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[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

It's no different from sexualising a character to make them more appealing to an audience. Companies aren't doing this to protect or project their view points onto the public (which is generally the point of censorship), they do this to make a more saleable item that won't bring them bad PR.

To simply call it censorship with all it's negative connotations is a tad disingenuous. This is a product they want to sell. It order to make it sell better or at least not bring them negative PR they alter it. It happens all the time on multiple levels with marketing and product design in general.

This.


It's creeper art in Japan for profit incentive.

It's non creeper art in the US for profit incentive.

 

[Jarmel]

Alright lets get some stuff straight.

1.The characters aren't real-
Guess what? These characters don't exist in real life. So whatever their supposed age is, which can change because they're not real, it doesn't matter. Just like with 1000 year old vampires in the bodies of a 12 year old, the number on the paper doesn't matter because at the end of the day, it's just a number on a paper. Them being aged up from 15 to 18 doesn't matter because they don't exist. You know what that also means? People saying that other posters liking the original designs are pedophiles, are idiots. Seriously just turn off your computer and stop posting. Just stop and think about what you're typing or just don't post at all. The characters don't have a set age as they're not real. It's not like in real life where people have an objective age that can't be changed at the whim of a writer. The numbers clearly don't matter in this case so why should you? Nothing changes if the character was 15, 18, 20, or 25. So stop getting all indignant and saying that because the fictional character is 15, they shouldn't be sexualized. They don't exist.

2.It's a mixture of the artstyle chibi and Yoshida's artstyle-

Guess what? They're not sexualizing toddlers but rather, intentionally deformed chibi versions of Yoshida's artwork. Toddlers =/ chibi. Also go back to point 1 in that the characters don't exist and can be whatever age the writers want them to be. Nobody is jerking off to a bunch of pixelated chibi representations of Yoshida's art. The developers are having a bit of fun with the costumes and the game in generally is a bit sexualized. If all you see is toddlers then you need to look at more artstyles. Also if it's embarrassing for you to be playing this game in public, then that's your personal problem that you need to get over.

3.Whatever your opinion of the costume changes, changing of the dialogue to alter tone is unacceptable-

Obviously there will be some changes due to translation work but if they're intentionally trying to tone down innuendo then that is unacceptable. It's demeaning to the audience and it's something that we should be past at this point.

4.Who gives a fuck about the proper definition of censorship?

What people are referring to in this thread is the higherups at Nintendo or SE forcing changes on a work that would not have been done otherwise. Stop making this into a semantics debate and look at the actual issues being discussed.

 

[Glass Rebel]

I think you are diverting here, I'm not talking about the story, I'm talking about what appears to be skimpy looking outfits on child-like characters. The game said they were 15 (even though they look much younger...)

If the age has no bearing on the game at all then nobody should care that this is part of the "censorship".

Nah, I'm just not sure what you're saying. Most of the discussion in this thread has revolved around the outfits and the dialogue that was allegedly toned down (and nobody has bothered to confirm, of course).

If it's relevant to the story i can't really say i'm for the censorship then. At the same time it doesn't really bother me, but i could see why some would't want the censorship.

The censored version just makes the "point" of the Florem arc less blatant than the original but it's still intact.

 

[YianGaruga]

Can't the changes to BD simply seen not as censorship but as a JP -> West localization as it has been done hundreds of times before for whatever reason?

For some reson Japan seems obsessed/generally accepting of young looking characters in a sexual context and the west is less so, as can be seen from this thread.

Maybe that's one of the things fans have to accept if they want to play these games at all, either learn Japanese or accept the changes for the localization. It doesn't change the game at all, so calling it censorship is abolutely ridiculous.

 

[Elaugaufein]

It's no different from sexualising a character to make them more appealing to an audience. Companies aren't doing this to protect or project their view points onto the public (which is generally the point of censorship), they do this to make a more saleable item that won't bring them bad PR.

To simply call it censorship with all it's negative connotations is a tad disingenuous. This is a product they want to sell. It order to make it sell better or at least not bring them negative PR they alter it. It happens all the time on multiple levels with marketing and product design in general.

