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[JohnsonUT]

We did it! We get to decide how other people spend other peoples' money!

More accurate?

 

[Aquamarine]

That's a very good write up. Given that rumors about her being a millionaire are just speculation I'd have to give her the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps this is just a perfect storm and she made this thing with good intentions.

Never-the-less her kickstarter should simply be shut down, as it's against the TOS. We shouldn't have to wonder what will happen to 20k that should never have been allowed to be given in the first place.

I feel like no matter how much she tries to sweep the issues under the rug and make herself as the "innocent victim," her Kickstarter still violates basic Kickstarter guidelines, and no amount of apologies / kissing up will change that.

It's very, very bad form for Kickstarter to tacitly support a project that obviously violates its self-imposed guidelines, and the project should be removed out of principle.

 

[RangerBAD]

I feel like no matter how much she tries to sweep the issues under the rug and make herself as the "innocent victim," her Kickstarter still violates basic Kickstarter guidelines, and no amount of apologies / kissing up will change that.

It's very, very bad form for Kickstarter to tacitly support a project that obviously violates its self-imposed guidelines, and the project should be removed out of principle.

Which will only harm Kickstarter's credibility in the long run.

 

[Portugeezer]

A normal person wouldn't give it away, and they certainly wouldn't ask "4chan" for ideas.

 

[theSlacker]

A normal person wouldn't give it away, and they certainly wouldn't ask "4chan" for ideas.

I really hope she just doesn't understand what she is trying to do with that one.

 

[dukeoflegs]

I thought it was odd she didn't include the cost of RPG Maker in the original $829 kickstarter (doesn't matter now that she raised 20k), but how was Kenzie suppose to create the game after completing the camp? Unless the camp buys you a copy of the game.

 

[chickdigger802]

I feel like no matter how much she tries to sweep the issues under the rug and make herself as the "innocent victim," her Kickstarter still violates basic Kickstarter guidelines, and no amount of apologies / kissing up will change that.

It's very, very bad form for Kickstarter to tacitly support a project that obviously violates its self-imposed guidelines, and the project should be removed out of principle.

Which makes it a bit odd that all the hate and death threats are going to her. It's ks's fault for accepting this.

 

[OverBlood 3]

Why would she ask 4chan of all sites, how to spend the money?

Give it to the camp she's sending her daughter as a scholarship type fund, the next however many people that apply get in for free or whatever. That or just give it to me.

 

[Spwn]

I'll be the cynic and say she is just trying saving her face with the goodwill gesture of reaching out Internet communities for advice on how to spend the extra money. This project got so much exposure that she can't just run with the money anymore. I'm disappointed Kickstarter turn a blind eye to their own terms to make a statement in gender politics.

 

[foobarry81]

Why would she ask 4chan of all sites, how to spend the money?

Give it to the camp she's sending her daughter as a scholarship type fund, the next however many people that apply get in for free or whatever. That or just give it to me.

So they´d shut up. If they´re involved, they can´t complain anymore, right?

 

[theSlacker]

Why would she ask 4chan of all sites, how to spend the money?

Give it to the camp she's sending her daughter as a scholarship type fund, the next however many people that apply get in for free or whatever. That or just give it to me.

I think it is better that if anyone is asked that question, where she should spend the money, the response should be that it isn't their place to say. The main problem has always been how this is an abuse of kickstarter, and against their tos.

 

[Pinko Marx]

Shits just getting real surreal now.

 

[Kelas]

Yeah asking 4chan/reddit seems super stupid considering it's the backer's money she's spending. This whole thing is a big mess. I wish KS had just told her to re-do it, let her make her apology for being naive and come back with something a bit more honest. If there's one thing she takes away from this, it's that whole honesty thing. When you start a project looking for crowd funding (read: other people's money), you need to approach it a bit more earnestly than you would a typical marketing plan.

 

[Mr. Bubble]

A little creepy, that.

 

[foobarry81]

Eeek! ;-)

 

[Arkham]

Fuck that picture scares me.

We should all be thankful that her gums are sheathed in that pic. Phew.

 

[Kaedryl]

I'll be the cynic and say she is just trying saving her face with the goodwill gesture of reaching out Internet communities for advice on how to spend the extra money. This project got so much exposure that she can't just run with the money anymore. I'm disappointed Kickstarter turn a blind eye to their own terms to make a statement in gender politics.

