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[not psycho]

This is the type of language used to attack the art and the artist, from the article and on this board:

"It's tough to find a woman in gaming who doesn't have a story about that one time someone said something way over the line"

"Not when so many women still feel so uncomfortable playing games, or working in the video game industry, or attending gaming events."

"But the dwarf isn't making many people uncomfortable, because men don't get sexually harassed at PAX East. Because male designers don't get mistaken for receptionists. Because male reporters are never asked if they really play video games."

They're part of a lolicon fantasy, drawn to appeal to people who are interested in lolicon fantasies

If you want to smear an artist with claims that they were drawing to appeal to lolicons, supporting sexual harassment, workplace discrimination, and questioning of gaming cred, then you need to make a case for that.

It is pretty disgusting to use all this with no argument, just an outright smear campaign because you dislike an artwork.

And it is hilariously bad that such a smear campaign was used against a company with a wide variety of strong, playable female characters and body types (of which the Sorceress is not in the least the "standard" design), an established exaggerated art style, and an artist who is actually the president of the company and does not appear to be using a forced or cynical approach to the art.

Bottom line, this is men who are frustrated at not being able to find the design attractive, because it was too exaggerated for them, lashing out in vile ways.



The irony is, the attack on this art has included derogatory comments about women's bodies, body policing, equating of partially uncovered breasts and exposed genitals, and ignoring women's opinions on games.

Exactly how does this help with problems of sexual harassment and questioning of women's gaming cred? By telling harassers that a women in a low cut dress is essentially fully naked and committing indecent exposure? By telling people certain body types are bad? By ignoring women's opinions, and the fact that women can enjoy and draw sexualized art?

 

[Metroidvania]

But obviously, somewhere the design took a turn that offends some people. STOP! I see you building up the gears of defense (context, history, inspiration again) a piece of art doesn't always have those luxuries. Sometimes they need to be judged on their own merit. The bottom line is that it does offend some people. You can't backtrack to find some justification for why it shouldn't offend us, you need to start from, ok it does, what can we do?

While this may be true from a morality perspective, it does not apply to a business/design perspective. The first thing when confronted with someone being offended or unhappy is not automatically 'what can we do to cater to the people who are offended'.

You judge interest of what you've created and place it against the potential ramifications of all the people who are offended and judge whether or not it's worth continuing on the current path or going back and re-doing your work in order to please the offended in an effort to gain more business.

Then, if it's judged to be better to go back, you do so, and see what you can do.

Your bottom line of being offended is not somehow 'worth' more than someone else's not being offended, unless you're taking 'harm' done by being offended into account i.e. morality and balancing your decision on it.

But you're just going to say you don't have to do anything because you like it. Because you don't realize at the end of the day you're just fighting for a potentially good game for the wrong reasons. The defense of this has gone so far we start to wonder, is this the most important part of the game to you guys? I can't let my 4-year old daughter play this game because more important than the art, combat, story or lore are the boobs?

At the end of the day, this is part of the discussion of censorship versus artistic intent, intermixed here with feelings on sexism/misogny and the portrayal of women in video games.

 

[jschreier]

I'm still waiting for you to address your drive-by assertion that anybody who likes the designs of the Sorceress are playing into and promoting lolicon fantasy (code-word for pedophilia).

You know, a whole lot of people have been sending me nasty messages about this (while ignoring the rest of that post it came from). I was under the impression that a woman with a young girl's face and large breasts could be "lolicon," but I am not exactly an expert on lolicon culture. If I'm wrong, I apologize for the error.

But, look, I really don't care if you like the designs of the sorceress. You're allowed to enjoy cartoon witches with giant breasts in skimpy clothing. I'm just baffled at how many people don't see why people like me consider it problematic.

 

[LiK]

You know, a whole lot of people have been sending me nasty messages about this (while ignoring the rest of that post it came from). I was under the impression that a woman with a young girl's face and large breasts could be "lolicon," but I am not exactly an expert on lolicon culture. If I'm wrong, I apologize for the error.

But, look, I really don't care if you like the designs of the sorceress. You're allowed to enjoy cartoon witches with giant breasts in skimpy clothing. I'm just baffled at how many people don't see why people like me consider it problematic.

cuz it's a fantasy brawler where everyone looks ridiculous.

