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[The Mango Sentinel]

What's there to discuss?

The only people mad about this are pedophiles and people who think that any editing is censorship. The first are scum while the second can hopefully be brought around to not be on the same side as the pedophiles.

Haha.

So what about the people like myself that don't give a shit either way. The old costumes don't offend me and neither do the new ones.

 

[RSLAEV]

Hm, might be a dealbreaker.

 

[freenudemacusers]

Could that outfit be made in real life?

I don't see why not

 

[BGBW]

Purpose, intent and above all always context. All ridiculous outfits are not created for the same reasons or with the same purposes.

Yes, but it's a bit weird to call for censorship for something being unrealistic considering this is a topic about videogames.

 

[Kaibutsu]

while the second can hopefully be brought around to not be on the same side as the pedophiles.

Hah. Wow, I just had a flashback to a Baptist church I used to go to when I was back in highschool when one of my friends came out that he was gay. "Don't worry, Robbie isn't really gay, he's just confused. We can bring him around to understanding that love only can exist between a man and a woman"

 

[Shahed]

What is sensible in a fantasy world? Hell, on a parallel universe earth people may not even wear clothes and putting on trunks or some earrings or something is grounds for arrest and stoning

You're right. In a fantasy world you can create your own rules which is advantage of the medium since they aren't tied down by more normal expectations. However if say everyone in the game was always nude, would as many people play it? I'd think not.

It's all well and good being fantastical (something I actually like!), but does it serve a purpose? I mean if all the characters were a bit more covered would that detract from the game? I'm looking forward to this and I suspect I'll really enjoy it. It's also something I expect my sister to really like but I know if those were default costumes she would never play the game. If such things were optional then it would satisfy those for and against such outfits.

As for what is sensible? It's not something easily clarified. A game that may have slightly similar art like Fire Emblem has designs that I'd say are more sensible. It doesn't mean outfits can't be revealing. Just do so in a more tactful manner

 

[Tohsaka]

They are misguided. Censorship is bad, but no artistic work not trying to be deliberately offensive to make a point will inevitably go through an editing process to try and see if anything might be offensive to people they're trying to show the art to.

Calling this censorship trivializes actual censorship.

If you think censorship is bad but support these changes, you're probably a hypocrite.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

What's there to discuss?

The only people mad about this are pedophiles and people who think that any editing is censorship. The first are scum while the second can hopefully be brought around to not be on the same side as the pedophiles.

Its really funny how you seem to be bothered by people using the word "censorship" incorrectly when you're grossly stretching the definition "pedophile".

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

I didn't expect this thread to have so many posts. GAF never ceases to amaze me.

Anything sexual makes GAF go crazy.

And then there's the people that love to throw the pedo card to everyone that disagrees with them.

 

[Yusaku]

You mean I can play this game and not feel like a gross pedophile? I'm okay with that.

 

[Slair]

What's there to discuss?

The only people mad about this are pedophiles and people who think that any editing is censorship. The first are scum while the second can hopefully be brought around to not be on the same side as the pedophiles.

Holy fucking wow! I can't tell if this is serious.

 

[Eusis]

...

Nintendo has done this for over 20 years. It's a cultural thing. Religious talk and sexual content will be removed for the western audience to avoid things that might be taken the wrong way by a different culture.

It's the Japanese who do the edits...not the westerners, they know their audience.

Well, the Japanese who mandate it anyway. And at this point it's mostly relegated to Nintendo's own works and even they tend to not care anywhere near as much as 20 years ago. Binding of Isaac seems to be the one exception but we don't know all the details there, the game had to be remade anyway because a flash game really wasn't going to work outside of x86 PCs anyway, at any rate it's not like they mandated new ages for Devil Survivor despite the ridiculous designs those games had so it seems mainly down to Nintendo as publisher or Square Enix as the IP owner, and maybe the ESRB threatening an M rather than just a harsher descriptor (or wanting to avoid said descriptor.)

I do think in general there's more sensitivity when dealing with foreign audiences than your own though, Fallout 3 had some of the nuke related stuff removed whereas we had Shin Megami Tensei straight up

Spoiler

drop a nuke on Tokyo about a fifth or so of the way through

, though there's the counterpoint that games are bigger now than they were in the past and as such a lot of stuff was pulled that wouldn't have been today.

 

[Nags]

What's there to discuss?

The only people mad about this are pedophiles and people who think that any editing is censorship. The first are scum while the second can hopefully be brought around to not be on the same side as the pedophiles.

So everyone in Japan is a pedophile? Square-Enix are pedophiles?

 

[Fandangox]

I don't see why not

That's what I meant!

I was saying comparing this outfits and Mortal Kombat fatalities as both being equally unrealistic and over the top was a bit of a stretch. Both are over the top, but the context and what can actually be achieved and deemed realistic in both of these scenarios are really different.

 

[PataHikari]

If you think censorship is bad but support these changes, you're probably a hypocrite.

THESE CHANGES ARE NOT CENSORSHIP.

No organization forced anybody to make the changes, no government banned the game, the people who made the game edited it themselves.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Why would they even bother changing their ages? They still look like teens.

