Anticitizen One
Banned
Your absolutely right
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Super Mario 3D World for Wii U
- Thread starter Darklord
- Start date
Your absolutely right
Luigi is definitely worth playing, trust me dawg I never lie.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
Shoulda went all out and made it online multi. This same screen shit is backwards as hell
Platformers are heavily based on precision, and online introduces lag and latency, which goes against that precision. Just doesn't work well.
Freezie KO
Banned
You basically admitted that they only changed up the levels and then accused me of dismissing the game as a level pack. If they only changed up the levels, that makes it a level pack.
The only other thing you said that was changed (besides meaningless words like "fun") is the art style. Which, again, is what you accused me of caring about even though I never mentioned art style once. But if you're fine with another round of Mario playing the same with the same objectives of 3 star coins, that's fine.
And I take umbrage with your accusation that I "want" to dismiss the game. I don't want to dismiss the game. I want a good 2D Mario to buy. If I didn't care, I wouldn't be posting about it. I don't go posting negative reactions about every game I think will suck. 2D Mario has the potential to be great. It just isn't.
The functional difference between Stars and Flagpoles is that Stars can be given at the end of any objective, while the static nature of flagpoles makes them strictly an A-to-B affair.
I'm just speaking on a purely functional level. Not preference. But Stars give you a wider variety of objectives for Mario to accomplish, deepening gameplay.
But you know what else would be awesome? Something new. Do I know what that is? Nope. That's why Mario 64 and Galaxy were so amazing. They surprised me. That's what I used to expect from Nintendo. Lately, I just expect iterative sequels that play like their predecessors.
I hope you're right that 3D World doesn't lock you into 8 directions. I read otherwise. Nonetheless, I didn't like the controls in 3D Land as much as any previous 3D Marios, and, being a direct sequel, this will likely not change that.
I thought we didn't care about art style? 3D World sticks to the NSMB gameplay tropes, regardless of art style. Limited exploration because of the timer, limited objectives because they use flagpoles instead of stars, and level design based on getting three star coins.
Even if the NSMB gameplay tropes were the best thing ever, shouldn't we want more gameplay diversity and not less? Shouldn't we want the 2D Mario and 3D Marios to give us a different experience? This homogenization just makes both series more stale and truly makes one wonder if Nintendo has finally run out of ideas for the plumber.
The only one I've ever played online was Plosion Man... and granted my connection isn't the greatest, but it was a terrible experience.
It's called a sequel. Saying they only changed up the levels is disingenuous, though. Past NSMB games weren't as well designed, complex, or dense as NSMBU. Lots more moving objects at the same time on screen and stuff. Levels have more stuff going on throughout and the challenge curve is much better.
Again, I didn't accuse you of only caring about the art style, I said you judged it based on how you think it looks. The 3 star coins are good because they are hidden in the levels, challenging to get, and they come up with better and better placements for them. NSMBU had some really great star coins to get. I especially liked the one where I had to drop a turtle into a pool of water, grab it while underwater, and float up using it to get coin.
You want a good Mario game. NSMBU is a master class in 2D level design but you won't even give it a chance because the physics aren't like SMW, right? Who cares if the level design and challenge are billion times better?
Flagpoles end levels, stars end levels. You have to be able to reach flagpoles. Flagpoles can be locked off until you meet an objective just like how stars can come from an objective or just be a the end of a path.
Something new like 3D Mario focusing on 3D platforming that isn't hampered by being on a portable gaming system, multiple characters with unique abilities in 3D, and an interesting new powerup that the levels are designed around? It was enough for Sunshine but not now?
Again, your words, not mine.
Of course we want something new. We also still want a Mario game. NSMBU and from the looks of things 3D World give us new without changing what Mario is.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
No one brings that up against the Rayman developers because the artsy schmartsy is game of the all time forever omg.
Freezie KO
Banned
It's not disingenuous. Everything you talked about is just level design and enemy placement. It's okay to be all right with a level pack. Smash Bros. is unlikely to undergo any major changes, and I'm looking forward to it.
