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Indie Games [December] Now Voting - Post 741!

Gazoinks

Member
Let's see...

Lacuna Passage is an exploration/survival game set on an accurate Mars. Not releasing till the end of 2014 though

Spice Road is a "strategy trade empire building on the old Silk Road. Town building, social and ecomomic simulation game." Beta out now

Wander is a multiplayer game focused 100% on exploration. No combat, just working together to explore and map out the world. Beta out now

There are probably a ton of others. I'll keep looking.

These all sounds awesome, thanks.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Thanks guys!
Dwarf Fortress, seriously. You don't even need to play that long to see the mineral stuff at work If you immediately dig down.
 
Papo & Yo Impression

I've been reluctant about this game but with IndieGameStand selling it for a minimum of $1 there was no way I could put it off anymore. I've played through it twice now, once a regular run and once a completionist run, getting everything.

The reason I've been reluctant is the same reason I've been interested: the theme. For those who don't know, the game is about a young boy and his relationship to Monster, a huge but friendly beast. Using Monster, you solve various puzzles in order to progress. However, Monster is also your only enemy, as when he consumes a certain kind of frog, he gets violent and uncontrollable. You can calm him down by feeding him a rotten fruit. The game has been pretty clear, already in the marketing, what it's really about. Monster is the boy's father and the frogs are really alcohol. I'm not so sure what the rotten fruit is...

A game that wants to take a serious look at alcoholism is of course very interesting, but it also opens up for quite a lot of problems. It wants to be both a serious narrative and a compelling traditional game at the same time. These ideals often clash. We see it in blockbuster games all the time: the supposedly good guys are ruthlessly murdering hundreds upon hundreds in between cutscenes, but they're still supposed to be the good guys. This kind of dissonance is by no means limited to video games, Hollywood movies are ripe with the same tropes, but video games is still the medium with the most focus on everything being fun, even a game about alcoholism, or poverty, or any serious topic.

It's not hard to see why a game designer would want to make the most gameplay out of the duality of Monster and its gameplay implication, but she musn't. I can see many interesting mechanics coming out of simultaneously using Monster but having to avoid him, but they would often involve deliberately feeding Monster frogs, that is: making a game where you deliberately fuel your father's alcohol addiction. Needless to say, this would be quite problematic.

During the course of the game, there were a few instances where I would deliberately walk into Monster so that he would throw me around violently or feed him frogs. The good news is that this never gave me a gameplay advantage, it was never a positive thing. Why did I do it then? Because it was inevitable. Monster was going to eat a frog either way, so I would feed him in order to calm him down more easily. Monster was going to catch up to me and assault me, so I made sure he did so in a way that ensured I would then have an easier time getting away, to minimize the amount of abuse. This is still problematic. It's still getting your father drunk on purpose. But it's a lot better than what I expected, it was rather rare and it seems like the designers had thought about this problem extensively and tried to avoid it as much as possible.

So, what does the game actually say about alcoholism then? What insight does it give? Is it the simplistic "alcoholism is bad and growing up with an alcoholic father is really tough"? No, it's not that simple.
It's a game about letting go of someone who doesn't want to better themself, no matter how much you may love them.
I'd say that's a message worth telling, and it's not a message that's already been done to death (at least in my experience).

Some have been saying the game is very much in your face with its meaning. It's not subtle about its intentions and reveals the metaphors it uses without the player really having to think about what they could mean.

And they're right. And that's a good thing. I'm of the opinion that if you want to talk about something, you talk about it. You don't cloud your message with metaphors and symbolism that just make it more difficult to understand what you're really saying. David Lynch says there are still things in Mulholland Drive that no one has yet gotten. Well, that means he's a failure as a filmmaker. You may call it preachy, but I'd rather have a preachy game than one with nothing to say, and if the meaning is indecipherable, it might as well not have been there to begin with.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Papo & Yo Impression

I've been reluctant about this game but with IndieGameStand selling it for a minimum of $1 there was no way I could put it off anymore. I've played through it twice now, once a regular run and once a completionist run, getting everything.

