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[tirminyl]

This sucks.

Although it is funny to see the hypocrites who swore they'd never pay for online suddenly find justification in paying for it. Weird how quickly people's tunes change once they don't have that argument anymore.

I'm not finding justification for it because I am already a Plus subscriber but I agree, it sucks!

I feel that I should not have to pay to play online. I would then buy multiplayer games (if I played any) on the PC and if I couldn't then I just wouldn't pay.

Now if I say "I won't pay to play online" people will just look at my golden plus and say "sure". See what you've done to me Sony? You've made me hate myself.

 

[xJavonta]

LOL, okay. You personally haven't seen anyone who had a problem paying for something they wanted to pay for? No shit. Try again. You almost had it when you said the word principle. Almost. No go read a couple posts, and think about it.

Way to spin something

I never said I haven't seen anyone who had a problem paying for something they wanted to pay for. Never.

I said "Don't care, PS+ subscriber anyway and I don't know a single person that hasn't been satisfied with their PS+ sub."

But since you want to be an asshole to people, I'll just leave you here to get your inevitable ban and stop responding to you.

 

[Bailers]

Do you know why I never bought a 360? I'll only give you one guess.

The term 360 brings back horrible memories of your childhood?

 

[rashbeep]

So it's a principle thing. Got it.

Pretty much, and expect big companies to take further advantage of gamers because they just fucking allow crap like this to fly. I don't even want to know what will happen if the Xbone is actually successful.

 

[rac]

I said "Don't care, PS+ subscriber anyway and I don't know a single person that hasn't been satisfied with their PS+ sub."

You don't know a single person that hasn't been satisfied with their ps+ sub because it hasn't been forced on anyone. Now that ps+ is required to play online people are now forced to pay for it to access content on a disc they've already payed for.

 

[macewank]

I'm OK with the PS+ paywall.. Already a member, and I pay for XBL Gold too.

I do hope, though, for the sake of the community that they exempt the F2P titles from this. Let everyone in!

 

[Woorloog]

Wikipedia claims:
"Each subscription is tied to the console rather than the individual account - meaning multiple accounts on one console can play online multiplayer without having to purchase an individual subscription for each account."

Is this real? No citation on this part.
If real, excellent. OTOH, what if i try to play on my friend's PS4?

 

[Dead Man]

Way to spin something

I never said I haven't seen anyone who had a problem paying for something they wanted to pay for. Never.

I said "Don't care, PS+ subscriber anyway and I don't know a single person that hasn't been satisfied with their PS+ sub."

But since you want to be an asshole to people, I'll just leave you here to get your inevitable ban and stop responding to you.

No, you didn't:

I personally haven't encountered anyone that has had a problem paying for a service they want to use.

That's what you said. People have been paying for the service, by paying Sony for the console, and publishers for the games, who pay a license fee to Sony. Being asked to pay again is what the problem is.

The term 360 brings back horrible memories of your childhood?

Those damn circles, they haunt me!!

 

[xJavonta]

Pretty much, and expect big companies to take further advantage of gamers because they just fucking allow crap like this to fly. I don't even want to know what will happen if the Xbone is actually successful.

I don't know how much worse it can get. I mean, we had fucking online passes this gen.

You don't know a single person that hasn't been satisfied with their ps+ sub because it hasn't been forced on anyone. Now that ps+ is required to play online people are now forced to pay for it to access content on a disc they've already payed for.

It still isn't forced on anyone, but in order to access servers that they're paying for, you have to pay them. Which I get. I also get why people are upset over it now. It was inevitable though, maybe the #PS4FreeOnline should have been a thing in conjunction to #PS4noDRM

 

[rac]

I don't know how much worse it can get. I mean, we had fucking online passes this gen.


It still isn't forced on anyone, but in order to access servers that they're paying for, you have to pay them. Which I get. I also get why people are upset over it now. It was inevitable though, maybe the #PS4FreeOnline should have been a thing in conjunction to #PS4noDRM

In order to access content that is on the disc I payed for I have to pay extra. Got it.

edit: They could offer games stripped of their mp content for less money. At least then there would be a little give and take in the relationship.