But for myself and many others, the core NSMB design was already stale after 3 entries. Honestly, NSMB is like if they released a Lost Levels 1-4, instead of SMB2usa, SMB3, and SMW. And if they did that, I probably wouldn't be talking about Mario today.
I'm not saying that the 3 star coin mechanic is bad. It's a fine incentive for exploration. But we already had it in the NSMB1-3, then we got it in 3D Land, and then it's back in NSMBU and 3D World.
It's enough already. Time to come up with something fresh. I don't know what that is. I'm not a game designer. But I'll bet tons of indie devs have better ideas than just recycling the 3 coins in more challenging spots.
I'll concede this: if every review and impression cited level design that was a "billion times better", I'd overlook the formulaic nature of NSMB and play the game. But that's just not the case. It's one person's opinion. I respect it, but it's not the general consensus.
And my own judgment is on way more than the physics. It's down to everything I listed. When DK '94 came out, I was blown away. "Look at all the cool stuff Mario can do!" You could use those mechanics to reach all new areas and do new things. When I play NSMB, I'm not excited or intrigued. It's just, "Oh. A triple jump. A butt stomp."
Of course, they could drop a flagpole from the sky and it's the same as a star, but come on... When do they ever do this? Never. They use flagpoles to denote an end of level goal.
Mario 3D World would never have a goal like the having to chase down the star at the end of an eel's tail in Mario 64. Flagpoles just don't accommodate those dynamic goals. Technically, Nintendo could drop a flagpole from the sky or unlock one, but they've never treated flagpoles like that ever.
I don't understand the first thing. Was Galaxy not a 3D platformer?
I don't consider multiple characters new. We played SMB2. Okay, now it's in 3D. Galaxy already had Luigi. So the new options are a slight speed boost and the hover, which the challenge is not based around.
The third thing - the cat suit - I am actually very interested in. I think the mechanic of climbing walls is great, and I hope it's used well. It's the most interesting thing shown so far.
That said, it's not comparable to Sunshine. FLUDD (in addition to being three suits in one) was always with you. The cat suit, because you can lose it, is more likely to be treated as a non-essential item. After all, there can never be a segment where you can get hit and then need the suit without getting it back.
In fact, I'd be much more intrigued by this game if they came out and said, "Mario can now scramble up walls. This will inform every level in the game." That'd be much more exciting.
Both of those are direct sequels. And we've established that for all its challenge and moving parts, NSMBU is extremely similar if not identical in core mechanics to its predecessors.
Sure, we can say we don't want to change "what Mario is." But what is Mario?
Super Mario Bros 2 USA redefined what Mario is at his core. Super Mario Bros 3 gave him flight and other suits. Super Mario World gave him permanent flight and a dinosaur friend that ate enemies and had powers.
Mario 64 redefined what Mario is again, giving him a new adventure in 3D. Mario Sunshine, while flawed, let Mario hover and created a much more more expansive mission-based adventure (almost sandbox in nature). Mario Galaxies brought gravity and spheres and radically shifting themes within levels, and the all important spin attack, and Yoshi's pointer tongue and the sling and fling stars. Even 3D Land combined recent 2D and 3D tropes into a neat combination experiment.
But recently? NSMBU and 3D World. Sure, you call those "new", but much like Nintendo uses the word, it's been sapped of its meaning.
And what is so disappointing about 3D World is that it is the first 3D Mario to ever debut on a console and be a direct sequel.
catstronaut
Member
I personally feel like Nintendo has just arrived at what they think is the perfect form for 2D and 3D Mario games, and they're mostly right. NSMB started off really weak, but NSMBU is honestly one of the best 2D Marios, and I was initially a detractor of that game, even. It took me replaying it to notice just how stellar the level design is, and that it's doing its own thing.
Previous 3D Mario games were imposters. They didn't feel like Mario at all, but with each entry, Nintendo seemed to drift a little closer to what 3D Mario should really fell like, until they finally hit it on the head with 3D Land. So now they have these sequels that look really samey, because they seem to have found their ideal realization of the series.