^^ This ^^

This is strictly a save face and make her look better move. She knows no matter how things play out, she'll be watched like a hawk so is shifting focus from Kenzie and her laptop to how to spend the extra money.

If she was truly sincere about this and her concern for her daughter, she would cancel the KS, post an update that she's moving it to another funding site and start over. This would do several things:

1) stop the arguments that this is against KS guidelines - which it is
2) Allow KS an out since the company is screwed either way
3) Make this more of a positive story for her and likely would garnish her MORE support - I still think she's slimy but what can you do

After reading her posts, tweets, etc...I doubt she'll take this route but it would be a win/win for her in the long run.

 

[foobarry81]

Yeah asking 4chan/reddit seems super stupid considering it's the backer's money she's spending. This whole thing is a big mess. I wish KS had just told her to re-do it, let her make her apology for being naive and come back with something a bit more honest. If there's one thing she takes away from this, it's that whole honesty thing. When you start a project looking for crowd funding (read: other people's money), you need to approach it a bit more earnestly than you would a typical marketing plan.

Given that this is her second KS project and that she has her own crowd funding website, does that mean she´s a hard learner?

 

[Shinta]

Well I posted my personal response, not as a representative of anyone but myself. It's still kind of surreal that she ended up commenting on my small, personal Destructoid blog.

I'm still honestly not sure what to think about the whole situation, but I felt I should say something.

 

[Kelas]

Given that this is her second KS project and that she has her own crowd funding website, does that mean she´s a hard learner?

Sure, but KS let it pass, so it could certainly be easy to think you did nothing wrong if you get the thumbs up.

 

[Tylahedras]

I'm starting to get pissed off that Kickstarter hasn't responded to this, they have had a HUGE amount of emails and comments stacked on this and plenty of time to explain themselves. Their silence makes them look like they are complicit.

Even if this were a total misunderstanding and this lady was just deluded and really thought this was a good idea, that doesn't excuse kickstarter for not taking it down, nor responding to the criticism levied at this.

If kickstarter believes this does NOT break their TOS I want to hear them say so and they better have a damn good explanation. If it does break their TOS then they should have taken this down long ago.

By not responding they are telling us that random people on the internet are more concerned about their rules being followed and their users being scammed then they are. Disgusting.

 

[Aquamarine]

I'm starting to get pissed off that Kickstarter hasn't responded to this, they have had a HUGE amount of emails and comments stacked on this and plenty of time to explain themselves. Their silence makes them look like they are complicit.

Even if this were a total misunderstanding and this lady was just deluded and really thought this was a good idea, that doesn't excuse kickstarter for not taking it down, nor responding to the criticism levied at this.

If kickstarter believes this does NOT break their TOS I want to hear them say so and they better have a damn good explanation. If it does break their TOS then they should have taken this down long ago.

By not responding they are telling us that random people on the internet are more concerned about their rules being followed and their users being scammed then they are. Disgusting.

Kickstarter have officially responded to it. In their official response, they completely ignore the violations and approve of the project.

Kickstarter is a funding platform for creative projects. The goal of this project is to create a video game, which backers are offered for a $10 pledge. On Kickstarter backers ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it.

 

[Portugeezer]

Yeah asking 4chan/reddit seems super stupid considering it's the backer's money she's spending. This whole thing is a big mess. I wish KS had just told her to re-do it, let her make her apology for being naive and come back with something a bit more honest. If there's one thing she takes away from this, it's that whole honesty thing. When you start a project looking for crowd funding (read: other people's money), you need to approach it a bit more earnestly than you would a typical marketing plan.

Exactly, she knows she fucked up with this Kickstarter.

 

[voodoopanda]

Are the "fund my life" guidelines about aspects of the Kickstarter or the sole purpose of the Kickstarter? For example, it says you can't use it to pay tuition or buy a new camera. Now does that mean a Kickstarter that is just "Buy Me A New Camera," or any kind of Kickstarter that would involve buying a camera? The first seems more likely to be prohibited and might be why Kickstarter doesn't see this as breaking the guidelines.

