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[sankt-Antonio]

Deformed and Super Deformed are technical art terms and can be used it ways that are not childish/cute.

But that is somewhat what i was going for, it's a super broad term and it completely shuts the child aspect of this whole conversation out.

"It's not a child version of some women! Look at the the cover art, she is clearly a grown up women, it's just the deformed art style that throws you off"

...

But it's not like i understand to much about anime. :/

 

[Elaugaufein]

Except we do have rules to follow, otherwise games get banned. Nintendo have already been hit with one game for their system banned from sale due to child pornography concerns. The industry as a whole does not need any more of this shit.

Also, stop trying to defend it all by proclaiming it as "just an artstyle". It's 15 year old minors, dressed in thongs, being sexually suggestive. Nintendo absolutely did the right thing by self-censoring. This just isn't acceptable in the west and quite honestly, I'm shocked when (apparently) grown men in this thread think otherwise.

That game (DOAD) was reclassified and is currently for sale here with an M rating (which is unrestricted but not recommended for those below 15 years) so I think we can safely say it's not classified as child porn.

If you want to make an argument about child porn on that front you'd have been better of picking Atelier Totori (Plus) who's vita release got hit with an R18+ here, though people may not take you very seriously considering that Australia is the only country to give it this rating and has released as M games with considerably less tame content and released a remake of the sequel as an MA15+ .

Oh and those character's were increased in age by 3 years (which creates some weird inconsistencies in the relative ages of other characters) for the Western release (because weirdly enough collections of pixel's don't actually have ages) but this is hardly anything new for Western releases. And this despite the fact that prime time soap opera's often imply quiet blatantly that character's under the age of 18 are having sex.

 

[puzl]

People have thus rightfully pointed out that it's odd that they didn't just leave it at that but also felt they needed to changed some outfits (including scrapping a male one) seeing as the characters are now adults.

Again, many EU laws, including Sweden, Denmark, Norway and the UK prevent the sale of any media which depicts child-like images in a sexualised content. In this case, because of the terrible, terrible, terrible artstyle, even the "adults" look like 5 year old children. If you show this game to your average person of the street, they would believe they were playing a game with children in it. In thongs. Nintendo rightly doesn't want to be associated with this, which is why they took the step to self-censor.

As was mentioned previously, government censoring and private business self-censoring are two very different things. Nintendo wants to sell more copies of the game and doesn't want negative associations with their family-centric brand name. It makes perfect sense.

Sorry loli lovers, you'll have to get your filthy creep on elsewhere.

 

[LouisaFerre]

I'm less bothered by the changes themselves and more bothered by things having to be toned down here.

Anyway, I don't see the reason for people to get so upset about these depictions. They're drawings and yes, they are sexualized, but they aren't real people. While it may make some, even me a bit uncomfortable to see sexualization in general in media some of the time, that doesn't make it somehow more abhorrent or harmful than other themes used solely for entertainment value in any realm outside of my own opinion. Whether other people enjoy or defend them means nothing to me, and I'm not going to start acting like it's somehow inherently wrong for people to defend or even ask for this. This is from a purely moral perspective of course, since there may be legal reasons in areas that come into play.

I guess I just don't see why people get so worked up over what other people happen to enjoy.

Spoiler

Also I find it laughable that some people want stuff like this to stop existing because they think games need to have some intellectual revolution to be taken seriously. I don't remember that kind of shit happening in any other medium.

 

[zoukka]

5 foot is short and petite. Not 3 foot. She's not short and petite. She's been designed to look more like a little girl.

Built like an adult(or at least teen and much better looking from a character perspective):


Compared to...


She's clearly meant to be older that she looks in-game but they kiddied her up in weird ways which isn't a bad thing, until you put her in a thong and bra.

It's the same process that was used in multitude of games on the sprite-era. See FFVI for example. The gameplay models are simplified and deformed to be more readable and clear on the screen. Of course it's also a stylistic decision that allows the game world to be more deformed and stylized as well while not clashing with the character models.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Sorry loli lovers, you'll have to get your filthy creep on elsewhere.