The reason I've been reluctant is the same reason I've been interested: the theme. For those who don't know, the game is about a young boy and his relationship to Monster, a huge but friendly beast. Using Monster, you solve various puzzles in order to progress. However, Monster is also your only enemy, as when he consumes a certain kind of frog, he gets violent and uncontrollable. You can calm him down by feeding him a rotten fruit. The game has been pretty clear, already in the marketing, what it's really about. Monster is the boy's father and the frogs are really alcohol. I'm not so sure what the rotten fruit is...

A game that wants to take a serious look at alcoholism is of course very interesting, but it also opens up for quite a lot of problems. It wants to be both a serious narrative and a compelling traditional game at the same time. These ideals often clash. We see it in blockbuster games all the time: the supposedly good guys are ruthlessly murdering hundreds upon hundreds in between cutscenes, but they're still supposed to be the good guys. This kind of dissonance is by no means limited to video games, Hollywood movies are ripe with the same tropes, but video games is still the medium with the most focus on everything being fun, even a game about alcoholism, or poverty, or any serious topic.

It's not hard to see why a game designer would want to make the most gameplay out of the duality of Monster and its gameplay implication, but she musn't. I can see many interesting mechanics coming out of simultaneously using Monster but having to avoid him, but they would often involve deliberately feeding Monster frogs, that is: making a game where you deliberately fuel your father's alcohol addiction. Needless to say, this would be quite problematic.

During the course of the game, there were a few instances where I would deliberately walk into Monster so that he would throw me around violently or feed him frogs. The good news is that this never gave me a gameplay advantage, it was never a positive thing. Why did I do it then? Because it was inevitable. Monster was going to eat a frog either way, so I would feed him in order to calm him down more easily. Monster was going to catch up to me and assault me, so I made sure he did so in a way that ensured I would then have an easier time getting away, to minimize the amount of abuse. This is still problematic. It's still getting your father drunk on purpose. But it's a lot better than what I expected, it was rather rare and it seems like the designers had thought about this problem extensively and tried to avoid it as much as possible.

So, what does the game actually say about alcoholism then? What insight does it give? Is it the simplistic "alcoholism is bad and growing up with an alcoholic father is really tough"? No, it's not that simple.
It's a game about letting go of someone who doesn't want to better themself, no matter how much you may love them.
I'd say that's a message worth telling, and it's not a message that's already been done to death (at least in my experience).

Some have been saying the game is very much in your face with its meaning. It's not subtle about its intentions and reveals the metaphors it uses without the player really having to think about what they could mean.

And they're right. And that's a good thing. I'm of the opinion that if you want to talk about something, you talk about it. You don't cloud your message with metaphors and symbolism that just make it more difficult to understand what you're really saying. David Lynch says there are still things in Mulholland Drive that no one has yet gotten. Well, that means he's a failure as a filmmaker. You may call it preachy, but I'd rather have a preachy game than one with nothing to say, and if the meaning is indecipherable, it might as well not have been there to begin with.

Very good comment on the metaphorical nature of the game. I couldnt put that into words and largely focussed on the gameplay aspects when praising the game.
 
Papo & Yo Impression

So, what does the game actually say about alcoholism then? What insight does it give? Is it the simplistic "alcoholism is bad and growing up with an alcoholic father is really tough"? No, it's not that simple.
It's a game about letting go of someone who doesn't want to better themself, no matter how much you may love them.
I'd say that's a message worth telling, and it's not a message that's already been done to death (at least in my experience).

That last shot is so perfect.

Some have been saying the game is very much in your face with its meaning. It's not subtle about its intentions and reveals the metaphors it uses without the player really having to think about what they could mean.

And they're right. And that's a good thing. I'm of the opinion that if you want to talk about something, you talk about it. You don't cloud your message with metaphors and symbolism that just make it more difficult to understand what you're really saying. David Lynch says there are still things in Mulholland Drive that no one has yet gotten. Well, that means he's a failure as a filmmaker. You may call it preachy, but I'd rather have a preachy game than one with nothing to say, and if the meaning is indecipherable, it might as well not have been there to begin with.

I think It's more people have an issue with the execution. I expected such a game to be more heavy-handed but it wasn't because of mostly the presentation: there was no dialogue, no overly long MGS-style cutscene exposition dump, and much like Brothers the storytelling was more environmental (the statues at the end) and mechanic-based.
 

rybrad

Member
The NG+ is supposed to be harder and there is also a true ending, but like you said there really wasn't enough content to justify multiple playthroughs.

