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Millionaire tries to get $829 via kickstarter to send daughter to RPG maker camp?

Spwn

Member
Yeah, currently writing an essay about crowd funding and been reading the KS guidelines over and over again. KS should've flipped the switch when Wilson started to propose that the extra money would be donated.

Kickstarter Guidelines said:
What is not allowed?

Creators cannot promise to donate a portion of funds raised or future revenue to a cause.

I think that was the last chance Kickstarter had to stop this with dignity.
 
Somehow it's gotten KS's blessing in a weird overtly way

In that they get 5% of the total amount, why not keep it funded

I really dont think its about the money for the KS people. They have had projects that end up 3-4 million+. 5% of 20,000 is probably not even significant enough to register when you make a decision on this.

They dont wanna shut it down cause 1) people seem to be donating to the project which gives it some legitimacy and more importantly 2) it would kick up a hell of a PR shitstorm. "9 year old girl's dream project crushed by website". Who wants to deal with that?
 

Shaneus

Member
But KS itself is not worth giving money to. Those legit project creators are going to need to find another way of funding their stuff, because I'm not giving another buck to that KS scum.
I wouldn't go so far to say that KS are scum, but if there's something on there I want to back, I'll stick definitely be looking at alternate ways to fund something (a la DF Slacker Backers, alternate PayPal payment options etc.).
 

RionaaM

Unconfirmed Member
I wouldn't go so far to say that KS are scum, but if there's something on there I want to back, I'll stick definitely be looking at alternate ways to fund something (a la DF Slacker Backers, alternate PayPal payment options etc.).
If they are willing to let their own rules be broken, and continue to support a scam despite all the evidence against it, then they are scum to me. No reason to keep using their site, now that I know what kind of people run it.
 

Nokterian

Member
If they are willing to let their own rules be broken, and continue to support a scam despite all the evidence against it, then they are scum to me. No reason to keep using their site, now that I know what kind of people run it.

Thinking the same way. They broke there own rules and not listening to the people who reported it. And not following there own guidelines and ToS is to shady for me and just in for the money. I will not fund any kickstarter project from since this come to light. Untill i hope they take it down but i have my doubts.
 

undrtakr900

Member
OP, can you include a link to the kicktraq so that we can easily access it?

Also, is it true that her daughter isn't 9 and her sons are actually closer to 20 than 15?
The original link is in there, but it got pushed to the bottom. Its right above the Warren Buffet picture.

As new information about Susan came out, Goon Boon updated the original post, but he put the new information Above the initial post(+link) instead of Below it. That's why it looks so dam confusing to everyone new to this thread trying to figure out what happened.
I didn't mention the age limit thing because I didn't think it was very relevant to the point I was trying to make.

I did mention Twitter spam and violation of KS rules.

Thanks for the feedback. :)
In the part where you talked about her twitter spam you should link to that picture that compiled all of the organizations/celebs she tweeted to.

Also you should note that she continued to spam twitter after she hit her initial goal, to show it was definitely about the money.
 

Shaneus

Member
Have they officially condoned it yet, or is it just their inaction that's speaking so loudly? At this point, I won't support anything KS again but I won't go as far as to lambast them... until it gets to within a day or two of it finishing and if they still haven't said anything on it. As it is, there's still, what, two weeks left?
Fake edit: 18 days left. I'll give 'em two weeks before I start getting aggro. A lot can happen in that time.

Real edit:
Also you should note that she continued to spam twitter after she hit her initial goal, to show it was definitely about the money.
Given that KS really have no excuse, providing they actually know about this, I'm all for them getting them to stop it... it's a wonder they haven't even made some kind of public announcement stating their position on it. There's a chance that there may not be anyone in any kind of capacity looking at this sort of thing over there (or perhaps, the right person hasn't seen it yet).
 

inm8num2

Member
Ms. Wilson posted words of support that Kickstarter gave her, no?

This whole project is a blatant violation of ToS, no?

At this point Ms. Wilson is poised to bring in a nice chunk of commission change for KS. I doubt they'll get any serious, long-term blowback from not shutting this down.
 
Have they officially condoned it yet, or is it just their inaction that's speaking so loudly? At this point, I won't support anything KS again but I won't go as far as to lambast them... until it gets to within a day or two of it finishing and if they still haven't said anything on it. As it is, there's still, what, two weeks left?
Fake edit: 18 days left. I'll give 'em two weeks before I start getting aggro. A lot can happen in that time.

Multiple sites got a statement from one of the owners specifically backing the project (I think one of them was kotaku)...
 