 

[Gintoki313]

Don't care, PS+ subscriber anyway and I don't know a single person that hasn't been satisfied with their PS+ sub.

Is it that you guys can't afford $5mo/$18x3mo/$50yr, or the principle or some other shit like that? I really don't get it.

Then again, I've been an XBLG subscriber forever and bought PS+ when I got a Vita and PS3 so it's known that I have no problem paying monthly for a service I'll use.

I'm right with you on that.

I see it this way, if you want a PS4 or Xbox One for next gen, your gonna pay regardless. Unless you go Wii U or PC only next gen, you might as well pay once and get it over with and enjoy either one. Also if someone plans on getting a PS4 and you hear about needing a PS+ for online, they should get that ready when purchasing it. Kinda like getting a sub to WOW. If you plan on playing WOW for a real long time and really want it, then sub if you want. If you don't want to play it, then don't. Kinda like online for PS+ is if you think about it.

I can see about the whole being held down on a sub deal, and getting a PS3 over a 360 just for this reason. That excuse actually sounds reasonable.

Personally I see more stuff I want from PS+ and I actually want it for PS3 and my Vita right now. I may not like the paywall for online but as long as PS+ keeps being great, I don't mind.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

You don't know a single person that hasn't been satisfied with their ps+ sub because it hasn't been forced on anyone. Now that ps+ is required to play online people are now forced to pay for it to access content on a disc they've already payed for.

I will let you know. From what I have heard it is excellent value and if I purchase a 12 month sub from Amazon it works out to 10 pence a day.

It bothered me more that Jack was subtle to the point that I missed it in the PC. There was no need to really.

 

[NullPointer]

In order to access content that is on the disc I payed for I have to pay extra. Got it.

edit: They could offer games stripped of their mp content for less money. At least then there would be a little give and take in the relationship.

Yep.

They could raise the prices of games too but this way they'll make far more over time.

 

[CrunchyB]

I own a modern gaming PC.

This last E3 has shown me countless similar looking FPS games. Most will appear on PC, and all will look better. They will be free to play online on my PC. They will probably be cheaper on PC.

Thanks for making my choice for me, Sony!

 

[jmdajr]

It's fine. Surprised it took this long.

 

[xJavonta]

The thing is, even though a lot of people don't like it, they'll still pay for it. And as long as that keeps happening, this will keep happening.

 

[OddworldBOY]

I'd also like to know this. Is there a family plan or sharing with PSN+?

Ok so they confirmed it. article on N4G. Having your master account have PS+ unlocks everything for your family. Crisis deverted. PS4 is still the greatest thing ever.

 

[i-Jest]

#noPS+required

Who's on board for the movement? IF we can hash tag the fuck out of no DRM we can do this. We should not underestimate our power as consumers. I loved the PS3 for its region free software. Its free online service was a great move imo. It was apart of the reason I decided to go PS3 instead of 360. Although the 360 provided a greater online experience, I never regretted my choice. PS+ just served to sweeten the deal. Now it's required? Sony, please stop this madness. You have an overwhelming number of gamers looking to the PS4 instead of the Xbone. Don't ruin your momentum with this paid service. It's not worth it in the long run.

 

[Dominican Power]

I'm tired of these "it's okay because I'm already a + member" posts. What about the people who only care about playing online only?

 

[damaph]

I'm tired of these "it's okay because I'm already a + member" posts. What about the people who only care about playing online only?

Me too. The quality of PS+ games will mostly most likely go down too since now Sony does not have to give consumers an incentive for subscribing since everyone is forced to pay if they want to play online.

 

[TheSeks]

#noPS+required

Who's on board for the movement? IF we can hash tag the fuck out of no DRM we can do this. We should not underestimate our power as consumers.