So that whole kafuffle about the art style in Dragon's Crown didn't exist then ? Or is it okay to voice that you don't like certain art style choices and want them (un)changed only when it's in a particular direction ? Because if that movement had succeeded, I'd still call that censorship. There's nothing inherently any more (or less) noble in forcing someone else to censor themselves through mob rule than any other method (and historically censorship that has arisen from social pressure wielded by religious institutions and "Moral Majorities" has been at least as effective as government censorship, if it doesn't directly result in government censorship).

 

[The Technomancer]

Alright lets get some stuff straight.

1.The characters aren't real-
Guess what? These characters don't exist in real life. So whatever their supposed age is, which can change because they're not real, it doesn't matter. Just like with 1000 year old vampires in the bodies of a 12 year old, the number on the paper doesn't matter because at the end of the day, it's just a number on a paper. Them being aged up from 15 to 18 doesn't matter because they don't exist. You know what that also means? People saying that other posters liking the original designs are pedophiles, are idiots. Seriously just turn off your computer and stop posting. Just stop and think about what you're typing or just don't post at all. The characters don't have a set age as they're not real. It's not like in real life where people have an objective age that can't be changed at the whim of a writer. The numbers clearly don't matter in this case so why should you? Nothing changes if the character was 15, 18, 20, or 25. So stop getting all indignant and saying that because the fictional character is 15, they shouldn't be sexualized. They don't exist.

The developers cared enough about their fictional age to specify it. If they cared, why shouldn't we?

 

[Jarmel]

The developers cared enough about their fictional age to specify it. If they cared, why shouldn't we?

They also modified it. It's not a big deal. They're supposed to be older teenagers/young adults. The point isn't so much about whether they're 15 or 18 but where they are in life.

 

[Ironjam]

If it's relevant to the story i can't really say i'm for the censorship then. At the same time it doesn't really bother me, but i could see why some would't want the censorship.

In the story its supposed to be the most extreme/revealing clothing they can find, but it covers more skin than a normal bikini when you get to actually wear it. I was pretty confused at first as to why it was considered so revealing, then i saw its censored

 

[BGBW]

Can't the changes to BD simply seen not as censorship but as a JP -> West localization as it has been done hundreds of times before for whatever reason?

Why would cutting out a male costume rather than giving it a similar treatment to the costumes shown in the OP be considered localisation? Sure it may out be strictly censorship (so we don't start another definition debate), but it certainly isn't just localisation either. Changing the ages because western attitude see 18yos as responsible enough to go on a quest rather than 15yos is just localisation. Not being able to translate certain puns because it really doesn't work in any other language than Japanese is just localisation. But really, cutting content for no reason should not be excused as just localisation.

 

[Elaugaufein]

The developers cared enough about their fictional age to specify it. If they cared, why shouldn't we?

They frequently specify their blood type too. They do this because it helps to convey the impression of a complete character (their are personalty archetypes associated with blood types in Japan, which characters may adhere to or subvert). It's like those short descriptions given about Link in the Legend of Zelda or other NES games, which then went on to never be mentioned again in the game, except to create the impression that a given character is fully realized.

 

[Principate]

So that whole kafuffle about the art style in Dragon's Crown didn't exist then ? Or is it okay to voice that you don't like certain art style choices and want them (un)changed only when it's in a particular direction ? Because if that movement had succeeded, I'd still call that censorship. There's nothing inherently any more (or less) noble in forcing someone else to censor themselves through mob rule than any other method (and historically censorship that has arisen from social pressure wielded by religious institutions and "Moral Majorities" has been at least as effective as government censorship, if it doesn't directly result in government censorship).

As you noticed Dragons crown got released just fine. As long as the amount of people willing to buy something outweighs those that would be off put and it's not illegal companies will tend to do it anyway. Your talking about the majority vs the minority rather than simply censorship, unless an outside factor (e.g the government) steps in.

You example refers to everything. Microsofts DRM was removed due to public outcry by your definition and outcry that is censorship. it's simply how the world works. If the majority don't like something or a persuaded not to like something, quite often something will happen. In a democratic and profit driven world it's simply a fact of life in many scenario.

You have less power if you are in the minority. You will not be able to achieve and have certain things. Is a fact of life in a democratic world and a free market.

In Japan the majority are ok with this stuff so company's are ok with selling it. In the west the majority are not ok, companies can still sell it but it may not sell as much so they alter it.