 

[jschreier]

Bottom line, this is men who are frustrated at not being able to find the design attractive, because it was too exaggerated for them, lashing out in vile ways.

Oh man. This thread.

 

[eternalb]

You know, a whole lot of people have been sending me nasty messages about this (while ignoring the rest of that post it came from). I was under the impression that a woman with a young girl's face and large breasts could be "lolicon," but I am not exactly an expert on lolicon culture.

Or in journalism, it would seem. That's why you research words before you use them, ESPECIALLY before using it as an attack against someone on a well-trafficked website.

Do you guys seriously not have a peer-review process before you slander someone? (or even in general?)

 

[Corto]

Which is as it should be. It's a discussion among thinking people with plenty of perspectives.

Absolutely, and I could appreciate the validity of the arguments from each side (though some of them could be defined as a little too radical). It just felt somewhat ironic given the present situation, that motivated my search in the first place.

 

[BronsonLee]

You know, a whole lot of people have been sending me nasty messages about this (while ignoring the rest of that post it came from). I was under the impression that a woman with a young girl's face and large breasts could be "lolicon," but I am not exactly an expert on lolicon culture. If I'm wrong, I apologize for the error.

But, look, I really don't care if you like the designs of the sorceress. You're allowed to enjoy cartoon witches with giant breasts in skimpy clothing. I'm just baffled at how many people don't see why people like me consider it problematic.

Why would you even use that phrase if you weren't sure of its meaning? You essentially state in an extremely incendiary manner that his art caters to pedophiles. And you're surprised when people get up in arms about it? I doubt that.

Of the people who you should probably apologize to, I really doubt GAF is on that list

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

You know, a whole lot of people have been sending me nasty messages about this (while ignoring the rest of that post it came from). I was under the impression that a woman with a young girl's face and large breasts could be "lolicon," but I am not exactly an expert on lolicon culture. If I'm wrong, I apologize for the error.

The lolicon part was pretty big accusation and I think, even If Japanese artists treat it way relaxed in that regard, is probably still something that will raise a eyebrow.

 

[AlucardGV]

You know, a whole lot of people have been sending me nasty messages about this (while ignoring the rest of that post it came from). I was under the impression that a woman with a young girl's face and large breasts could be "lolicon," but I am not exactly an expert on lolicon culture. If I'm wrong, I apologize for the error.

then why do you write it if you're not sure?

 

[KibblesBits]

Hurray, more guys talking about what is best for women. Now we just need some actual women to post their opinions only to be ignored.

Women have already posted opinions in this thread.

 

[zoukka]

You know, a whole lot of people have been sending me nasty messages about this (while ignoring the rest of that post it came from). I was under the impression that a woman with a young girl's face and large breasts could be "lolicon," but I am not exactly an expert on lolicon culture. If I'm wrong, I apologize for the error.

One might think it's the journalists responsibility if not essential to his profession, to find out about these things especially if the terms are used to label other people.

EDIT: heh beaten

 

[Village]

I never said that only black people can make games with black people in them. I said we need more creative people that like you said, are willing to try something new.
The only reason I brought up black artists success in other industries is because you specifically brought up one that was neglected because of his race and the content of his work. But that
doesn't mean you should belittle peoples work just because its not what you want.

R* did exactly what I said, go find people with different life experiences to inform their influences and make a good game. I'm not saying that a game made about the lives of a black man can't appeal to everyone. I'm saying that instead of people asking why they're aren't black people in Dragons Crown they should be asking why there aren't more people in the industry that are willing to make entire games centered around a black character.

Its a very important distinction to make. The former is trying to influence a developer with a creative vision to do what you want, while the latter is questioning the industry as a whole and why it isn't more progressive. We shouldnt be sitting around questioning why specific people aren't making things to cater to everyone. We should be questioning why the industry as a whole doesn't have a broader spectrum.

'I would argue the latter is because of the former

 

[eternalb]

Oh man. This thread.

Oh man. Your article.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

Oh man. This thread.

What are you trying to communicate with this post? Are you insinuating that this entire thread is equivalent to that one, dumb post you can safely ignore like the rest of us have?

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Oh man. This thread.

Yeah, ok, that line just... I'm gonna go lie down or something.