The problem is:

1) GAF's mindshare of "meh, I already have PS+/it isn't so bad having PS+" is too strong for those of us that don't see the value in PS+ (because it gives us things we already have/etc.) to where you can't really get a movement for this going since even outside of GAF this is the general sentiment (sadly) and
2) The hashtag didn't work. Sony already had plans to not do DRM just they weren't concrete until now. All the hashtag did was make a publicity stunt for Sony with a "we hear you." Maybe that's just me being cynical but I don't believe for one second a hashtag and numerous write-ups changed Sony's policies. They already had seen the backlash (like a week or so before the hashtag campaign?) to the X-box DRM online and already had vague hints they weren't going that route. I don't think we can tell them "drop that forced money on a table and let us play online for free" to change that. They saw the money MS was making with Gold to where people are just going to do #1 and allow the to take that free money.

It sucks, but yeah: I don't think fighting it here is going to change anything. So as it is I'm pretty much going to Steam or PC where additional charges for most genres aren't going to be forced on me additionally if and when I want to play multiplayer.

 

[Jobbs]

360 has required gold to play online for the past forever. Considering what xbone is doing, I'll overlook this quite easily. Especially considering that PSN+ is actually worth getting.

 

[Dominican Power]

So now it's okay because MS has doing been doing this forever? So not only you're going to pay Sony to play online but you're going to pay an additional fee to play online when you buy a used game. I'm tired of these console manufacturers/publishers nickle and diming us to death.

 

[statham]

what does PSN+ provide a user switching from 360 to PS4 for the first 6 months. I know you get a limited Drive, but they need something more. They should provide PS+ free for the first 6 months so they can start adding games to it afterwards.

 

[pot]

This is lame. Between this and the DRM on xbox, I might go back to only dating the master PC race.

 

[DESTROYA]

I'm OK with this, not a huge multiplayer but if we get free games by being a PS + member I think of it as the online play as a bonus.

 

[Crimsonlink]

I'm not particularly happy with this.

However as a console, the PS4 has games I want to enjoy even if I have to pay for the MP.

Is it really worth missing out on games exclusive to PS4 just to avoid paying for MP?

In my case no. Mostly because I play single player games and have PSN+ until 2015 and $50 isn't enough to cause me to not pay for it anyways. Along with the games announced for the system.

I can understand the anger over this as again I'm not happy they did this and some people simply don't want to pay for online MP, especially with a service that was free beforehand and still is on PC and Wii U.

To them I say, make a choice. Stick to Wii U and/or PC and enjoy the free online or buy a PS4 or for some reason Xbone for their games and pay for the online.

To me personally its a small price to pay and I think Sony had a brilliant strategy in introducing it right after their No DRM message. Do I agree with it? No. But compared to Xbone its still the much better deal and while PC is free along with Wii U, they don't have the games I want on their system.

Now if PS4 had DRM, online DRM at that, that would be a different story, but it doesn't, so paying for online MP is sucky but I will do it for the games.

Plus Sony is really supporting the gamers even with this negative point on their board. No Region-lock, games, PSN+ still a good value and all the important stuff really so far.

I might change my tune in the future but as of now PSN+ for online MP sucks but I will take it for the sake of the games and that I don't mind all too much.

 

[Cidd]

I'm already a plus member so I'm ok with this, I hope this means with the extra cash they can maintain stable services and servers.

and More media apps.

 

[alstein]

The problem is:


It sucks, but yeah: I don't think fighting it here is going to change anything. So as it is I'm pretty much going to Steam or PC where additional charges for most genres aren't going to be forced on me additionally if and when I want to play multiplayer.

I'm worried that a successful PS4 might make Steam try to pull some crap, but even if they do there are alternatives.

You make my points as well- our best hope if that Fighting game ports move over to PC- I'm really hoping Skullgirls and MK do well now.

 

[Loakum]

Ya'll crying about having to pay the price of ONE GAME, in order to play online? Kids today feel like they're ENTITLED to free shit all the time. People, having internet servers costs money! Espeically since PS4 owners will have a completely new online experience! Not to mention, Sony just poured in tons of money for their new online security measures. Stuff costs MONEY!

besides being a Playstation Plus member is a great value! All the free games, makes it a steal for only $60.

