Two points on this. One, as others have noted I think, eliminating used games won't drive those consumers into the arms of the $60 new market. They'll just stop buying games. Two, and I haven't seen this, does Microsoft still plan on selling One games in retail stores? Obviously, yes. Result? You will NEVER see Steam style sales on the One storefront. Nintendo can't even sell their games for five bucks less, for fear of angering retailers. You think Best Buy is going to purchase games from Microsoft to sell for $60, when it knows Microsoft is going to sell it for $10 six months later online?
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PA Report - The Xbox One will kill used games, that's good
- Thread starter hardcastlemccormick
- Start date
GravityMan
Member
There will be a huge desire (possibly on an unprecedented scale) for people to crack the Xbox One. And it will be cracked. Quickly. Trying to eliminate the used game market will not curb piracy. Likely the opposite.
Oh, and as long as people are willing to spend the money, X1 retail games will likely still be $59.99, possibly higher.
Oh, and as long as people are willing to spend the money, X1 retail games will likely still be $59.99, possibly higher.
The problem most in here seem to have is by doing that you are just make their pockets fatter and they won't care about the consumer and therefore won't pass the saving onto us.
jeezuz, you sound like a dictator. Rights are whatever the lawmakers and courts decide they are, and in the usa the right of first sale is real.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Oh hey, after three years on the market they put it on sale for us peons! How nice, and by the way, have you seen what the game goes for on ebay? Not so competitive in a market where consumers have the freedom to do what they want with their games.
how bad is piracy on PS3? I don't really hear much about it. Or Vita.
If you have a secure system, that can help against piracy too. And likewise, if you have a very insecure system, I don't see how online authentication will help, as that would potentially be patched out. If eg Wii had online DRM, that would probably have been hacked out long ago.
the used game comments are the usual argument, and there is no clear answer to it and both sides have entrenched positions
If you have a secure system, that can help against piracy too. And likewise, if you have a very insecure system, I don't see how online authentication will help, as that would potentially be patched out. If eg Wii had online DRM, that would probably have been hacked out long ago.
the used game comments are the usual argument, and there is no clear answer to it and both sides have entrenched positions
They are. Absolutely, 100%.
The issue is that publishers, and now apparently gaming media, think the problem is the distribution model and, by extension, the consumer. It isn't.
Consumers should not have to absorb the consequences of decisions made by publishers. If you make bad investments, you'll lose. Every time.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
It all boils down to this incredibly simple fact:
Corporations are not your friends.
They do not have your best interest at heart. They exist to make money, and because our society places no theoretical cap on how much profit you can generate, their endgame is an infinite and unattainable goal which they are always striving to reach. Everything they do, every sliver of "give" they sacrifice from that profit margin is because of competition and not out of the kindness of their hearts. They want as much of your money as they can get while giving you as little as they possibly have to in return and anything you do to give up what rights you have turns this tug of war further and further in their favor.
Corporations are not your friends.
They do not have your best interest at heart. They exist to make money, and because our society places no theoretical cap on how much profit you can generate, their endgame is an infinite and unattainable goal which they are always striving to reach. Everything they do, every sliver of "give" they sacrifice from that profit margin is because of competition and not out of the kindness of their hearts. They want as much of your money as they can get while giving you as little as they possibly have to in return and anything you do to give up what rights you have turns this tug of war further and further in their favor.
BlastProcessing
Member
Your backpedal is pretty good, you ever think of trying out for a job as an NFL corner?
Ace Harding
Member
Holy shit. Valve is so fucked when someone finds out about this.
PA have always been sort of dicks.
Not really surprising their stance on this. They really hate what they perceive as "entitled gamers".
You're not buying and selling gold
No need to be daft
Through a publisher maintained used game system you still have the savings of used games with 100% revenue rollover but that used game itself doesn't damage the industry
It's the exact opposite of the steam thinking. Piracy was super easy on PC. Give people cheap prices and enough incentives and they'll stop pirating and buy games.
fucking Ben Kuchera. The dude is about as pretentious and entitled as a journalist can get. He's basically the larval stage of Leigh Alexander at this point.
Comparisons of XBONE's DRM to Steam do not fucking hold up. The PC is a platform not tied to any one piece of hardware. Steam will fucking move to other machines. If Microsoft wanted to do this, they could have been doing it already but they're not.
Comparisons of XBONE's DRM to Steam do not fucking hold up. The PC is a platform not tied to any one piece of hardware. Steam will fucking move to other machines. If Microsoft wanted to do this, they could have been doing it already but they're not.
Um, wrong. Federal law & the First Sale Doctrine would like to have a word with you on that. Even in Europe, doing something like preventing second hand sales is illegal.
If there were a way to eliminate used games that put more money into the pockets of game creators, kept the rights to content you own flexible, and wasn't centralized I'd be all for it. I really don't mind the way Steam or iOS apps work. This is the least of my problems with the XBone.
Laugh all you want:
Fortunately, our friends across the pond in Europe are no longer held back by EULAs that state users cant resell their digitally downloaded software, whether that be games or other software like Photoshop. In a recent ruling, the European Court of Justice did away with companies ability to stop people from selling used software.
