists the main gpu, marketing flops and documents don't include the numbers for part yet. general purpose dsp that can be used for audio or graphics Durango GPU is basically a gcn2 7770 ghz edition with esram. 1.2 teraflops. There is also some extra stuff in the box that makes it perform like a 3tf card in the real world.
 

i-Lo

Member
That "3TF" statement sounds so ludicrous. Then again, in such a customized environment where games are developed to such exact target specs, the games would definitely look better than what would be expected from a normal Radeon HD7770.
 
Urian, the guy of the spanish blog, suggest that next xbox will use a two SoC/APU, one of those for rendering the current frame and the another one for post-processing. He is speculating based on current known patents but it looks similar to this from semiaccurate forum:

hefty pseudo gpu (unlike anything that we'll seen before)

cell 2.0?

I know very little about these things, but this stuck out like a sore thumb in the quote.
 
I wish we could see like a making of of these things. Like a developer diaries with the engineers, and understanding their decisions and their vision.
 
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