Sounds like you're more interested in being inflammatory and getting your point across is an afterthought.

 

[Neon_Icarus]

Personally I'd much prefer the game without the weird "cut out" costumes. Why does Agnes need to show so much flesh in, for example, the white mage outfit?

That said, considering how the characters act in the game I find it impossible to think of them as kids, or "toddlers" lol. In fact, I'd say their new ages are a lot more fitting to them. IMO cartoon characters are meant to be looked as whole, unless they exist only as illustrations.

There is a lot of offensive material out there, and a small portion of the anime/manga subculture is unhealthy (to say the least). But I think some people here are a little too enthusiastic to apply labels and make oversimplifications, perhaps fuelled by the anti-Japanese sentiment that has been growing in the Western gaming media lately.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Again, many EU laws, including Sweden, Denmark, Norway and the UK prevent the sale of any media which depicts child-like images in a sexualised content. In this case, because of the terrible, terrible, terrible artstyle, even the "adults" look like 5 year old children. If you show this game to your average person of the street, they would believe they were playing a game with children in it. In thongs. Nintendo rightly doesn't want to be associated with this, which is why they took the step to self-censor.

As was mentioned previously, government censoring and private business self-censoring are two very different things. Nintendo wants to sell more copies of the game and doesn't want negative associations with their family-centric brand name. It makes perfect sense.

Sorry loli lovers, you'll have to get your filthy creep on elsewhere.

This post is self-contradictory. You start with talking about government regulation (ie government censorship) and then you move on to saying that because a company self censored preemptively that it's clearly not government censorship.

 

[puzl]

Sounds like you're more interested in being inflammatory and getting your point across is an afterthought.

Sounds like you need to re-read my posts. I've given plenty of reasons why Nintendo needed to do what they did. It's not my fault you're cherry picking what you want to read from it.

 

[EXPotemkin]

I just think it's hilarious that the pro-censorship side is so bent out of shape. In the end, I don't think people should be mad about the changes.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Sounds like you need to re-read my posts. I've given plenty of reasons why Nintendo needed to do what they did. It's not my fault you're cherry picking what you want to read from it.

I've read it all and I agree that it makes logical sense (I'm still indifferent to it since I don't think the censorship has actually changed much). I still think you're out to piss people off first and argue second.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Personally I'd much prefer the game without the weird "cut out" costumes. Why does Agnes need to show so much flesh in, for example, the white mage outfit?

That said, considering how the characters act in the game I find it impossible to think of them as kids, or "toddlers" lol. In fact, I'd say their new ages are a lot more fitting to them. IMO cartoon characters are meant to be looked as whole, unless they exist only as illustrations.

There is a lot of offensive material out there, and a small portion of the anime/manga subculture is unhealthy (to say the least). But I think some people here are a little too enthusiastic to apply labels and make oversimplifications, perhaps fuelled by the anti-Japanese sentiment that has been growing in the Western gaming media lately.

The reason the White Mage costume is so revealing is that the costume for the gender matching the Asterisk bearer is based on the Asterisk Bearer's costume and Holly White (who holds the White Mage asterisk) has a pretty stereotypical Sadistic Sexuality for a female villain going on (which is in contrast to her class).

The Bravo Bikini is supposed to be edgy too, it's a bit weird hearing in-game dialogue about how edgy it is and then looking at the western version which covers considerably more than the average bikini.

Why the female vampire class looks like it does is utterly beyond me though considering it's asterisk bearer is a fully dressed male in formal wear (but maybe you can blame Anne Rice for that one?).

 

[SA Louisgod]

Also, stop trying to defend it all by proclaiming it as "just an artstyle". It's 15 year old minors, dressed in thongs, being sexually suggestive. Nintendo absolutely did the right thing by self-censoring. This just isn't acceptable in the west and quite honestly, I'm shocked when (apparently) grown men in this thread think otherwise.

