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FRIDAYTON MK II: 5.5 million bears and salmon create unholy allliance to sack SONY HQ

J

jsnepo

Member
This is really disappointing if this is true. Sony were championing the 8GB GDDR5 and many were led to believe that most of it will be used for games. My PC only has 2GB RAM but it can do more at the OS level than what Sony intends to do now.

What really disappoints me now is Sony is doing the same thing as Microsoft and instead of confirming things, they're being quiet about this. People want confirmation.
 
H

hodgy100

Member
Paracelsus said:
5.5 isn't enough to withstand 5-6 years at 1080p@30fps with everything set on "Ultra" which is the least Sony should strive for.
Click to expand...

that's more dependant on the GPU even with 5.5 only available to games the CPU and GPU arent up to the task of running games at "ultra" for the next 5-6 years
 
D

dragonbane

Member
PrivateWHudson said:
I guess this really is what it comes down to. I have an xbox and a nice pc now. I'm happy with the games on the xbox, but appreciate the power of my pc. Ultimately I'm too lazy to hook the pc up to the family tv and was hoping the ps4 was the answer. If the ps4 and xbox one will be close to parity with each other why should I jump ship to the playstation ecosystem? I'm still on the fence, and didn't cancel my pre-order, but I'm getting closer to doing so and then trading a wait and see approach. Maybe decide by Christmas instead of launch.
Click to expand...
You should wait once all the games are announced yes. When that's done and you still prefer Microsoft's games, I see no reason why you should buy a PS4 just because it might be more powerful.
 
R

reptilescorpio

Member
famousmortimer said:
I still don't know any numbers so don't read too much into this.


The thing I find funny about this entire thing is that it's totally perception vs reality and a lot of you had no idea you were on the perception side of things.

Sony never said anything about their os size and nor should they. My understanding is that Microsoft never did either, that info came from leaked documents. Sony fans held onto this idea that the os was 1gb despite having no credible source ever mention that. None of the leakers here mentioned anything, no sites of note posted anything. It was basically an urban legend that people took as fact.

At the same time people assumed that the 3gb used by Microsoft was a waste. Why? I have no idea. No developer ever complained about the ram available to them. No website of note complained that it was filled with bloat. Generally speaking everyone in the know expects multiplats to be roughly equal for a year or two atleast. There was never any reason to be upset with ms over their hardware config. If you want to get upset about kinect and the costs associated with that... fine. But the os? There was never any reason to think poorly about it but people did, foolishly.

So here we are and guess what... both OS's are going to use memory. The wii u uses 1gb for fuck's sake, did you guys really think the xbox one or ps4 were going to use less? Especially when both are built around multitasking and recording gameplay. I stream and record stuff on my pc right now and guess what.... when I do that my performance suffers. So to think they wouldn't reserve the space for this (dedicated cores, ram, etc) was silly.

So the perception on gaf was that 7gb of ram was going to be used. The reality is that the number is lower. The perception is that this is something to get upset about. The reality is that devs knew this the entire time they were talking about how developer friendly the box is. Nothing has actually changed except for your perception.
Click to expand...

Sony failed perception management! Preorder cancelled!
 
Raonak

Raonak

Banned
2.5gb for OS seems overkill. The vita's OS system was the way to go- shrinks consideribly when a game is played, then ballons up when the PS button is pressed and the menu is returned to.
But 5.5gb is still plenty. And the 1gb reserved for the future can be returned to the game portion later on anyway. I dout many games will fully strech the 5.5gb limit to the max anyway. It's still a 11x upgrade over last gen's ram. it's also still GDDR5.

but it does dillute the difference between xbone and ps4 which is why it's a little "upsetting" to some. Honestly, this is the first bad news to come to the ps4camp in months. and it isn't even bad, since 5.5 > 5

Kinda makes you think what kind of OS were they originally gonna have with their 4gb plans?
 
L

libregkd

Member
So after actually reading through alot of this topic, nothing actually changed? Everything is the same as it was before except now we have a breakdown on where and how much RAM is being used (Something we've never even gotten a hint about how it was going to be divvied up).

