KittenMaster
Member
Pokemon is closer to a trading card game than simple rock paper scissors.
But you can use it to and skip all that boring guessing game bit. Just like people are skipping all that boring breeding and raising.Yea, I'm so sensitive, you hurt my feelings.
I was just saying that because you literally don't seem to have any interest in Pokemon, you were surprised people played Pokemon competitively, and you don't seem to understand how it works. Unless you want to know, there really is no point in discussion with you.
Equalizer? You have to be kidding me. Getting a hacked Pokemon (it isn't even possible right now, and likely won't be for a long time) that passes through checks just gives them a Pokemon that anyone can breed now. Now hacked/cloning Pokemon will undermine trading, but that isn't what this thread is about.
This program destroys battling. It is in no way an equalizer.
I totally am. Except I'm not being as acidic and nasty about it.You aren't at all.
The fun of raising, breeding and trading in pokemon is your knowledge and skill. Hacking programs take that away completely.No other competitive fighter forces you to put hours into creating a team even usable for battling. While I completely agree that X and Y have made breeding and EV training easier, IV's still exist and they're time consuming. I'm someone who has been battling legally and yet I really wouldn't care if people started hacking "legal" pokemon.
The fun of competitive battling in pokemon is your knowledge and skill. This program takes that away completely.
You assume no one will notice or care. But when the opponent fields a team of perfect shinies, you begin to wonder...if one person has a fully hacked team and the other does not.....nobody will notice or care
if one person has this battle analyser thing and the other does not, 2nd player is screwed
nice false equivalency though
That's easy. I just pick the right move every time. Just like I hatch all my eggs shiny with perfect IVs every time. Oh, wait... I don't. Fancy that.A legal hacked Pokemon is generally defined as a Pokemon that could have been obtained though normal game means. Whether or not it is cheating or simply degenerate behavior, we may never know, but can you explain how you can replicate what Battle Analyzer does through in-game means?
Fact: The odds of hacking a shiny perfect IV Pokémon, even from perfect parents are 1/134217728. What are the odds of picking the perfect move every time in a battle?You're using disingenuous arguments based on a faulty assumption. You can keep claiming that using hacked Pokemon is equivalent to using the Battle Analyser, but I want you to know that you're completely in the wrong.
Fact: Hacked Pokemon are no more powerful than regular Pokemon. A hacked Tyranitar is no more powerful than my Tyranitar that I bred. I am not disadvantaged in anyway when I play against users that used hacked Pokemon.
Fact: The Battle Analyser gives a significant advantage against your opponent. This is irrefutable. It's tantamount to mind reading.
They are not the same in any way. Stop claiming that they are.
Wait you mean the game doesn't say if your opponent has made their move? Game Freak...why? I knew it, I should have skipped another generation...then again I guess if someone picks moves quickly it will be obvious when they switch due to it taking longer.Would it be possible to create a program that tells you when the other person made a move, but not tell you what that move was? Then at least people won't wait the full length of the match.
I'm not into Pokemon at all but sending packages without encryption is honestly a major oversight, I would be embarrased if I coded that net code.
Seriously, is not even a complex thing to do, and sending the whole information of the battle before both are ready to your opponent? WAT.
After that, I don't think anyone should bother arguing with you.But you can use it to and skip all that boring guessing game bit. Just like people are skipping all that boring breeding and raising.
I have been playing Pokemon longer than most of you, don't be a condescending a**hole.
Yes. I understand how it works.
No. I don't think it's competitive, because it doesn't require any sort of skill. If grinding and building stats equals skills, and being competitive is based on those skills, then of course it isn't.
When Nintendo finally evolves their outdated turn based battle system to something that actually require skills (which means reflexes, thinking, awareness, among many other things), then let's call it competitive. Otherwise is just rock scisor paper with flashy effects.
PD: Please, if you want to argue something don't reply with a "Oh boy, it's just 2deep4u".
