Support NeoGAF

[i-Lo]

Didn't these demos run on a single GTX 680?

The talk is that the SW1313 ran on 3 GTX 680. They said it's far from being optimized and it's proven by the fact that Agni's Philosophy demo was running on a single 2GB GTX 680 at 1080p and 60fps.

Finally, iirc, Watch Dogs was also running on single GTX 680.

 

[ekim]

I find this hard to believe, even if the GTX680 is no slouch. Besides, I've searched everywhere and nowhere it is stipulated that the demo ran on this GC.

I'm really sure, I've read some E3 review which included developer statements and it said that 1313 and W_D ran on a 680 - but I can't find the source anymore.

edit: dang... 1313 on 3 680? :-/

 

[Eideka]

I'm really sure, I've read some E3 review which included developer statements and it said that 1313 and W_D ran on a 680 - but I can't find the source anymore.

No big deal anyway, we don't even know if the final game will truly look like this demo. Remember FC3 ?
Even the PC version is not on par with what was being shown, I can see the same thing happening with Watch Dogs.

 

[Blue Ninja]

I would have to disagree. Halo 2's campaign and story is definitely not the worst in the series. For one, Halo 2 allowed us to learn much more about the Covenant and what motivated them. Getting to play as the Arbiter was a very surprising move, and in my opinion I think it was a great decision. It really put you in the eyes of the enemy. Along with that, the music is still the best in the series.

Although Halo 2 may have not been the best game in the series, it is definitely not the worst. Halo Reach in my opinion had the weakest story and campaign, even behind ODST. The characters didn't matter to me and the story made no sense as it completely ignored the books.

That being said, I would not be too excited for a full fledged remake of Halo 2. It hasn't even been 10 years yet. Also, the main reason people are even looking forward to a remake is because of the multiplayer. I highly doubt we'll be getting the mp as it was on the original Xbox. At best we'll probably get map remakes from Halo 2 similar to Halo CE Anniversary.

Halo 2 had the best story in the series. I'm gonna have to replay that game at some point, damn.

 

[ShinobiFist]

I find this hard to believe, even if the GTX680 is no slouch. Besides, I've searched everywhere and nowhere it is stipulated that the demo ran on this GC.


3 GTX680s for SW1313...
http://www.pcgamer.com/previews/star-wars-1313-preview/
.

Damn. But I'm sure the game will be optimize once is final.

 

[USIGSJ]

They are astounding, esp. when it's been rendered in real time. It's amazing how these things, with poly level nearly identical to what's assigned per character today (around 40K) on the high end look better here than they do in the game. And it clicks, it's all about the lighting.

Tell me, do you have more like real time renders as examples? Also, thanks.

Somehow I have a bad habit of not bookmarking stuff, but you can try browsing pimping and previews section on polycount, lot of good stuff there.
Here's one I do remember though from one of the guys that worked on Samartian demo, you'll notice it has similar visual style.

http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82199&page=11

 

[Sulik2]

Halo 2 had the best story in the series. I'm gonna have to replay that game at some point, damn.

The story was good despite the cliffhanger. But the moment to moment gameplay and level design are by far my least favorite of the series.


I really just want it to be E3 already. All this speculation about next gen is killing me. Durango sounds interesting let us see the reveal already! I need to pull a Cartman.

 

[SniperHunter]

The talk is that the SW1313 ran on 3 GTX 680. They said it's far from being optimized and it's proven by the fact that Agni's Philosophy demo was running on a single 2GB GTX 680 at 1080p and 60fps.

Finally, iirc, Watch Dogs was also running on single GTX 680.

it didnt run at 60 FPS,,,fps was all over the place, min was 30

 

[i-Lo]

it didnt run at 60 FPS,,,fps was all over the place, min was 30

For Agni's? Hmm... I remember Nirolak saying that they were targeting 60fps, so I'd assume it was variable framerate. How did you know?

Somehow I have a bad habit of not bookmarking stuff, but you can try browsing pimping and previews section on polycount, lot of good stuff there.
Here's one I do remember though form one of the guys that worked on Samartian demo, you'll notice it has similar visual style.

http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82199&page=11

Thanks mate!