Because I have to imagine many of the successful Kickstarters, including one's for making games, have been used to buy equipment to create whatever the end product is. There's a bunch of movie Kickstarters too that I imagine a good amount of the donations went towards equipment like cameras. The same could go for hiring employees and any kind of necessary job training etc. If we assume that the guidelines means you cannot use the money to buy a new camera at all, or other similar equipment, to create your project, then I think most Kickstarters would have to be considered to have broken that guideline.

So maybe since the goal of this campaign is to make an RPG, funding can support the things needed to achieve that goal such as a laptop or summer camp or whatever? That seems in line with most other Kickstarters and is probably why Kickstarter doesn't see that as a reason to stop it.

 

[Muku]

Keep Up is a registered trademark of Marc Ecko Enterprises.

The name of their head lawyer is Gregg Donnenfeld. I cannot turn up his number or his e-mail address, but here is his LinkedIn Profile.

So if anyone thinks they should know about their trademark being violated, do as you must.

Kickstarter shut down the Kaiju Combat page just based on the IP infringement claim of Wizards of the Coast, and did not even attempt to mediate or hear the developer's side. This should be a pretty open-and-shut case, given that the exact same phrase is being used on the backer rewards and the trademark specifically applies to t-shirts.

I wonder if this information has been passed elsewhere as well. She's a small fry, and I dunno if they'd give a crap about her. I almost feel like she was trying to build a brand, but as an entrepreneur I can't believe she'd be dumb enough to be infringing on a trademark owned by someone else. Though, either way, if holder of trademark wants to keep it without others infringing, I guess you do gotta stop all folks you can to keep it. But if she is, that was pretty horrific. I get a feeling she was just testing the water. But still, wonder if this information has been thrown out there and someone is already on it.

At this point, I'm going to agree with the cynic. I'm inclined to believe she is only apologizing and admitting to some rule breaking to save face. Not sure if she realizes it, but the internet is a powerful tool. Maybe with this though she's learned that. And I don't support those sending her threats, but, does go to show what you can dig up on a person.

If she really wants to instill good values and all in her kids, she should teach them. And I don't mean give them a lesson in crowd sourcing. I mean take the issue at hand and resolve it in real life. Mackenzie wants to go to camp and prove her brothers wrong? Good. Go to the store and buy materials and open up a lemonade stand. She'll learn a lot more from that than simply begging on the internet.

 

[Gully State]

So Kickstarter TOS....

 

[Tylahedras]

Kickstarter have officially responded to it. In their official response, they completely ignore the violations and approve of the project.

Game over. Kickstarter just earned a very vocal detractor.

 

[chickdigger802]

Kickstarter have officially responded to it. In their official response, they completely ignore the violations and approve of the project.

Is KS generally strict on rules? I mean they fold over to lawsuits, but how about other rules? Or are these more 'guidelines'?

 

[Xanathus]

Kickstarter have officially responded to it. In their official response, they completely ignore the violations and approve of the project.

Sounds like a loophole in their rules which allows anyone to make a fund-my-life KS, intended or otherwise. Give me a million bucks for me to spend on food, rent, luxuries (ahem I mean operational expenses) and I'll produce an MS-Paint of a dick-butt.

 

[moka]

I leave for a couple of hours and the whole Internet blows up.

What the fuck guys?

I'm trying to digest everything that's happened now.

Edit: Reading the comments she's making on all of these articles, she's in full on damage control mode! Crazy.

 

[voodoopanda]

Sounds like a loophole in their rules which allows anyone to make a fund-my-life KS, intended or otherwise. Give me a million bucks for me to spend on food, rent, luxuries (ahem I mean operational expenses) and I'll produce an MS-Paint of a dick-butt.

Aren't a lot of Kickstarters like this already? It's basically taking the place of a salary, paying someone to do something? They would then use that salary to pay their rent etc.

Edit: I recall this Kickstarter: Unemployment Quest, where a guy raised $10k to make a game in RPG Maker.

 

[Arkham]

(toomuchscaryforonepost.gif)

BRILLIANT.

Slight modification:

 

[chifanpoe]

Well I guess I should work on my own KS project and see how it works out.