You're giving them way too much credit by calling them grown up men. Also like how the vast majority of the people defending the art style have anime avatars. Makes you think..

 

[puzl]

This post is self-contradictory. You start with talking about government regulation (ie government censorship) and then you move on to saying that because a company self censored preemptively that it's clearly not government censorship.

Sigh.

Government laws are not exclusively the same as government censorship. Nintendo edited their game so that it wouldn't be blocked from sale in certain EU countries, due to laws in place preventing certain kinds of activity (namely sexual activity involving children) from being sold.

Do you think that governments deeming murder illegal is a form of censorship too, blocking my creative right to be able to kill anyone I want? Get real.

 

[puzl]

You're giving them way too much credit by calling them grown up men. Also like how the vast majority of the people defending the art style have anime avatars. Makes you think..

I noticed that too. You can't expect a level, un-biased argument on this subject from someone with a cartoon child as their avatar.

 

[akaoni]

Again, many EU laws, including Sweden, Denmark, Norway and the UK prevent the sale of any media which depicts child-like images in a sexualised content. In this case, because of the terrible, terrible, terrible artstyle, even the "adults" look like 5 year old children. If you show this game to your average person of the street, they would believe they were playing a game with children in it. In thongs. Nintendo rightly doesn't want to be associated with this, which is why they took the step to self-censor.

As was mentioned previously, government censoring and private business self-censoring are two very different things. Nintendo wants to sell more copies of the game and doesn't want negative associations with their family-centric brand name. It makes perfect sense.

Sorry loli lovers, you'll have to get your filthy creep on elsewhere.

I'm going to be deliberately cruel and ask for sources. Thanks.

 

[Sputtid]

I understand those finding these costumes tasteless. But calling them an universal act of pedophilia simply lacks ground in more than one way.

From an arctistic point of view: If you just look at them, they are stilized human beings. It's really in the eye of the beholder whether they are considered under 18 or above 18. You can't call out anyone on such a subjective basis.

Then there is the problem of drawing the line between pornographic and non-pornographic content. Both from a legal and ethical standpoint. I believe people in bikini, or revealig costumes isn't pornography. And in western society it is not really pornography legally speaking either. You might have a different oppinion, but once again too shaky ground to condemn the art on.

And when the content is not legally pornographic it comes down to cultural preferences and regional differences in law whether it's appropriate or not. Looking at the legal side of things; take my country for example: the age of consent is 14, thus even though pornographic content of people under 18 is strictly prohibited, you are free to be sexually attracted to people above 14 (though therein also lies the problem of differences between what's morally and what's legally right). So in this case, even if you believe the original Japanese ages are the "real" ages of these characters - the ease, with they could change them in the translation process proves in itself how arbitrary they are - you can't call anyone from this country a pedophile IF they are aroused by these pixels thus you can't call the content inappropriate in any objective way.

To sum up: IF you believe these characters look child-like, IF you think they are actually underaged, IF you believe people in cleavage is bordering pornography, IF art like this is morally/legally wrong in your region only then you could tag it as inappropriate. However, this oppinion can't be universally "right" on such shaky grounds. And most certainly forms no basis to call people enjoying the content pedophiles.

(This whole wall of text only stands if we don't narrow down the discussion to the NA version of the game. The same changes are present in the EU version as well, so I felt it can't be left out from the debate.)

 

[trixx]

Main reason why i'm for the censoring is because i don't understand why these characters are wearing a bikini, short skirt etc.. to battle even with the guy characters. It just seems ridiculous when considering the context

 

[puzl]

I'm going to be deliberately cruel and ask for sources. Thanks.

I already did in a previous post.

 

[LouisaFerre]

You're giving them way too much credit by calling them grown up men. Also like how the vast majority of the people defending the art style have anime avatars. Makes you think..

I noticed that too. You can't expect a level, un-biased argument on this subject from someone with a cartoon child as their avatar.

