That's interesting. Are you aware that Twitch.tv has more viewers than most cable networks? Are you aware that YouTube has more 18-34 viewers than all cable networks?
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Are you happy with the "visual identity" adopted by modern Final Fantasy?
- Thread starter MYE
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That's interesting. Are you aware that Twitch.tv has more viewers than most cable networks? Are you aware that YouTube has more 18-34 viewers than all cable networks?
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
At this point you're arguing semantics. Its a fantasy game, dont think so hard.
BlazingRain
Banned
Hmm for some reason I thought that was Kojima's wife, but regardless, she is an excellent artist.
Square needs to let the artist from the Saga series do the art for one of the next FF's. They already got Hamauzu for the music.
Indeed, Tomomi Kobayashi is my favorite artist in video games. It's a shame she doesn't get much recognition. She has that same ethereal quality that Amano is famous for, but her designs are much more grounded and usable without being filtered by someone else.
.
And other thing, if I remember correctly, GTA V supposedly has had the biggest budget for any video game. And that one had somewhere around 250 million. Seriously, where the hell did you pull those numbers? Also, I don't really like where this is going. All this talk about video game budgets when none of us really know what it's like to lead large groups of people to develop massive games. Yeah, you can say that SE is not efficient with development costs but we really have no idea what went into making some of those games and how much of that development benefitted other games developed by them.
All this talk is just speculation. Let's stick to the topic.
Hmm for some reason I thought that was Kojima's wife, but regardless, she is an excellent artist.
Square needs to let the artist from the Saga series do the art for one of the next FF's. They already got Hamauzu for the music.
Oh yeah. I love the SaGa series art. it's soooo good. It's actually very similar looking to Amano's artwork.
LTTP 'cause I think the topics moved on a bit, but I personally have no problem with the series' visual style. re: the setting, I like both the sci-fi extravagance of XIII and VIII, and the more sword-and-sorcery type settings like in XII and XIV. The alternating/ mix-and-match of scifi and fantasy is part of the series' appeal for me.
As to the character art style... I can't say much about Amano since VII and hence Nomura was my intro to the series, but I will say that while there have been 'questionable' designs (Hello, Seymour and Nooj), mostly I think the series has been good with having a variety of types of people in each game. I've never really noticed the 'effeminacy' of the main characters or considered it a deal-breaking issue (they're teens, cultural art style etc). Nor have I thought of the 'androgyny' as being particularly prevalent outside of, say, Hope (who is a kid), Kuja, and Adel, who is like the manliest sorceress ever:
... and Adel's like the only example of a truly androgynous FF character I can think of.
As to the character art style... I can't say much about Amano since VII and hence Nomura was my intro to the series, but I will say that while there have been 'questionable' designs (Hello, Seymour and Nooj), mostly I think the series has been good with having a variety of types of people in each game. I've never really noticed the 'effeminacy' of the main characters or considered it a deal-breaking issue (they're teens, cultural art style etc). Nor have I thought of the 'androgyny' as being particularly prevalent outside of, say, Hope (who is a kid), Kuja, and Adel, who is like the manliest sorceress ever:
... and Adel's like the only example of a truly androgynous FF character I can think of.
IsntChrisL
Member
I already considered this, but some of it is just a straight up exaggeration on Square's part. Japanese natives might sincerely be more likely to look like these characters, but there's definitely exaggeration going on here (although the same could be said for men designed by western studios). Is Japan really filled with girly-men in bear-chested open-vests? Are these hair styles really the norm in this country? And if they are, who is Square really trying to identify with? Many Japanese developers have done a better job at balancing their character design more evenly (like with MGS series). My half-drunk ass is out of words to say clearly at the moment.
BlazingRain
Banned
I think we need to do a better job of pushing her art. Her art books are absolutely gorgeous. I'd love to see her get a FF along with Hamauzu composing. SaGa Frontier II was such a unique experience it deserves a spiritual successor.
PshycoNinja
Member
Everything said here is a load of bullshit and made up and you know it. 110% false.
My God, now I know you are talking out of your ass. When someone in the west thinks of a RPG, Final Fantasy or Pokemon instantly comes to mind. Hell, the common person may only know of FFVII, but it's FF.
And some two bit PC game Amnesia is more well known than Final Fantasy?
AAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
LET ME LAUGH AGAIN
AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You used Angel Beats (my favorite anime of all time) and OreImo (which I loved until it got to the end *shutters*) GIF's. Respect.
BlazingRain
Banned
MGS as a whole caters to Western gamers though. Remember what happened when Snake was replaced by a Japanese oriented character?
IsntChrisL
Member
No, I have no idea what you're talking about.
