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[Ding-Ding]

this is brilliant news. now I really do hope they are hard at work on pgr5.

From my understanding, while MS hold the IP rights to PGR, Bizarre Creations kept the rights to the kudos system.

Now that BC are dead, kudos system could now be owned by Activion or maybe somehow retained by a former BC manager (Chudley would be a guess)

Either way I would be surprised if the PGR series returns

 

[Hindle]

Seeing as how MS has less first-party developers this time around, the only way to get exclusive third-party launch titles is to secure them by funding them or $$$ contracts. After a couple of months those games will appear on other consoles.

They have opened two massive studios 343 and Black Tusk. They've spent hundreds of millions on first party development.

 

[JonathanPower]

Essentially it's a 6 core CPU for both consoles then.

We know PS4 Dev kits simulate an 8 core setup though, meaning that Sony's target is to have an 8 core CPU. It is true that both consoles will use the same CPU, however, MS may have decided to disable 1 core to lower the production costs.

 

[specialguy]

We know PS4 Dev kits simulate an 8 core setup though, meaning that Sony's target is to have an 8 core CPU. It is true that both consoles will use the same CPU, however, MS may have decided to disable 1 core to lower the production costs.

Ageis seemed to be referring to PS4 having 1 core disabled? Because Durango already reserves two cores for OS I think...and he said 1 core for OS 1 disabled, so couldn't be Durango.

Thuway hinted at this disabled core thing too. Which, since many gaffers have the same sources and are constantly talking to each, probably shouldn't be surprising LOL.

 

[ALBOFIGHTER]

If exclusives are timed then how are developers supposed to take advantage of each systems unique hardware. It makes no sense

 

[DBT85]

We know PS4 Dev kits simulate an 8 core setup though, meaning that Sony's target is to have an 8 core CPU. It is true that both consoles will use the same CPU, however, MS may have decided to disable 1 core to lower the production costs.

Well, they may well have 8 cores in the dev kits but they could disable one, or use one for the dev purposes or any number of things.

The rumors so far have suggested that both consoles use an 8 core Jaguar. None of them have said 7 functioning cores or anything like that, so at this stage we just don't know.

 

[Jack_AG]

The "it's designed primarily as a DVR" crowd are going to look really dumb. Or rather, they would, if the internet had any sort of memory for stupid things people say and stupid assumptions they make before consoles launch. Which it really doesn't.

I don't think they are wrong with being concerned especially if they are core gamers who dont care for fluff. Fluff is OK and its great sometimes but that fluff means you spread your resources thinner over the broader range. Some people who are just concerned with gaming believe that resources are being drawn away from that aspect and pooled for the whole. Its a legitimate concern. The "jack of all trades" isnt often the best approach and often leaves much to be desired in multiple areas.

I personally dont think it will be an issue for Durango - I think it will be a very nice device on the gaming front but I do think Sony has been setting themselves up during this gen for the upcoming gen, from a gaming perspective.

People see how much Sony has put into buying studios and launching new IPs and gearing up for next gen vs MS who seems more focused on delivering an everything box - die-hard XBOX fans might be concerned.

Again - that's not how I see it but I keep an open mind. I think MS will do fine this gen in the gaming dept.

At least I think that's how some people are seeing it... I could be wrong and they could really just be stupid/trolling.

/shrug

 

[Ding-Ding]

Ageis seemed to be referring to PS4 having 1 core disabled? Because Durango already reserves two cores for OS I think...and he said 1 core for OS 1 disabled, so couldn't be Durango.

Thuway hinted at this disabled core thing too. Which, since many gaffers have the same sources and are constantly talking to each, probably shouldn't be surprising LOL.

I think both consoles are likely to have a core disabled because of yield

 

[specialguy]

Well, they may well have 8 cores in the dev kits but they could disable one, or use one for the dev purposes or any number of things.

