They're not allowed to yet. Microsoft is still remaining mum on their specs and developers are under NDA. Carmack said it himself, he is currently under NDA.
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John Carmack on PS4 vs. Xbox One Specs: They're 'Very Close'
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
- Start date
They're not allowed to yet. Microsoft is still remaining mum on their specs and developers are under NDA. Carmack said it himself, he is currently under NDA.
netoambrosio
Banned
Because Carmack and others have said they are close. Maybe this is because "technically possible performance" (what the silicon is capable of) is not the same as "reality performance" (what developers end up getting into the game)
2.5x the memory bandwidth is hardly theoretical.
ESRAM, Move Engines and the Audio chip... I dunno. I really dont think these developers have an agenda and they are saying its close.. If they came out and said that Kinect was the savior that will rescue the games industry and the One, whilst lower specced on paper outperforms the PS4 in real world benchmarks.. then i'd smell something fishy!
It's ALMOST a match made in heaven. I liked the Kinect concept but that 200+ms lag made it a mere shadow of what it could be. I was hoping with all my heart the Kinect2 would slash lag by AT LEAST half, to 100ms and even that would barely be acceptable.
16ms lag would be perfect. 50ms would be good.
They couldn't, They slashed lag by a mere 15%
, a huge disappointment.
biggersmaller
Banned
I laughed pretty good at this.
shinobi602
Member
"The same company makes their CPU and GPU, see how similar they are!"
What? RAM and GPU make absolutely no difference between the two?
phosphor112
Banned
Yeah...this is a completely different statement then what OP put.
Yes. That's what I mean.
This diagram makes it fairly clear.
You said the eSRAM doesn't use up the main pools BW.
That's wrong.
I think he was JUST talking about architecture.
Think about it though. It IS crazy how similar they are... the main difference is GPU customizations, power, and memory methods.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
No, cache is not something devs store data in, they store data automatically. Devs don't code the caches. And yes the GPU can render to the eSRAM, hence my "process" bit, because it could be any type of computation. And yes the GPU can read from DDR3, it kind of has to.
The eSRAM and DDR3 are both sitting next to the GPU as pools of memory. It would be silly to think data is moving in and out of the eSRAM without ever touching the DDR3 bandwidth, the data has to come from somewhere - there is no magic.
The same is true on the PS4, no matter which bus is used (Onion, Garlic, etc.) the bandwidth cannot be counted twice.
OK - I missed your point initially - of course the data has to come from somewhere.
Yeah,I wonder why Sony didn't go with a less powerful machine then?
It's the same stuff all multi-plat developers are spreading.
You won't hear anything else. They want to sell software on these systems.
Like I've already said.
You don't need Carmack/person YXZ to see what the differences are.
Look at the specs.
metareferential
Member
Well, if studios remain in bed with Microsoft, of course no amount of superior hardware will matter. Then, it will probably be like last gen all over again. Moneyhats will decide which version looks best. MS will of course win with their nigh limitless resources, with Sony managing to buy off perhaps a couple of superior ports.
If the PS4 gets a bigger install base than Xbone, that won't be happening. 3rd party publishers/developers can easily ignore MS on their bribery such as moneyhatting, & ignore MS on their so-called "platform parity" policy.
metareferential
Member
Yeah, it's a conspiracy, they're all sellouts.
There will be devs who take advantage of the ps4 and others that won't.
This gen was the same.
We've had games performing better on 360, games being equal, and games being better on ps3.
And great devs achieved parity even early in the gen, like Criterion.
Statistically, PS4 will have the advantage.
None of those ports were due to differences in hardware power. Pretty much all of them were the result of programming difficulty. Nobody blamed the Red Dead Redemption or Bayonetta ports on the PS3 hardware, and nobody blamed the Final Fantasy XIII port on the 360 hardware.
That factor doesn't seem like it'll really be a problem at all in the next console cycle. And even if a greater hardware difference does exist, it's still not that huge. Definitely not enough to allow PS4 versions of games to have double the framerate.
Oh, and I think PC gamers are happy that an oncoming console generation is gonna raise the base standard for graphics in PC ports. No one denies that. I'm not saying everyone should play games on PC or that PC gaming is all-around superior, but anyone who cares THIS much about image quality to split these kinds of hairs should probably be playing games on PC. It's the best choice for videophile gamers because console developers are never gonna give that audience exactly what it wants.
metareferential
Member
Problem is money.
Most people are stuck with one console. So they freak out because they need to be reassured their choice was wise.
It's a hard world. xD
Disclaimer: I'm not saying this as an elitist pc gamer. But that's how things normally go.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
I said it doesn't have to.
digoutyoursoul
Member
But they are freaking out about something that nobody gives a shit about. When I was a kid I didn't know anyone who acted like this, despite magazines trying to flame the Mario v Sonic/SNES v Genesis thing
It will have crackdown 3, and lets hope it ends up being good
Crackdown 3 has a lot to prove right now while inFamous has been done by the same studio for every iteration. I love me some Crackdown but Realtime Worlds is dead.
digoutyoursoul
Member
Shame as the first one was brilliant (downloaded it again yesterday)
Woo-Fu
Banned
Just the opposite. The nightmare would be if Carmack were hailing Kinect 2.x as the new gaming messiah.
