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Rumored Chinese Forum Xbox720 specs: 8CoreCPU,8GB,HD8800GPU,W8,640GBHDD

Insane Metal

Insane Metal

Gold Member
I'm inclined to believe that he actually knows something, but he's got just these posts in that one thread and so far has said nothing more than the rumors we already heard.
 
M

Mindlog

Member
My picture is still incomplete. You could throw in Kinect 2 and the Omni Projector for some of the prices that have been hinted at.
 
Clockwork

Clockwork

Member
thuway said:
Ditto. Some of you people are hilarious. 4X MSAA @ 1080p? MSAA is the most brute force, expensive feature available today. I personally like 2XMSAA + High Quality FXAA. That's it. Anymore and you might as well lower the resolution.
Click to expand...

Eh, actually SSAA would be more expensive.
 
I

i-Lo

Member
thuway said:
Ditto. Some of you people are hilarious. 4X MSAA @ 1080p? MSAA is the most brute force, expensive feature available today. I personally like 2XMSAA + High Quality FXAA. That's it. Anymore and you might as well lower the resolution.
Click to expand...

What about MLAA? Is that equally resource intensive as MSAA?
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
thuway said:
32 MB is 100% correct :). I'll throw in one more:

102 GB/S
Click to expand...


Ok, consider me underwhelmed if that is the speed of the ED/ESRAM (I'm making that connection because you raised it right after esram size was mentioned, plus its too high for normal DDR3 ram)

It's too little, and too slow.

Ideally it'd be GDDR5 level at least, and be enough to store plenty of buffers in esram for processing without touching external ram.

10MB was supposed to be enough for 360 until deferred rendering turned up, and I think 32MB would be barely enough on Durango.

If you still end up moving buffers in and put of main memory, then the already limited bandwidth of DDR3 gets squeezed even more.
 
S

systemfehler

Member
colinisation said:
I think the 8GB figure is nonsense, DDR4 is not even in production at CES it was still being validated and what not. Maybe MS got some advanced order or some pre JEDEC certified order but that is a hell of a risk to take for a mass market console that has to be delivered on time. How high would you have to clock DDR3 to get that kind of bandwidth, DDR3 struggles to get above 2Ghz in decent supply quantities as well.

I think 4GB of GDDR5.
Click to expand...

Some people here beg to differ I think.

DDR3 is widely available with 2133MHz, so far the only difference between early DDR4 and DDR3 is power consumption. After DDR4 takes over it gets cheaper and will be available with higher clocks and can be stacked.

Maybe 720 will use 2.5D stacking and DDR3 - I don't know anything. You have to ask around here maybe someone will come forward.
 
Proelite

Proelite

Member
mrklaw said:
Ok, consider me underwhelmed if that is the speed of the ED/ESRAM

It's too little, and too slow.

Ideally it'd be GDDR5 level at least, and be enough to store plenty of buffers in esram for processing without touching external ram.

10MB was supposed to be enough for 360 until deferred rendering turned up, and I think 32MB would be barely enough on Durango.

If you still end up moving buffers in and put of main memory, then the already limited bandwidth of DDR3 gets squeezed even more.
Click to expand...

Won't be a problem, because Microsoft would have system designed to work around the bandwidth issues.
 
S

Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew

Banned
derFeef said:
CU (or CP) DCB

there are acronyms in computing, but none of those make sense to me for the box.
Click to expand...

CU/CP most likely is Central/Control Unit/Processor..

DCB is not decompressing block.

Jtyettis said:
He said GAF is wrong. So it be nice for a little more hint on the RAM side from him.
Click to expand...

Oh I hope so! Everything else is too "advance" for my puny brain. RAM is the only thing I've understood in the past 2 or so years of arguments lol.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
mrklaw said:
Ok, consider me underwhelmed if that is the speed of the ED/ESRAM

It's too little, and too slow.
Click to expand...

It's probably the bandwidth between the GPU and the eDRAM unit...the equivalent of the 32GB/s between the Xenos parent die and daughter die. It'd be a perfect scaling, 3.2x the memory, 3.2x the bandwidth. The internal bandwidth between the ROPs and the eDRAM memory is a different thing and will be as large as you'd expect.
 
iamvin22

iamvin22

Industry Verified
im driving to work in san francisco and i hear over the radio station that the PS4 and next xbox will be revealed soon around gdc.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Proelite said:
Won't be a problem.
Click to expand...

I'm sure things are optimised, but people here were assuming the esram was there to offset the slower DDR3. If there is only 32MB of it, but more importantly if it only has 102Gb/s bandwidth, then that isn't good vs the rumoured 192Gb/s on orbis

gofreak said:
It's probably the bandwidth between the GPU and the eDRAM unit...the equivalent of the 32GB/s between the Xenos parent die and daughter die. It'd be a perfect scaling, 3.2x the memory, 3.2x the bandwidth. The internal bandwidth between the ROPs and the eDRAM memory is a different thing and will be as large as you'd expect.
Click to expand...

Hmm, ok. Plus maybe the blitter comes in somewhere there too.

But that still means your GPU only has half the available bandwidth vs orbis, doesn't it?
 
J

JohnDonut

Banned
Some of you guys saying you want AA and that 2xAA is okay have never wandered into the the high res screenshot thread where they're doing 4xSGSSAA and shit.
 
J

Jadedx

Banned
mrklaw said:
Ok, consider me underwhelmed if that is the speed of the ED/ESRAM

It's too little, and too slow.

Ideally it'd be GDDR5 level at least, and be enough to store plenty of buffers in esram for processing without touching external ram.