Please remember that there's alcohol involved on my end.
Yeah I agree. I would love another stab at the SaGa series, or at least a spiritual successor that would have the same feel but could appeal more to worldwide tastes.
Either way, that art is fantastic. I had the official strategy guide with art for SaGa Frontier and it was so nice to look at. Also in both SaGa Frontier I and II they had those loading/chapter screens with character art. Always enjoyed looking at those.
PshycoNinja
Member
Tetsuya Nomura. :]
Or Yoshida. I am fine with the current character designers. Character designs are not a problem. It's the writers who take the designs and write them into stupid scenarios with stilted writing that need to be replaced.
Not even close. The most expensive video game released was Super Mario World at 550 million USD. Even Final Fantasy VII cost more than GTA V's development.
From Square's quarterly report:
http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/20130527_01en.pdf
(A summary for those of you who can't add/read, which wouldn't surprise me considering some of the responses I've gotten: 1.6 billion yen in losses. Unless Square is secretly working on Chrono Trigger 2, those losses must be attributed to FF15/14/etc., as they specifically stated that those losses are attributed to, and I quote, "titles currently in progress".)
If Final Fantasy XV is released, yes, it will be the most expensive game ever developed, which should come as no surprise considering its long development time, the three in-house engines that were created for it, and the fact that it's a Square game.
Yeah I agree. Improve the depth of writing and it will help things a lot. Judging from the little bits we've seen so far, the writing already seems to have more depth. But we'll have to find out when we can play it.
hipsterpants
Member
Yea, I really enjoy Nomura's artwork. Very stylized and creative, especially compared to a lot of western designs. I would rather have something ridiculous and memorable and boring and forgettable.
XIII always seemed really off to me but I've never been able to pinpoint why. Characters like Hope and Vanille (Serah is pretty bad too) are just really off-putting, like they didn't realize the transition from hand drawn artwork to full hd model would look that anime-y.
XIII always seemed really off to me but I've never been able to pinpoint why. Characters like Hope and Vanille (Serah is pretty bad too) are just really off-putting, like they didn't realize the transition from hand drawn artwork to full hd model would look that anime-y.
Hmm for some reason I thought that was Kojima's wife, but regardless, she is an excellent artist.
Square needs to let the artist from the Saga series do the art for one of the next FF's. They already got Hamauzu for the music.
This looks great, would love a FF with this artstyle and just crazy shit happening so they can be even crazier with the art. Current FF artstyle is incredibly boring.
Dude you've lost it. Nowhere on that sheet lists those development costs. Not only that but all the numbers are listed in yen, not dollars.
There are multiple sources with the cost of GTAV and it being the highest budgeted game. It's easy to look. Now I'm still not sure where you get your numbers, but there has been no indication of any of those costs for any of those games.
Love it.Hmm for some reason I thought that was Kojima's wife, but regardless, she is an excellent artist.
Square needs to let the artist from the Saga series do the art for one of the next FF's. They already got Hamauzu for the music.
Awww yissss.
PshycoNinja
Member
Lol. Oh my god. You're serious aren't you? Hahahahahaha.
Dude just stop. You'll just hurt yourself.
http://www.gamecubicle.com/features-mario-units_sold_sales.htm
http://www.edge-online.com/features/nintendo-years/3/
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-02-01-gta-v-dev-costs-over-USD137-million-says-analyst
http://www.vg247.com/2013/09/09/gta...e-in-history-cost-170-million-to-make-market/
http://www.gamefront.com/grand-theft-auto-5-11-million-plus-copies-sold-in-24-hours/
I feel like a scientist trying to explain the Big Bang, and you're sitting here screaming, "I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT SO IT CAN'T BE TRUE!!!!!!!!!" If you're not willing to do the math, or are incapable of doing the math, I have no problem with that--but don't challenge me with personal incredulity.
*sigh*
This is all about profits and sales data. And one link is an analyst talking about the cost of GTAV. Rockstar released the number themselves.
I don't know why I even bother. All of your numbers are speculations. Simply adding and subtracting those numbers is not going to narrow down exactly how much was spent for each game. Okay, I'm officially done responding to you. This thread has been derailed pretty far.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Isn't Noctis the only one with hair like that? I'm of course speaking in regards to Final Fantasy.
Squall has long bangs but they're not covering his eyes, same with Tidus, Vaan and Snow.
Ha ha, never thought about that. Yeah, I've had that problem, used to have a bit longer hair....
Did you make that image? I'm just laughing aloud, it's pretty accurate.
in a land of magic and dragons and robots and summons and airships and monsters and lasers and legends you cant imagine a different colour lipstick
I'm probably conflating a bunch of half-remembered images and blaming it on the Final Fantasy franchise, so I'll apologise to fans in advance. Such an annoying trend though, right up there with giving highly athletic female characters high-heels.