It strikes me as incredibly immature to dismiss others as being inferior people because of some porn drawings you don't like.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Sounds like you need to re-read my posts. I've given plenty of reasons why Nintendo needed to do what they did. It's not my fault you're cherry picking what you want to read from it.

The problem with this is that I've got a decent collection of JRPGs that are pretty innuendo laced and that haven't been hit with anything worse than an M (including Ar Tonelico Qoga, which may be one of the most blatantly sexual non-porn games to come out of Japan, and who's worst Western world rating was an M in the US). So the idea that Nintendo "needed" to is wildly misplaced.

Whether or not they should have is another question. And one of the inevitable things is that if you're going to get Social Justice movements trying to censor/eradicate the existence of things like Dragon's Crown , you can certainly expect push back from people who think that's a dangerous path to walk.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

I noticed that too. You can't expect a level, un-biased argument on this subject from someone with a cartoon child as their avatar.

So I was right.

 

[Kinyou]

I noticed that too. You can't expect a level, un-biased argument on this subject from someone with a cartoon child as their avatar.

Doesn't an assumption like that make yourself biased?

 

[Glass Rebel]

I think this thread would be less painful to read if the people arguing that Bravely Default is a game for pedophiles would have at least played the part where the bravo bikini appears. It's just weird that the most insulting posts come from people who clearly haven't played the game and are judging it by the pictures outside of any context.

You're giving them way too much credit by calling them grown up men. Also like how the vast majority of the people defending the art style have anime avatars. Makes you think..

I noticed that too. You can't expect a level, un-biased argument on this subject from someone with a cartoon child as their avatar.

I hope you guys notice that comments like these are making you look much dumber than the people you're arguing against, right?

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Main reason why i'm for the censoring is because i don't understand why these characters are wearing a bikini, short skirt etc.. to battle even with the guy characters. It just seems ridiculous when considering the context

The censored versions still look incredibly impractical for combat.

 

[akaoni]

I already did in a previous post.

You think this is adequate for your sweeping statement just now?

Just trolling like a madman.

 

[Prophane33]

That's a shame. Between the micro-transactions and the censorship, I won't be touching this one.

 

[puzl]

It's really in the eye of the beholder whether they are considered under 18 or above 18. You can't call out anyone on such a subjective basis.

I can't say I've seen any 18 year olds+ look like this before:

 

[Elaugaufein]

Sigh.

Government laws are not exclusively the same as government censorship. Nintendo edited their game so that it wouldn't be blocked from sale in certain EU countries, due to laws in place preventing certain kinds of activity (namely sexual activity involving children) from being sold.

Do you think that governments deeming murder illegal is a form of censorship too, blocking my creative right to be able to kill anyone I want? Get real.

If the government bans movie that refer to murder or depict fictional murder, then yes that is censorship. I'm pretty sure that Hollywood and the existence of the Comics Code Authority already answered that question pretty clearly.

 

[puzl]

You think this is adequate for your sweeping statement just now?

What? It specifically states that the game was banned due to Swedish law, along with a host of other EU countries. What else do you need? An exact dictation of the word-for-word law in question? If you're genuinely interested on the subject, try googling it.

 

[Kinyou]

I can't say I've seen any 18 year olds+ look like this before:

But you have seen any minors who look like that?

The characters have both, adult and child features

 

[akaoni]

What? It specifically states that the game was banned due to Swedish law, along with a host of other EU countries. What else do you need? An exact dictation of the word-for-word law in question? If you're genuinely interested on the subject, try googling it.

I am interested, and informed. Which is why I'm asking you to source it. I know you're incorrect.

 

[Sputtid]

I can't say I've seen any 18 year olds+ look like this before:

No wonder, these are highly stilized drawings.

 

[trixx]

The censored versions still look incredibly impractical for combat.

Definitely. Doesn't make any sense, but still more plausible than the originals.

 

[HolyBaikal]

This thread has become extremely insulting and I wish this wasn't allowed.