Personally I think they should be working hard to make these games *look* different, because that seems to be what everyone gets hung up on. New Super Mario Bros U *looks* exactly like NSMB and NSMBWii, even if it's a vastly superior game. 3D World *looks* like 3D Land, even if it seems to be increasing the scope significantly. As long as the games look so similar to one another, there's going to be a large swath of people who think they're not doing anything new, different, or better.
And that's a shame. It's a shame that people can look at the first 3D Mario with 4-player multiplayer and think "man, this is a serious rehash." I can't really blame anybody for that, since that was my reaction to NSMBU. And I wouldn't anyways, because obviously the game isn't out yet. But that seems to be the direction 3D World is headed in. It looks to be one of the best 3D Mario games, but people won't get the same sense of wonder because it looks similar to another game they've played.
Previous 3D Mario games were imposters. They didn't feel like Mario at all, but with each entry, Nintendo seemed to drift a little closer to what 3D Mario should really fell like, until they finally hit it on the head with 3D Land. So now they have these sequels that look really samey, because they seem to have found their ideal realization of the series.
Personally I think they should be working hard to make these games *look* different, because that seems to be what everyone gets hung up on. New Super Mario Bros U *looks* exactly like NSMB and NSMBWii, even if it's a vastly superior game. 3D World *looks* like 3D Land, even if it seems to be increasing the scope significantly. As long as the games look so similar to one another, there's going to be a large swath of people who think they're not doing anything new, different, or better.
And that's a shame. It's a shame that people can look at the first 3D Mario with 4-player multiplayer and think "man, this is a serious rehash." I can't really blame anybody for that, since that was my reaction to NSMBU. And I wouldn't anyways, because obviously the game isn't out yet. But that seems to be the direction 3D World is headed in. It looks to be one of the best 3D Mario games, but people won't get the same sense of wonder because it looks similar to another game they've played.
I think 3D Land is the more appropriate line in the sand.
Level design is a HUGE improvement over past games. It's disingenuous to call it a map pack because a map pack implies no such improvements. You're using loaded language so you don't have to make a point.
And many people were upset that SMB2usa changed too much. Where you upset at SMB3 going back to standard Mario gameplay and SMW not changing that much? Hell, SMW went back to SMB1 level tropes after SMB3 expanded concepts. Do you hate SMW?
And what would you replace them with? They're trinkets of look of which doesn't matter that are hidden within levels for extra challenge. SMW had keys, Yoshi's island had flowers, red coins, and stars, Mario 64 had 100 coins, Sunshine had blue coins, Galaxy 2 had hidden medals and green stars, 3D Land had coins, 3D World has green stars. They are hidden in new and more elaborate ways. The challenge is new each time so their form doesn't matter.
The coins aren't just for collecting, they also unlock more content.
Well, the general consensus from people that have played it seems to be that it's one of or the best 2D Marios...
Again, so SMB3 was a huge disappointment, right? Mario's moveset shrunk and they went back to just one character with one set of moves. It doesn't matter that the level design was great? They gave him a new powerup that allowed him to fly, but powerups don't count? I think you're putting way too much emphasis on something that doesn't make the game worse to play.
If you want to see a game where the physics and movesets make a game worse, look at modern 2D Sonic games, but those also have really bad level design.
If movesets are so important shouldn't 3D World be the most exciting thing you've seen? 4 characters with unique movesets in 3D.
No, but they could cut you off from the flagpole using doors and pipes that have to be unlocked via adventure elements. For example, the ghost houses in NSMB games are disliked because they're less about platforming and more about trying to find the exit. They still have flagpoles at the end, but you gotta find them. 3D Land had a level that was essentially a Zelda dungeon where you had to use fire Mario to light torches to open doors. One level from the 3D World demo had a section where you had to collect 5 keys to unlock a warp box to reach the flag pole. It is quite easy to use flagpoles in the same way that power stars work. There's nothing stopping them from putting keys at the end of an eel's tail that unlocks the path to the flagpole.
