1.23 versus 1.84!!
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VGLeaks rumor: Durango CPU Overview
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
1.23 versus 1.84!!
Galacticos
Banned
Seriously though, as per every other generation I suggest you all wait until you see and then actually play the games, I'm not down playing the fact that PS4 can leverage more power than Durango according to specs, but thats does nothing for me if I want to play say PGR5 (hopefully) or the next Halo.
dragonelite
Member
If it means that ps4 can have 2xMsaa on 1080p vs Durango 1080p only. Is already a big difference. And considering how popular digital foundry comparisons are next gen will not make durango stands well.
But then we have that EA guy said that both consoles are comparable in performance.
So maybe the extra stuff in durango can offset it by making the difference only 10% between the ps4.
Dam i hope some stuff leaks this week from the internal microsoft presentation.
April is to far away.
Even for first party games, I think a Durango GPU in the PS4 ballpark range would greatly help them.
Nah. According to the leaked slide (The Durango conference one with the "100% GPU efficiency", 1080p 2XMSAA should not be a problem on Durango.
Galacticos
Banned
Even if the PS4 version is better, Digital Foundry would probably still say "buy the 720 version".
My point is that the Gamecube version of Chaos Theory was closer to the PS2 version despite having specs more similar to the Xbox. It's pretty well known that Chaos Theory was developed for the Xbox + PC and then ported down (poorly) to the other consoles so it's not a great example to use.
oldergamer
Member
The people in this thread arguing that PS4 will have better visual are clearly wrong. I posted about this before. Both systems have the same graphics hardware and same CPU, both gpu's are capable of EXACTLY the same FX. It's even closer then it was with PS3 and 360 ( nvidia vs ATI as both had different ways and methods that were used to handle graphics.)
the only differences we will see are:
resolution
frame-rate
That's pretty much it. if one system can render the same but slower it will drop down in resolution. look at a PC. is there really a difference between a 7980 and a 7970 other then speed? they both can render exactly the same stuff, but one would use a lower resolution to keep up.
More power is alway good ,well dependent on cost, however I still say wait till you see the games!
gaming_noob
Member
What is this based on?
Ok, now I'm confused... for you better res or fps not means better visual?
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Going by the rumors they both don't have the same graphics hardware.
PS4: 18 Shader Cores, 1152 Ops/clock and 32 ROPS.
720: 12 Shader Cores, 768 Ops/clock and 16 ROPS.
To the people going on about resolution... For 30fps games, 1080p should be the minimum.
You will see a greater difference in performance before we see start seeing dropped resolution for both consoles if things pan out the way the Vgleaks rumors state.
Durango is made with 1080p gaming in mind.
If you render at a lower resolution then you are not rendering the exact same stuff.
Not sure if serious with this post all. You're wrong. The constant post saying they're the same when they are not. Again stop using a PC setup as a reference.
dead monkey uk
Member
Cheap shot, which is not even true.
persecution complex is highly contagious
You're wrong but let's just go with your theory for a second. Let's say the ps4 becomes the lead platform and mid way through the gen as devs start pushing these systems to the max a game is created that runs 720p, 30fps on ps4. That would mean the game would be sub-hd and 20fps on Durango. How is that acceptable to anyone in a next gen console?
These systems are releasing at the same time and using the same companies for their components. There is absolutely no legitimate reason in my eyes why Durango shouldn't match the ps4 in power.
That's just impossible.
The only reason PS3/360 was close because the Cell in the PS3 was powerful enough to leverage the GPU tasks from Xenos.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
People need to also consider the OS drain on the graphical capabilities.
3GB memory and 2 CPU cores reserved for the OS on Durango makes the gap quite significant between the two.
But I do think NextBox will have games at the unveiling that look in the same ballpark, visually, as what we saw on 20th Feb. So from that p.o.v, the power difference won't matter to some.
3GB memory and 2 CPU cores reserved for the OS on Durango makes the gap quite significant between the two.
But I do think NextBox will have games at the unveiling that look in the same ballpark, visually, as what we saw on 20th Feb. So from that p.o.v, the power difference won't matter to some.
Ol No Bones
Banned
People assume too much about the Xbox.
It's the Xbox, a console by history known for not delivering low power GPUs (compared to the competition) on release.
If you take two identical PCs,
one with Pitcairn with (PS4: 18 Shader Cores, 1152 Ops/clock and 32 ROPS.)
one with Cape Verde with (720: 12 Shader Cores, 768 Ops/clock and 16 ROPS)
what would be the expected benchmark results? I know apples and oranges maybe, but how would they bench compared to each other?