 

[Lain]

Kamitani is a great man and his comment shows it even more. I can't say the same about Jason which, to me, has kept digging his hole more and more with every new comment and follow up articles.

 

[jschreier]

then why do you write it if you're not sure?

While I generally try to make sure everything that I post on this rapid-moving video game message board is 100% correct, sometimes I don't do heavy research into lolicon culture before posting about it here. I was under the impression that the woman with a youthful face and large breasts is a lolicon fantasy. Plenty of people have felt the need to correct that. I submit that there are people here who understand lolicon culture better than I. I am okay with that.

 

[bishopcruz]

I'm not trying to take away your game. I'm not trying to kill the franchise or see Mr. Kamitani fired.

I never said you were.

Serious question, if the sorceress had been drawn less "exaggerated" how many of you (aside from the obvious ones) would have complained that her boobs weren't big enough? I doubt many. You'd have you game, the article never written and everybody happy. But obviously, somewhere the design took a turn that offends some people. STOP! I see you building up the gears of defense (context, history, inspiration again) a piece of art doesn't always have those luxuries. Sometimes they need to be judged on their own merit. The bottom line is that it does offend some people. You can't backtrack to find some justification for why it shouldn't offend us, you need to start from, ok it does, what can we do?

The point that you are missing, is he drew her that way for a reason. Deal, or don't. It's as simple as that. Offense does not entitle a response. Many here are offended at being called sexist douches for liking the art, I don't see you trying to say "ok what can I do?"

A piece of art might offend people, political art, religious art, graffiti, porn, music whatever. That it causes offense to someone means quite literally nothing unless the artist himelf decides to care. People are offended everyday, do you think that christian fundamentalists who are offended by Harry Potter deserve the same level of concern that you and those who share your offense here?

I will show people that there was a lot of thought and design that went into the work, and honestly the style isn't even my cup of tea. But I sure as hell do not care if it offends somebody. Because no matter what type of art you make, you WILL offend somebody. If you offend enough people that your game can't sell, well lesson fucking learned.

Give me someone's offense and a nickel, and the only thing of value is a nickel.

But you're just going to say you don't have to do anything because you like it. Because you don't realize at the end of the day you're just fighting for a potentially good game for the wrong reasons. The defense of this has gone so far we start to wonder, is this the most important part of the game to you guys? I can't let my 4-year old daughter play this game because more important than the art, combat, story or lore are the boobs?

It's just sad, because I think in the end this style only limits the audience and success of the game, not helps it. That's a different debate though.

The BOOBS are part of the art. It's what it is, you don't have to like it, but that is the decision that was made by the artist and the team. I'm sure that your daughter can play several other games, or you can send a letter to George and see if he'll change it for you.

The default position, is as you say doing nothing, especially when it comes to something that is offensive. Don't buy it. We need to learn that our opinions most certainly matter, but so do the ones of those around us, and the best way of making sure that everyone's opinion isn't shat on is by letting people create whatever they like. Will people be offended, yup, and in a way that's what makes anything worthwhile.

As for the most important part, actually I was going to pass it by until I realized it was basically a sequel to D&D from the arcades, then I was psyched. I'll probably never even play as the sorceress.

 

[pixlexic]

He doesn't need to explain himself .. Especially not to kotaku

 

[LiK]

While I generally try to make sure everything that I post on this rapid-moving video game message board is 100% correct, sometimes I don't do heavy research into lolicon culture before posting about it here. I was under the impression that the woman with a youthful face and large breasts is a lolicon fantasy. Plenty of people have felt the need to correct that. I submit that there are people here who understand lolicon culture better than I. I am okay with that.

c'mon Jay, simple google search.

i hope you know where otaku in Kotaku came from.

 

[Tain]

I'm just baffled at how many people don't see why people like me consider it problematic.

I'm pretty amazed that you can't see why people would treat an issue of taste as an issue of taste.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

It was a mistake to use that pic as a responce, it was a mistake to dignify the prudish game design kommisar behavior with any responce.

 

[Salaadin]

You know, a whole lot of people have been sending me nasty messages about this (while ignoring the rest of that post it came from). I was under the impression that a woman with a young girl's face and large breasts could be "lolicon," but I am not exactly an expert on lolicon culture. If I'm wrong, I apologize for the error.