It will involve my 7 year old Daughter wanting to be the next Danica Patrick because the boys at school say she cant, go kart racing school, and at the least a trip to the Nürburgring in Germany for a real hands on learning approach. We will have our own branded Keep Up logs with gear and promise the end product of shredded tire chunks signed by her.

I mean if she can get 2x,000 for RPG cam,p imagine what I can get for a 7 yo and racing equipment/trips... I will be sure to spam every WRC, F1, NASCAR, INDY CAR racing team and driver as well. Maybe I will be able to buy a new BMW M5 while we are in Germany and make a few laps around Green Hell. As there seams to be no accountability on KS side we should be in good shape.

 

[semiconscious]

It's an obvious attempt to deflect the growing criticism. If we're reading this right, and she's attempting to use this KS to create a new brand, I think she's begun to realize that she's created some extremely tenacious enemies in the process who can do some real harm. After all, it's likely that any media entity that wrote about it would likely be flooded by e-mails and calls calling it a scam...

fixed (but otherwise totally agreed with)...

so, yeah, she can play offense & she can play defense. not really seeing how this changes anything. once someone demonstrates a willingness to be manipulative (which i believe this woman has - ymmv), how are you ever gonna really know when it is that you either are or aren't being manipulated? ...

to the extent that susan's all about susan, i still say bottom line: 'mission accomplished'. & now, i think i'll just be leaving her to enjoy her internet celebrity (at the expense of ks' credibility) in peace ...

fucking perfect! ....

 

[VibratingDonkey]

Yep, pulling my backing on torment, consortium and shovel knight.

I'd probably pull my Veronica Mars pledge regardless since it seems Warner Bros has a lot of pull with that considering they're yet to offer even a digital download of the thing outside the US. I'm not interested in supporting a project controlled by a company that's controlling to such a degree that they don't even want me to be able to access the thing I'm funding for them. So fuck that for that reason.

I'll re-pledge for Consortium when they hopefully get around to setting up an alternative means of payment. People should type stuff to the project creators. Email, message on their Kickstarter page, whatevz. Says in the Consortium FAQ they'll set up Paypal if enough people request it.

The KS stance on this opens a whole can of worms for their reputation, unless they change their terms and level the playing field for everyone. But it's their reputation.

All I'd say for Wilson is that she should be embarrassed at the very least. I know if I were wealthy and I was picking up money from strangers for my kids' education and activities, I'd be mortified. But something tells me her conscience has been rather numbed down when it comes to money (I believe she's admitted as much herself). Let's see if she tries to redeem something for herself out of this and puts the money to good use for kids who don't have the means to do this stuff.

It's a pretty easy move to make now to make herself look good.

Holy shit! I'm not sleeping for days...

http://about.me/susanawilson

Ah, beaten. Surprisingly only by one though.

 

[chickdigger802]

I really do feel like ks could shut this down at any time, but they decided not to.

Maybe i've been brainwashed, but I dont feel particularly any hate towards the mom. Maybe it's due to me having a mom who loved to be aggressively/enthusiastically 'hands-on'.

I kinda feel sorry for the kid. The idea of my very first program/game to be judged by the entire internet is kinda scary.

 

[Shinta]

I kinda feel sorry for the kid. The idea of my very first program/game to be judged by the entire internet is kinda scary.

The idea of the brothers being judged on the internet is also kind of scary, but she had no problems tweeting to anyone and everyone about how mean and wrong they are; essentially inviting the internet into their private arguments, and then asking for money to settle it and prove them wrong. Such a bad idea.

 

[Bboy AJ]

Alright, who wants to make the exact same Kickstarter, only for a 40 year old, fat, balding white man?

You could make BANK. And KS wouldn't be able to do SHIT without canceling her KS.

 

[semiconscious]

Maybe i've been brainwashed, but I dont feel particularly any hate towards the mom. Maybe it's due to me having a mom who loved to be aggressively/enthusiastically 'hands-on'...

you needn't 'hate' someone you just plain don't trust. you just make a note of it for future reference ...

 

[voodoopanda]

I really don't think the Kickstarter's "fund my life" guideline means a Kickstarter can't do any of those things at all?

Just look at the buy a camera thing. Lots of Kickstarters have used their donations to buy equipment, even cameras specifically. The movie Kickstarters that needed camera equipment haven't been shut down. Do you really think it's against Kickstarter to be used to buy equipment to make whatever project it is? I don't think buying a camera to film your movie or whatever breaks or bends the guideline?