I don't know how this thread blew up the way it did.
 
G

gruenel

Member
mangochutney said:
Yes, but what you are saying is that the entire timeshift is stored in RAM, as I said STBs usually have piss-poor amounts of cheap RAM but can keep hours of video, it isn't stored in RAM it is stored on disk.
Click to expand...

STBs don't really do anything else with the hard disk though. On PS4, games will constantly read from/write to the hard disk. Seek times would probably be a bitch when you are constantly writing game video to the HDD while games want to read/write data at the same time, especially when using 5400 RPM HDDs.
 
J

jhmtehgamr20xx

Banned
SgtCobra said:
Sony just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about RAM (I'm an expert), but the amount that is useable for devs and OS are huge parts of it. It's not like it is with Microsoft where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw gamers over regarding RAM availability, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the gaming public and devs, after hearing about this, are not going to want to purchase a PS4 or develop for it, they will buy a Xbox One instead which has more RAM available for games. This is HUGE (just like the amount of RAM available for gaming of the XB1 compared to the PS4). You can laugh all you want, but Sony has alienated the entire market with this move.

It's over, period. Sony lost their last ace, and that's the end of their PS4 hopes and dreams.

It's not hyperbole, it's not fanboy drivel. It is LITERALLY it for PS4. Sony has nothing left, nothing they have can fix the hole now created. There is no reason left for anyone, hardcore or casual, to substantially invest in a PS4. Except if they want to play Driveclub. Which will suck because it won't be using 8GB of that glorious GDDR5.

Sony themselves took the last reason away that anyone would NEED to own a PS4 over a Xbox One (except GAIKAI CLOUD LOL GAMING), and the cavalcade of tiny indie titles that will be nice but won't add more RAM, it's just simply not going to salvage the bloated, underdesigned midget that is the PS4

There may be some hardcore gamers that stick around. Some did it for Gamecube too. But the last bell tolled. Maybe next decade.

The age of Sony is done.
Click to expand...

Suddenly 4.5 GB of RAM for games is gonna bring PS4 down to Gamecube sales levels?

Okay, I guess. I aughta just get an Xbone then. I'll be miffed when Green mutters "The Xbone is not our future", but I'll at least have a collector's item.

See, I can devolve into fanboy tribalism, too. Got plenty of brain cells left to play around.
 
Q

qa_engineer

Member
libregkd said:
So after actually reading through alot of this topic, nothing actually changed? Everything is the same as it was before except now we have a breakdown on where and how much RAM is being used (Something we've never even gotten a hint about how it was going to be divvied up).

I don't know how this thread blew up the way it did.
Click to expand...


Because THIS.IS.NEOGAF.
 
K

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
thuway said:
I will implore you to think about this:

This generation Sony was caught with their pants down. No cross game chat, no in-game XMB during movie playback / PS2 or PS1 emulation / or during video chat.

Why? Because they didn't plan or think ahead. Sony will aggressively study the Xbox One when it launches, and I suspect Microsoft will do the same. Both machines are offering enough RAM to developers to cultivate their visions while saving a reserve just in case for any extraneous changes.
Click to expand...
This is not planning ahead, because it doesn't actually suggest there's a plan, just overcompensation for past mistakes. The 1.5 GB directly reserved for the OS almost certainly already has ample overhead built in - that's the "plan ahead" part. The other 1GB being held in reserve seems more like a paranoid hedge. There's no discernible need for it, no definitive plans in the work for it, and if all you can say to justify leaving it fallow is "who knows what the future holds" it really doesn't instill great confidence in their OS "planning".

Personally, I'd rather bank on game devs finding ways to make more effective use of it, if that's the best rationale for locking it away.
 
D

dragonbane

Member
jhmtehgamr20xx said:
Suddenly 4.5 GB of RAM for games is gonna bring PS4 down to Gamecube sales levels?

Okay, I guess. I aughta just get an Xbone then. I'll be miffed when Green mutters "The Xbone is not our future", but I'll at least have a collector's item.