The rumors so far have suggested that both consoles use an 8 core Jaguar. None of them have said 7 functioning cores or anything like that, so at this stage we just don't know.

theres been a few hints for people who follow the rumor scene super closely like me lol.

probably something we may not know till much closer to final or they may not have decided yet etc. something that wont be nailed down for sure until later.

I think both consoles are likely to have a core disabled because of yield

would seem odd if one did and one didnt. so far i've only heard reference to ps4 though.

durango could be down to "only" 5 cores if one disabled, 2 OS.

 

[DBT85]

I think both consoles are likely to have a core disabled because of yield

Is this because we know that Jaguar yields are going to be low if you want 8 core? or because we expect the same thing to happen that happened with the Cell?

Do we know what AMDs yields are like for other processors?

theres been a few hints for people who follow the rumor scene super closely like me lol.

Sorry I was referring to the websites that have posted leaks, not the comments by some posters here.

I've seen some of the comments you are referring to but I don't know if those are just suspicions based on the same thing happening with the Cell (no idea if it happened to the 360 CPU) or based on whiperings they have heard. I expect the former though.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

What are Ruffian doing? Crackdown 3 would be a nice surprise.

 

[abadguy]

I don't think they are wrong with being concerned especially if they are core gamers who dont care for fluff. Fluff is OK and its great sometimes but that fluff means you spread your resources thinner over the broader range. Some people who are just concerned with gaming believe that resources are being drawn away from that aspect and pooled for the whole. Its a legitimate concern. The "jack of all trades" isnt often the best approach and often leaves much to be desired in multiple areas.

I personally dont think it will be an issue for Durango - I think it will be a very nice device on the gaming front but I do think Sony has been setting themselves up during this gen for the upcoming gen, from a gaming perspective.

People see how much Sony has put into buying studios and launching new IPs and gearing up for next gen vs MS who seems more focused on delivering an everything box - die-hard XBOX fans might be concerned.

Again - that's not how I see it but I keep an open mind. I think MS will do fine this gen in the gaming dept.

At least I think that's how some people are seeing it... I could be wrong and they could really just be stupid/trolling.

/shrug

But for some odd reason people keep ignoring all the new first party studios MS has been starting.

 

[Karak]

or it'll be a lot of timed dlc really.

which this gen seemed to mostly favor microsoft moneyhats.

even timed (full title) exclusives are extremely rare if not nonexistent anymore.

edit: 468k views on this thread. people are getting really interested in next gen. these type of threads used to be also rans with maybe 30k views...

Next gen will always be the new hotness

But for some odd reason people keep ignoring all the new first party studios MS has been starting.

Might not be ignoring it as much as taking a wait and see mentality.

 

[JonathanPower]

Ageis seemed to be referring to PS4 having 1 core disabled? Because Durango already reserves two cores for OS I think...and he said 1 core for OS 1 disabled, so couldn't be Durango.

Thuway hinted at this disabled core thing too. Which, since many gaffers have the same sources and are constantly talking to each, probably shouldn't be surprising LOL.

According to VGleaks, these are the specs of the Soc based Devkit for PS4, which should have the final silicon.

Available January 2013

CPU: 8-core Jaguar
GPU: Liverpool GPU
RAM: unified 8 GB for devkit (4 GB for the retail console)
Subsystem: HDD, Network Controller, BD Drive, Bluetooth Controller, WLAN and HDMI (up to 1980×1080@3D)
Analog Outputs: Audio, Composite Video
Connection to Host: USB 3.0 (targeting over 200 MB/s),
ORBIS Dualshock
Dual Camera

In the specs it's reported the different amount of ram for the retail console, but there is no mention of a 7 core CPU being used for retail consoles. Thus, I think Sony's target for retail consoles is an 8 core CPU.

 

[derFeef]

What are Ruffian doing? Crackdown 3 would be a nice surprise.

3 year fleshed out Crackdown? Yeah please.

edit: why do I see Orbis rumor devkit specs on almost every page? We know them inside out now.

 

[Ushae]

Any word on Destiny in relation to Durango, any rumours about timed exclusivity?