 

[The Technomancer]

They also modified it. It's not a big deal. They're supposed to be older teenagers/young adults. The point isn't so much about whether they're 15 or 18 but where they are in life.

My point is that the whole "its just a fictional depiction, they're not real, how can you get upset about it" (and its not just you, this keeps coming up)
a.)then precludes anyone from having any emotional response to a fictional depiction (I don't buy that "I'm bothered by this" is somehow a special class of reaction)
and
b.) seems dismissive of the effort that the devs did put in. If the character's age doesn't matter then why would they specify it? More importantly, if its impossible for a character to be "sexualized" because they're fake then why would they put effort into designing costumes that evoke ideas of sexiness?

 

[John Kowalski]

I don't have a particularly strong opinion about this, but it does irk me that changes like these are never discussed by the publisher previous to the game's launch.

That said, i can understand why they felt they had to change those models, even though i think the belt thing is pretty fucking cool as it was. I don't care much for how old or young they look, it matters little given the specificity of their art style (whether or not they are 15 years old matters very little, anyone who really thinks that pushes the argument either way is really dismissive of actual anatomy, and how they reduce the human form into those tiny models, almost devoid of sexual features), and i'd argue that there is potentially no real harm whatsoever in the uncensored designs. They are rather frisky, and certainly carry a cultural weight that would obviously create some friction, and it i would personally put away my interests if it meant that the game would suffer little backlash associated with sexual content (still one of the greatest cultural clusterfucks in the west).

In any case, loving the thread.

 

[Parfait]

"They don't really exist guys" is just as much a criticism of the developers bothering to put effort into their designs as it is a criticism of people who care about said designs.

I don't consume media and art soley based on it's realism, so I don't really criticize designs on whether or not it works in real life. That's why it's a fantasy.

 

[YianGaruga]

Why would cutting out a male costume rather than giving it a similar treatment to the costumes shown in the OP be considered localisation? Sure it may out be strictly censorship (so we don't start another definition debate), but it certainly isn't just localisation either. Changing the ages because western attitude see 18yos as responsible enough to go on a quest rather than 15yos is just localisation. Not being able to translate certain puns because it really doesn't work in any other language than Japanese is just localisation. But really, cutting content for no reason should not be excused as just localisation.

So the only thing left that is "censorship" is that there's a costume of a guy in his underpants missing? What are we even talking about here, does that really change anything? They thought it wouldn't be appropriate for their target audience, they removed it. This is not some slippery slope that leads to the censoring of every other videogame in the future.

 

[Garcia]

I think this thread would be less painful to read if the people arguing that Bravely Default is a game for pedophiles would have at least played the part where the bravo bikini appears. It's just weird that the most insulting posts come from people who clearly haven't played the game and are judging it by the pictures outside of any context.

And you know what? Honestly though, I now feel bad that I originally called those outfits "disturbing" (because of the age of the characters) since that places me in the same spot as some people who are pretty narrow minded and have shared the most extremist and uneducated points of view.

Now I know why I take long breaks when I come back to browse GAF.

 

[Elaugaufein]

As you noticed Dragons crown got released just fine. As long as the amount of people willing to buy something outweighs those that would be off put and it's not illegal companies will tend to do it anyway. Your talking about the majority vs the minority rather than simply censorship, unless an outside factor (e.g the government) steps in.

You example refers to everything. Microsofts DRM was removed due to public outcry by your definition and outcry that is censorship. it's simply how the world works. If the majority don't like something or a persuaded not to like something, quite often something will happen. In a democratic and profit driven world it's simply a fact of life in many scenario.

You have less power if you are in the minority. You will not be able to achieve and have certain things. Whether that be legalised rape, child porn, or well majority of illegal things.

Except that the majority has a dangerous tendency to believe the minority shouldn't get to express its opinion at all (see also: this thread). And when that happens that's censorship. Also what ? I certainly have no interested in legalized rape or child porn.

There certainly are things that are illegal that I think shouldn't be but I hardly think I'm the only person in the world aware that legal is not the same as moral , illegal is not the same as immoral and majority opinion is not necessarily correct.

 

[R_thanatos]

Alright lets get some stuff straight.