See, I can devolve into fanboy tribalism, too. Got plenty of brain cells left to play around.
Click to expand...
Listen to this and enjoy yourself. You will be a wiser man once you come back and read the post again.
 
U

Uno Venova

Banned
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
No. Im going to use common sense and just wait. Ive said throughout this thread that this only effects my decision to buy into the ecosystem early, not that I will not own a PS4 at all.



this whole thread is speculation. im just talking from the perspective that it may be true.
Click to expand...

I just expected more to go on with saying this allocation is features for casuals.
 
riskVSreward

riskVSreward

Member
jhmtehgamr20xx said:
Suddenly 4.5 GB of RAM for games is gonna bring PS4 down to Gamecube sales levels?

Okay, I guess. I aughta just get an Xbone then. I'll be miffed when Green mutters "The Xbone is not our future", but I'll at least have a collector's item.

See, I can devolve into fanboy tribalism, too. Got plenty of brain cells left to play around.
Click to expand...
Welcome to GAF!
 
A

AyaisMUsikWhore

Member
jsnepo said:
This is really disappointing if this is true. Sony were championing the 8GB GDDR5 and many were led to believe that most of it will be used for games. My PC only has 2GB RAM but it can do more at the OS level than what Sony intends to do now.

What really disappoints me now is Sony is doing the same thing as Microsoft and instead of confirming things, they're being quiet about this. People want confirmation.
Click to expand...

First of all, Sony didn't say anything period. That's different than saying something and then reverting or contradicting what you said. They added RAM to a system, they never mentioned anything else about it. This is VERY different to what MS does. They talk, make vague statements to lead you on, then go back on it. Sony being professionals will make a comment or statement after. Sony didn't start the rumor....but they will smash it. What are you talking about?
 
C

Cidd

Member
I'm curious to see what this new OS can do if it's using 3GB+ of RAM, It better be some amazing shit to pay such a price.
 
B

Beerman462

Member
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
I will always want the functions closest to my needs for the cheapest price. Had Sony offered that, I would of payed a premium to own their system. Now that they dont offer that, I feel no compulsion to pay more than such a device is worth to me. I am the buyer, I will pay what i feel something is worth, not I am told it is worth.

A media box PS4 is not worth $399. Ill wait.
Click to expand...

Does not compute...
 
G

glenn8

Banned
ill wait for sony statemnt if it ever happens.
if things stay like this im gonna cancel the preorder. see no reason for a console. i dont want a media box. if i want a media box with gaming id go xbox. its focused on 3 fucking os with 3gb using it. ps4 is also using about the same, but i didnt see the features that i could approve using that much os.
im not angry or anything, im just not ok with the fact that a gaming console uses so much ram for applications and stuff

ill wait and stick with pc till then, this just makes the pc gaming even more worth.
 
L

lunlunqq

Member
Man-is-Obsolete said:
LOL! How many more do you still have on preorder? Guess that's one less you can resell for the sake of making people react.
Click to expand...

How... how did you know??? For the record, I never re-sell consoles for profit. I hate it when people do that. These stand-alone launch pre-orders went out pretty fast; so I cancelled this one a few weeks ago immediately after I secured myself a launch day Killzone bundle such that someone else who wants it can get it.
 
BibiMaghoo

BibiMaghoo

Member
To be honest, if this is true, it slightly shits on the 'unified pool' vision. If they have purposefully locked out big chunks to different tasks, even tasks that are simply not in use at all, then that vision seems, well...

a bit of a lie.

Otherwise, to think this may change some people choice of purchase makes me laugh. The RAM is there, to be used. It just will not be used completely for some time, which seems kind of sensible.
 
JonathanPower

JonathanPower

Member
gruenel said:
STBs don't really do anything else with the hard disk though. On PS4, games will constantly read from/write to the hard disk. Seek times would probably be a bitch when you are constantly writing game video to the HDD while games want to read/write data at the same time, especially when using 5400 RPM HDDs.
Click to expand...