You Will Be Able To Resell Your Steam Games In Europe
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
actually, i think they will.
Are you an economist?
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
And has absolutely zero competition. Consumers lose yet again.
You don't have to be qualified to point out someone isn't qualified.
Thank you.
Ace Harding
Member
Do you want to buy this old album I bought on iTunes? I don't listen to it anymore.
Customer buy game A for $60
Customer wants to buy game B, but can't afford it or finds it's not worth $60
What happened to the publisher?
They made $50~ and missed and opportunity to expose a gamer to a new IP, sell new DLC or otherwise extend their relationship with the gamer
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
I still say a large part of the reason the industry is hurting is because every profit model is based around an arbitrary unit cost established when the largest portion of the consumer base was 8, and now that they are old enough to know better, the industry insists that consumer demand should not dictate pricing, their budgets should. Rather than admitting this is an unsustainable model, they choose to rally against scapegoats and treat consumers like criminals.
I know nothing about economics, does this happen a lot in other industries?
I know nothing about economics, does this happen a lot in other industries?
BINGO.
You know what makes them special? They have willing customers. The video game market is so full of enablers it's unbelievable. The console fanboys, the warriors, and all the defense forces (PA included) seem to have this illusion that they have this symbiotic relationship with game companies.
I've never seen a market with such a misguided passion for a consumer product as much as this one. Nothing will ever get in their way to get the bleeding edge game.
faceless007
Member
First-sale applies primarily to tangible copies. A DD-only marketplace is theoretically not susceptible to first-sale concerns, though this has not been fully clarified in the law yet.
Probably been said already (haven't read the whole thread), but the stuff in the first paragraph quoted in the OP will probably encourage MORE people to try piracy than discourage it. Once someone cracks the thing (and they'll try), a lot of people will just torrent games like they've been torrenting 360 games not only to get them for free, but also to get around the online and account lock requirement.
Maybe the console manufacturers don't listen to companies like Valve because they don't really pay attention to them. Maybe they still don't think what happens in the PC space has relevance in the console space. For whatever reason, they're almost the only game company that's said and pretty much proven that the proper way to clamp down on piracy is to take away people's reasons for engaging in piracy, not add to them.
Maybe the console manufacturers don't listen to companies like Valve because they don't really pay attention to them. Maybe they still don't think what happens in the PC space has relevance in the console space. For whatever reason, they're almost the only game company that's said and pretty much proven that the proper way to clamp down on piracy is to take away people's reasons for engaging in piracy, not add to them.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Spot on...also to hell with PA
So do I; most don't trust them at all.
First Sale Doctrine. Publishers don't have the rights to further reimbursement after the initial sale.
KojiKnight
Member
Steam doesn't use a ridiculous amount of DRM... Buy a game, if it doesn't have an online component go into offline mode. You can now use your game without being connected to the internet for as long as you want on any computer you want. Tah dah!!
crack dealers and their customers?
It's $1 on PC right now. You get American Nightmare too. :^)
First sale doctrine doesn't apply to software licenses
So, let's take GM in 2008 as an example. Their car market was unsustainable - GM was losing money fast.
The solution? Obviously -- ban buying non-GM cars or at least non-american cars!
This solution is blatantly unethical, violates consumer choice and consumer protection and is probably unlawful and monopolistic, but GM will get so many sales, they can lower prices! And these lower prices will help consumers. Will GM lower prices? Probably -- and if not they deserve to die, though there's really no upside on their part as by that point consumers are already locked in to only GM cars.
^ basically PA's argument here is this, but more subtle.
The solution? Obviously -- ban buying non-GM cars or at least non-american cars!
This solution is blatantly unethical, violates consumer choice and consumer protection and is probably unlawful and monopolistic, but GM will get so many sales, they can lower prices! And these lower prices will help consumers. Will GM lower prices? Probably -- and if not they deserve to die, though there's really no upside on their part as by that point consumers are already locked in to only GM cars.
^ basically PA's argument here is this, but more subtle.
BibiMaghoo
Member
has that been established via supreme court yet? I really don't know. & it does in europe.
mightynine
Member
Unless the budget for the game drops dramatically, there's no reason for prices to go down.
No, but but the point is you don't get to use that as an argument to discredit someone's opinion when you aren't "qualified" either.
Not being an economist sure as fuck didn't stop anyone from giving their opinions in the last 48 hours now did it?
Ace Harding
Member
Right. You can buy my used copy of Starcraft 2 on disc. Nobody is stopping you. It just won't work unless you pay Blactivision for it.
Until the courts have indicated otherwise, you don't have the right to re-sell digital content.
And you have no argument getting up in arms about it in this case unless you are equally up in arms about Valve, Apple, and all sorts of other companies that do the same thing.
Omegasquash
Member
The PA Report sometimes has opinions that I don't agree with, and I don't call it a journalistic outlet by any means, but PA does some good work, notably Child's Play. I don't think it's fair to judge it by the PA Report alone.
Edit: And when I say "sometimes" I mean often. I find myself increasingly in disagreement with the opinions of the PA Report of late.
RedNumberFive
Banned
No, but a cursory glance at "Economics for Dummies" would provide a more educated oped than this bowel movement.