I'm hoping this expansion changes that.
I finished the harder mode which basically amounts to carrying some stupid runes around instead of gear, it is a lame way to make it harder and makes the game even duller. I really hope the DLC makes the game more interesting, I love the idea and the game type, it just needs to be more interesting to be worth time.
 
I finished the harder mode which basically amounts to carrying some stupid runes around instead of gear, it is a lame way to make it harder and makes the game even duller. I really hope the DLC makes the game more interesting, I love the idea and the game type, it just needs to be more interesting to be worth time.

Playthroughs felt way too similar which really defeats the purpose of games with randomly generated content. Stealth boots were by far the best boots in the game and they were guaranteed to drop.

New Sir, You are Being Hunted Update is out and it's got a lot of new changes. A video detailing some of the biggest changes are in the link at the bottom.

IMPORTANT NOTES:
* This update will break your saves. Also, savegames now version controlled. The game won't try to load incompatible saves (this does not mean every new update will break saves, but will stop the game just hanging IF the save is incompatible).

Changes

Axe impact logic totally reworked. Much easier to land a hit now.
- NEW – Alarm Clock timer now settable with Right Mouse (default key).
- NEW – Volume slider for overall game volume added.
- NEW – Controller support for player control. Menus/Inventory still require mouse.
- Scanner now creates noise AI can hear when turned on. You have been warned...
- NEW – Pheasants. Can be shot and cooked. Startle easily.
- NEW – Rabbits. Can be shot and cooked. Or just cuddled.*
- NEW – AI 'State' indicators. Can be toggled on/off in Game Options. Show the current behavioural state of an AI. - This will be anathema to many, but we urge you to try them for a while if only to give us feedback. NOTE: "Used Indicators" will be logged on your stats even if you only have them on for a second.
- Increased despawn timer to 500 seconds. You now have lots of time to find those bodies...
- Reworked Cooking fire spawning. Fires may appear in slightly different positions than you are used to now.
- New lootable items added to certain locations where previously there were none.
- Axe Impact now creates noise AI can hear.
- Pub origin lowered. No more huge step up into pub (was a trip hazard for the inebriated).
- NEW – Wild mushroom gathering. Mushrooms now spawn and respawn periodically in certain locations on the ground.
- NEW – Blunderbuss. New equippable item.
- NEW – Poacher NPC.
- Changed spawn logic for scarecrows to prevent them dropping on top of telepieces.
- NEW – Professions. You can now select a Profession at the start of a new world. This defines your starting equipment and will be logged on your stats screen.
- NEW – Added more infographic tooltip thingers.
- Tweaked some loot distribution values.
- Broken Shotgun/Blunderbus now labelled 'Junk' not 'Dubious'.
- Some AI-hearable volumes for a number of items tweaked (bottles made a bit louder, etc).
- Sundry tweaks to the “release schedule” for AI, bot state variables.
- Reworked LOS scanning for more reliable cover detection in wooded areas.


Fixes

- Fixed potential crash issue on Linux
- Text for a number of books de-typoed.
- Slag heaps in Industrial given foundations
- 'Network Adapter/Hamachi bug' fixed
- Can now use “Interact” key on a trap you are caught in to access pliers (previously had to open inventory with - “Inventory” key while looking at trap...
- Fixed several issues with dog-pinning event. Can no longer kill dogs with axe while pinned, being pinned with a window open no longer breaks...
- Fixed issue where bots fighting could shoot ravens off camera, throwing errors.
- Fixed issue where LODed AI were trying to access deactivated objects.
- Fixed issue with Trombone loot failing to spawn.
- Fixed an issue where Bog Monster took forever to depsawn...
- Fixed issue where Scarecrow loot not being saved could prevent a saved game from loading.
- Fixed issue where dying did not always drop the camera to the ground.
- LODing added to various elements that had non. Deployables, mushrooms, ragdolls etc...
- Fixed serious issue with some object not blocking pathing grid during generation.
- Fixed issue where bots could spawn inside chapels.
- Fixed issue where bots could go off pathing grid and into water.
- Fixed issue where scarecrows could tele-follow you into water.
- Fixed issue where traps and other deployables could fall through bridges.
- Clamped impact camera wobble to prevent crazy swinging when taking massive damage.
- Fixed pixel lines on several textures (barbed wire, menus etc).

http://steamcommunity.com/games/242880/announcements/detail/1983004965879611275
 

oVerde

Banned
Did Out There Somewhere been posted before? It's from here Brazil, quite good level design

ibjAVhRGn6TFb0.gif
 

Gazoinks

Member
Is this the level with one guy on the bottom and the second up top on another platform?