But, look, I really don't care if you like the designs of the sorceress. You're allowed to enjoy cartoon witches with giant breasts in skimpy clothing. I'm just baffled at how many people don't see why people like me consider it problematic.

What is problematic? Are people are going to see the sorceress and is it going to cloud their minds and make them sexist?

I'm not getting how large breasts and cleavage is somehow a problem nor do I see how the sorceress is somehow the poster child of sexism in the videogame industry.

 

[EvilKatarn]

I wonder how large-breasted, thick-legged, wide-hipped women feel about all this. I know I would be devastated.

Sure, it's a caricature but this kind of discussion can be harmful for people who find their figures similar to that of the one under discussion.

Before you say I'm joking, stop. I'm serious. Think of how that sorceress would look in a more realistic art style. Now, would you say that there's no people who look like that? Is there no people who would perceive themselves as looking like that?

What you are effectively doing is saying that they are disgusting, offensive, grotesque and they probably should not exist. While society works towards fat acceptance which is promoting unhealthiness, you're working towards shaming people who not only lead healthy lives but also have maybe or probably worked towards what they see as attractive.

 

[eternalb]

While I generally try to make sure everything that I post on this rapid-moving video game message board is 100% correct, sometimes I don't do heavy research into lolicon culture before posting about it here.

The one time you use it is the one time you might want to research it.

While I generally try to make sure everything that I post on this rapid-moving video game message board is 100% correct, sometimes I don't do heavy research into lolicon culture before posting about it here. I was under the impression that the woman with a youthful face and large breasts is a lolicon fantasy. Plenty of people have felt the need to correct that. I submit that there are people here who understand lolicon culture better than I. I am okay with that.

You seem to be under a lot of mistaken impressions.

 

[Schobeleth]

Your post reads as extremely egoistic "I know it all" -bullshit.

A homophobic joke... The saying "You see what you want to see" is very apt here, as many also did not consider it to be homophobic in any meaning of the word. This has become too common of a problem, as people begin to be afraid of what they have to say, just because "some" individuals may misinterpret their message.

Sexual objectification? Why objectification? Why not just sexualization? What exactly is objectifying about the gif's we have seen from Dragon's Crown? Please, tell me. You see what you want to see. What most of us see, is an exaggerated portrayal of an attractive female magician. What do you see? Lolicon imagery? What do you see in Victoria's Secret commercials? Still lolicon imagery? What do you see in night clubs? Lolicon cosplay actors? A lot of movies aimed at women tend to feature some hot shirtless guys, because women naturally like that. And men naturally like the opposite. And both of those are ok.

Honestly, this is not about sexism or misogyny. This is about your (and some others) attitude towards sex and nudity. Some people take offense to that, I understand, but that does not make it wrong. Some people feel awkward on beaches, in clubs, etc, because of the culture, but that does not make it wrong. Some parents close their children's eyes, during sex scenes, because they are afraid of how they may interpret that. But that, does, not, make, sex, wrong. People are different, and different age brackets treat things differently. And Dragon's Crown is a game aimed at young adults. It should not try and diversify its target group for your, or anyone else's sake. People should not concede their preferences in the favor of someone else. This is the reason, why we have so many different products in the world. Because, people like different things.

Old man yells at cloud. You are complaining about the wrong things. The problems in the video game industry that can be reflected as sexism, are exactly what you are portraying here. Guys talking with guys, about what is best for women. The problem is the condescending tone towards women within executive business. The problem is the condescending tone in general. The problem is not art.

You may wonder; why is gaming predominantly male. Is it really? Or is the gaming you perceive 'real gaming' predominantly male. Women play. Women play mobile games, women play Wii games, women play Kinect games, women play all kinds of games. Do you not consider these games 'real games'? They are. They are just a different style of games. It is about preferences. Why do women tend to prefer romantic movies, and guys violent movies? Because of preferences. People are different. Women play games, and men play games. They just play different genres of games. Don't try to act all 'holier than thou' and force niches to cater to everyone, because that is something that cannot be forced.

I actually feel bad that I didn't read this post, because I assumed it was yet another person trying to string together some more nonsense to back up their dislike of the art style in Dragon's Crown, because honestly that's all this is about.

As many seem to be praising this post i'll just say it's a bunch of a bullshit.