I would rather have a higher amount of unique levels, possibly with hidden exits, than a level you go through 7 times with goals like "Climb to the top of the mountain and do something!" and "Climb to the top of the same mountain and do something else!"
Also, 3D Land uses star coins as power stars. Although the levels end in flag poles, you need to unlock the way forward by collecting the star coins. It's likely that 3D World will use the green stars the same way, so you basically have flagpoles and power stars in the same game.
Mario Galaxy had a lot more platforming to the point that it's closer to 3D Land than it is to Mario 64/Sunshine imo, but the platforming still wasn't as high quality as 3D Land. 3D Land was hampered by being on a portable console where it couldn't have very complex level design. It should be refreshing to play a game like 3D Land that focuses on more challenging platforming on a console powerful enough to not hold the dev team back.
Multiple characters aren't new, but they aren't done often, especially in 3D. When was the last time Peach was playable? Uh-huh.
Despite not being a permanent moveset, the level design is built around the cat powerup. There are walls you can climb to find hidden routes and secrets. They've put new obstacles like wall conveyor belts to make new puzzles for the cat suit. There are new purple blocks that can only be destroyed by the cat suit.
What does it matter if they are sequels? The mechanics for NSMBU are similar to past games, the level design and gameplay are vastly improved. 3D World shares design philosophies with 3D Land, but 3D Land is on a portable console. The difference in power and what they can do between the games is enormous. We've already seen lots of things that 3D Land never did.
Mario is a guy who runs through levels jumping on things to reach a goal. Sometimes the goal is linear or more like an adventure. Sometimes the 3D games forgot they were platformers and didn't have as much level traversal through skilled platforming.
NSMBU is a 2D game that takes Mario 2D platforming to its greatest heights through it's amazing level design. 3D Land, while having shorter levels due to the hardware it was on, took 3D Mario platforming to its most challenging levels so far.
3D World has a new powerup that allows him to interact with levels in a way never done before in Mario, but that's good enough for SMB3 but not here, apparently.
It's exciting to see what they do with a 3D Mario platformer where platforming is king when they aren't limited by the hardware constraints of the 3DS. And even then, it will surely still have adventurish parts, and those will be great, too.
Davey Cakes
Member
I'm going to be buying this no matter what, so I've basically avoided all media (except for some screenshots in threads) since the original trailer.
Regardless of the disappointments for what this game could have been it's still going to be a blast, especially in multiplayer.
But yeah, I can't think of a Mario game I truly didn't enjoy so from what I've seen of Mario 3D World, nothing will change. I like what I see, even if I'm not entirely blown away. It may not be some revolution in style like Galaxy but it's going to be fun. I will reserve myself just a bit since I didn't enjoy 3D Land as much as the Galaxies, but that's only going by the assumption that 3D World will mirror 3D Land any more than NSMB Wii/U mirrored NSMB DS.
Regardless of the disappointments for what this game could have been it's still going to be a blast, especially in multiplayer.
I don't even see how it's possible to truly dislike the NSMB games, at least for anyone who's experienced NSMB Wii and U. Bland art style (which is improved in U) and questionable score notwithstanding. Great Mario games. Not ridiculously innovative other than the inclusion of multiplayer and new powerups, but playing those games was just so much fun and the levels were well-designed like most people have said a million times over.
But yeah, I can't think of a Mario game I truly didn't enjoy so from what I've seen of Mario 3D World, nothing will change. I like what I see, even if I'm not entirely blown away. It may not be some revolution in style like Galaxy but it's going to be fun. I will reserve myself just a bit since I didn't enjoy 3D Land as much as the Galaxies, but that's only going by the assumption that 3D World will mirror 3D Land any more than NSMB Wii/U mirrored NSMB DS.
Exterminieren
Banned
Only in the sense that they were better, I guess.
no. I wasn't a fan of the New games (besides NSMBU which is brilliant) and I think this looks amazing. People are just overanalyzing things since we've seen the same four levels over and over, probably not even the 5% of what this game's got, or just plaink dislike SM3DL and think this is more of the same
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
So the game is now 3 months away..not 4. This gives me reason to complain. To complain about no footage or screenshot whatsoever of the god dang frog suit. Where is it?