Shaneus

Member
Multiple sites got a statement from one of the owners specifically backing the project (I think one of them was kotaku)...
Well, then. Anyone have a screencap/quote? Because if that's their stance, then fuck 'em. But that may have been after the KS was created but before all of this stuff blew up (and they may have changed their tune since).

Still wondering why none of the sites that posted the initial story haven't done a follow-up on it. No "official" media outlets seem to be doing so... at least, none actually querying the validity of it.
 
Well, then. Anyone have a screencap/quote? Because if that's their stance, then fuck 'em. But that may have been after the KS was created but before all of this stuff blew up (and they may have changed their tune since).

Still wondering why none of the sites that posted the initial story haven't done a follow-up on it. No "official" media outlets seem to be doing so... at least, none actually querying the validity of it.

From Kotaku..I do remember someone getting a quote from the owner though...just can't remember the site

I contacted Kickstarter regarding the validity of the project, and received the same response given any other media outlet that inquired: "Kickstarter is a funding platform for creative projects. The goal of this project is to create a video game, which backers are offered for a $10 pledge. On Kickstarter backers ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it."
 

Matrix

LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world he’d rather have. The problem is, Dwyane’s not a woman.
SMH this woman >_<

"
Creator Susan Wilson 33 minutes ago

Just to be clear, PinkieSquare.com is live and has been. Perhaps you typed it in wrong (i.e., user error). Kenzie and her brothers are working on an intro video for the game. Kenzie will be putting it out there along with a few other things for feedback so the community knows that while we haven't been commenting 24/7, we've chosen to focus on actually doing the WORK!

I don't intend on debating with any of you and I find it sad Riggo and Evaristo Ramos took pleasure in making insincere and false $10,0000 pledges that they then reneged on. And Daniel Abel has been reported as a child predator based on his pedophile/justice comment. Which begs the question, how can any of these individuals (as well as their opinions and tactics) be considered credible?

Several of you are bantering with each other like this is an open forum intended for you to hang out in all day. Sandwiches, Jacob, Corey and Dan - don't you have something productive you could be doing b/c the reality is this project is continuing and what's amazing is that it's getting bigger & better than Kenzie and I ever imagined.

If you'd like to continue your rant against me, create your own "I hate Susan" Facebook page and rant away. Make it yours and say whatever you want because just in case it's not already evident, I don't care what you think and if you have issues, I encourage you to contact Kickstarter.

You may disagree (which is your right) but you've done that and it's been noted and overruled. Move on."
 

Shosai

Banned
If they are willing to let their own rules be broken, and continue to support a scam despite all the evidence against it, then they are scum to me. No reason to keep using their site, now that I know what kind of people run it.

Honest question, can it be called a "scam" if the backers aren't seriously expecting to get a decent product in return? This is the third time I've asked for someone's opinion on this, and I haven't gotten an answer.
 
SMH this woman >_<

"
Creator Susan Wilson 33 minutes ago

Just to be clear, PinkieSquare.com is live and has been. Perhaps you typed it in wrong (i.e., user error). Kenzie and her brothers are working on an intro video for the game. Kenzie will be putting it out there along with a few other things for feedback so the community knows that while we haven't been commenting 24/7, we've chosen to focus on actually doing the WORK!

I don't intend on debating with any of you and I find it sad Riggo and Evaristo Ramos took pleasure in making insincere and false $10,0000 pledges that they then reneged on. And Daniel Abel has been reported as a child predator based on his pedophile/justice comment. Which begs the question, how can any of these individuals (as well as their opinions and tactics) be considered credible?

Several of you are bantering with each other like this is an open forum intended for you to hang out in all day. Sandwiches, Jacob, Corey and Dan - don't you have something productive you could be doing b/c the reality is this project is continuing and what's amazing is that it's getting bigger & better than Kenzie and I ever imagined.

If you'd like to continue your rant against me, create your own "I hate Susan" Facebook page and rant away. Make it yours and say whatever you want because just in case it's not already evident, I don't care what you think and if you have issues, I encourage you to contact Kickstarter.

You may disagree (which is your right) but you've done that and it's been noted and overruled. Move on."

She called out the $10K backers that reneg'd? HA...
 
Honest question, can it be called a "scam" if the backers aren't seriously expecting to get a decent product in return? This is the third time I've asked for someone's opinion on this, and I haven't gotten an answer.

It's a scam because she's being dishonest with her intent in representing her daughter in order to make money.
 