PS4Life

 

[statham]

Ya'll crying about having to pay the price of ONE GAME, in order to play online? Kids today feel like they're ENTITLED to free shit all the time. People, having internet servers costs money! Espeically since PS4 owners will have a completely new online experience! Not to mention, Sony just poured in tons of money for their new online security measures. Stuff costs MONEY!

besides being a Playstation Plus member is a great value! All the free games, makes it a steal for only $60.

PS4Life

I love the bold.

 

[Zep]

Just paid $80 for two years of PS Plus. Hopefully there will be another 12+3 special and I can redeem one of them.

 

[antitrop]

I'm okay with it. Nothing really more than that. It is an acceptable term to me.

I do own a PS3, but I am not currently a PSN+ member.

 

[erlim]

I wonder if we as consumers brought this on to ourselves. I don't know off hand, but xbox live has more users than psn right? We kinda prove we don't mind paying for online or 60$ for games and $80 for special editions and so on.

 

[Ricko Suave]

Eh, they've been killing it. Besides PS+ is still a great value.

But what if its just like XBLG? We pay to play online, but we dont get any of the stuff we get now. Will we have to shell out more money to get PS+GOLD or some shit? I hope not.

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

Why should I pay for online on PS4 when I can play multiplayer on PC where the vast majority of games have always had free online gaming? I'm not seeing how this benefits the consumer, in fact it only serves to decrease the size of online gaming multiplayer communities. There are already hundreds of online games that have died premature deaths, charging for online multiplayer only exacerbates the problem.

PS+ was a great service because you could already play online for free on PS3 before it was introduced. They had no choice but to offer something like free games and discounts to make it worthwhile to the consumer. I'd love to be wrong, but I don't see Sony continuing to provide that same value far into the future now that you have no choice but to buy it if you want to play online. Also keep in mind that if Microsoft hadn't tried to Xbone it's customers with 24hr DRM checks, there's not a chance in hell Sony would have had the gall to start charging for online gaming. This way they got to screw their customers while coming out of E3 still looking like the good guy.

You're not seeing any benefit in getting access to 6 games per month? And you're not seeing any benefit in being to play PS4 exclusives online?

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

I wonder if we as consumers brought this on to ourselves. I don't know off hand, but xbox live has more users than psn right? We kinda prove we don't mind paying for online or 60$ for games and $80 for special editions and so on.

PSN has more accounts. Way more actually but it includes the duplicates. Gold has something like 25M subscribers. That's $1.5B in revenue yearly for MS.

 

[Jeramii]

Is there any official word to digital copies of games, and the limits per system you can install on?

I currently own two PS3's and always buy digital so I can put it on both of my systems (both in the same room of my home). So that way I can co-op with guests or my girlfriend. I don't really care if PS+ is required for us to play together. My only concern is will it be structured similar to the PS3?

If so, I'll drop the $800 for two systems, otherwise it'll be just one.

 

[alstein]

But what if its just like XBLG? We pay to play online, but we dont get any of the stuff we get now. Will we have to shell out more money to get PS+GOLD or some shit? I hope not.

It will depend on how well Xbone does. If it does well- we'll probably get quality close to what PS+ gives now. If Xbone gets Dreamcasted the quality will drop heavily.

You're not seeing any benefit in getting access to 6 games per month? And you're not seeing any benefit in being to play PS4 exclusives online?

What good is 6 games a month if you don't want to play any of them? The paywall is really going to turn off the folks who tend to play one genre heavily on console,or don't buy a ton of games.

 

[damaph]

You're not seeing any benefit in getting access to 6 games per month? And you're not seeing any benefit in being to play PS4 exclusives online?

It's only 1 PS4 game per month and Sony gets to choose what game. I would much rather buy and own my games. How is playing online a benefit? If I bought a PS4 game, then I expect to be able to play it and not get locked out of half the game.