Why not? It's totally legitimate to skip the parts of the game you don't like to get the intended results. I've been told so over and over. This is just skipping a different part.After that, I don't think anyone should bother arguing with you.
I am not justifying the ability to hack nearly unobtainable Pokemon. That has nothing to do with the matter at hand here.Fact: The odds of hacking a shiny perfect IV Pokémon, even from perfect parents are 1/134217728. What are the odds of picking the perfect move every time in a battle?
So you don't give a damn if the online competitive aspect of Pokemon is potentially ruined because of this program. Well that's fine and dandy for you, but for the people posting in this thread, it does matter. Your posts only serve to derail the main issue here; The Battle Analyser completely kills competitive Pokemon.Here's the thing, I don't actually care much for battling, I like the collection aspect more. But having a special thing in your collection has no value if anyone can just make one at the click of a button. Thankfully that's not happening in X/Y... yet.
Don't let your vendetta against hacking blind you to the reality of the situation. This kind of cheating is on a completely different level.How many people here would be defending such a program, by the way? Instant perfect Pokémon at the click of a button? Blatantly cheating, and yet...
I get your point.Why not? It's totally legitimate to skip the parts of the game you don't like to get the intended results. I've been told so over and over. This is just skipping a different part.
We're calling Hawthorne out on his claim that hacking a Pokemon is equivalent to using a program that grants you access to your opponents teams and moves in advance. They're not even in the same realm of magnitude.
It's a silly claim.
Once Chess stops being turn based and starts requiring skill I might give it a shot.
Yeah, I might be exaggerating a bit for effect here. It's just... well... fascinating to see people defend one and attack the other. It doesn't make sense to me. Both skip important parts of the game, although which part is more important depend on why you play Pokémon, I suppose. I'd rather have a special Pokémon than a powerful one. I'm the kind of player who'd field an all Eeveelution team because it amuses me. (Eevee team still a WIP).I get your point.
Except it's not a good analogy since for trading you can trade with people you trust. This battle exploit? It's impossible to know they're using it. I think you just need to calm down and realize that the majority of us dislike cheating and hope Game Freak remedies both battling and trading hacks/exploits and people are just calling you out on trying to equate the two.
You seem to be under the impression that people we were defending hacking in this thread.Yeah, I might be exaggerating a bit for effect here. It's just... well... fascinating to see people defend one and attack the other. It doesn't make sense to me. Both skip important parts of the game, although which part is more important depend on why you play Pokémon, I suppose. I'd rather have a special Pokémon than a powerful one. I'm the kind of player who'd field an all Eeveelution team because it amuses me. (Eevee team still a WIP).
Game Freak seem to be pushing towards playing with strangers online in X and Y, though. You know, Wonder Trade, random battles and such. They really need to get their act together and fix this. All of it.
Although, I do sort of find it amusing that they didn't bother to encrypt the battle data. I mean... isn't that kind of a rookie mistake?
I mean... isn't that kind of a rookie mistake?
We're only saying it is a false equivalency. Hacked Pokemon is cheating still, but one that makes no real difference for us who just breed our Pokemon.Yeah, I might be exaggerating a bit for effect here. It's just... well... fascinating to see people defend one and attack the other. It doesn't make sense to me.
Although, I do sort of find it amusing that they didn't bother to encrypt the battle data. I mean... isn't that kind of a rookie mistake?
Oh, I guess I owe an apology to some of you, then. Sorry, got carried away.You seem to be under the impression that people we were defending hacking in this thread.
We weren't.
Eh, I've heard worse, but it's one of those omissions that's car-crash like. You know it's awful, and yet you can help but stare. Especially since they have encryption on the GTS. I mean the game can already do this... but it doesn't.It's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard honestly.
False equivalency.But you can use it to and skip all that boring guessing game bit. Just like people are skipping all that boring breeding and raising.
That may be fun for YOU but it's not for everyone. Guess what? Someone that doesn't find it fun and decides to skip that aspect to get quicker results does not affect you when battling competitivly. Someone with the battle anylyser? affects my game and ruins it.The fun of raising, breeding and trading in pokemon is your knowledge and skill. Hacking programs take that away completely.