1.The characters aren't real-
Guess what? These characters don't exist in real life. So whatever their supposed age is, which can change because they're not real, it doesn't matter. Just like with 1000 year old vampires in the bodies of a 12 year old, the number on the paper doesn't matter because at the end of the day, it's just a number on a paper. Them being aged up from 15 to 18 doesn't matter because they don't exist. You know what that also means? People saying that other posters liking the original designs are pedophiles, are idiots. Seriously just turn off your computer and stop posting. Just stop and think about what you're typing or just don't post at all. The characters don't have a set age as they're not real. It's not like in real life where people have an objective age that can't be changed at the whim of a writer. The numbers clearly don't matter in this case so why should you? Nothing changes if the character was 15, 18, 20, or 25. So stop getting all indignant and saying that because the fictional character is 15, they shouldn't be sexualized. They don't exist.

2.It's a mixture of the artstyle chibi and Yoshida's artstyle-

Guess what? They're not sexualizing toddlers but rather, intentionally deformed chibi versions of Yoshida's artwork. Toddlers =/ chibi. Also go back to point 1 in that the characters don't exist and can be whatever age the writers want them to be. Nobody is jerking off to a bunch of pixelated chibi representations of Yoshida's art. The developers are having a bit of fun with the costumes and the game in generally is a bit sexualized. If all you see is toddlers then you need to look at more artstyles. Also if it's embarrassing for you to be playing this game in public, then that's your personal problem that you need to get over.

3.Whatever your opinion of the costume changes, changing of the dialogue to alter tone is unacceptable-

Obviously there will be some changes due to translation work but if they're intentionally trying to tone down innuendo then that is unacceptable. It's demeaning to the audience and it's something that we should be past at this point.

4.Who gives a fuck about the proper definition of censorship?

What people are referring to in this thread is the higherups at Nintendo or SE forcing changes on a work that would not have been done otherwise. Stop making this into a semantics debate and look at the actual issues being discussed.

Excellent post

 

[Jarmel]

My point is that the whole "its just a fictional depiction, they're not real, how can you get upset about it" (and its not just you, this keeps coming up)
a.)then precludes anyone from having any emotional response to a fictional depiction (I don't buy that "I'm bothered by this" is somehow a special class of reaction)
and
b.) seems dismissive of the effort that the devs did put in. If the character's age doesn't matter then why would they specify it? More importantly, if its impossible for a character to be "sexualized" because they're fake then why would they put effort into designing costumes that evoke ideas of sexualization?

There's a difference from having an emotional response to a fictional depiction and equating it to a real life scenario. Look at GTA for example, where we can kill hookers. That's like saying people who go on murdering rampages in a videogame are future serial killers. The people in GTA don't exist.

The developers sometimes mention the age for lore and canon reasons. Especially if they're going to reuse the same characters for future games or sequels. I didn't mention they can't be sexualized because the costumes obviously are, but they also don't exist. The developers were having some fun with the costume designs and it also fits in the tone of the game. The characters don't exist so they could put the characters nude and it wouldn't matter. That doesn't mean the player is supposed to jerk off to a 15 year old chibi.

 

[QaaQer]

Censorship is always wrong.

How is this not a textbook example of (self-)censorship?

.

BD's Western release has been handled very poorly. They've changed the art, the dialog, and the gameplay for the west. And while I can see arguing for the change in art, the dialog and gameplay changes are crap.

 

[Elaugaufein]

So the only thing left that is "censorship" is that there's a costume of a guy in his underpants missing? What are we even talking about here, does that really change anything? They thought it wouldn't be appropriate for their target audience, they removed it. This is not some slippery slope that leads to the censoring of every other videogame in the future.

It's called a slippery slope precisely because it appears harmless (or benign) at first and then it turns out badly before you really realize why. It wouldn't be a slippery slope if it wasn't easily dismissed / justified when it starts to occurs. That's what the whole "First they came for the .." thing is warning about.

 

[Oregano]

.

BD's Western release has been handled very poorly. They've changed the art, the dialog, and the gameplay for the west. And while I can see arguing for the change in art, the dialog and gameplay changes are crap.

WTF are you talking about? List these changes.

 

[Village]

that's why they're doing it.



this isn't so much "censorship" as it is re-marketization to make it more appealing to a different market. no one really likes 15 year olds, or sexy ones at that.

The fact that square enix exists disproves this statement.

They built their empire on teen/young adult angst and will continue to do so .