It was bad when I first discovered this thread, but things are only getting worse.
I'm disappointed at how intolerant and rude people are.

And I'm saddened at the insistence of many people to look down upon others who didn't do anything wrong. This isn't okay.

 

[puzl]

It strikes me as incredibly immature to dismiss others as being inferior people because of some porn drawings you don't like.

Not once did I use the word inferior to describe people with anime avatars. I'm just saying that on a subject as heated as this, it's unlikely you're going to get an unbiased, reasoned argument from someone who is obviously a fan of the subject in question.

I've seen plenty of animes, read loads of manga and played more JRPGs than I can count. It doesn't mean I can't find the subject of this thread utterly disgraceful.

 

[Neon_Icarus]

The reason the White Mage costume is so revealing is that the costume for the gender matching the Asterisk bearer is based on the Asterisk Bearer's costume and Holly White (who holds the White Mage asterisk) has a pretty stereotypical Sadistic Sexuality for a female villain going on (which is in contrast to her class).

The Bravo Bikini is supposed to be edgy too, it's a bit weird hearing in-game dialogue about how edgy it is and then looking at the western version which covers considerably more than the average bikini.

Why the female vampire class looks like it does is utterly beyond me though considering it's asterisk bearer is a fully dressed male in formal wear (but maybe you can blame Anne Rice for that one?).

Well, ok. That makes more sense. A little bit.

 

[Interceptor]

She is 18 years old. She may not look like it, but the artist imagined her in in that way. Nothing wrong with looking cute eh?

Spoiler

Please don´t take this too seriously..

 

[puzl]

I am interested, and informed. Which is why I'm asking you to source it. I know you're incorrect.

So prove otherwise. The onus is on you, since you're the one so adamant that I'm wrong, despite the game actually being banned for the reasons and laws I specified. Knock yourself out

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

It's a problem because it panders to a mindset that is pretty far from healthy.

I have a 7 year old daughter, and I wouldn't leave her alone with anyone who would play a game featuring these characters. Straight talk.

Come on. Be fair. I'd be alright with someone who merely played a game with this art style. It still may or may not be a good game. I'd be suspect of anyone who throws a hissy fit over the changes, though.

 

[blu]

It's a problem because it panders to a mindset that is pretty far from healthy.

I have a 7 year old daughter, and I wouldn't leave her alone with anyone who would play a game featuring these characters. Straight talk.

I'm a father of two girls (one at your daughter's age), and I have dialed in dozens of hours in BD so far. I have no issues with my mindset, at least not when it comes to chibi bikini-clad video-game characters. That said, my current BD party is wearing their default clothes, just because I like them better, artistically.

 

[Ironjam]

Except we do have rules to follow, otherwise games get banned. Nintendo have already been hit with one game for their system banned from sale due to child pornography concerns. The industry as a whole does not need any more of this shit.

Also, stop trying to defend it all by proclaiming it as "just an artstyle". It's 15 year old minors, dressed in thongs, being sexually suggestive. Nintendo absolutely did the right thing by self-censoring. This just isn't acceptable in the west and quite honestly, I'm shocked when (apparently) grown men in this thread think otherwise.

Im sorry but you are overexaggerating. For one they arent 15 to attract pedos, they are 15 because thats what japanese consider the golden years of youth, hence most manga/anime/video game feautures teens as protagonists.
There is not a single event in the game where the characters are trying to be suggestive on the contrary out of 4 characters, only one is even close to that description and he is 18.
All those outfits on the last page arent in the game and while the bikini is, its totally optional.
Ive been playing jrpgs for a while and i look at the artstyle the same way as sprites from 2D jrpgs or characters from, lets say, FFIX.
I kinda get where you are coming seeing only those pictures, but the whole game isnt even close that and writing it off as a game for pedos is ignorant.

EU and NA gets the censored version anyways, so its a totally pointless debate imo.