 

[Can Crusher]

In the specs it's reported the different amount of ram for the retail console, but there is no mention of a 7 core CPU for the retail console.

Lol, of course not dummy ;P

The idea is that yield problems will deactivate a core, and one core will be used for OS purposes.

Thus, a 6 core machine essentially.

 

[Ding-Ding]

Is this because we know that Jaguar yields are going to be low if you want 8 core? or because we expect the same thing to happen that happened with the Cell?

Do we know what AMDs yields are like for other processors?

I'm not much of a tech bod i'm afraid so i'm sure there are much better people to explain, especially on AMD's history in yields

So its just an assumption that it will be a move just to offset defective chips. It just makes more cost sense for consoles to disable one, rather than chuck away a faulty die.

Sure, either MS or Sony can risk it to go for an advantage over the other but not without financial risks.

If rumours are true that it will be a 2 core OS for Durango and 1 core for Orbis, I can see Sony definitely disabling a core and MS might accept die losses

 

[Jack_AG]

But for some odd reason people keep ignoring all the new first party studios MS has been starting.

They don't hit the news as much, sadly. Sony made a lot of missteps this gen so everyone's eyes were on them looking for news. I still stand by what I said earlier that I think Durango will be fine even though it seems like MS are spreading themselves thin. Durango will be great, everyone just needs to relax.

 

[Gordon0Freeman]

Any word on Destiny in relation to Durango, any rumours about timed exclusivity?

The first game MIGHT be a next gen exclusive or timed exclusive. But who really knows since the Activision/Bungie contract is almost 3 years old, things may of changed. Activision loves money and Microsoft has money just look how Activ. caters to Xbox with COD. So expect the same with Destiny and "Marathon."

 

[specialguy]

They don't hit the news as much, sadly. Sony made a lot of missteps this gen so everyone's eyes were on them looking for news. I still stand by what I said earlier that I think Durango will be fine even though it seems like MS are spreading themselves thin. Durango will be great, everyone just needs to relax.

lol good luck with that.

 

[DBT85]

I'm not much of a tech bod i'm afraid so i'm sure there are much better people to explain, especially on AMD's history in yields

So its just an assumption that it will be a move just to offset defective chips. It just makes more cost sense for consoles to disable one, rather than chuck away a faulty die.

Sure, either MS or Sony can risk it to go for an advantage over the other but not without financial risks.

If rumours are true that it will be a 2 core OS for Durango and 1 core for Orbis, I can see Sony definitely disabling a core and MS might accept die losses

Oh I know that it happens and why, my 6950 prancing around as a 6970 is an example of it.

I just don't know what AMDs yields are like on these processors, or those like them or even if it is the processor part itself that might cause the issues rather than any changes or additions, eg the ESRAM for Microsoft.

 

[Baconsammy]

I don't think they are wrong with being concerned especially if they are core gamers who dont care for fluff. Fluff is OK and its great sometimes but that fluff means you spread your resources thinner over the broader range.

Microsoft adding HBO Go did nothing to stop EA, Activision, Square etc etc from making games. It doesn't ever hinder Microsoft's own studios from making games. Adding services on a platform with as much diverse support as the 360 doesn't impede game development. Kinect, on the other hand, does when/if the device is an unshipped peripheral. Stuff like DVR functionality, Skype etc just mean more functionality, not fewer games.

 

[Can Crusher]

- the alpha kit has 8 core with 16 hardware threads@1.6 ghz while the Durango has 8
- the alpha kit has 2.5 TF GPU while Durango has 1.2
- the supposedly 60 Gb/s memory needs a 256 bit controller which would be an overkill for this APU
- there is a data move engine which nobody knows what it is doing
- there was a twitter post from a Crytek guy (which was deleted later btw) who attended the Durango info meeting says this is like a box with two computer in it...
- there was a Microsoft leaked document which has the dates of their coming products until 2015 basically includes not one but two Xboxes...