Matrix

LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world he’d rather have. The problem is, Dwyane’s not a woman.
She called out the $10K backers that reneg'd? HA...

haha and no mention of the $1 backers and now the brothers are helping wtf what about proving them wrong?
 

inm8num2

Member
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This is just sad. How are people falling for this? What was once a fundraising scam for something she can pay for is now a worldly inspiring message about "keeping up".
 

Matrix

LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world he’d rather have. The problem is, Dwyane’s not a woman.
"Michelle Hinn less than a minute ago

"I just returned to this to see what was happening and to see if Susan had finally addressed many of the legitimate questions many of us in the game industry have had and have been debating on Facebook and at last weeks GDC. So...it seems I have no reason to increase my pledge to something substantial. What a mess. And Susan you have just totally turned me off to this...and maybe to kickstarter too. Sigh. What a disappointment."

Hope she cancels her pledge completely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Hinn
 
Could a very kind boy or girl give me a concise briefing of what exactly happened here?
Read the title. Then take into consideration that said woman scammed people in the past multiple times. She also participates in cybersquatting, which is a crime. She breaches multiple KS guidelines (proven), but KS supports her anyway, because her project is raising some money.

Media and probably Arthur Gies are kissing her ass. Project still exists.
 

Parallacs

Member
"Michelle Hinn less than a minute ago

"I just returned to this to see what was happening and to see if Susan had finally addressed many of the legitimate questions many of us in the game industry have had and have been debating on Facebook and at last weeks GDC. So...it seems I have no reason to increase my pledge to something substantial. What a mess. And Susan you have just totally turned me off to this...and maybe to kickstarter too. Sigh. What a disappointment."

Hope she cancels her pledge completely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Hinn

This is exciting! People actually involved in the games industry are starting to look deeper. I can't wait till Romero posts a similar comment.
 

RionaaM

Unconfirmed Member
Honest question, can it be called a "scam" if the backers aren't seriously expecting to get a decent product in return? This is the third time I've asked for someone's opinion on this, and I haven't gotten an answer.
Yes, because the project promises something which (most probably) won't be delivered. It matters not whether the backers actually expect it to deliver.
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
It's a scam because she's being dishonest with her intent in representing her daughter in order to make money.
The other problem is that the project is wholly inconsistent with the spirit and purpose of Kickstarter. It also makes their rules seem arbitrary and subjective. It's a vaguely feel-good gesture rather than a project that requires crowdfunding to exist. The funding is substantial but all the funds above $900 are completely unnecessary under the original scope and the accountability for the extra money is almost non-existent.

Enthusiasm for this type of project is inevitably going to erode over time as people become more savvy, but it's going to erode confidence in KS as well because now they're associated with it.
 

Shosai

Banned
Yes, because the project promises something which (most probably) won't be delivered. It matters not whether the backers actually expect it to deliver.

Kickstarter would obligate her to deliver the promised product, an RPG maker game. And that's an actual rule, instead of a "guideline". Saying that the backers aren't the arbiters as to how their money is spent implies that it is our responsibility to prevent them from making poor financial decisions.

It's a vaguely feel-good gesture rather than a project that requires crowdfunding to exist. The funding is substantial but all the funds above $900 are completely unnecessary under the original scope and the accountability for the extra money is almost non-existent.

This is true for every Kickstarter, however. They don't track how the money is managed, or put a hard-limit as to how much money can be raised.

It's a scam because she's being dishonest with her intent in representing her daughter in order to make money.

A much better answer.
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Ideally, Kickstarter shouldn't even allow you to raise more than your funding goal without having specific stretch goals.

Of course, who are the idiots donating to something like this where everything above the funding goal lacks even a vague purpose? Who sees that the goal is met and still donates? I can't imagine it's to get the video game.
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
This is true for every Kickstarter, however. They don't track how the money is managed, or put a hard-limit as to how much money can be raised.
Oh definitely. But most KS projects are able to adjust their scope to accommodate the extra funds. The creator of this KS makes it a point that it is not possible to do that without "breaking KS rules."

The potential for exploitation is so great here that I think the project should have been scrapped to avoid even the appearance of a scam.
 
"Michelle Hinn less than a minute ago

"I just returned to this to see what was happening and to see if Susan had finally addressed many of the legitimate questions many of us in the game industry have had and have been debating on Facebook and at last weeks GDC. So...it seems I have no reason to increase my pledge to something substantial. What a mess. And Susan you have just totally turned me off to this...and maybe to kickstarter too. Sigh. What a disappointment."

Hope she cancels her pledge completely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Hinn

Sweet justice. People who matter and whose opinion matter... have sided with those of justice.

The journalists better get a huge backlash for this if it goes down.
 