 

[puzl]

I think this thread would be less painful to read if the people arguing that Bravely Default is a game for pedophiles would have at least played the part where the bravo bikini appears. It's just weird that the most insulting posts come from people who clearly haven't played the game and are judging it by the pictures outside of any context.





I hope you guys notice that comments like these are making you look much dumber than the people you're arguing against, right?

I hope you also realise that you're completely ignoring all the valid points I made in previous posts. Again, cherry picking at it's finest

 

[Elaugaufein]

I can't say I've seen any 18 year olds+ look like this before:

Braev is in his 40's and has one of the most epic full face beards you will ever see, and yet his battle avatar has child like proportions (his head is dramatically oversized for an adult), and it's not a limitation of the art style because Master Kaziiumi, who is the same age actually looks pretty realistic. The art style is pretty inconsistent that way. Though it may be that Braev is a passionate sort of fellow so the larger head is necessary to convey his emotion through his giant bear, whereas Kaziiumi is a Stoic Swordsman, so expressing his emotion is unnecessary.

I admit to having no idea what's up with that costume either though, considering that Agnes doesn't look anywhere near that flat in her default costume.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Main reason why i'm for the censoring is because i don't understand why these characters are wearing a bikini, short skirt etc.. to battle even with the guy characters. It just seems ridiculous when considering the context

The bikini is a story-related costume and isn't actually supposed to be something worn in battle. It makes sense in the context of the game. I can elaborate if you want (to get spoiled).

 

[Jarmel]

Not once did I use the word inferior to describe people with anime avatars. I'm just saying that on a subject as heated as this, it's unlikely you're going to get an unbiased, reasoned argument from someone who is obviously a fan of the subject in question.

I've seen plenty of animes, read loads of manga and played more JRPGs than I can count. It doesn't mean I can't find the subject of this thread utterly disgraceful.

Oh my fucking god.

 

[Glass Rebel]

I hope you also realise that you're completely ignoring all the valid points I made in previous posts. Again, cherry picking at it's finest

I'm not cherry picking anything, I'm quoting a post of yours as is and pointing out that it's insulting and uncalled for.

 

[puzl]

Im sorry but you are overexaggerating. For one they arent 15 to attract pedos, they are 15 because thats what japanese consider the golden years of youth, hence most manga/anime/video game feautures teens as protagonists.

EU and NA gets the censored version anyways, so its a totally pointless debate imo.

Sure, that is fine if that's what the Japanese culture deems acceptable. The west doesn't however, which is why I said that the self-censorship on Nintendos part to appeal to more people in the western demographic (and avoid getting into trouble with the law) is a good thing. Surely people would prefer to actually want the game to be able to be sold on these shores, rather than have it banned from sale entirely?

 

[BGBW]

In this case, because of the terrible, terrible, terrible artstyle, even the "adults" look like 5 year old children.

See this is why this topic is going to go round in circles because some see the characters as toddlers whereas others simply see chibi older teenagers/adults. I guess it comes down to how one would personally caricature a toddler. For me the BD bodies are far too long in proportion to the head to be see as a young child's body. For example compare the bodies of the humans in the old Animal Crossing games with those of New Leaf; while the heads are the same size New Leaf gives them much longer bodies so instantly they look older despite the fact we can safely assume they depict characters of the same age.

 

[LouisaFerre]

Not once did I use the word inferior to describe people with anime avatars. I'm just saying that on a subject as heated as this, it's unlikely you're going to get an unbiased, reasoned argument from someone who is obviously a fan of the subject in question.

I've seen plenty of animes, read loads of manga and played more JRPGs than I can count. It doesn't mean I can't find the subject of this thread utterly disgraceful.

What's funny is that you say you can't expect an unbiased argument from, but your post didn't actually do anything other than just poke fun at people who enjoy it, effectively dismissing them as not being worth listening to. That seems a little biased to me. What bothers me is that you seem to try and come off as the neutral and fair party even though you seem to be reliant on defending your own opinion and emotional response as being inherently just or right.