KittenMaster
Member
Pokemon is closer to a trading card game than simple rock paper scissors.
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Pokémon X/Y Online Battle Exploit - "Battle Analyser"
- Thread starter UltimateIke
- Start date
But you can use it to and skip all that boring guessing game bit. Just like people are skipping all that boring breeding and raising.Yea, I'm so sensitive, you hurt my feelings.
I was just saying that because you literally don't seem to have any interest in Pokemon, you were surprised people played Pokemon competitively, and you don't seem to understand how it works. Unless you want to know, there really is no point in discussion with you.
Equalizer? You have to be kidding me. Getting a hacked Pokemon (it isn't even possible right now, and likely won't be for a long time) that passes through checks just gives them a Pokemon that anyone can breed now. Now hacked/cloning Pokemon will undermine trading, but that isn't what this thread is about.
This program destroys battling. It is in no way an equalizer.
I totally am. Except I'm not being as acidic and nasty about it.
The fun of raising, breeding and trading in pokemon is your knowledge and skill. Hacking programs take that away completely.
I don't see any way people can defend hacked Pokémon and be against this. Both are cheating. Both need to be dealt with by Game Freak. Is the real problem here that this program destroys the part of Pokémon you care about? Well, welcome to the club. Except my favorite part of the game was already destroyed generations ago.
You assume no one will notice or care. But when the opponent fields a team of perfect shinies, you begin to wonder...
It's not a false equivalency, though. It just targets a different part of the game. This hurts battling, hacking pokémon hurts collecting.
That's easy. I just pick the right move every time. Just like I hatch all my eggs shiny with perfect IVs every time. Oh, wait... I don't. Fancy that.
Fact: The odds of hacking a shiny perfect IV Pokémon, even from perfect parents are 1/134217728. What are the odds of picking the perfect move every time in a battle?
Here's the thing, I don't actually care much for battling, I like the collection aspect more. But having a special thing in your collection has no value if anyone can just make one at the click of a button. Thankfully that's not happening in X/Y... yet.
How many people here would be defending such a program, by the way? Instant perfect Pokémon at the click of a button? Blatantly cheating, and yet...
Starwolf_UK
Member
Wait you mean the game doesn't say if your opponent has made their move? Game Freak...why? I knew it, I should have skipped another generation...then again I guess if someone picks moves quickly it will be obvious when they switch due to it taking longer.
It's the same mentality of people who code stuff to say, have infinite blue shells or stars in Mario Kart online, or being able to shoot through walls in FPS's. Sure, it's interesting from a programming perspective, but if you abuse it yourself and/or release it publicly, you're an asshole.
And McNum, the point is that they're both bad for Pokemon, but you can at least trade with trustworthy people and still receive legitimate Pokemon. As of now, it's impossible to tell if people are using this program to mind read your strats while battling. And as many people said, perfect Pokemon is at least "less bad" since it doesn't affect the game competitively as much. I don't see how you can equate that.
After that, I don't think anyone should bother arguing with you.
How about this? If it was simply Rock, Paper, Scissors with flashy effects like you said... Why the hell would someone go through the trouble to create a Battle Analyzer program? That's alot of wasted time for such a simple battle system so you say.
You have to stop trolling. Its not your strong suit.
You may have been playing longer than others, that may be true. But its clear you still don't know alot about the game at all.
Why not? It's totally legitimate to skip the parts of the game you don't like to get the intended results. I've been told so over and over. This is just skipping a different part.
And to repeat myself: Yes, I think this program is a horrible thing for the game and Game Freak really should do an emergency shutdown of ranked battles and get some encryption put on that ASAP. I doubt anyone here will disagree with me on that.
But yeah, this discussion is probably over. We're most likely not going to agree on more than that.
Personally, I just hope Game Freak doesn't stop there as there's still more to do in fighting cheats.
I am not justifying the ability to hack nearly unobtainable Pokemon. That has nothing to do with the matter at hand here.
So you don't give a damn if the online competitive aspect of Pokemon is potentially ruined because of this program. Well that's fine and dandy for you, but for the people posting in this thread, it does matter. Your posts only serve to derail the main issue here; The Battle Analyser completely kills competitive Pokemon.
Don't let your vendetta against hacking blind you to the reality of the situation. This kind of cheating is on a completely different level.
I get your point.