 

[pancakesandsex]

That's certainly over the top. But is it unrealistic? Could that outfit be made in real life?

In the case of a mortal kombat fatality I am pretty sure if a real human explodes there wouldn't be tons of femurs and skulls blowing out of it.

Either way I am pretty indifferent about this change, from a design perspective I dislike both the left and right outfits. I think they both look dumb, although the Japanese black outfit one looks really ridiculous.

I explained my thoughts earlier in the thread, I just wanted to point out something equally silly. Go look at that ringabel costume if the belt skirt doesn't do it for you.

 

[AppleMIX]

I think you should actually read my post.

I said that there were also people who don't really know what censorship is and think any sort of editing of a piece of art is censorship. This isn't true, obviously, but some people think it is and are a bit misguided.

Editing for the sole purpose of not offending someone (in this case western audiences) is almost a textbook definition of censorship, whether done by the author or a outside authority. It not like this change was made because it would lead to a better story or more engaging gameplay, this was solely done because they didn't want to offend western audiences.

THESE CHANGES ARE NOT CENSORSHIP.

No organization forced anybody to make the changes, no government banned the game, the people who made the game edited it themselves.

I think you need to learn what censorship is.

 

[Owwari]

What's there to discuss?

The only people mad about this are pedophiles and people who think that any editing is censorship. The first are scum while the second can hopefully be brought around to not be on the same side as the pedophiles.

Woah there buddy, aren't you quite the character.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

If them being cartoons imagined in a fantasy world that barely resemble real humans divorces their design from any meaning then why did the designers come up with these skimpy, revealing outfits? Why did the designers bother to make them even look human, or look female, or look young? You can't have it both ways, either the game isn't representational and so the aesthetic design is meaningless or else the game is, on some level representational (

Spoiler

hint: it is

) and there is meaning associated with designs.

It is possible to find something attractive or even arousing in art, but not reality. Whether it's based around fantasy scenarios or concepts is irrelevant. It's why you can be a lolicon without being a pedophile.

 

[PataHikari]

Woah there buddy, aren't you quite the character.

You're the one who called someone "conservative" for not wanting to sexualize children.

 

[Sifl]

I don't like the art style of this game, but I honestly can't tell if the people calling other people pedophiles for being upset are serious. The characters look like short, pudgy blobs to me, they resemble scaled down humans that could be any age the creator of the game decided to make them. If you want to complain about a game, lets all throw our arms up at something like Hyperdimension Neptunia. This just seems so inoffensive to me because of how silly and shitty the style is.

 

[Coffee Dog]

THESE CHANGES ARE NOT CENSORSHIP.

No organization forced anybody to make the changes, no government banned the game, the people who made the game edited it themselves.

Semantics, it has the same outcome as censorship. You know full well what he means with that statement, so please stop correcting people like it actually means anything in the context of this discussion.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

A simple fact is that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Your moe blob avatar isn't helping your case, although I do agree that his statement was a bit extreme.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Your moe blob avatar isn't helping your case, although I do agree that his statement was a bit extreme.

This shit needs to stop, too.

 

[Fandangox]

I explained my thoughts earlier in the thread, I just wanted to point out something equally silly. Go look at that ringabel costume if the belt skirt doesn't do it for you.

I am still not sure whats what you are trying to say, you quoted my first post in this thread comparing it to the outfits when I was talking about something unrelated to that.

 

[PataHikari]

Semantics, it has the same outcome as censorship. You know full well what he means with that statement, so please stop correcting people like it actually means anything in the context of this discussion.

But it absolutely does.

These people are trivializing censorship by comparing this game to what, say, China does to its citizen's internet connections. They are saying that making a child character wear less skimpy clothing is comparable to entire websites not being accessible to countless people because their government doesn't like what those websites say.

 

[Coffee Dog]

You're the one who called someone "conservative" for not wanting to sexualize children.

Those 16 year old children are legal in a ton of places. It's not like they look like little girls with big tits, they look lile teens. So i think your point of "sexualising children" is a little too broad.

 

[BocoDragon]

This topic is really heating up. Delicious. I can't wait till the blogs weigh in on this. Someone's planning a 45 minute YouTube deconstruction on this as we speak.

 

[Gestault]

Editing for the sole purpose of not offending someone (in this case western audiences) is almost a textbook definition of censorship, weather done by the author them self or a outside authority.

Not that I agree with some of his more...enthusiastic points here, but you simply don't understand the meaning of the word "censor," and what actual "censorship" is, based on what you've written.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

So everyone in Japan is a pedophile? Square-Enix are pedophiles?

There is a fairly large niche in Japan who openly fawn over sexualized imagery of characters who look like children to most people. For whatever reason, these people are often pandered to in anime and video games in recent years.

 

[The Technomancer]

It is possible to find something attractive or even arousing in art, but not reality. Whether it's based around fantasy scenarios or concepts is irrelevant. It's why you can be a lolicon without being a pedophile.