 

[SniperHunter]

For Agni's? Hmm... I remember Nirolak saying that they were targeting 60fps, so I'd assume it was variable framerate. How did you know?

it was in the watch impress article

 

[scently]

Halo 2 had the best story in the series. I'm gonna have to replay that game at some point, damn.

Honestly, it always blows my mind that people think the story in Halo 2 was not good. It still has the best story in the Halo games. They took us deeper into the lore and I really appreciated it. I can only imagine how much better Halo 3 would have been if not for the whole backlash about playable Arbiter....le sigh.

Back on point, I will be getting both consoles on launch.

 

[DieH@rd]

3xgtx680 was debunked or the initial reporting was false.

 

[Eideka]

3xgtx680 was debunked or the initial reporting was false.

Where ?

 

[dragonelite]

For Agni's? Hmm... I remember Nirolak saying that they were targeting 60fps, so I'd assume it was variable framerate. How did you know?



Thanks mate!

We got slides telling Agni was running 60fps..
With unoptimized art assets.

 

[alexandros]

The talk is that the SW1313 ran on 3 GTX 680.

Eh, if the code was unoptimized and they went for crazy-high AA then I can see why they would have 3 680s in there.

I don't believe in secret sauces and magical tricks that allow a Volvo to perform like a Ferrari. The Xbox 360 performed well for a couple of years because it had high-end tech, not because of secret chips and magical optimizations.

 

[thefil]

PC will always have "some" game that pushes every card. But what you have is fine for now.

Thanks. I'm not a big graphics guy. My desire would be 1920x1080, console-quality settings with no AA or Vsync. If I can pull that off, I'm happy.

Will upgrade for Elder Scrolls VI.

 

[USIGSJ]

3xgtx680 was debunked or the initial reporting was false.

Actually now I think that the intital report was false. PCgamer visited Lucas Arts directly and they were told it was 3x680 (link posted on previous page), later in december Edge also posted an article from a visit and they were told E3 demo ran on tri sli.

http://www.edge-online.com/features/lucasarts-new-hope-star-wars-1313-offers-a-glimpse-of-the-next-generation-through-hollywood-cg-talent/

 

[Eideka]

Actually I think now that intital report was false. PCgamer visited Lucas Arts directly and they were told it was 3x680, later in december Edge also had a visit and was told E3 demo ran on tri sli.

http://www.edge-online.com/features/lucasarts-new-hope-star-wars-1313-offers-a-glimpse-of-the-next-generation-through-hollywood-cg-talent/

Interesting.

 

[Karak]

Thanks. I'm not a big graphics guy. My desire would be 1920x1080, console-quality settings with no AA or Vsync. If I can pull that off, I'm happy.

Will upgrade for Elder Scrolls VI.

Actually that is a somewhat sound idea for GFX upgrading. Nothing wrong with that at all.

 

[1st Course]

Since we are talking about PCs here, I thinks this is a very interesting point:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/1552/5
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6096/evga-geforce-gtx-680-classified-review/7

In another thread some guy come up with a theory that today GPUs might not struggle too much with next gen games because of the wattage difference of modern GPUs and the wattage of GPUs in the past.

Any thoughts?

 

[Angelus Errare]

If you're talking about generic characters then you're correct. And perhaps calling "most" high end games is also a stretch. One would still be surprised to know that Kratos from GoW3 only took around 20K poly but on the other hand, Nathan and Chloe from U2 took around 37K and 45K respectively.

But again those aren't the average polygon counts for games this generation UC2 Drake and Chloe are probably the highest in a non fighting game by a fair margin, the average is still 15-28k even for high budget games. You could literally count the number of console games with 40k polygon characters on your hands.

 

[thehypocrite]

Is this a cipher about durango special sauce?

hint : KYZIKPKNF DS VJIRD

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1694483#post1694483

1.2 TFlops, 3 custom blocks, 1D SIMD. Stereo 1080P, mono 4K.

 

[sangreal]

Is this a cipher about durango special sauce?

hint : KYZIKPKNF DS VJIRD

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1694483#post1694483

1.2 TFlops, 3 custom blocks, 1D SIMD. Stereo 1080P, mono 4K.

this is ROT-22 encoded. it says THIRTYTWO MB ESRAM

 

[Insane Metal]

this is ROT-22 encoded for THIRTYTWO MB ESRAM

DAYUM

Thanks dude.