 

[Qvoth]

Wikipedia claims:
"Each subscription is tied to the console rather than the individual account - meaning multiple accounts on one console can play online multiplayer without having to purchase an individual subscription for each account."

dunno about xbone, but it has been confirmed by yosp that 1 ps+ account per console is enough for MP

 

[infiniteheteroskdasticity]

I come to GAF a lot for color on what is both my hobby and my job - I cover gaming stocks for a hedge fund. I'd like to provide some friendly words of advice-

Get over it and stop sounding so entitled. MSFT and Sony aren't in this because its a charity and its right and proper that they expect a reasonable profit for their efforts. The X1 is very fairly priced but Sony especially has gone above and beyond to please the 'core' as represented here. For a company that just posted their first annual profit in four years, Sony alone had the b*lls to take a loss on every console sold. Perhaps everybody stupid enough to whine about this would prefer a $499/549 rrp but charging for online multiplayer (Not entertainment like Netflix etc) is one way to make a fraction of that back. With the rrp that low and no mp paywall to cushion the blow all the gifs in the world wouldn't save Kaz from his angry shareholders.

The PS4 is the most powerful game console ever made and they're selling you a hell of a lot for a ridiculously low (some might even say ill advised) rrp. I'm not even going to mention the entire DRM/used game angle. PC multiplayer might be free but equivalent hardware is 3x as expensive and all your favorite console games will be late/missing. GAF played a constructive role in helping Sony decide their ownership policies. Don't start whining about this and risk sounding to the outside world like a bunch of entitled kids that want everything for free.

 

[Jak140]

You're not seeing any benefit in getting access to 6 games per month? And you're not seeing any benefit in being to play PS4 exclusives online?

Did you completely ignore the rest of my post? Your reply does nothing to explain the benefit of putting multiplayer behind a paywall.

 

[Zep]

Did you completely ignore the rest of my post? Your reply does nothing to explain the benefit of putting multiplayer behind a paywall.

If putting it behind a paywall gets me dedicated servers for MLB The Show, It'll be $3.33 per month spent well.

 

[Jeramii]

I come to GAF a lot for color on what is both my hobby and my job - I cover gaming stocks for a hedge fund. I'd like to provide some friendly words of advice-

Get over it and stop sounding so entitled. MSFT and Sony aren't in this because its a charity and its right and proper that they expect a reasonable profit for their efforts. The X1 is very fairly priced but Sony especially has gone above and beyond to please the 'core' as represented here. For a company that just posted their first annual profit in four years, Sony alone had the b*lls to take a loss on every console sold. Perhaps everybody stupid enough to whine about this would prefer a $499/549 rrp but charging for online multiplayer (Not entertainment like Netflix etc) is one way to make a fraction of that back. With the rrp that low and no mp paywall to cushion the blow all the gifs in the world wouldn't save Kaz from his angry shareholders.

The PS4 is the most powerful game console ever made and they're selling you a hell of a lot for a ridiculously low (some might even say ill advised) rrp. I'm not even going to mention the entire DRM/used game angle. PC multiplayer might be free but equivalent hardware is 3x as expensive and all your favorite console games will be late/missing. GAF played a constructive role in helping Sony decide their ownership policies. Don't start whining about this and risk sounding to the outside world like a bunch of entitled kids that want everything for free.

I'm sitting next to someone who does international stock trading, she says you are full of shit. That entire first sentence was gibberish, please... Tell us more about the gaming hedge fund you work for. The gaming industry is tiny in the world of hedge funds, it's all part of a general electronics category, nothing you said is specific to what financial analysts do.

 

[Mesoian]

I come to GAF a lot for color on what is both my hobby and my job - I cover gaming stocks for a hedge fund. I'd like to provide some friendly words of advice-

Get over it and stop sounding so entitled. MSFT and Sony aren't in this because its a charity and its right and proper that they expect a reasonable profit for their efforts. The X1 is very fairly priced but Sony especially has gone above and beyond to please the 'core' as represented here. For a company that just posted their first annual profit in four years, Sony alone had the b*lls to take a loss on every console sold. Perhaps everybody stupid enough to whine about this would prefer a $499/549 rrp but charging for online multiplayer (Not entertainment like Netflix etc) is one way to make a fraction of that back. With the rrp that low and no mp paywall to cushion the blow all the gifs in the world wouldn't save Kaz from his angry shareholders.