I don't necessarily disagree, but my original point was mostly aimed at the standard "lol its just like, a piece of fantasy art man, how can you find anything disturbing about it, its all fake?", usually from people who do find the artwork compelling in other ways ("its cute", "its arousing", whatever). If its possible to have any emotional reaction to a piece of fantastical art because of its content then "disturbed" or "offput" can certainly be one of them. The problem is certainly not just that one group is "incapable of separating fantasy from reality"

 

[diaspora]

But it absolutely does.

These people are trivializing censorship by comparing this game to what, say, China does to its citizen's internet connections. They are saying that making a child character wear less skimpy clothing is comparable to entire websites not being accessible to countless people because their government doesn't like what those websites say.

They're equating a private company changing clothing designs for their game characters to governments banning sites from being accessible to their citizens.

Editing for the sole purpose of not offending someone (in this case western audiences) is almost a textbook definition of censorship, whether done by the author or a outside authority. It not like this change was made because it would lead to a better story or more engaging gameplay, this was solely done because they didn't want to offend western audiences.

A company changing, improving outfit designs to sell to wider audience is not censorship, no. It'd as much censorship as changing the designs to make them skimpier. Would you then say that Square is trying to censor shortshorts?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This shit needs to stop, too.

Yes. I agree that moe blob style need to stop. It needed to stop before it started.

 

[Eusis]

But it absolutely does.

These people are trivializing censorship by comparing this game to what, say, China does to its citizen's internet connections. They are saying that making a child character wear less skimpy clothing is comparable to entire websites not being accessible to countless people because their government doesn't like what those websites say.

We're not talking about abusing the word rape here, and censorship has long LONG been used to describe any change like this, especially as it'd be the same as what the likes of the FCC would've likely demanded anyway.

And as I've been saying it's very possible, almost surely actually, pressure one way or the other from the ESRB. Submitted it to see what it'd get then toned it down, or just playing it safe in the first place to avoid a rating higher than they'd want, they DO rate DoA M afterall so the risk was there.

 

[pancakesandsex]

I am still not sure whats what you are trying to say, you quoted my first post in this thread comparing it to the outfits when I was talking about something unrelated to that.

Meh, nevermind.

 

[Owwari]

You're the one who called someone "conservative" for not wanting to sexualize children.

Hahaha dude you're gold, please don't change.

 

[Gbraga]

That seems a little extreme.

I'm ok with the outfits, but why both change their ages and remove the sexual dialogue? Wouldn't one or the other be enough?

 

[Roubjon]

I guess when it comes to stuff like this I have a hard time believing how someone can not perceive things that way. I mean, its pretty clear: with the unchanged version the developers are very deliberately displaying a very skimpily dressed fifteen year old female character. When people go "eww no I would never think that there was anything less then pure about this teen character wearing less clothing then most strippers, why do you even think that?" it seems almost willfully obtuse to me

its about as straightforward as a potato sack to me

I guess it's just me not seeing them as 15 year old characters. Like, age isn't even a consideration. It's just a cute drawing. I see them as characters in a cute artstyle that are occasionally dressed up in lingerie. Other view them as toddlers. Never once while playing do I look at those models and see a real 15 year old girl. I mean, look at the character poroportions. Their thighs are massive, their feet are tiny, and their heads are huge. So maybe once in a while I'll see that 3D rendered thigh and think of thighs or something, but I don't think "Oh look at that 15 year old thigh." The idea of thinking that way grosses me the fuck out.

 

[hongcha]

I predicted this would happen long before a localisation was announced. The original JP version had a lot of sexual content, both in dialogue and visually, which I thought they would tone down, modify, or delete if the game were to be localised. Sure enough.

 

[Trent Strong]

Those characters are so ugly and freakish looking. I can't believe that these are the kinds of games that make so many gaffers claim that the 3DS is better than the Vita.

 

[krizzx]

This bothers me. It bothers me very much.

This type of censorship disgusts me.

That did the same thing to Arc Rise Fantasia, and it turned me off of the game.

 

[joe2187]

This is getting out of hand.

The game has a charming cute art style and all of sudden...

OMG PEDOPHILES EVERYWHERE!!!

...

I dont see the connection. Been playing the Demo and I cant wait for this game, all this is fucking trivial.

 

[Clov]

Yes. I agree that moe blob style need to stop. It needed to stop before it started.

Or, you know, judging people by their avatars. That also would be something pretty nice to stop doing.

 

[The12thGripper]

I was thinking it was going to be just as bad as FE:A's censorship; but I'm ok with the new costumes.

 

[Fandangox]

Meh, nevermind.

I am curious now :c

 

[Coffee Dog]

Those characters are so ugly and freakish looking. I can't believe that these are the kinds of games that make so many gaffers claim that the 3DS is better than the Vita.

Hahaha

Good one

 

[Slair]

THESE CHANGES ARE NOT CENSORSHIP.

No organization forced anybody to make the changes, no government banned the game, the people who made the game edited it themselves.

Technically it's self-censorship.

 

[jon bones]

the new ones look way better.

the originals are creepy.

this is more localization than censorship... americans aren't into that.

regardless, whenever i pick up a 3ds i'll also pick this up. looks like the job system of FFV and the art direction of FFIX. sounds awesome.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I don't see how anyone can argue this is a bad move. What are you missing? Nothing of importance.