Muku

Member
I didn't mention the age limit thing because I didn't think it was very relevant to the point I was trying to make.

I did mention Twitter spam and violation of KS rules.

Thanks for the feedback. :)

Well, I only mention it because it feels like a lie on Susan's part. That she is "paying" for over night tuition, but if the kid isn't even old enough she's not even really paying that. KS would technically be funding the whole thing. So she wasn't doing her backers any favors, like it seemed she was trying to go for.

I don't recall seeing the Twitter spam, but it was late last night so I probably was sleeping through reading that part, LOL.

Susan called out the April Fools pranksters? C'mon lady. It was April Fools. And you're running the biggest April Fools joke before April 1st even hit. What did you expect? Though last night before bed was glad to see the other 10k get removed. Fact she called them out by name though? That's not cool.

Anyway, now caught up on thread, guess I gotta catch up on that comments section...

EDIT: Ahh that Thailand newspaper with the NeoGAF link. How crazy is that, haha.

Also, what good is an intro to a game, if she no bloody idea what the hell it's going to be about or anything. And don't say NARUTO clone, because we all know that won't cut it. :p
 
I bet you she's getting a tech savvy neighbor to make the intro.

edit- I missed this...response from the author of the CNET article..

This is the last word from me on the story involving the Kickstarter campaign for the nine-year-old girl. It's an excerpt from my back-and-forth with +Corey Brin, who hopefully has a long career ahead of him as a spokesperson for reasonable skeptics and consumer watchdogs everywhere:

... To call the story I wrote one-sided though seems a little crazy to me.

First, I should also be clear that the writing I do on CNET involves reporting, analysis, opinion and even a little humor. I consider this a form of journalism so long as it's done in a way that's fair and transparent and opinions are obviously labeled as such. Notice I don't include "balanced" because I don't think all arguments, facts and suppositions carry equal weight.

Not everyone agrees with calling what I'm describing journalism, and that's a fair and important discussion to have. But we can do that another day, just want to let you know where I'm coming from.

So, I'd think we could agree this story has two sides on the most basic level - there's the side that believes Wilson (not Lewis) is a liar, scammer, cheater, rule-breaker, millionaire, etc. The pretty wide majority of commenters in this camp definitely fit the definition of a troll, particularly the author of the original post on Reddit that I quote. It's unfortunate you were lumped in with that description, but I certainly think it's an accurate description of the overall attitude of the aggregated group.

That's side one. Side two of the story is represented by Wilson herself and Kickstarter. That side of the story says it's legit and earnest.

I got both sides of the story while others were just repeating from Reddit and elsewhere. Then I set to work on evaluating and analyzing them to form my opinion and weigh both those sides of the story. I believe from personal experience and past reporting that some of what Wilson says is true, as I mention in the article. Kickstarter isn't a democracy, it's a company, and their interpretation of their own rules is what matters in this case, so I asked them for that. That's another side of the story I got that no one else did. (BTW - it's fair to criticize them for uneven application of their own rules, which I do believe is a problem there, but I didn't see it as the issue in this case. This issue was about how Kickstarter sees Wilson's campaign).

So in my mind, on one side is a successful project that was approved by Kickstarter and run by a woman who now pledges publicly to put extra funds raised towards what will hopefully be a good cause.

On the other side is a group that waged a campaign of character assassination on an individual by making assumptions and drawing conclusions based on bits of disjointed information from around the web. This is not research. It's Googling. Research starts there and ends with questions and (ideally) confirmations, which is what I attempted to do.


Best,

EM&#65279;
 

Muku

Member
"I believe from personal experience and past reporting that some of what Wilson says is true, as I mention in the article."

Hmm, I missed that too. But then again after the initial read, I didn't go back. CNET isn't exactly my favorite place for news.

I quoted the above because obviously folks don't know how scammers work. OF COURSE there is SOME truth to what Wilson says. They feed you a bit of truth to fuel the scam. Figuring out WHAT IS truth is the difficult part. He should have questioned why she didn't at least alleviate fears about some of these issues were brought up. Yeah, you could say "don't feed the trolls" because it doesn't help your cause, but these are legit concerns.

Also, Corey is awesome. I know I've said that a few times already, but he is the voice of reason over there which I respect.
 

JDSN

Banned
I hope the Kickstarter guys think it was worth all this controversy over the 2 thousand they will get for this.
 

inm8num2

Member
Hiding behind her children grants her immunity, do what you must she has already won.

She has only won when any are still loyal to her.

At this point a person needs to be braindead or completely averse to even slivers of logic and truth. There are 1325 people who need to still be educated.
 
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