I did, and I'm glad it got a laugh.
You're right. It requires multiplication as well. I apologize for not writing out the process step by step for you.
1) Link 2 provides the manufacturing costs for cartridges
2) Link 1 provides the sales data
3) You multiply the sales data by the manufacturing cost per unit to obtain the total manufacturing cost
4) The total manufacturing cost alone exceeds the development and manufacturing and advertising and production costs of any other game in the world, and therefore Super Mario World is the most costly game of all time.
5) Consider inflation if you want; the manufacturing cost will almost double
Total cost includes manufacturing costs, packaging, licensing fees (engines, console royalties, plugins), shipping fees (this includes returns and the return of unsold inventory), development, marketing, blah blah blah.
I know, guys. It's hard to believe that computer entertainment things are cheaper and more widespread today than they were back then, but it's true! YouTube didn't exist either!
Perfo
Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
I'm talking about the "exotic" (nonsensical) futuristic settings and designs they keep cranking out, and mostly the teen anime look with dumb hair styles given to every single character since 7, excluding FF9 (<3) and maybe to some extent, FF12.
Seems like Square-Enix has made it clear that this is what Final Fantasy will look like for quite some time.... and honestly, I've been sick of it for years
Is this a HUGE turn off for anyone else? Its like the design department at SE has a teenage girl making the calls.
Those stupid hairstyles.....and those effeminate faces, they ALL look the SAME!! :/
Yes, Leo DiCaprio in Titanic and Backstreet Boys were huge in the 90s. But christ SquareEnix...
I was going to post images and art from pre FF7 era and FF9, but I think everyone can spot the difference.
The sense of magic and mystery surrounding every new FF world seems to have been replaced by convoluted art styles and boy/girlband characters with uh.... "overly emotive" cliché japanese personalities that one has to put up with rather than enjoy.
Is this type of setting and narrative more popular than the sword and sorcery stuff they did in FF9? Why not switch between both styles? Cuz I'm looking at FF15 and... here we go again :/
I'm really in love with the post 1997 style of FF. Mostly because it's higly recognizable having now a strong identity. When you look at jRPGs' landscape you see most of the games take inspiration from uninspired MANGAs/ANIMEs without any efforts put in them. Well Nomura and then S-E created something special and unique for this series and I'm glad of this.
As for the setting itself - that is probably what you're really talking about - I remember you that while 7, 8, 10 and 13 were futuristic/modern, 9, 11, 12 and 14 are not. So yes, they're doing what you want: alternating the two.
Adjusted to current inflation, sure, VIII did cost more than GTA.
But why does this all matter to you?
Are you so hellbent on bringing down Final Fantasy because it changed over the years?
Plus, I seriously can't believe you said this earlier.
Show one fucking instance of FF exploitation of women. Please
Or Kingdom Hearts Dream Drop Distance. Or Kingdom Hearts 3. Or Dragon Quest X. Or Lightning Returns. Or Sleeping Dogs. Or Tomb Raider. Or Thief 4. Or Hitman Absolution. Or...
What, did you seriously believe that Square Enix only had three games under development during FY2013 named Final Fantasy XIV, Final Fantasy XV, and Tomb Raider, and literally no other costs? Hell, game development isn't even their only industry.
EDIT: 6 billion yen is equal to 60 million USD.
That's okay and yeah I think it only applies to Noctis.
I also found your image amusing though I don't mind Noctic's hair.
Choppasmith
Member
I quite liked it. I hated how KHII just reverted him to his bland AC design. I guess you could call me one of the Nomura haters, but it was really more of me being an Amano fanboy and "older fan" who hated all the attention the Sony era games were getting. I didn't (and still don't) care for a lot of his designs, and I too would love something closer to high fantasy/steampunk. I love Yoshida too, his designs are just so lush and classy compared to Nomura's imo. However, I think I "forgave" Nomura with Dissidia where I feel he did a really fantastic job bringing the classic characters to life. KHII is very fun too. It's because of that that I'm actually cautiously optimistic for XV. I guess I still blame him a little for the current visual style of FF, but I know it's the least of the series' problems. Nomura was probably the worst thing about Square last gen, but it's so incredibly infinitesimal compared to now.
Xenoblade. I've been playing it for the first time, and I just keep thinking, "Why? Why isn't FF like this? The world is just AMAZING."