You have to kill the lower guy in a way that slides you off the platform, jump off his body in mid air. This will get you far and high enough to reach the right side wall; then jump up the wall to reach the second guy

Thanks for the help, I took another stab at this last night. Didn't realize you could jump off the side walls. D:

Anyway, very cool game, one of the best so far this month. I suck at it, and the controls feel a bit clunky at times, but it's a lot of fun.
 
Finally NEO Scavenger is on Early Access!
http://store.steampowered.com/app/248860/

Go forth and spread the word!

Edit: I'll re-post my review if anyone was interested in the game:
The raiders left you with nothing, nothing but the ragged clothes on your back and a glass shard. It had been foolish to rest in such an exposed location but the desperate search for shelter from the freezing rain had trumped your nagging exhaustion. And now your mistake had cost you dearly. Another night, another restless sleep in the rain. Hypothermia is a given now. Have to find shelter, real shelter, and supplies...or else death would be coming for you sooner rather than later.

Movement. A lone bandit in the distance. You hurriedly cover your tracks and hide. From your vantage point, you can see the rusted crowbar, the patchwork hide clothing, the backpack. Supplies, warm attire, weapons. The opportunity is too good to pass up.
---
That's just one moment from a typical NEO Scavenger playthrough. It's a bleak gritty post apocalyptic roguelike with a focus on realistic survival and it's one of the most intense and immersive experiences I've played in a while.

NEO Scavenger is a turn-based roguelike, set across a hex-based map, action menus, and text vignettes. That may not seem all that exciting, but it's the underlying gameplay mechanics that make the game stand out. Set in a world ravaged by supernatural occurrences and warfare, you awaken in an abandoned cryotube facility. Choose your traits and skills wisely, as different specializations open up new choices and options. (i.e. an Atheletic person can easily outrun enemies, but a person proficient in Hiding could more easily find cover and sneak away). Once you leave the facility, an expansive map is open to explore. How long you'll survive is another matter.

Sleep in the rain without a sleeping bag? Prepare to come down with severe hypothermia overnight or maybe you'll just freeze to death. Run away from bandits over treacherous terrain? Maybe you'll trip and break a rib. Forgo sleep and stay on the move? You'll pass out from exhaustion. Get cut in a fight? You'd better have painkillers and bandages to prevent the wound from getting infected. Forget to hide your tracks before sleeping? The raiders will have found you by morning. The wealth of options and variables to consider are astounding. Life is short and cheap, death is always lurking on the horizon. The combat is ruthless and brutal, akin to the quick violent encounters seen in The Road or No Country, and while the encounters are experienced through menus and text, you always have a wide array of tactics at your disposal, ranging from simply fleeing to trying to break line of sight and hide to forcing enemies to surrender or just surrendering yourself. Raiders and bandits are numerous and merciless, but the otherworldly creatures and mutants that roam the map are even more dangerous.

Despite being quite playable, NEO Scavenger is still in beta, with more areas, weapons, items, enemies, story vignettes to come. The developer regularly provides updates on what he's working on and adding, and the full game is set to release early 2014. A demo is also available.
 
I'll have to try more of NEO Scavenger. I liked what I played but it had some real problems communicating what you needed to do to handle certain maladies. I died several times from things I should have been able to "fix" but had no idea how to because I was fighting the UI.

I imagine it's come a long way since then. Hope so.
 
As much as I love Papers, Please... I'd have to give it to XCOM. I'm a sucker for turn-based strategy games like that, and they don't make nearly enough of them.
 
More the first half than the second half. Exploration/finding mineral/hydrocarbon deposits/economical practices of selling minerals/oil, that stuff.. I really like games like Miner Dig Deep and SteamWorld Dig on 3DS. But I'm not talking mainly about games like that. I'm just asking if anything "geology" strikes a cord with something someone has seen.

Not map games... we are not cartographers or geographers :p

I have only played it at events so far but Super Motherload might be just right for you.