 

[Principate]

Except that the majority has a dangerous tendency to believe the minority shouldn't get to express its opinion at all (see also: this thread). And when that happens that's censorship. Also what ? I certainly have no interested in legalized rape or child porn.

There certainly are things that are illegal that I think shouldn't be but I hardly think I'm the only person in the world aware that legal is not the same as moral , illegal is not the same as immoral and majority opinion is not necessarily correct.

That is fine it's what the government is there for. But you can't expect to always win in cases like this where the whole point a company is doing something (they have no obligation to do this) is profit. If something will damage that profit they'll tend to shy away.

You can not simply control that. As you could in turn lead to a case of oppression. You should fight the good fight but you should keep your expectations in check.

 

[Glittering Crux]

In any case, loving the thread.

Between this thread and the one from yesterday where GAF discovered 4chan this place has been great.

That said, I'm most bothered by the male costume being removed. I don't think the complete removal of it is acceptable at all. I'm alright with small cosmetic changes as long as they don't change the artistic vision significantly. For example, I'm a lot more annoyed with Diana's edits in SMTIV than the costume changes in BD. The script changes really depend how much/what was changed. I haven't played the EU or JP versions of the game but I feel the lines that got changed are more or less equivalent to what Aksys does which I am alright with (though I could do without the pony references).

 

[Elaugaufein]

.

BD's Western release has been handled very poorly. They've changed the art, the dialog, and the gameplay for the west. And while I can see arguing for the change in art, the dialog and gameplay changes are crap.

I'm actually not aware of any game play changes for the West. I'm pretty sure all the gameplay stuff is still in the Japanese rerelease (except that we in the west missed out on several Nemesis things (but you can still get them via Net friend if you're lucky).

 

[pwack]

I cannot believe this discussion is still going. The notion that a company editing it's work to appeal to the audience it wants equals censorship is horribly naive.

SE is a company, and they want to make money. I guarantee that tons of ideas are cut, modified, or added during the creation of any game solely for purposes of increasing audience and sales. That these particular small changes made as part of localization are somehow ruining the game or destroying the artistic vision is funny.

 

[Village]

Alright lets get some stuff straight.

Ontopic doe, dont the dudes in this game have sexy outfits too?

1.The characters aren't real-
Guess what? These characters don't exist in real life. So whatever their supposed age is, which can change because they're not real, it doesn't matter. Just like with 1000 year old vampires in the bodies of a 12 year old, the number on the paper doesn't matter because at the end of the day, it's just a number on a paper. Them being aged up from 15 to 18 doesn't matter because they don't exist. You know what that also means? People saying that other posters liking the original designs are pedophiles, are idiots. Seriously just turn off your computer and stop posting. Just stop and think about what you're typing or just don't post at all. The characters don't have a set age as they're not real. It's not like in real life where people have an objective age that can't be changed at the whim of a writer. The numbers clearly don't matter in this case so why should you? Nothing changes if the character was 15, 18, 20, or 25. So stop getting all indignant and saying that because the fictional character is 15, they shouldn't be sexualized. They don't exist.

Then as a blak/arabic I shouldn't get mad at racist cartoons, video games and general fiction that make up horrible characters of my people because , because they aren't real people. ...

Wait a minute, that is largest lapse in logic I have ever seen. ( exaggerating ) .I understand your point, but what you brought to support it , is strait up ignorant and dumb. I'm not saying that the next FF is gonna be on the same level as old racist cartoons. Or ... well every black FF character, or DOA or something. However I am saying that the logic you bringing to the table is majorly flawed.

 

[Jarmel]

Then I shouldn't get mad at racist cartoons , because they aren't ...

Wait a minute, that is largest lapse in logic I have ever seen. ( exaggerating )

I understand your point, but what you brought to support it , is strait up ignorant and dumb.

The issue with racist cartoons has more to do with the intent behind the cartoons rather than the cartoons themselves.

 

[Village]

The issue with racist cartoons has more to do with the intent behind the cartoons rather than the cartoons themselves.

Intent means nothing.

Im sure Square enix didn't intend barret. The fact that they went Black -> Mr T was still kinda racist.