Is that for real?

 

[JonathanPower]

Lol, of course not dummy ;P

The idea is that yield problems will deactivate a core, and one core will be used for OS purposes.

Thus, a 6 core machine essentially.

One would think that Sony knows what yield problems are. If they didn't target for an 8 core setup, it should have been already mentioned in the leaked specs.

 

[DBT85]

Is that for real?

I could see that maybe referring to one 3GB 2 core machine and one 5gb 6 core machine. Not actually split up, but seperated. One "computer" and one games console.

 

[iMax]

What are Ruffian doing? Crackdown 3 would be a nice surprise.

They're working on multiple projects, I believe. They're not Microsoft owned — but Crackdown is.

Is that for real?

Yes and no. The tweet said "Enjoying the Durango developers summit in London. So far, great swag and interesting talks."

 

[Jadedx]

Is that for real?

If anything I think that might refer to the setup from the original leaked docs with the durango soc, the second media cpu/gpu and the xenon cpu.

 

[Can Crusher]

One would think that Sony knows what yield problems are. If they didn't target for an 8 core setup, it should have been already mentioned in the leaked specs.

It's really not that simple, both MS and Sony targeted that 8 core cpu, and yield problems would have to be resolved till february at the latest.

Yes and no. The tweet said "Enjoying the Durango developers summit in London. So far, great swag and interesting talks."

Fertile imagination I see.

 

[RoboPlato]

Is that for real?

That point isn't real and the first two points are standard for devkits trying to emulate customized parts before the silicon is finalized.

 

[aegies]

It's really not that simple, both MS and Sony targeted that 8 core cpu, and yield problems would have to be resolved till february at the latest.



Fertile imagination I see.

I hear that at least one of them already has final hardware in test.

 

[Cuth]

Ageis seemed to be referring to PS4 having 1 core disabled? Because Durango already reserves two cores for OS I think...and he said 1 core for OS 1 disabled, so couldn't be Durango.

Thuway hinted at this disabled core thing too. Which, since many gaffers have the same sources and are constantly talking to each, probably shouldn't be surprising LOL.

Aegies said 1 core and 1,5 GB of RAM reserved for OS on Durango.

 

[Jadedx]

Seeing as how MS has less first-party developers this time around, the only way to get exclusive third-party launch titles is to secure them by funding them or $$$ contracts. After a couple of months those games will appear on other consoles.

Again, this is false, MS has more first party developers than Sony now, 20 to 13.


Edit: If both are using the same cpu made by the same manufacturer why would only one need to disable a core. Also this talk about 2 cores and 3gb being needed for the OS is nonsense and needs to stop. Full blown windows 8 requires a single 1ghz cpu 2gb of ram for x64 to run and that has to support tons of legacy software. Durango is a closed system it will not need that much cpu and ram 1, core, 1.5gb at most.

 

[mrklaw]

I think both consoles are likely to have a core disabled because of yield

Pathway sounds weird though. Aren't jaguars cheap ass atom-style cores? Considering potential edram and big GPUs, the CPU section of the die will be tiny and surely less of a yield concern than the rest of it? And considering how lightweight they are, I'd want every flop I could get out of them.

 

[specialguy]

Aegies said 1 core and 1,5 GB of RAM reserved for OS on Durango.

did he? aegeis can you confirm?

because the common rumor is 2 cores and 3gb...

also aegeis, which machine did you mean might have one core disabled for yield?

 

[RoboPlato]

did he? ageis can you confirm?

because the common rumor is 2 cores and 3gb...

also, which machine did you mean might have one core disabled for yield?

That was an old goal number. I think the most up to date info we have is that it's 2 cores and less than 3gb but not much lower. I expect at least the RAM number to come down before launch.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

Again, this is false, MS has more first party developers than Sony now, 20 to 13.