Also if you happen to be interested in stuff like archaeology as well then I have to recommend La-Mulana. ;)
 

Knurek

Member
Are casual games considered indie?

I'm asking because a recent article on RPS brought into my attention a series of PC picross/nonograms/paint-by-numbers games called World Mosaics.

If anyone's into some puzzling, they are really good, both puzzle and interface-wise. There's a 'story', as seems to be the standard for casual games, but you're safe to just ignore it and concentrate on puzzles.

Of which there's a lot, roughly 300 per game. While this is clearly a game meant for the casual market, meaning there's loads of easier puzzles, nothing that comes close difficulty-wise to Conceptis offering, it's nice in a relaxing sort of way - no need to spend 2-3 hours to solve a single puzzle, usually you're done within 5 minutes. Nothing that requires advance techniques as well, but those are very rarely needed for smaller puzzle sizes (I've seen 10x10 and 15x15 grids so far, but judging from screenshots, games offer up to 25x25 grid size). Definitely less time consuming than Conceptis 100x60 monstrosities.

I've played only World Mosaics 3 so far, so this might be fixed in the later games, but I didn't like that the game penalized you for marking the spaces incorrectly - this is something no other Picross game I played does, and this lowers the difficulty significantly.

Still, highly recommended - there can never be enough of Picross. Free 1 hour trial, and the full games can be had for ~$3

Also, I'm not sure whether the publisher for these games, Big Fish Games, isn't installing some spyware-like client. The games are available on most other casual game sites, so if you're wary of that kind of thing, just google the titles.
 
Saw this on TIG, alpha recently released

Deadlock - $8.99 (PC)
Deadlock-alpha2-11.jpg
Deadlock--alpha2-12.jpg

http://www.deadlock-game.com/index.html

Deadlock is a FPS mixing environmental puzzles with plaftormers elements. The main idea of the game is you must climb a gigantic Tower as fast as possible while avoiding to be kicked down by its security system (robots, turrets...): on your way to the top, you will recover your lost memories and eventually figure out the truth behind this strange universe
 
Steamworld Dig is fantastic, I'm lovin' the western theme and the music seems to be taking it's inspiration from Ennio Morricone's work...which is good thing IMO.
 
Found it in the Greenlight thread:

Interplanetary - PC

Interplanetary is a hard scifi turn-based strategy artillery game, where players wage wars by developing their home planets and firing their interplanetary barrages through the planetary system. Our goal is to have all the classic features a devoted strategy fan wants, but also introduce something fresh to the mix.

637x358.resizedimage

Vote

There is an Alpha build if anyone is interested (Win, OS X)
 

rybrad

Member
Steamworld Dig is fantastic, I'm lovin' the western theme and the music seems to be taking it's inspiration from Ennio Morricone's work...which is good thing IMO.
Good music is probably one of my favorite things about anything Western themed. Looking forward to digging (haha) into the game tonight.
 

Flunkie

Banned
I have only played it at events so far but Super Motherload might be just right for you.

Also if you happen to be interested in stuff like archaeology as well then I have to recommend La-Mulana. ;)

I didn't know if it's multiplayer-focused (as in I'd miss a lot just playing single player) or not, since the trailer I watched seemed to be pretty multiplayer-focued.

Steamworld Dig is fantastic, I'm lovin' the western theme and the music seems to be taking it's inspiration from Ennio Morricone's work...which is good thing IMO.

HOLY SHIT I just now found out this is on Steam. So glad I don't have to play on my 3DS anymore. Well actually, I'd love a Vita version. 3DS is just so uncomfortable to hold for me anymore.


...Gonna try DF for the first time tonight I think.
 
...Gonna try DF for the first time tonight I think.

Prepare to be flabbergasted by the complexity of the world gen/world history alone. I could probably spend hours just creating worlds, looking into the historical figures, and discovering the "stories" that span multiple generations. It's very detailed. Really fascinating stuff those guys are doing.

A new release seems rather near as well judging by the dev blog... can't wait for the adventure mode updates. Fortress mode is the meat and potatoes, but adventure mode has soooo much potential to be one of my favorite games ever.

I hope you enjoy your time with it!
 