Except it's not a good analogy since for trading you can trade with people you trust. This battle exploit? It's impossible to know they're using it. I think you just need to calm down and realize that the majority of us dislike cheating and hope Game Freak remedies both battling and trading hacks/exploits and people are just calling you out on trying to equate the two.
Yeah, even as someone who is a total outside observer, that argument is bunk.
It's like saying that powerleveling someone to max rank in an MMO (rather than having them do it the 'legit' way by questing and doing dungeons with people of their level) is the same as installing radar or speedhacks. (Edit: Or, if we want to get more exact, using a saved game editor in a game (say, Diablo II or Borderlands II) to get a max ranked character is the "same" as using something to give yourself unlimited ammo/health/mana/whatever in a PvP environment.)
It makes no sense. Sure, both cheating, but one has a direct impact on the outcome of a head-to-head competitive event, the "end game" so to speak, while another removes "hurdles" (honestly for lack of a better term) to getting there. If you believe there are shades of grey, the second set is when it goes fully black/white.
I know, personally, I often like to get my second or third character in a game powerleveled because I have already experienced 'the journey' and want to get back into the end game.
theprodigy
Member
tbf, there's no element of chance in chess (*cough* missing Will-O-Wisps all day *cough*)
still though, lmao at equating this thing to hacked Pokemon
Yeah, I might be exaggerating a bit for effect here. It's just... well... fascinating to see people defend one and attack the other. It doesn't make sense to me. Both skip important parts of the game, although which part is more important depend on why you play Pokémon, I suppose. I'd rather have a special Pokémon than a powerful one. I'm the kind of player who'd field an all Eeveelution team because it amuses me. (Eevee team still a WIP).
Game Freak seem to be pushing towards playing with strangers online in X and Y, though. You know, Wonder Trade, random battles and such. They really need to get their act together and fix this. All of it.
Although, I do sort of find it amusing that they didn't bother to encrypt the battle data. I mean... isn't that kind of a rookie mistake?
You seem to be under the impression that people we were defending hacking in this thread.
We weren't.
It's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard honestly.
We're only saying it is a false equivalency. Hacked Pokemon is cheating still, but one that makes no real difference for us who just breed our Pokemon.
theprodigy
Member
it's Gamefreak
Oh, I guess I owe an apology to some of you, then. Sorry, got carried away.
Eh, I've heard worse, but it's one of those omissions that's car-crash like. You know it's awful, and yet you can help but stare. Especially since they have encryption on the GTS. I mean the game can already do this... but it doesn't.
False equivalency.
That may be fun for YOU but it's not for everyone. Guess what? Someone that doesn't find it fun and decides to skip that aspect to get quicker results does not affect you when battling competitivly. Someone with the battle anylyser? affects my game and ruins it.
You're now moving your argument to shiny's. The biggest concern with hacked pokemon in COMPETITIVE battling is if they're stats have been unfairly altered. If a pokemon is obtainable then this doesn't effect the system. You being bitter about shiny hacks is something completely different from the original argument.
Come on. You know this is a terrible example.
Oh I'm sorry then may I ask why you care this much about hacking "legit" pokemon then if you don't even care for this scene?
cosmicblizzard
Banned
It absolutely can be.
Also, making something require reflexes does not make it more strategic.
theprodigy
Member
chess is a game for scrubs, didn't you hear
I wonder if they know that Rock Paper Scissors actually does get tournaments, hahaha.
MrChocolate
Member
You are comparing chess to Pokemon battles? You people are truly delusional to even do that.
And just because something "can be" competitive, it doesn't mean it actually is.
Yeah sure, lets make a RPS league. Federer and Ronaldo will form their own teams.
What if it was created purely as a means of competition, such as rock paper scissors. It wasn't created to show that one person can do all the handshapes as a novelty.
I don't really know how seriously you played Smash based off of this. I mean L - Canceling, Wavedashing and platform canceling all have variations of success. There isn't a binary state of success. As a result people can have ranging competencies in all of these skills.
I know the first time I played Crystal City like back in 2005 people weren't nearly as good as they are now, but I lost to half that crew simply because they could power shield like every hit (messing up my L Cancels). As a result I don't consider those elements 'not strategic.' It's how you decide to spend your time playing the game that relates 100% with where your current skill is at. My friend Forward was unaffected because he practiced in training mode against varying character types and gave them starmen because that changed the timing on the L canceling. So when Crystal City Power Shielded like every hit it didn't phase him.