And? What do you people fucking expect. He could say you are in the "echo-chamber" of NeoGAF, Reddit or whatever feminist hating corner of the internet. Not only that, but you really think these people don't get opposing views on Twitter? They get it all day long. Let's stick to the arguments.

First of all, none of us have said that we are against women or feminists. We are simply trying to say that this game is in no shape or form what they're making it out to be. They're just spinning this to get hits, just like the original article that was purely and simply - click bait.

Second of all, it's one thing to say they dislike something but to say that it's outrightly wrong, and or that people who like it are wrong, is condescending and it's annoying. I'm so tired of these morons in their white towers condescending to people who just enjoy games with attractive people, men or women. I guess in their world games are not stylized at all, everything will have normal looking people wearing normal clothes and we'll just start reliving reality in our games because god forbid some of us want to experience a fantasy world with fantasy styled characters.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

While I generally try to make sure everything that I post on this rapid-moving video game message board is 100% correct, sometimes I don't do heavy research into lolicon culture before posting about it here. I was under the impression that the woman with a youthful face and large breasts is a lolicon fantasy. Plenty of people have felt the need to correct that. I submit that there are people here who understand lolicon culture better than I. I am okay with that.

Google search, there is even a wikipedia article.

 

[Metroidvania]

You know, a whole lot of people have been sending me nasty messages about this (while ignoring the rest of that post it came from). I was under the impression that a woman with a young girl's face and large breasts could be "lolicon," but I am not exactly an expert on lolicon culture. If I'm wrong, I apologize for the error.

Yet you felt fine using it to criticize someone's work as part of the article, especially with certain connotations surrounding the phrase?

But, look, I really don't care if you like the designs of the sorceress. You're allowed to enjoy cartoon witches with giant breasts in skimpy clothing. I'm just baffled at how many people don't see why people like me consider it problematic.

A female character having large breasts that flop around during casting is not automatically problematic or even indicative on its own as being inherently sexist or misogynistic.

Is it potentially tasteless or sexual? Absolutely.

But I fail to see how simply having breast physics equates to something more indicative of a large sexism problem as opposed to something like, say, the lack of lead female character agency in gaming.

While I generally try to make sure everything that I post on this rapid-moving video game message board is 100% correct, sometimes I don't do heavy research into lolicon culture before posting about it here. I was under the impression that the woman with a youthful face and large breasts is a lolicon fantasy. Plenty of people have felt the need to correct that. I submit that there are people here who understand lolicon culture better than I. I am okay with that.

And now passive-aggressive judgments roll in. Awesome.

You used it as part of your critique. You're throwing out words you admit to not understanding as part of an criticism/attack on an artist and people who enjoy the artwork.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

I wonder how large-breasted, thick-legged, wide-hipped women feel about all this. I know I would be devastated.

Sure, it's a caricature but this kind of discussion can be harmful for people who find their figures similar to that of the one under discussion.

Before you say I'm joking, stop. I'm serious. Think of how that sorceress would look in a more realistic art style. Now, would you say that there's no people who look like that? Is there no people who would perceive themselves as looking like that?

What you are effectively doing is saying that they are disgusting, offensive, grotesque and they probably should not exist. While society works towards fat acceptance which is promoting unhealthiness, you're working towards shaming people who not only lead healthy lives but also have maybe or probably worked towards what they see as attractive.

Basically "you are bad for this culture" if you have these things, and decide to show it off in any way. That's apparently toxic and damaging. It'd be a bit different if she was like "n..no! my shirt!" or some junk, I dunno. ugh. I don't like that a particular female form and how one would present it within their own realm of choice should be shamed.

 

[Jathaine]

I wonder how large-breasted, thick-legged, wide-hipped women feel about all this. I know I would be devastated.

Sure, it's a caricature but this kind of discussion can be harmful for people who find their figures similar to that of the one under discussion.

Before you say I'm joking, stop. I'm serious. Think of how that sorceress would look in a more realistic art style. Now, would you say that there's no people who look like that? Is there no people who would perceive themselves as looking like that?

What you are effectively doing is saying that they are disgusting, offensive, grotesque and they probably should not exist. While society works towards fat acceptance which is promoting unhealthiness, you're working towards shaming people who not only lead healthy lives but also have maybe or probably worked towards what they see as attractive.