Number of studios means very little anyway in terms of next gen. Some of Sony's will be working on Vita titles, and some of Microsoft's are family/Kinect/Mobile studios. It is true though that I'd say their internal studios are stronger now than at the launch of the 360 assuming the start-ups release quality new IP's.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I hear that at least one of them already has final hardware in test.

Got to be Durango only because Microsoft always seems to have their ish together more than Sony on scheduling.

 

[Can Crusher]

I hear that at least one of them already has final hardware in test.

Which one?

Got to be Durango only because Microsoft always seems to have there ish together more than Sony on scheduling.

Rumors spoke of bigger yield issues on Durango.

But really, it could be either of the two.

 

[LifEndz]

or it'll be a lot of timed dlc really.

which this gen seemed to mostly favor microsoft moneyhats.

even timed (full title) exclusives are extremely rare if not nonexistent anymore.

edit: 468k views on this thread. people are getting really interested in next gen. these type of threads used to be also rans with maybe 30k views...

I agree with this. No 3rd party company is going to want to miss out on selling their game to an installed base...especially if both machines launch at the same time. We'll probably see more timed exclusive levels, guns or skins. Don't think we'll ever see a big 3rd party game opt for timed exclusivity or permanent exclusivity for either MS or Sony's next-gen console.

 

[RoboPlato]

Got to be Durango only because Microsoft always seems to have their ish together more than Sony on scheduling.

My guess as well although Sony seems to have speed things up a lot in the past few weeks.

 

[specialguy]

Got to be Durango only because Microsoft always seems to have their ish together more than Sony on scheduling.

Yeah if Durango beta kits with all the final silicon apparently are out, they are way ahead of schedule.

Which might not be a good thing as it probably helps that they arent pushing performance envelopes.

360 kits with Xenos went out like a couple months before the machine hit shelves if I recall! Thats one reason most launch games looked crap, the dev kits were literally like half as powerful.

 

[Cuth]

did he? aegeis can you confirm?

because the common rumor is 2 cores and 3gb...

also aegeis, which machine did you mean might have one core disabled for yield?

Now that I think about it, I'm not so sure anymore... :/
It's possibile that was said by Karak, not aegies. I'll try to search the post.

 

[ZaCH3000]

did he? aegeis can you confirm?

because the common rumor is 2 cores and 3gb...

also aegeis, which machine did you mean might have one core disabled for yield?

I wouldn't doubt Aegeis's logic on this. However, he can't confirm anything because he's simply making a logical conclusion, one that I support. Although, 1.5GB for an OS seems like an out of place number, so I'm going to say between 1.5GB-2GB of RAM and 1 core will be reserved for the OS, and 1GB of RAM and 1 core will be reserved for Kinect.

 

[Can Crusher]

Aegies said he heard. Draw your own conclusions from that.

 

[aegies]

did he? aegeis can you confirm?

because the common rumor is 2 cores and 3gb...

also aegeis, which machine did you mean might have one core disabled for yield?

The 3GB of RAM for OS is crap. That's what I'm told by people who have proven to be reliable. So is the two cores dedicated to OS.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

How do Microsoft's first party studios compare to Sony's from a talent perspective? I heard halo 4 looks good but haven't really heard about anything else. I honestly stopped paying attention to xbox along time ago.

 

[Kun Aguero]

Re yields. A noob question, why would one encounter yield issues and the other not when they are both using the same chip?

 

[Ding-Ding]

Rumors spoke of bigger yield issues on Durango.

But really, it could be either of the two.

Wasn't that yield issue to do when some expected them to have a IBM chip (I could be mistaken)

If im wrong, I still think Pachter was behind that "leak". So it was probably nonsense to begin with

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

How do Microsoft's first party studios compare to Sony's from a talent perspective? I heard halo 4 looks good but haven't really heard about anything else. I honestly stopped paying attention to xbox along time ago.

Well first party to first party its not really a contest. Microsoft should just keep doing what they did with 360 and pay for 3rd party timed exclusives and produce a couple AAA exclusive titles while focusing on the console with the superior social atmosphere and they will be doing just dandy.