I'd come back after Zelda.
joffocakes
Member
Have they said the frog suit is in? I figured the frog suit was likely replaced entirely by the penguin suit since it functions much the same underwater but with added belly-slide fun on land.
bumpkin
Member
There's a frog suit in this? Nice...
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Around E3 nintendo confirmed it was in the game.
Gimped like what? The frog suit can only swim and stupid jump.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
It really bothers me how homogenized the 3D series has become. Back on the Wii, there was clear distinction between the New Super Mario and Mario Galaxy series. Their existence as two entities was completely valid in each offering a specific experience.
Now the lines have been blurred where Super Mario World literally looks like a 3D sequel to a game we just got. The over abundance of 2d levels, multiplayer, even worse is some of the 2D ui and textures look resampled from NSMBU. The level clear screen for example.
Now the lines have been blurred where Super Mario World literally looks like a 3D sequel to a game we just got. The over abundance of 2d levels, multiplayer, even worse is some of the 2D ui and textures look resampled from NSMBU. The level clear screen for example.
this.
we saw the leaked Zelda trailer, they'll probably open those gates next week. after than they'll probably start the overload of Mario.
BigEvilTurtle
Banned
Yeah, it's almost like they're pumping out generic titles while they work hard on a new, unique title behind the sce--
WAIT, PLEASE TELL ME THAT IS TRUE.
Spieler Eins
Member
Never. Gotta ignore it and pray that Koizumi is also working on something that is not utterly generic and exists because the devs want to make it and not solely because 3D Land 1 captured a couple of NSMB fans.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Dont believe his lies
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
They definitely are working on other projects. Non Mario related I would strongly guess too. But that's another topic.
Spieler Eins
Member
I hope so. Jungle Beat was great. And we dont need the Mario series split again.
you should expect this with added polish. unless Nintendo goes meta and provides some artworky boxart (nah...it's a Mario game)
I thought NSMBWii was merely passable while playing it, but retroactively dislike it for what it's done to my image of Mario.
thanks!
That was NSMD, imho.
The Wii version was really good and I enjoyed it a lot in multiplayer. The U episode is even better, in terms of level design, and with nice addition (such as offtv and miiverse)
Btw, 3DWorld will obviously be more similar to the great 3DLand, while I'm optimistic also about its multiplayer part
can't wait to taste all this platforming goodness on the Wii U starting with Rayman this autumn
Rizsparky
Member
IMO local multiplayer is a lot more fun than online multiplayer, probably due to the face to face interaction.
I agree
how could the local be a step backwards when it's the first time we see it in a 3D mario?
Considering how fun the multi was in New Mario Wii and U, I can't wait to test it. While ejoying of course also the single player (considering how good 3DLand was)
also because for other games they ARE offering online MP (Kart, Mario Strikers,..) so probably IS an issue of feeling and rules imho
:Motorbass
Member
While it's true that it is about precision, it's not that important to have a precise representation of the other players all the time. A few milliseconds more or less with interpolation wouldn't make a difference as long as your own game is smooth.
But I really don't see the point in online Multiplayer for this.
TDLink
Member
Been playing Trine 2 on Wii U online with a friend the last few days (got it on sale). Somehow we never noticed any lag/issues. It could be argued that Trine requires less precision than Mario but I really don't know about that, especially with some of the puzzles Trine has you do.
If Indies can do it than so can Nintendo. That's my thought.
I do still prefer Local Co-op to Online Co-op whenever possible though.
If Indies can do it than so can Nintendo. That's my thought.
I do still prefer Local Co-op to Online Co-op whenever possible though.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
What?
Interceptor
Banned
True for other platformers/games. But it becomes crucial if you can physically interact with each other.
There's a video of 5 levels from the game (with 3 people playing multiplayer). Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1zfZRVrFWU#t=10]
It looks like a ton of fun!
It looks like a ton of fun!
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Oh man, back when this thread started :lol