 

[zoukka]

While I generally try to make sure everything that I post on this rapid-moving video game message board is 100% correct, sometimes I don't do heavy research into lolicon culture before posting about it here. I was under the impression that the woman with a youthful face and large breasts is a lolicon fantasy. Plenty of people have felt the need to correct that. I submit that there are people here who understand lolicon culture better than I. I am okay with that.

Just casually turning poor research and writing somehow into a good thing.

 

[spwolf]

https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=@jasonschreier&src=typd

so where are those "thousands nasty messages"?

I think you are mistaking thousands with few hundred and "nasty" with people politely disagreeing with you. I looked through few of them, didnt see anything nasty. Unless I am seeing only 0.01% of messages you got, you certainly did not get thousands nasty messages.

 

[Giolon]

You know, a whole lot of people have been sending me nasty messages about this (while ignoring the rest of that post it came from). I was under the impression that a woman with a young girl's face and large breasts could be "lolicon," but I am not exactly an expert on lolicon culture. If I'm wrong, I apologize for the error.

But, look, I really don't care if you like the designs of the sorceress. You're allowed to enjoy cartoon witches with giant breasts in skimpy clothing. I'm just baffled at how many people don't see why people like me consider it problematic.

Can you see why people are going to be upset about being accused of pedophilia?

I can see why some people wouldn't like the Sorceress's design. I agree that it is unrealistic. I agree that is absurd. I agree that it's grotesque. I don't agree with either the assertion that it's problematic or harmful, and I don't agree that it's out of line with the style of the rest of the characters in the game. I don't agree that it's embarrassing or demeaning in context.

If you plopped the Sorceress into the middle of, say, Call of Duty and everyone looked normal and you've then got this hyper-exaggerated sexual female character in the middle of it all completely out of line with everything else in the design, I'd say you have something to question.

However, in a product with a cohesively stylized world, with a myriad of character designs, including female ones that are not exaggerated in the same way, I cannot agree that the artist should not have done this or that anyone who appreciates what has been done should be ashamed or ostracized for doing so.

 

[jschreier]

I wonder how large-breasted, thick-legged, wide-hipped women feel about all this. I know I would be devastated.

Sure, it's a caricature but this kind of discussion can be harmful for people who find their figures similar to that of the one under discussion.

Before you say I'm joking, stop. I'm serious. Think of how that sorceress would look in a more realistic art style. Now, would you say that there's no people who look like that? Is there no people who would perceive themselves as looking like that?

What you are effectively doing is saying that they are disgusting, offensive, grotesque and they probably should not exist. While society works towards fat acceptance which is promoting unhealthiness, you're working towards shaming people who not only lead healthy lives but also have maybe or probably worked towards what they see as attractive.

This is not an issue of body type. This is an issue of a character who is portrayed as a sexual object, in a culture that has the nasty tendency to treat women like second-class citizens. I'm not sure how to make that any clearer.

 

[Jathaine]

This is not an issue of body type. This is an issue of a character who is portrayed as a sexual object, in a culture that has the nasty tendency to treat women like second-class citizens. I'm not sure how to make that any clearer.

What are you basing this on other than her appearance though?

 

[Ragingnight]

I think everybody understands why some "might" have a problem with it. That still doesn't change a fucking thing. If their job was create a game that would not offend anybody then they might as well quit now, but last I checked it wasn't their job to do that.

People just want to crusade on issues they have issues with just because it offends them. Doesn't matter who they step on as long as they have their way.

This is not an issue of body type. This is an issue of a character who is portrayed as a sexual object, in a culture that has the nasty tendency to treat women like second-class citizens. I'm not sure how to make that any clearer.

So basically you're saying is no country should be making any game that portray women in a sexual manner.

Where was the bitching back when Chun Li was popular in SF2? Or Mai in KOF?

 

[AlimNassor]

Honestly this thread has turn vile. It's become heated too heated. Too many people are letting their tempers get the better of them. I kinda am getting a huge negative vibe for this topic.

 

[jschreier]

Yet you felt fine using it to criticize someone's work as part of the article, especially with certain connotations surrounding the phrase?

I did not use the word "lolicon" in any articles. I used it in a message board post.

 

[eternalb]

I'm not sure how to make that any clearer.

Not using words you don't know the meaning of would be a good start.