An easier to swallow version, Intent means nothing... you didn't intend to hit that man with you car, that shit still happened.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Additionally, the definition of a loli(ta) (at least from my very limited research into the matter) is a sexual fascination with someone under the age of consent. I'm pretty sure that includes 15 year olds, at least in my country, especially when they're dressed in a thong/belt strap and use sexual innuendo. So my point still stands. Nintendo obviously agrees, or they wouldn't make the changes.

Well, it's not that simple. For starters, Nintendo also changed their ages. So, the whole loli/pedo accusations really don't even work with their ages in the western releases. And this isn't the first time Nintendo has censored scantily clad characters. They also censored the Fire Emblem DLC

So, this may just be an issue of the western divisions of Nintendo not being comfortable with characters being depicted certain ways regardless of their age.

 

[gngf123]

Well, it's not that simple. For starters, Nintendo also changed their ages. So, the whole loli/pedo accusations really don't even work with their ages in the western releases. And this isn't the first time Nintendo has censored scantily clad characters. They also censored the Fire Emblem DLC

So, this may just be an issue of the western divisions of Nintendo not being comfortable with characters being depicted certain ways regardless of their age.

That was US only AFAIK. Us European folk got that scene uncensored, although we did get some script changes instead.

Boingy bits.

 

[QaaQer]

WTF are you talking about? List these changes.

Naw, don't feel like getting yelled at by 3ds/nintendo fans. Someone else can do it.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Well, it's not that simple. For starters, Nintendo also changed their ages. So, the whole loli/pedo accusations really don't even work with their ages in the western releases. And this isn't the first time Nintendo has censored scantily clad characters. They also censored the Fire Emblem DLC

So, this may just be an issue of the western divisions of Nintendo not being comfortable with characters being depicted certain ways regardless of their age.

This is still hilarious, since one of the characters in the game wears a cape that looks like that cover, so it goes from someone in a skimpy costume to a weird form of voyeur porn.

 

[Jarmel]

Intent means nothing.

Im sure Square enix didn't intend barret. The fact that they went Black -> Mr T was still kinda racist.

An easier to swallow version, Intent means nothing... you didn't intend to hit that man with you car, that shit still happened.

Intent or societal factors, whatever you want to blame, that's the bigger issue than the caricature itself. What caused those people to create whatever the offending thing is, is a much bigger problem than the work produced.

 

[Glass Rebel]

And you know what? Honestly though, I now feel bad that I originally called those outfits "disturbing" (because of the age of the characters) since that places me in the same spot as some people who are pretty narrow minded and have shared the most extremist and uneducated points of view.

Now I know why I take long breaks when I come back to browse GAF.

I don't think you should. That part of the game is obviously intended to be disturbing. It fits the setting and the "corruption" of the world.

Spoilers:

Spoiler

When the party arrives at the female-only city of Florem, which used to be very pious and modest according to Agnes (the brunette one), they noticed that the female-only population has become extremely superficial because of a beauty craze mediated by some external actors trying to make a profit. To get the attention of an old friend who is in hiding, Agnes is forced to take part in a beauty contest and the party decides that she needs to have an especially beautiful and later "sexy" outfit. Agnes gets incredibly uncomfortable in the bikini and Tiz, the moral compass of the party, tells her that she doesn't have to wear it if she doesn't want to. Later, Edea (the blond one) sees it as the only way to lure in the playboy villain the party suspects to be involved in the disappearances of Florem's citizens.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Between this thread and the one from yesterday where GAF discovered 4chan this place has been great.

Can I have a link? Sounds hilarious.

That said, I'm most bothered by the male costume being removed. I don't think the complete removal of it is acceptable at all. I'm alright with small cosmetic changes as long as they don't change the artistic vision significantly. For example, I'm a lot more annoyed with Diana's edits in SMTIV than the costume changes in BD. The script changes really depend how much/what was changed. I haven't played the EU or JP versions of the game but I feel the lines that got changed are more or less equivalent to what Aksys does which I am alright with (though I could do without the pony references).

I don't know why they didn't just give a simple edit treatment to Ringabel's costume. Kind of annoying that now only the girls are allowed to have fanservicey costumes.

 

[Oregano]

Naw, don't feel like getting yelled at by 3ds/nintendo fans. Someone else can do it.

Really? It seems more like you don't have a clue what you're talking about. There's people here who have actually played the game, some have even played both the JP and Western versions.

Also why would 3DS/Nintendo fans yell at you if it's a localisation change?