I think what that guideline means is that it can't be the only reason for the Kickstarters existence. You can't just have a Kickstarter about buying a camera or paying tuition and nothing else. There has to be some sort of creative project you're making with that equipment.

Since this Kickstarter has that project, the RPG, then the things needed to accomplish that don't fall under the Fund My Life guideline. That's why I think Kickstarter hasn't taken it down.

There have been similar projects in the past, like Unemployment Quest I linked earlier. The creative project for that was a game made in RPG Maker too, and it made $10k, $9k more than asked.

 

[moka]

Alright, who wants to make the exact same Kickstarter, only for a 40 year old, fat, balding white man?

You could make BANK. And KS wouldn't be able to do SHIT without canceling her KS.

Exactly, people are defending it by saying it might bend the rules a bit but doesn't completely break them. What if I created one for myself to help pay for my University fees but I'd promise to create something for backers once I'm done. Would it get taken down? Maybe I should try.

She also seems to be asking 4Chan and Reddit for help deciding where the money should go. That's a joke in itself.

 

[Shinta]

I really don't think the Kickstarter's "fund my life" guideline means a Kickstarter can't do any of those things at all?

Just look at the buy a camera thing. Lots of Kickstarters have used their donations to buy equipment, even cameras specifically. The movie Kickstarters that needed camera equipment haven't been shut down. Do you really think it's against Kickstarter to be used to buy equipment to make whatever project it is?

I think what that guideline means is that it can't be the only reason for the Kickstarters existence. You can't just have a Kickstarter about buying a camera or paying tuition and nothing else. There has to be some sort of creative project you're making with that equipment.

Since this Kickstarter has that project, the RPG, then the things needed to accomplish that don't fall under the Fund My Life guideline. That's why I think Kickstarter hasn't taken it down.

There have been similar projects in the past, like Unemployment Quest I linked earlier. The creative project for that was a game made in RPG Maker, and it made $10k, $9k more than asked.

Equipment is one thing. But what if you literally don't even have the skills or knowledge to offer your product and ask for the education to potentially do it? It's a very, very, very fine line.

 

[moka]

Equipment is one thing. But what if you literally don't even have the skills or knowledge to offer your product and ask for the education to potentially do it? It's a very, very, very fine line.

Exactly, it's like me asking them to fund me to help me become a solicitor and if they do, I'll represent them one time for free when I get my degree.

Sound ridiculous? That's because it is.

Also, here's a hilarious comment by her made 2 years ago on this TechCrunch article:

I see all sides. And the reality is that women and men are wired differently. We're all figuring things out - life, technology, money, etc. And just when we think we've figured something out, everything changes.

I can tell you that it's particularly frustrating to see a man get rich building a selling a product based on my needs (i.e., women's needs). Like it or not, women now make the majority of purchasing decisions and we're wising up and realizing since we control the dollars, why aren't we making more of them. Why should it only be men getting rich?

It's not that men do anything wrong or hold women back - generally speaking - it's just that women think and act differently than men. We hate to ask for help - especially if it's from a man and especially if it involves money! But we're the first to offer help when someone needs it (often before the person even asks). This vicious cycle fuels the problem.

Women don't need charity. We control more dollars than men these days. What we need is confidence, experience, mentoring and money to start and grow our own high growth companies. A lot of people are working on solving the problems, but that takes time. So instead of fighting while time goes by, we should each see what we can do to help in our own way.

I've highlighted the best bits.

I went on her about.me page by accident, I almost fell of my chair.

 

[foobarry81]

Does anyone else feel that this could become a great franchise?

Episode 1: McKenzie vs RPGMaker
it´s live now on Kickstarter

Episode 2: McKenzie vs The Pony Remark
- Kenzie´s mean brothers say she can´t ride a pony because she´s a guuurrrll. Susan decides to start a new Kickstarter project to show them. Target is to raise $829 for pony camp. Extra money will go to the purchase of the pony and the stable. $10K reward tier has the boys clean the stable as a punishment. Every backer will get a video of Kenzie riding the pony and a horse shoe with the Keep Up! logo.