Too many people trying to read too much into this.
This looks like the closest the main competition has been to each other in a long time in terms of cpu/gpu.
metareferential
Member
It's always been this way. I remember arguing with friends over differencies between Genesis/Snes version of Street Fighter 2.
And the Saturn/PS1 days? "Saturn can't do transparencies!!"
"But Nights has those!"/"those are faked".
Etc.
Then, if they're smart, they grow up, learn how to handle money, and buy whatever they like without worrying that much.
I'm not saying we shouldn't discuss tech or differencies between games. What baffles me is how invested some people are in such intangible things (because very few of us have the knowledge to understand and appreciate these things).
And it's also incredible how much hypocrisy we have to suffer: last gen most people tried not to care about poor ps3 ports. They said "differencies are negligible".
And now, without having a single game out, they're already acting like XB1 will have games running at half the framerate, half the resolution, without effects, etc.
There is a difference, and it's even quite huge. But still, if they care that much, why don't they just buy a pc?
Exclusive games won't tell anything.
2 very different games.It will have crackdown 3, and lets hope it ends up being good
me too. and for xbox 360, he is spot on. i REALLY hope that kinect 2.0's increased resolution allows for more subtle gestures and we no longer will need to hover our cursor over an option for a few seconds to select it. that sucked. there doesnt seem to be a reason kinect 2.0 cant act like a mouse with at least one button - but we'll see.
has there been any demos with kinect gesture ui navigation to see how/if its changed?
digoutyoursoul
Member
Good post. All the arguing just becomes tedious. As it stands I believe PS4 is looking the better system for various reasons but that's me, if people prefer Xbox or PC it doesn't affect or shouldn't dominate the thinking process. Buy what you like and can afford
The PS3 having low memory bandwidth did not stop that system from delivering great looking games
http://www.ign.com/articles/2005/05/20/e3-2005-microsofts-xbox-360-vs-sonys-playstation-3?page=3
Although xbox 360s memory bandwidth edge is contributed to edram - so make of that what you will.
Can Crusher
Banned
Nintendo almost had it, they should've gone with AMD cpu.
dragonelite
Member
The X1 games looked good at E3 but i find next gen nothing special at all.
By the time next gen devs make better use of the hardware.
I will probably have Xfire setup and an 8 core intel cpu and 1440p~4k screen.
4k screens are already around $700 it will only go down.
By the time next gen devs make better use of the hardware.
I will probably have Xfire setup and an 8 core intel cpu and 1440p~4k screen.
4k screens are already around $700 it will only go down.
And you will need to get down for it !
PC gaming is expensive if you want top notch.
I dont see Titan cards for 400 any time Soon.
I would love to have a beast of a PC, but in stuck with my GTX 680m for a while and thats even struggling with crysis 3.
metareferential
Member
Yeah, this. The way some people paint it you'd think there's going to be a PS3->Wii level difference between the two. They're in the same ballpark.
No its not cheap but it isnt 2 titans wich will last me for years.
If my 680m at 950mhz is struggling with crysis 3 how will fare next year.
What in saying is console gaming is cheap and no worries for good and beautifull games.
Ok not production, publishing. That's what I meant though, it's a money issue.
metareferential
Member
Well, you've had that for some time. And it's a laptop.
It's not the best way to gauge how expensive pc-gaming can be. And future-proofing with pc hardware is most of the time just impossible or stupid.
And you won't need a sli setup with Titans to enjoy next-gen.
FairXchange
Member
I mean, this pretty much says it all. "They're close" is as non-scientific as it gets, and Carmack has established here he can't make a statement on what the difference really is.
He said that in last years keynote and reiterated it this year based on the premise that the brain has to translate the movement of your thumb into movement on the screen. Something about your brain needing to translate the movement and time instead of it just being 1:1. Some of that stuff should be taken with a grain a salt though because with a shooter you are still going to have that time translation with pointers when you want your on screen character to turn around.
dragonelite
Member
Sure but every hobby is expensive.
Because there is far more to a closed system than just gpu... exact same CPUs also mean that those parts will more than likely be the limiter this gen and both gpus will do everything the developers can throw at it.
So the additional power just doesn't matter?PS4 has the advantage in RAM and the GPU,I think they will be the differentiating factors in performance.
Frankenstein
Banned
The PS4 can also use it´s GPU ressources for CPU tasks, so your argument is invalid.
so you think carmack dosnt know the difference between gddr5 and dd3+esram?
are you serious? haahha
this gen is another ps3 x360
and we already seen is like this from games they show at e3 and reveal no major differences between this two consoles