 

[Storm Chamber]

This entire thread. Jesus.

 

[Glittering Crux]

Can I have a link? Sounds hilarious.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=745021

My description of it was pretty liberal but it was more or less a bunch of impressions by people who don't know anything about the board.

 

[Village]

Intent or societal factors, whatever you want to blame, that's the bigger issue than the caricature itself. What caused those people to create whatever the offending thing is, is a much bigger problem than the work produced.

Our media. You wanna know how we change society to stop producing these characters in our media, by changing it. Trying new things, letting other types of people do things. While it wont instafix societal problems. Telling the guy
" hey dude that black guy you are designing is a strait up stereotype, change that shit. It doesn't really fit with what we got going " is doing a hell of a lot more than you think. And could possibly get more minorities into entertainment businesses when they feel like they actually get a fair shake. And have their people and heritage represented.

Not to be mean, your response is kind of the generic " head in ground lalalalala " kind of thing that gets nothing done. " we can't change our media, we have directly fix the problem". The problem will start getting fixed when we change our media, you know that thing that is all encompassing that is around us all the time, especially in this day an age .Not doing much for people self esteem when there people are relegated to side kick , side character, or racist caricature stereotype all the time.



Veering off topic doe,


I find your logic flawed at its core.


BTW IIRC the dudes have weird outfits too, I never really thought it was that bad really. I just don't like the logic you used to defend these outfits.

 

[Kinyou]

I cannot believe this discussion is still going. The notion that a company editing it's work to appeal to the audience it wants equals censorship is horribly naive.

SE is a company, and they want to make money. I guarantee that tons of ideas are cut, modified, or added during the creation of any game solely for purposes of increasing audience and sales. That these particular small changes made as part of localization are somehow ruining the game or destroying the artistic vision is funny.

Just out of curiosity, what would you call the removal of the lesbian relationship from the Sailor Moon anime? I'm pretty sure that was also done to increase the audience and sales

 

[SapientWolf]

Censorship is always wrong.

How is this not a textbook example of (self-)censorship?

Not always.

 

[BGBW]

So the only thing left that is "censorship" is that there's a costume of a guy in his underpants missing? What are we even talking about here, does that really change anything? They thought it wouldn't be appropriate for their target audience, they removed it. This is not some slippery slope that leads to the censoring of every other videogame in the future.

It's actually a bigger issue than what this thread has focused on, why is it alright to keep the female characters in an edited skimpy outfit but the male outfit has to be removed completely?

 

[Principate]

Not always.

Yeah absolute statements are generally a pretty terrible idea.

Would you find people objecting to the censorship of actual child porn, (That is what that is people should realise)

Google is planning to remove all search results for child porn in the UK, due to the government calling them out on that.

It's actually a bigger issue than what this thread has focused on, why is it alright to keep the female characters in an edited skimpy outfit but the male outfit has to be removed completely?

Probably because the males was almost entirely naked and a direct reference to something that, wouldn't work if it didn't exist in it's current form (cupid) and well they were lazy to figure out what to do with it so they removed it whole sale.

 

[yaesir]

The developers cared enough about their fictional age to specify it. If they cared, why shouldn't we?

Do you care about a person's blood type? Do you believe the blood type can change someone's personality?

Japanese people do (at least some of them) enough to specify a character's blood type in a LOT of media (games/anime/manga).

The numbers (age) are clearly useless just like the blood type.

 

[gamergirly]

This entire thread. Jesus.

.

 

[Kintaro]

Still going eh? Sad thing is, only about 10-20% of this thread ever had any interest in this game to begin with and only half of them were going to buy it.

 

[kuroneko0509]

.

BD's Western release has been handled very poorly. They've changed the art, the dialog, and the gameplay for the west. And while I can see arguing for the change in art, the dialog and gameplay changes are crap.

what the heck are you talking about?

 

[Principate]

Do you care about a person's blood type? Do you believe the blood type can change someone's personality?

Japanese people do (at least some of them) enough to specify a character's blood type in a LOT of media (games/anime/manga).

The numbers (age) are clearly useless just like the blood type.

No they serve a point. Age is very different from blood type. A story about a 40 year old and a story about a 20 year old leave different impressions on a reader, same with 18, and 10, or 80.

Blood type is just meaningless.