Brad Grenz
Member
Look at it this way. Getting 50% more shader power and twice the fill rate on a PC usually doubles the price of a videocard. That's basically what you get when you go from a $250 card to a $400 card. Hell, that's about what you get when you go from a $500 card to the new $1000 Titans from nVidia.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Why? The only precedent being the Xbox? 360 - PS3 were more or less equal in terms of power and Xbox was more powerful than PS2 because it released much later.
This is the first time they've released a console at the same time, there's no precedent at all to suggest MS couldn't possibly release a console that's slightly underpowered. Thinking like that is idiotic.
The 3GB for the OS figure is absolutely ludicrous and I can't believe that people are still throwing it around as though it's fact. If anyone can come up with anything that would require that much memory, go ahead, but otherwise I'm going to have a hard time taking it seriously.
It's really the GPU by past history.
CPU, Bandwidth, and RAM amounts are not bound by past history.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
The closest i can think of would be 7770 vs 7850
7770: 10 Shader cores, 16 ROPS, 1.28TF Card
7850 16 Shader Cores 32 ROPS, 1.76TF Card
This closes the gap between the two a little as it's 10 vs 16 rather than 12 vs 18, as can be seen by the TF count.
While close, this comparison is crude: see: http://www.hwcompare.com/12033/radeon-hd-7770-vs-radeon-hd-7850/
The problem with this is the 7770 above is clocked at 1000Mhz rather than the expected 800Mhz, there are no direct comparisons I can find that are a closer approximation however.
I think, and this is the only logical conclusion i can draw, that by 3GB for OS he means 3GB reserved for the OS and other applications/services
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
I'm only going by what Eurogamer's DF said - who cited 'two sources' informed them that this was the case. It's in their first Durango analysis.
Also, there was another site that quoted this figure I can't recall.
Dare I say it - it certainly looks more likely than not, seeing as Eurogamer has been pretty spot on so far.
Non of us have any idea what it will be needed for.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Yes, certainly it's unlikely it'll just be for the OS. I meant OS/other functions and whatever Kinect stuff MSFT is planning.
UnluckyKate
Member
Anyone else heard from devs that they double a specific part of the hardware prior to Sony annoucement ? Or is it already " public " knowledge ?
No the common belief is that MS would not have changed their specs at all. No downclocking. No upclocking. Nadda.
BTW... Were you told this? Or are you repeating BClifford's post on B3d?
I think it would be more relevant if you post a table which indicates performance at 1980 x 1080 (or 1200) only since it's the resolution most games will be aiming for
The difference is pretty much the same at 1920x1200. Since we're not even certain that games will actually be running at 1080p, might as well link this.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Edge said specifically the Sony were trying to match Durango's 8GB ram several days before PS Meeting.
If that is what you are referring to...
Well for one it allows you to fill more buffers, or use AA with less of a hit.
Yea this is all I found but that 7770 is also clocked to 1000Mhz:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/536?vs=549
UnluckyKate
Member
A friend from a PS3 dev. They were talking the dev kit and it appears that Durango would match the PS3 8gb because MS fear the public freak out over " the ps4 as twice more ram "
Not sure. I'm refering to a conversation that happened after the PS meeting, it appears to be a reaction to that
So if one were to normalize the data then
7850 100%
7770 66%
33% difference in performance?
Or as Sony will bring it: "Our console is 50% more powerful than the competitor."
Brad Grenz
Member
50% more, or 33% less.
dragonelite
Member
Let me see if im right.
Fillrate = ROPS * hz
16 * 800Mhz = 12.8 GPixel/s
32 * 800Mhz = 25.6 GPixel/s
1920 * 1080 = 2073600 pixels per frame.
2073600 / 100.000.000 = 0.0020736 GPixel per frame.
For a 60fps using only one rendertarget of 1920 * 1080.
0.0020736 * 60(as in fps) = 0.124416 GPixel/s
You can fill 102 rendertargets of 1920*1080.
So yeah 32 Rops is probably over kill for 1080p for gaming.
Edit: But 16 rops for durango seems to fit well with 24fps 4k movies.
And 32 rops is useful for sony if they are releasing 48fps 4k or 3D 4k tv sets.
Whoa... This is very big if true.
Your post and this:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1715919&postcount=1675
The thing going around is "double" of what we know.
Durango hardware (Specs we know) should target 4K movies as well.