Speaking of Wii RPGs. I have to admit I'm not a fan of FFIX. It was a cute novelty, but the characters and overall aesthetic just didn't jive with me. Last Story though, I really liked that. It really felt like the best of IX and XII put together. If Sakaguchi wasn't given the boot, it had the Final Fantasy name and a little more polish, it could have been the real FF XIII.
Dude, you have no idea what you're talking about.
The only bad thing about KOF is that the world needs MORE KOF
BlazingRain
Banned
Does GAF usually allow blatant liars to spread disinformation? This guy needs to be banned.
Even his claims of 3 engines is a lie. No engine was created solely for XV (Crystal Tools and Luminous are both multi-game engines), and the game went through 2 engines, not 3.
D
Deleted member 20920
Unconfirmed Member
Lol...
Where are you getting your figures?
I don't think they even reveal individual budgets for games ever. Even your 60 million for XIII is some random pulled from the ass figure.
Please.
Huh? I wish the best for FF. I'm just pointing out that Square, and many other game studios, waste a lot of money and time.
Lightning Returns costumes. I feel that they are intended to turn Lightning into a sex object and that they betray her FF13 personality.
Vanille: http://www.significant-bits.com/wp-...XIII_Oerba_Dia_Vanille_16_9_by_Quick_Stop.jpg
I can almost see her vagina. I can see her butt. Her l'Cie brand is by her vagina. She spends the majority of the game moaning.
I won't even get started on how fake, gorgeous, and anorexia-thin every female FF character is. This depiction of women isn't exclusive to FF by any means, but it's still there.
If you still don't find the portrayal of women concerning in FF, that wouldn't surprise me at all; it's par for the course, much like Africans being perceived as inferior was par for the course decades ago.
I really liked The Last Story, and felt the game had a good balance of tone with serious and randomly comical moments. The game has some faults, but is a very solid effort for a new series. I'd totally be down for another sequel.
However, reading through reviews and previews for the game, it was often criticized for having the 'typical' jRPG character designs of form over function. But I think that was kind of a bullshit trend in the gaming media. I like the character designs of The Last Story quite a bit.
Form over function? Yeah, but it still looks damned cool.
I liked the localized version of the early games we got in the US to be honest. The graphics were simple enough that your minds eye could use those illustrations to interpret what you thought you were seeing.
I liked ffvii style, and i liked ffx style too even and ffxii, but the newest final fantasy games are really just a graphical realization of modern japanese popular hair and fashion styles. It probably looks really innovative and creative to someone not familiar with japan, but it all just seems extrmely pedestrian and uninspired to me.
It's like the have a japanese clothing designer and hair stylist working at square working from textbooks they went to school with our something, it's stupid.
I miss when final fantasy looked like this
I liked ffvii style, and i liked ffx style too even and ffxii, but the newest final fantasy games are really just a graphical realization of modern japanese popular hair and fashion styles. It probably looks really innovative and creative to someone not familiar with japan, but it all just seems extrmely pedestrian and uninspired to me.
It's like the have a japanese clothing designer and hair stylist working at square working from textbooks they went to school with our something, it's stupid.
I miss when final fantasy looked like this
EDIT: Nevermind, Luminous uses PC architecture. You're right. The game has only used 2 engines.
360 ports of FFXIII exist. It's called porting.
D
Deleted member 20920
Unconfirmed Member
Luminous was designed to be compatible with many different platforms, IOS and Android included. Crystal Tools is not even being used anymore except by DQX.
What? Where did you even get this figure from?
BlazeHedgehog
Member
The look of Final Fantasy since FF8 has been a contributing factor to my growing malaise towards the franchise.
I get that Amano's artwork was always a bit... "lithe", but it was easy to see a character like Cecil, Kain, Locke, Celes, or even Cloud as "strong". It's actually sort of interesting how Cloud starts out as this really strong, confident character and then over the course of the game that erodes as he's revealed to be a sham, culminating in him picking up the pieces of his shattered life and proving his own self-worth in the end.
And since then... Final Fantasy's output has been like... a WB/CW teen drama. Like if Gossip Girl was an anime about summoning magical monsters.
Maybe I just grew up.
I get that Amano's artwork was always a bit... "lithe", but it was easy to see a character like Cecil, Kain, Locke, Celes, or even Cloud as "strong". It's actually sort of interesting how Cloud starts out as this really strong, confident character and then over the course of the game that erodes as he's revealed to be a sham, culminating in him picking up the pieces of his shattered life and proving his own self-worth in the end.
And since then... Final Fantasy's output has been like... a WB/CW teen drama. Like if Gossip Girl was an anime about summoning magical monsters.
Maybe I just grew up.
same, the whole "it has to be practical and realistic it cant just look cool" argument is extremely annoying, I've been listening to that stupid shit in the mecha community for 20 years