The XboneONE does record to the HDD, it was said by MS. Thus, I don't see why the PS4 would do any different.
 
I

i-Lo

Member
See, most of us are still denoting 3.5GB as the number for OS footprint when it should be 2.5GB. Sony should really clarify this clusterfuck.
 
I

Ishan

Junior Member
Guys guys have you thought of this tho !! 2.5 gb of Cerny powered GDDR5 for the os .... That os will be the shit :) .... Guaranteed come launch everyone will be saying "but have you seen ps4OS"?

Hehe sorry just had to :)
 
D

DeadlyVirus

Member
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
which is great for their brand (which ive never disputed) but shitty for me.I do not play corporate welfare. My allegiance is to my own needs not a companies. If sony wants to accommodate features that will bring in more casuals fair dues, but that doesn't make the system more attractive to me.

I will always want the functions closest to my needs for the cheapest price. Had Sony offered that, I would of payed a premium to own their system. Now that they dont offer that, I feel no compulsion to pay more than such a device is worth to me. I am the buyer, I will pay what i feel something is worth, not I am told it is worth.

A media box PS4 is not worth $399. Ill wait.
Click to expand...

Consoles have been media boxes for over 10 years. Get use to it
 
J

jockstrap74

Neo Member
Lets be honest the massive jump in memory regardless if its 4.5 or 5.5 should mean games look alot better than they do now with current gen available memory.

I tend to like the xmb on the ps3, granted its slow when you try and do anything in game, so a bit more memory would be beneficial. Im not one for the new splash screen look, I always think they look messy

Still massively looking forward to launch day Ps4
 
C

Corto

Member
i-Lo said:
See, most of us are still denoting 3.5GB as the number for OS footprint when it should be 2.5GB. Sony should really clarify this clusterfuck.
Click to expand...

Why? For all we know maybe the final reserved memory pool for the OS it's still not decided and they can't commit to a final value.
 
I

iamshadowlark

Banned
BibiMaghoo said:
To be honest, if this is true, it slightly shits on the 'unified pool' vision. If they have purposefully locked out big chunks to different tasks, even tasks that are simply not in use at all, then that vision seems, well...

a bit of a lie.

Otherwise, to think this may change some people choice of purchase makes me laugh. The RAM is there, to be used. It just will not be used completely for some time, which seems kind of sensible.
Click to expand...

No, not at all. There is a huge different between I unified pool of ram and a split pool with different I/O buses and different MCs.
 
S

Scrooged

Totally wronger about Nintendo's business decisions.
BibiMaghoo said:
To be honest, if this is true, it slightly shits on the 'unified pool' vision. If they have purposefully locked out big chunks to different tasks, even tasks that are simply not in use at all, then that vision seems, well...

a bit of a lie.

Otherwise, to think this may change some people choice of purchase makes me laugh. The RAM is there, to be used. It just will not be used completely for some time, which seems kind of sensible.
Click to expand...

Errr no. The unified pool means it's all in one place and can be allocated easily. Processes have to lock out sections of RAM no matter what. That's how computers work. We are just getting the (not completely confirmed) details of how much these processes will use now.
 
L

liquidspeed

Member
PlanetSmasher said:
We haven't seen an official debunk yet? Christ. Hopefully this ends up not being true. If it is, Sony pretty much lost their last significant advantage over the XBONE. It'd be a really stupid move on their part.
Click to expand...

No they have a few more left, but it is true that they'd have fewer advantages.

Sony's remaining advantages are the fact that its GPU is ~ 50% faster than the X1's, the GDDR5 ram is still much higher bandwidth and there is no small esram pool to mess with.
In addition, PS+ is a great value and they have the public mind share as well.
 
H

hodgy100

Member
i-Lo said:
So is it 4.5GB or 5.5GB for games (because IGN and GI wrote about 3.5GB being available to OS).

This "flexible" RAM malarkey is so damn confusing.
Click to expand...

flexible ram might be the space for some of the more memory intensive background apps?

so if devs were to use this space some of the more memory intensive apps may have to close when launching the game?
just speculation of course.
 
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