I don't see any way people can defend hacked Pokémon and be against this. Both are cheating. Both need to be dealt with by Game Freak. Is the real problem here that this program destroys the part of Pokémon you care about? Well, welcome to the club. Except my favorite part of the game was already destroyed generations ago.
You're now moving your argument to shiny's. The biggest concern with hacked pokemon in COMPETITIVE battling is if they're stats have been unfairly altered. If a pokemon is obtainable then this doesn't effect the system. You being bitter about shiny hacks is something completely different from the original argument.It's not a false equivalency, though. It just targets a different part of the game. This hurts battling, hacking pokémon hurts collecting.
Come on. You know this is a terrible example.That's easy. I just pick the right move every time. Just like I hatch all my eggs shiny with perfect IVs every time. Oh, wait... I don't. Fancy that.
Here's the thing, I don't actually care much for battling, I like the collection aspect more. But having a special thing in your collection has no value if anyone can just make one at the click of a button. Thankfully that's not happening in X/Y... yet.
How many people here would be defending such a program, by the way? Instant perfect Pokémon at the click of a button? Blatantly cheating, and yet...
Mind you, rock paper scissors is bassed off on mindgames and prediction and, guess what? Is not competitive.
It absolutely can be.
Also, making something require reflexes does not make it more strategic.
It absolutely can be.
Also, making something require reflexes does not make it more strategic.
Once Chess stops being turn based and starts requiring skill I might give it a shot.
Wait, rock paper scissors ISN'T competitive? You mean I'm NOT competing with the other player to decide a winner?
What if it was created purely as a means of competition, such as rock paper scissors. It wasn't created to show that one person can do all the handshapes as a novelty.You are comparing chess to Pokemon battles? You people are truly delusional to even do that.
And just because something "can be" competitive, it doesn't mean it actually is.
I don't believe in arbitrary blocks that make it harder for new players to get into the game with no strategic gameplay value.
I don't really know how seriously you played Smash based off of this. I mean L - Canceling, Wavedashing and platform canceling all have variations of success. There isn't a binary state of success. As a result people can have ranging competencies in all of these skills.
You are comparing chess to Pokemon battles? You people are truly delusional to even do that.
And just because something "can be" competitive, it doesn't mean it actually is.
Yeah sure, lets make a RPS league. Federer and Ronaldo will form their own teams.
L-Canceling is definitely binary, the other two have plenty of scenarios where you're better of not doing it
Since I've already said most of what I wanted, and kind of went a little too far with some of it, I'm gonna make this short.False equivalency.
That may be fun for YOU but it's not for everyone. Guess what? Someone that doesn't find it fun and decides to skip that aspect to get quicker results does not affect you when battling competitivly. Someone with the battle anylyser? affects my game and ruins it.
You're now moving your argument to shiny's. The biggest concern with hacked pokemon in COMPETITIVE battling is if they're stats have been unfairly altered. If a pokemon is obtainable then this doesn't effect the system. You being bitter about shiny hacks is something completely different from the original argument.
Come on. You know this is a terrible example.
Oh I'm sorry then may I ask why you care this much about hacking "legit" pokemon then if you don't even care for this scene?
It really needs an MMO too. Get with the time chess.Once Chess stops being turn based and starts requiring skill I might give it a shot.
Its as delusional as comparing Pokemon to Rock paper scisors.You are comparing chess to Pokemon battles? You people are truly delusional to even do that.
Since I've already said most of what I wanted, and kind of went a little too far with some of it, I'm gonna make this short.
Here's the fun thing about Pokémon. And probably one of the secrets to its success. You can play it in many ways. Some battle competitively, some just beat the story, some breed pokémon, and some go for the full Pokédex. All of these are valid ways to play. Some have already been compromised by hacks, some have not. That parts I like best? Yeah, you can pretty much skip all of that with a hack, at least up to B2/W2.