So if that is the final version, there won't be enough esram again, just like it happened with the 360 right?

 

[Gorillaz]

Is this a cipher about durango special sauce?

hint : KYZIKPKNF DS VJIRD

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1694483#post1694483

1.2 TFlops, 3 custom blocks, 1D SIMD. Stereo 1080P, mono 4K.

this is ROT-22 encoded. it says THIRTYTWO MB ESRAM

Good job guys now, lets translate this in Dragon Ball Z power. SO.....what are we dealing with?

 

[thehypocrite]

this is ROT-22 encoded. it says THIRTYTWO MB ESRAM

I knew GAF would crack it. Thanks Sangreal.

 

[Psychotext]

How much ram do you need for two 1920 x 1080 frames?

 

[derFeef]

DAYUM

Thanks dude.

So if that is the final version, there won't be enough esram again, just like it happened with the 360 right?

360 had 10mb eDRAM
edit: in theory I think those 10mb could do 4xAA on 720p for free.

 

[Eideka]

32 should be more than enough, good news.

 

[i-Lo]

But again those aren't the average polygon counts for games this generation UC2 Drake and Chloe are probably the highest in a non fighting game by a fair margin, the average is still 15-28k even for high budget games. You could literally count the number of console games with 40k polygon characters on your hands.

Oh absolutely and on one hand at that. Like I said, I did insert a bit of hyperbole. Makes me wonder if 50-60K characters with tessellation would be made standard next gen.

 

[DieH@rd]

I wanted more... expecially if they will focus on DDR3...

 

[Backfoggen]

What even is eSRAM? Faster eDRAM? Do you still have to account for tiling and stuff at 1080p?

 

[Karak]

32mb is low end but considered enough. It also depends on how it is used compared to the 360. There were some issues with the 360's setup that people disliked that are most likely gone from this setup.

Regarding costs you really couldn't expect much more. That shit is like Unubtanium in its cost.

 

[dragonelite]

DAYUM

Thanks dude.

So if that is the final version, there won't be enough esram again, just like it happened with the 360 right?

Its looks like deferred rendering will be the chosen render path because of of the 32mb esram. Good enough to hold a fat Gbuffer which needs four framebuffers containing all the data needed for shading.

 

[derFeef]

Gaf was faster... 321 432 (acronyms)

What now?

 

[thehypocrite]

More stuff:

321 432 (acronyms)

 

[thuway]

32 MB is 100% correct . I'll throw in one more:

102 GB/S

 

[GarthVaderUK]

What even is eSRAM? Faster eDRAM? Do you still have to account for tiling and stuff at 1080p?

Don't know if it's relevant but I found this:
http://www.differencebetween.net/technology/difference-between-sram-and-dram/

DRAM requires the data to be refreshed periodically in order to retain the data. SRAM does not need to be refreshed as the transistors inside would continue to hold the data as long as the power supply is not cut off. This behavior leads to a few advantages, not the least of which is the much faster speed that data can be written and read.

The additional circuitry and timing needed to introduce the refresh creates some complications that makes DRAM memory slower and less desirable than SRAM. One complication is the much higher power used by DRAM memory, this difference is very significant in battery powered devices. SRAM modules are also much simpler compared to DRAM, which makes it easier for most people to create an interface to access the memory.

...

Because of its lower price, DRAM has become the mainstream in computer main memory despite being slower and more power hungry compared to SRAM. SRAM memory is still used in a lot of devices where speed is more crucial than capacity. The most prominent use of SRAM is in the cache memory of processors where speed is very essential, and the low power consumption translates to less heat that needs to be dissipated.

 

[AgentP]

How much ram do you need for two 1920 x 1080 frames?

1920*1080*4*2=16.2MB

Of course no game is only going to use two buffers. You need one for depth, maybe 2-4 for MSAA, then more if HDR. You can get to 90MB at 1080P with everything.

360 had 10mb eDRAM
edit: in theory I think those 10mb could do 4xAA on 720p for free.

Yes, with tiling, but most developer avoided this like the plague.

Edit: Found this.