Episode 3: McKenzie vs The Pool
- Kenzie´s mean brothers say she can´t swim a kilometer because she´s a guuurrrlll. Susan decides to start a new Kickstarter project to show them. Target is to raise $829 for swimming camp. Extra money will go to bathing suits and a pool in the garden. $10K reward tier has the boys clean the pool when autumn sets in and it´s full of leafs. Every backer get a bathing cap with the Keep Up! logo.

Susan, if you plan on using any of the above ideas, let´s split $.

 

[voodoopanda]

Equipment is one thing. But what if you literally don't even have the skills or knowledge to offer your product and ask for the education to potentially do it? It's a very, very, very fine line.

The fact that equipment(a camera) is listed in the same exact list as tuition makes me think it's meant in the same way. If buying a camera is okay, then paying tuition is also okay, if its in service to a creative project. And remember that this is a week long class that teaches specifically how to use the tool, RPG Maker, that the person is using to make the game, not a 4 year university or something.

 

[CartridgeBlower]

Isn't KS setting legal precedent by keeping this up? What happens when the next person comes and they get theirs taken down? Can't they cite this one and now say they are being unfairly treated?

 

[Shinta]

It's not that men do anything wrong or hold women back - generally speaking - it's just that women think and act differently than men. We hate to ask for help - especially if it's from a man and especially if it involves money! But we're the first to offer help when someone needs it (often before the person even asks). This vicious cycle fuels the problem.

Women don't need charity. We control more dollars than men these days. What we need is confidence, experience, mentoring and money to start and grow our own high growth companies. A lot of people are working on solving the problems, but that takes time. So instead of fighting while time goes by, we should each see what we can do to help in our own way.

Surreal. Totally sounds like a normal, middle class, not-money-hungry individual who wouldn't plan to use KS to extract the maximum amount of money possible.

 

[voodoopanda]

There are several Kickstarters that are just "Give me money and I'll make a thing." This money isn't going towards anything but a paycheck for that person. It's to help fund creative projects, which includes just paying someone for writing a story or making a game in RPG Maker or taking photographs or drawing pictures or whatever. Whether that money is ultimately used to buy pencils, hamburgers, cameras, a vacation, training, or a bunch of t-shirt backer rewards isn't against the rules, as long as the creative project is made.

 

[Parallacs]

Does anyone else feel that this could become a great franchise?

Episode 1: McKenzie vs RPGMaker
it´s live now on Kickstarter

Episode 2: McKenzie vs The Pony Remark
- Kenzie´s mean brothers say she can´t ride a pony because she´s a guuurrrll. Susan decides to start a new Kickstarter project to show them. Target is to raise $829 for pony camp. Extra money will go to the purchase of the pony and the stable. $10K reward tier has the boys clean the stable as a punishment. Every backer will get a video of Kenzie riding the pony and a horse shoe with the Keep Up! logo.

Episode 3: McKenzie vs The Pool
- Kenzie´s mean brothers say she can´t swim a kilometer because she´s a guuurrrlll. Susan decides to start a new Kickstarter project to show them. Target is to raise $829 for swimming camp. Extra money will go to bathing suits and a pool in the garden. $10K reward tier has the boys clean the pool when autumn sets in and it´s full of leafs. Every backer get a bathing cap with the Keep Up! logo.

Susan, if you plan on using any of the above ideas, let´s split $.

Haha Ice Cold.


I said it a year or so ago and it is still true. Kickstarter is just like Groupon. There are amazing things on there and when everyone acts in good will, the site works. Then you get burned by a really bad seller (groupon) and you never want to use the site again.

It doesn't help that Kickstarter is so hands off about protecting the investor.

 

[GungHo]

That's a very good write up. Given that rumors about her being a millionaire are just speculation I'd have to give her the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps this is just a perfect storm and she made this thing with good intentions.

Never-the-less her kickstarter should simply be shut down, as it's against the TOS. We shouldn't have to wonder what will happen to 20k that should never have been allowed to be given in the first place.

It's not speculation. She cybersquatted on kinkos.com and made $100m back in 2000. She is now the CEO of a factoring company. That's just a fact. It's possible that she's managed to blow $100m in 13 years, but I don't think she's Richard Pryor trying for Brewster's Millions.