I'm just having a bit of a hard time finding sympathy when the community part that were the source of a lot of the hacks that affect trading and collecting suddenly get hit with a hack of their own. I believe the word is "schadenfreude".
At least this one is big enough that Game Freak should need to step up and notice. I wonder what they'll do, if anything. We know X and Y can be patched, so... time for an arms race?
Oh wow... I forgot how sensitive are some of you guys.
It really needs an MMO too. Get with the time chess.
Its as delusional as comparing Pokemon to Rock paper scisors.
This dude right here is straight out of 4chan...
Condescending, rude, and completely ignorant of the subject about which he is talking.
I am hoping that the Ranked Wi-fi will do the same, to be honest. Kalos natives or Kalos-born only. Would be a fair enough rule to avoid bringing in too much cheese from older games. And that's not even talking about hacked Pokémon there. Some movesets are just plain more powerful than what Kalos can provide. Wipe the online battle board clean-ish, but let people transfer over their old favorites.
Just don't patch instancheck until after I get my perfect shinies!
RPS is actually closer to Pokemon than chess is. But reducing competitive Pokemon to RPS is as obtuse as it can get before dipping into stupidity. Even when you remove the breeding/aspect of the game (via hacks, RNG, etc), Pokemon is far deeper than a game with only 3 equally viable choices.Its as delusional as comparing Pokemon to Rock paper scisors.
They announced earlier today that Special Battle mode in the upcoming season has these rules
There are other methods for getting perfect shinies that take a bit more time but are far easier than breeding for it.Just don't patch instancheck until after I get my perfect shinies!
There are other methods for getting perfect shinies that take a bit more time but are far easier than breeding for it.
Counter program's being made. Long story short, it sends anybody using this program bullshit data. Right now a database of believable movesets is being worked on. The database is geared towards PGL Season 2 Special, though. But, you can add your own sets to it to make it work.
Hopefully GF gets an actual patch goin' but I suppose this'll work in the meantime.
As funny as it is to send him believable wrong information, I think it's better to just have like something obviously wrong to tell the other person "no that's not gonna work silly, now let's fight properly" y'know. Since tricking him will still influence the match.Counter program's being made. Long story short, it sends anybody using this program bullshit data. Right now a database of believable movesets is being worked on. The database is geared towards PGL Season 2 Special, though. But, you can add your own sets to it to make it work.
Hopefully GF gets an actual patch goin' but I suppose this'll work in the meantime.
What other methods?
People take seriously... Pokemon? Wow...
You have to understand that unless Nintendo develops a Pokemon MMORPG, there always will be cheating in these games.
k.
Have you ever tried to cheat in a serious MMORPG? It's not quite as simple as "download free tool free 99x Rare candy"
Just what? Are you telling me that rock paper scisors is truly competitive, too?
Oh wow... I forgot how sensitive are some of you guys.
I have been playing Pokemon longer than most of you, don't be a condescending a**hole.
Yes. I understand how it works.
No. I don't think it's competitive, because it doesn't require any sort of skill. If grinding and building stats equals skills, and being competitive is based on those skills, then of course it isn't.
When Nintendo finally evolves their outdated turn based battle system to something that actually require skills (which means reflexes, thinking, awareness, among many other things), then let's call it competitive. Otherwise is just rock scisor paper with flashy effects.
PD: Please, if you want to argue something don't reply with a "Oh boy, it's just 2deep4u".
You are comparing chess to Pokemon battles? You people are truly delusional to even do that.
And just because something "can be" competitive, it doesn't mean it actually is.
Yeah sure, lets make a RPS league. Federer and Ronaldo will form their own teams.
Pokemon is to competition what fanfics are to literature.
Way to go, that will show everyone how wrong I am.
The next thing I'll read in this thread is that Pokemon is as competitive as Starcraft or SF4.
But, go on... you can argue as much as you want, obviously you have your own points of view and I have mine.