So again, the comparison isn't a very good one.
theprodigy
Member
L-Canceling is definitely binary, the other two have plenty of scenarios where you're better of not doing it
You do realize that SRPGs evolved from chess right? I'm not saying one is better than the other, don't misread that but a lot of turn based RPG's and SRPG's borrow the same basic mechanics from chess then adds their own flare.
1 player moves at a time, 1 "piece" moves at a time, there are strict rules about what "pieces" can and can't do, etc.
Also anything can be competitive so long as two people are interested enough about it.
Not sure if I was unclear or you just ran with something.
Anyway, I just mean all of them have variations of being done: (good, great, super duper well.)
Back on topic:
Regardless, Poke'mon needs to be completely unhackable for me to care about the scene or the competitive angle.
The reason this was developed first was because the game was so locked down, and would have been likely less focused on if we could just edit and backup/restore savefiles to carts.
As for backup/restore save files, it's absolutely possible, as you can do it with DS games, write and rewrite the save file data on the chip.
While I will never use this program because I'm not even in the slightest interested in battling real people (ever), I support the technological development of programs for pokemon x/y.
As for backup/restore save files, it's absolutely possible, as you can do it with DS games, write and rewrite the save file data on the chip.
While I will never use this program because I'm not even in the slightest interested in battling real people (ever), I support the technological development of programs for pokemon x/y.
Since I've already said most of what I wanted, and kind of went a little too far with some of it, I'm gonna make this short.
Here's the fun thing about Pokémon. And probably one of the secrets to its success. You can play it in many ways. Some battle competitively, some just beat the story, some breed pokémon, and some go for the full Pokédex. All of these are valid ways to play. Some have already been compromised by hacks, some have not. That parts I like best? Yeah, you can pretty much skip all of that with a hack, at least up to B2/W2.
I'm just having a bit of a hard time finding sympathy when the community part that were the source of a lot of the hacks that affect trading and collecting suddenly get hit with a hack of their own. I believe the word is "schadenfreude".
At least this one is big enough that Game Freak should need to step up and notice. I wonder what they'll do, if anything. We know X and Y can be patched, so... time for an arms race?
Starwolf_UK
Member
It really needs an MMO too. Get with the time chess.
Its as delusional as comparing Pokemon to Rock paper scisors.
Chezzymann
Member
Anyone who uses this is an awful asshole.
Ivan el Trolazo
Banned
maybe encrypting the battles would add traffic to the servers, making it more expensive to maintain for nintendo/gamefreak?
theprodigy
Member
yeah, too bad it doesn't actually affect most VGC tournaments, and people have dedicated communities/simulators to practice in
WHOOPS
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
This dude right here is straight out of 4chan...
Condescending, rude, and completely ignorant of the subject about which he is talking.
MrChocolate
Member
Pokemon is to competition what fanfics are to literature.
Way to go, that will show everyone how wrong I am.
The next thing I'll read in this thread is that Pokemon is as competitive as Starcraft or SF4.
But, go on... you can argue as much as you want, obviously you have your own points of view and I have mine.
They announced earlier today that Special Battle mode in the upcoming season has these rules
SoulUnison
Banned
Ugh.
Little Green Yoda
Member
RPS is actually closer to Pokemon than chess is. But reducing competitive Pokemon to RPS is as obtuse as it can get before dipping into stupidity. Even when you remove the breeding/aspect of the game (via hacks, RNG, etc), Pokemon is far deeper than a game with only 3 equally viable choices.
theprodigy
Member
they had to, otherwise there'd be no way to consistently practice under VGC rules online
PreyingShark
Member
Counter program's being made. Long story short, it sends anybody using this program bullshit data. Right now a database of believable movesets is being worked on. The database is geared towards PGL Season 2 Special, though. But, you can add your own sets to it to make it work.
Hopefully GF gets an actual patch goin' but I suppose this'll work in the meantime.
Hopefully GF gets an actual patch goin' but I suppose this'll work in the meantime.
There are other methods for getting perfect shinies that take a bit more time but are far easier than breeding for it.
entremet
Member
What other methods?
theprodigy
Member
As funny as it is to send him believable wrong information, I think it's better to just have like something obviously wrong to tell the other person "no that's not gonna work silly, now let's fight properly" y'know. Since tricking him will still influence the match.