10MB was supposed to be enough for 360 until deferred rendering turned up, and I think 32MB would be barely enough on Durango.

If you still end up moving buffers in and put of main memory, then the already limited bandwidth of DDR3 gets squeezed even more.
Click to expand...

That might be the speed of the main memory, because iirc, the speed of the 360's edram is 256GB/s, so I doubt they would lower the speed.
 
Insane Metal

Insane Metal

Gold Member
It could be one of these

DCB Data Center Bridging
DCB Direct Copper Bonding (semiconductor module manufacturing)
DCB Data Control Block
DCB Digital Converter Box
DCB Differential Code Bias
DCB Digital Channel Bank (Sprint)
DCB Directory Cache Buffer
DCB Drum Cleaning Blade (copiers/laser printers; aka Drum Wiper Blade)
DCB Data Communications Backbone
DCB Data Cache Block (computing)
DCB Décimal Codé Binaire (French: Binary Coded Decimal
 
D

derFeef

Member
JohnDonut said:
Some of you guys saying you want AA and that 2xAA is okay have never wandered into the the high res screenshot thread where they're doing 4xSGSSAA and shit.
Click to expand...

Well I play some games downsampled, but I can't hold up the framerate very well when I go that high. Sure is pretty, but I want my 60fps and not spending my money on triple-sli setup :)
 
T

thehypocrite

Member
iamvin22 said:
im driving to work in san francisco and i hear over the radio station that the PS4 and next xbox will be revealed soon around gdc.
Click to expand...



ELHKt.jpg



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjF0uf4H7w8
 
A

Avtomat

Member
systemfehler said:
Some people here beg to differ I think.

DDR3 is widely available with 2133MHz, so far the only difference between early DDR4 and DDR3 is power consumption. After DDR4 takes over it gets cheaper and will be available with higher clocks and can be stacked.

Maybe 720 will use 2.5D stacking and DDR3 - I don't know anything. You have to ask around here maybe someone will come forward.
Click to expand...

DDR3 is available @ 2133Mhz yes but not in quantities required to supply 1 console manufacturer to output 10 million plus consoles a year. The vast majority of DDR3 is supplied at speed below 2000MHz if you try and launch a console which uses high spec DDR3 I guarantee you will run into supply issues as your suppliers will be cherry picking parts for you I am sure not a lot of the chips will be capable of such speed.

As for starting on DDR3 and switching to DDR4 that will take months and a significant redisgn of the memory controller, possibly impact program timings etc. Not something you really want to be doing. Throw in the fact that you will need a wider memory bus to hit such a high bandwidth than a GDDR5 solution and you can see why I would throw out the DDR3/4 logic.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
mrklaw said:
Hmm, ok. Plus maybe the blitter comes in somewhere there too.

But that still means your GPU only has half the available bandwidth vs orbis, doesn't it?
Click to expand...

Well, the ROPs reside on the daughter die.

So they consume the big internal bandwidth anyway. So for buffer operations performed by the ROPs, they have the full run on that bandwidth.

The 102GB/s bus is used by the GPU to send commands and data to the daughter die, and passes along data back from eDRAM to the GPU, to forward to main memory. (Or, at least, that's my guess as to what the 102GB/s refers to).

It should be fine vs the bandwidth in the rest of the system. If you had huge main memory bandwidth I guess theoretically it could become a bottleneck if you were doing some maximal amount of copy-back from eDRAM but you're not going to be doing THAT much.
 
M

madmackem

Member
As our well-placed sources told us last year, custom silicon based on AMD's A8-series APU and HD 7670 GPU will be used in the PlayStation 4, while the Xbox 720 will combine an IBM PowerPC CPU and a custom version of AMD's 6670 GPU.
Click to expand...

Wait what ign?? they say its the custom 6670 mwahhhh not sure about that ign.

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/01/16/next-gen-secrets-allegedly-leaked-to-nvidia-by-former-amd-executives?utm_campaign=ign+main+twitter&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social
 
S

systemfehler

Member
colinisation said:
DDR3 is available @ 2133Mhz yes but not in quantities required to supply 1 console manufacturer to output 10 million plus consoles a year. The vast majority of DDR3 is supplied at speed below 2000MHz if you try and launch a console which uses high spec DDR3 I guarantee you will run into supply issues as your suppliers will be cherry picking parts for you I am sure not a lot of the chips will be capable of such speed.

As for starting on DDR3 and switching to DDR4 that will take months and a significant redisgn of the memory controller, possibly impact program timings etc. Not something you really want to be doing. Throw in the fact that you will need a wider memory bus to hit such a high bandwidth than a GDDR5 solution and you can see why I would throw out the DDR3/4 logic.
Click to expand...

Wait I never would have moved from DDR3 to DDR4 after the launch - but it could be either version in my eyes. I don't know the exact supply situation of DDR3-2133 if I look at the retail market it seems to be quite common but that of course doesn't matter for a console launch. I just searched for combinations that fit the 102GB/s figure (if that is even true) and DDR3-2133 would be one of them although a future die shrink / revision might run into problems with a 384Bit bus.

madmackem said:
Wait what ign?? they say its the custom 6670 mwahhhh not sure about that ign.

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/01/16/next-gen-secrets-allegedly-leaked-to-nvidia-by-former-amd-executives?utm_campaign=ign+main+twitter&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social
Click to expand...

Isn't 7670 and 6670 basicly the same chip? IGN sources, last year, ... hopefully that is just some unbased speculation. Those cards are rated at around 800GFlops not that it matters ;-)
 
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