 

[not psycho]

Oh man. This thread.

I wonder if that is what Kamitani thought when he read what you said. "Oh man."

This guy accusing me of drawing my art to appeal to lolicons and linking me with sexual harassment, workplace discrimination, and questioning of women's gaming credibility. And he doesn't have the decency to even argue for it, he just smears me with it.

Oh man.

Well, gotta apologize now.

 

[pixlexic]

I think everybody understands why some "might" have a problem with it. That still doesn't change a fucking thing. If their job was create a game that would not offend anybody then they might as well quit now, but last I checked it wasn't their job to do that.

People just want to crusade on issues they have issues with just because it offends them. Doesn't matter who they step on as long as they have their way.

Some people just want to seem like they are offended just to get praise from people who really are.

 

[Hrothgar]

This is not an issue of body type. This is an issue of a character who is portrayed as a sexual object, in a culture that has the nasty tendency to treat women like second-class citizens. I'm not sure how to make that any clearer.

I must be living on a different planet. I had no idea it was this bad in your part of the universe.

 

[Delusibeta]

While I generally try to make sure everything that I post on this rapid-moving video game message board is 100% correct, sometimes I don't do heavy research into lolicon culture before posting about it here. I was under the impression that the woman with a youthful face and large breasts is a lolicon fantasy. Plenty of people have felt the need to correct that. I submit that there are people here who understand lolicon culture better than I. I am okay with that.

It's a bit like arguing that the UK version of Skins is pedohpilic because under 18s having sex is a plot point. Spoiler alert: no it isn't, since a) the UK age of consent is 16 and b) there's not much in the way of sex in it in the first place.

 

[jschreier]

Some people just want to seem like they are offended just to get praise from people who really are.

OK. As much as I would like to actually have a discussion, the nastiness and accusations in this thread are getting a bit too much for me.

 

[Aretak]

But, look, I really don't care if you like the designs of the sorceress. You're allowed to enjoy cartoon witches with giant breasts in skimpy clothing. I'm just baffled at how many people don't see why people like me consider it problematic.

I'm equally baffled at how somebody could hold the opinion that the female character designs in Dragon's Crown are problematic, yet completely ignore the fact it also features stereotypical, idealised depictions of the male form as well (and seemingly have no problem with that). From where I'm sitting, DC features two utterly ridiculous depictions of the female form, two utterly ridiculous depictions of the male form and then one pretty reasonable (if anime-styled) character of each sex. Is that not equality?

I could totally buy into the argument that DC's character design is just gross all-round, but the singling out of the female characters for analysis, whilst completing ignoring the walking pile of muscles with a face drawn on the top and the generic pretty boy with a Superman chest and matchstick legs, just seems like pushing an agenda, even if this game doesn't actually fit it.

 

[JABEE]

The writer has done the rightful thing...and jumped on twitter's echo chamber:

That gif is giving me Jason the vapors.

People can disagree with you for you calling the person who made the art for this game "a 14-year old."

Not everyone is as puritanical as you. I don't have a problem with someone playing these games. Standing on a pedestal and insulting an artist and fans of this game is not a way to start a non-toxic discussion.

Being disingenuous about your intent when called out on your snarkiness is kind of a sneaky move.

 

[badgenome]

This is not an issue of body type. This is an issue of a character who is portrayed as a sexual object, in a culture that has the nasty tendency to treat women like second-class citizens. I'm not sure how to make that any clearer.

So, every sexy female character is a sex object? I mean, I could see how you might reach the conclusion that the sorceress is a sex object if she were a damsel in distress rather than a co-equal playable character, or if we knew anything about her character at all that might point in that direction. But she isn't and we don't, so it seems like you actually are making it all about body type.

 

[AlucardGV]

wonder if DC will become vanillaware best selling game with all this free marketing.
maybe they'll hire Jason to write articles about their games

 

[Schobeleth]

This is not an issue of body type. This is an issue of a character who is portrayed as a sexual object, in a culture that has the nasty tendency to treat women like second-class citizens. I'm not sure how to make that any clearer.

I'm not sure what America you're living in, but equal rights for women have made a lot of progress - sure there are still some barriers like equal pay and stuff but generally I think women are much better off here than they are in say - the middle east (where they literally are second class citizens).