Spinda's spots are determined by its SV so by mainppulating the way passing down stats work you should be able to get a perfect shiny.
If you come to this thread with close-minded perceptions on a game, people will call you you on it. Attempting to downplay their knowledge ("I've played longer than most of you") will not help you, because it's clear you are alone in this thread regarding your take on this, so rather than start a war with every poster, think on why that is so. Furthermore, I think you will find there are more facts backing other people's posts than yours, so I suggest that, if you can't come in terms with what the others say, at least concede that your way of acting is not helping you.
I usually don't care about these kind of posts because I understand they have their own points on the subject, but I feel you are basing yourself on false premises, so I will try to show you why people are correcting you. I will do so hoping that you are not a troll, but since you have been posting so much and shown some level of care regarding this topic, I'll go ahead. I don't mean to offend you, but I apologize if I do so.
No, that's wrong. Your post works on the assumption that MMOs don't have cheaters, and that's not true.
Now, as for your "item hacking" comment, that rarely happens in MMOs, that's true, but it's not the point of this thread. The point of the thread is to report a cheat that is based on a security exploit that happens in the game, which is serious as online battles are actually hack free.
I'll develop on your idea of competitive games below.
Well, of course, your tone in the posts above is pretty rude (I'm not sure if you intended so, but that's what they comes as)
You seem not believe turn-based games can be strategic. Could you elaborate on why? I can see your take on a game being "competitive" is it relying on real-time actions, but that's a pretty reductive way to deal with the term. For example, with that assumption, you would think TCGs also can't be competitive, since they are turn based just like Pokemon, but we both know that is not correct, right?
As stated above, Pokemon is turn based, and as such requires skills involved in any turn based game like chess, for example. Maybe the method of playing the game is different, but both are turn based and have results based directly on its player input.
Now, rather than defending why you think Pokemon is not competitive (or explaining why you think the other poster's arguments are wrong), you once again downplay other's opinions and attempt to leave the thread saying how nothing can change. But of course nothing will change, your actions through this entire thread seem pretty rude and condensating, and you never attempted to acknowledge other people's points.
The reason I did all this was in the hope that you would stop and think about the situation, and hopefully to help others that share similar views to have a more open dialog. I'm not in a position to moderate your comments or punish you, but as a fellow member I wanted to highlight why I feel you are being treated the way you are in hope of improving the discussion of everyone involved in this thread.
I usually don't care about these kind of posts because I understand they have their own points on the subject, but I feel you are basing yourself on false premises, so I will try to show you why people are correcting you. I will do so hoping that you are not a troll, but since you have been posting so much and shown some level of care regarding this topic, I'll go ahead. I don't mean to offend you, but I apologize if I do so.
No, that's wrong. Your post works on the assumption that MMOs don't have cheaters, and that's not true.
Now, as for your "item hacking" comment, that rarely happens in MMOs, that's true, but it's not the point of this thread. The point of the thread is to report a cheat that is based on a security exploit that happens in the game, which is serious as online battles are actually hack free.
I'll develop on your idea of competitive games below.
Well, of course, your tone in the posts above is pretty rude (I'm not sure if you intended so, but that's what they comes as)
You seem not believe turn-based games can be strategic. Could you elaborate on why? I can see your take on a game being "competitive" is it relying on real-time actions, but that's a pretty reductive way to deal with the term. For example, with that assumption, you would think TCGs also can't be competitive, since they are turn based just like Pokemon, but we both know that is not correct, right?
As stated above, Pokemon is turn based, and as such requires skills involved in any turn based game like chess, for example. Maybe the method of playing the game is different, but both are turn based and have results based directly on its player input.
Now, rather than defending why you think Pokemon is not competitive (or explaining why you think the other poster's arguments are wrong), you once again downplay other's opinions and attempt to leave the thread saying how nothing can change. But of course nothing will change, your actions through this entire thread seem pretty rude and condensating, and you never attempted to acknowledge other people's points.
The reason I did all this was in the hope that you would stop and think about the situation, and hopefully to help others that share similar views to have a more open dialog. I'm not in a position to moderate your comments or punish you, but as a fellow member I wanted to highlight why I feel you are being treated the way you are in hope of improving the discussion of everyone involved in this thread.