Gazoinks

Member
Prepare to be flabbergasted by the complexity of the world gen/world history alone. I could probably spend hours just creating worlds, looking into the historical figures, and discovering the "stories" that span multiple generations. It's very detailed. Really fascinating stuff those guys are doing.

A new release seems rather near as well judging by the dev blog... can't wait for the adventure mode updates. Fortress mode is the meat and potatoes, but adventure mode has soooo much potential to be one of my favorite games ever.

I hope you enjoy your time with it!

It's cuhraaazy. The dude's eventual end goal is for it become a complete fantasy world simulator.

I love the combat in adventure mode.
 
It's cuhraaazy. The dude's eventual end goal is for it become a complete fantasy world simulator.

I love the combat in adventure mode.
Wait, DF is a current game? I always had the impression that it was one of these games from the 80s/90S that inspired a genre
 
Anyone else here playing Starbound? What are your impressions?

And it's getting a big update over the weekend that's altering some of the mechanics and adding new content, and will also will wipe your characters
 
Really, really, really good.
I agree. I really never got into Terraria, but the improved graphics, combat, and whole sci-fi theme is so good. I've played for seven hours already and I've technically done nothing but it feels like I've already experienced more than I ever did in Minecraft or Terraria. For both my characters, I never even left the first planet yet or summoned the first boss
 

Twinduct

Member
Wow, Windforge actually got kickstarted!
It was at like 31k before I went to bed and just barely made it past the funding goal.

So yeah, faith restored :p
 

alllen

Neo Member
http://www.indiedb.com/games/a-crimson-searchlight

The developer of this game sent me a tweet with a link to his game. I like his take on the concept of a Blade Runner inspired game, mixing it with Gone Home style investigative game-play is a wonderful fit. Much more interesting than my forced attempts to interject shooting gameplay into a narrative that didn't require it. Meh, hindsight is 20/20.

The detachment from the 'killing' seems like it may make the choices less meaningful, but it appears they're aware of that and have some sort of consequences system with investigations being related to each other.

It looks very promising, I definitely can't wait to hear more.
 
Master Spy showed up on Patrick Klepek's worth playing, yay.

Saw this on TIG, alpha recently released

Deadlock - $8.99 (PC)
Deadlock-alpha2-11.jpg
Deadlock--alpha2-12.jpg

http://www.deadlock-game.com/index.html

Deadlock is a FPS mixing environmental puzzles with plaftormers elements. The main idea of the game is you must climb a gigantic Tower as fast as possible while avoiding to be kicked down by its security system (robots, turrets...): on your way to the top, you will recover your lost memories and eventually figure out the truth behind this strange universe.

This looks fucking sick, great trailer! Might have to get it when I have some free time with these holidays coming up.

Not The Robots looks pretty unique as a robot stealth game, the top down slightly isometric view reminds me of Volume that I played at an expo, Mike Bithell's new game.
 

_machine

Member
Found it in the Greenlight thread:

Interplanetary - PC



Vote

There is an Alpha build if anyone is interested (Win, OS X)
Thanks.

As I mentioned in the Indie Dev thread, it's made by a few of my friends who just set up a company here in Finland and are looking to greenlight their first title. They just recently updated the alpha version so give it a try and I can relay your thought to the team :)
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Wait, DF is a current game? I always had the impression that it was one of these games from the 80s/90S that inspired a genre

Its still the most complex game ever made and in development. If you play it with a tileset it looks like this:
 
Wow, Windforge actually got kickstarted!
It was at like 31k before I went to bed and just barely made it past the funding goal.

So yeah, faith restored :p
!!!
What! No way! Awesome

Edit: holy shit, 50,161 and their goal was 50K. Is that like the closest KS ever?
 

rybrad

Member
Just beat Steamworld Dig, it's a definite GOTY contender for me. There is just something very satisfying about digging games.
How long did it take you? I put about 2 hours in last night and am having a blast with it. I like how you actually have to plan out your paths to make sure you have a reasonable way to get out while still getting to all the goodies.
 
How long did it take you? I put about 2 hours in last night and am having a blast with it. I like how you actually have to plan out your paths to make sure you have a reasonable way to get out while still getting to all the goodies.

Ingame time said 5 hours. I got most of the resources dug out and unlocked everything except the final upgrade. Pretty sure I missed one or two mini dungeons too.
 
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