With that in mind let’s consider that either 8:8:8:8 (RGBA) or 10:10:10:2 (FP10), and a 32-bit Z-buffer the backbuffer should take:

63.3 MB for 1080p and 4xMSAA
28.1 MB for 720p and 4xMSAA

and with 16:16:16:16 (FP16), the figures double.

So by next-gen we should have FP16 blending support and a much higher transistor density. If MS wanted to make things really easy for developers, they’d go with the 128MB of eDRAM. It shouldn’t take a leap of faith to think that won’t happen. They sure didn’t make it easy to even do 720p & 2xMSAA this gen. At this point, I would expect 60MB in order to fit 720p, 4xMSAA, FP16.

But with the whole idea of tiling and “forcing” developers to think about implementing it now, MS could easily be hardware-cost-conscious and go with only 30MB at the very least.

They’ll probably implement those variations on FP10 that was discussed briefly in the “HDR the Bungie Way” presentation (i.e. 6e4, 6e5 versus the current 7e3 for FP10), making FP16 seem moot. They may target those instead, and in that way, 30MB seems an “ok” compromise.

It’s a question of diminishing returns. Do we really need to support universal 1080p? Some developers are getting used to tiling now… So perhaps 1080p, 2xMSAA (including CSAA/CFAA, which do not take extra storage), FP10 would be a better storage target (~32MB). But that’s only considering a single RT.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1076665&postcount=6

Edit: I don't think they are going to use the eSRAM like they did the eDRAM. It will probably be more of a read-write cache, so maybe the size isn't a big deal like it was for the 360.

 

[systemfehler]

32MB is enough for 720p and limited to 1080p and 2xFSAA - so not that bad but not a true revolution either depending on the implementation. 360 could only use eDRAM for the back buffer.

For the back buffer 1080p at 4xFSAA = Pixels * FSAA * (Pixel Color Depth + Z Buffer Depth) = 1920x1080x4x(32+32) = 63MB so for that case you would need tiled rendering or reduce FSAA/resolution.

 

[ekim]

32 MB is 100% correct . I'll throw in one more:

102 GB/S

tststs...

 

[aegies]

I think you'll see tesselation in use in everything, more or less, but not to the degree some people are expecting. My understanding is that there are certain challenges, at least in durango's architecture, that will make developers carefully consider where they use it.

 

[Karak]

tststs...

FYI. I saw your PM. I will respond in a bit. Sorry. Back and forth in "work" meetings.

Stupid work.

 

[gofreak]

How much ram do you need for two 1920 x 1080 frames?

Just about 32MB, with no AA.

32MB will fit a 1080p frame with 2xMSAA.

Or a 720p frame with 4xMSAA.

That's assuming 32-bit colour depth, though. 64-bit colour depth would have a commensurate impact on footprint. Maybe we'll see FP10 in use again...

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

This thread is blowing up!

 

[Karak]

Just about 32MB, with no AA.

32MB will fit a 1080p frame with 2xMSAA.

Or a 720p frame with 4xMSAA.

That's assuming 32-bit colour depth, though. 64-bit colour depth would have a commensurate impact on footprint. Maybe we'll see FP10 in use again...

I think FP10 is a given.

 

[derFeef]

More stuff:

321 432 (acronyms)

cba - cant be arsed?
dcb - don't call back?

lol

 

[lightchris]

Since we are talking about PCs here, I thinks this is a very interesting point:



In another thread some guy come up with a theory that today GPUs might not struggle too much with next gen games because of the wattage difference of modern GPUs and the wattage of GPUs in the past.

Any thoughts?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

It's fact that today's high end GPUs use a lot more power than those seven years ago. It's also fact that you'll have trouble in cooling hardware that uses more than 200W in a console sized case.
Conclusion: The GPUs in PS4/720 will not be as powerful as those on a high end graphics card on PC (that's without factoring in the costs).

 

[gofreak]

I think you'll see tesselation in use in everything, more or less, but not to the degree some people are expecting. My understanding is that there are certain challenges, at least in durango's architecture, that will make developers carefully consider where they use it.

That's interesting. I thought for sure the third block was maybe related to better tessellation. Also, another difference in focus from what's been said about Orbis.

 

[Insane Metal]

32 MB is 100% correct . I'll throw in one more:

102 GB/S

WTF? So no 68GB for DDR3? Explain this better, man. lol