The PS4 is the most powerful game console ever made and they're selling you a hell of a lot for a ridiculously low (some might even say ill advised) rrp. I'm not even going to mention the entire DRM/used game angle. PC multiplayer might be free but equivalent hardware is 3x as expensive and all your favorite console games will be late/missing. GAF played a constructive role in helping Sony decide their ownership policies. Don't start whining about this and risk sounding to the outside world like a bunch of entitled kids that want everything for free.

In other words: "Sit back and take it, it'll be over soon"

 

[Ricko Suave]

I come to GAF a lot for color on what is both my hobby and my job - I cover gaming stocks for a hedge fund. I'd like to provide some friendly words of advice-

Get over it and stop sounding so entitled. MSFT and Sony aren't in this because its a charity and its right and proper that they expect a reasonable profit for their efforts. The X1 is very fairly priced but Sony especially has gone above and beyond to please the 'core' as represented here. For a company that just posted their first annual profit in four years, Sony alone had the b*lls to take a loss on every console sold. Perhaps everybody stupid enough to whine about this would prefer a $499/549 rrp but charging for online multiplayer (Not entertainment like Netflix etc) is one way to make a fraction of that back. With the rrp that low and no mp paywall to cushion the blow all the gifs in the world wouldn't save Kaz from his angry shareholders.

The PS4 is the most powerful game console ever made and they're selling you a hell of a lot for a ridiculously low (some might even say ill advised) rrp. I'm not even going to mention the entire DRM/used game angle. PC multiplayer might be free but equivalent hardware is 3x as expensive and all your favorite console games will be late/missing. GAF played a constructive role in helping Sony decide their ownership policies. Don't start whining about this and risk sounding to the outside world like a bunch of entitled kids that want everything for free.

Who the fuck are you to tell anyone to get over it or not feel entitled? If people choose to feel that way then that's there prerogative. Calling people whinners? Really? You're fucken RUDE.

 

[rac]

Sony alone had the b*lls to take a loss on every console sold. Perhaps everybody stupid enough to whine about this would prefer a $499/549 rrp but charging for online multiplayer (Not entertainment like Netflix etc) is one way to make a fraction of that back.

How do you know sony is taking a loss on every console? Also anyone paying 500$ with online play free would be saving money in the long run.

 

[Dead Man]

I come to GAF a lot for color on what is both my hobby and my job - I cover gaming stocks for a hedge fund. I'd like to provide some friendly words of advice-

Get over it and stop sounding so entitled. MSFT and Sony aren't in this because its a charity and its right and proper that they expect a reasonable profit for their efforts. The X1 is very fairly priced but Sony especially has gone above and beyond to please the 'core' as represented here. For a company that just posted their first annual profit in four years, Sony alone had the b*lls to take a loss on every console sold. Perhaps everybody stupid enough to whine about this would prefer a $499/549 rrp but charging for online multiplayer (Not entertainment like Netflix etc) is one way to make a fraction of that back. With the rrp that low and no mp paywall to cushion the blow all the gifs in the world wouldn't save Kaz from his angry shareholders.

The PS4 is the most powerful game console ever made and they're selling you a hell of a lot for a ridiculously low (some might even say ill advised) rrp. I'm not even going to mention the entire DRM/used game angle. PC multiplayer might be free but equivalent hardware is 3x as expensive and all your favorite console games will be late/missing. GAF played a constructive role in helping Sony decide their ownership policies. Don't start whining about this and risk sounding to the outside world like a bunch of entitled kids that want everything for free.

Just a tip, they aren't entitled to anyones money, either. And yes, I would prefer a higher price and free online. But I must be stupid, right mate?

 

[alstein]

Get over it and entitled really need to become bannable. It's strawmanning.

PS+, I don't subscribe to it now, because I don't really see the value, given what I use a console for. Let's put it this way, I've pretty much over the past six months just played one game on my console.

I'm probably angrier than most because this likely means having to quit a genre of games I've played for 20 years, but I'm willing to give it up over this.