CadetMahoney
Member
this thread:
Being 100% honest my first time seeing the walking dead was through a stream from a lets player I use to watch all the time, i thought she was white(it didnt help that she has a white voice actor) and Im a black man myself with cousins who are almost pale white, so I def am not jumping on anybody who didnt immediately think she was black.Sooo, I know this has been pretty much laid to rest. It isn't my intention to re-spark the drama, but I was still a little bothered. Going back through the thread I believe a lot of the contention is couched in misunderstanding. Obviously I can't speak to everyone's intentions, but there was hardly anyone saying a Black person couldn't look like Clementine. Just on the basis of common sense, who would think that? This wasn't about denial. I've run into my share of racial ignorance and myopia on GAF (particularly during the Trayvon verdict), but I didn't pick up on any of that. What bothered me the most was seeing an earnest difference of opinion be met with nasty derision from what I can only assume is a collection of Black GAF members. I get why it's frustrating having to explain that Black people, too, can be "fair skinned" or have "slanted eyes" or "straight hair", but the irony is that a lot of you were the ones choosing to reduce the discussion to that. Operating on the false assumption that those were the reasons people didn't catch Clem's background.
Now, speaking as a Black man who also didn't immediately see Clem as Black, it's even more infuriating that someone might think my reasons "ignorant" or informed by a limited world view. I don't even know what I could say to prove otherwise, lol. It's just funny. Being 100% honest - at a glance - I did not think she was Black, and frankly, had I not seen the parents or known the designer's intent, I wouldn't describe her that way. Does it mean I could never arrive at the conclusion? Of course not. But, it certainly would not be my first guess. There are a number of reasons for this, the least of which concerns people's perception of what Blackness can be. And, yes, many of those reasons are very problematic (as partly evidenced in this thread), but that's more reflective of the industry (and even a few of TellTale's choices) than it is of GAF.
I want to apologize to anyone offended by my comments. Evidently not as adept at conveying sarcasm as the rest of you. I'll be retiring the Carmelita joke. As far as my post about Clem not looking like "most African Americans", I was a bit in over my head. Spoke out of misplaced frustration/cynicism, and would hate for anyone to feel marginalized.
Sooo, I know this has been pretty much laid to rest. It isn't my intention to re-spark the drama, but I was still a little bothered. Going back through the thread I believe a lot of the contention is couched in misunderstanding. Obviously I can't speak to everyone's intentions, but there was hardly anyone saying a Black person couldn't look like Clementine. Just on the basis of common sense, who would think that? This wasn't about denial. I've run into my share of racial ignorance and myopia on GAF (particularly during the Trayvon verdict), but I didn't pick up on any of that. What bothered me the most was seeing an earnest difference of opinion be met with nasty derision from what I can only assume is a collection of Black GAF members. I get why it's frustrating having to explain that Black people, too, can be "fair skinned" or have "slanted eyes" or "straight hair", but the irony is that a lot of you were the ones choosing to reduce the discussion to that. Operating on the false assumption that those were the reasons people didn't catch Clem's background.
Now, speaking as a Black man who also didn't immediately see Clem as Black, it's even more infuriating that someone might think my reasons "ignorant" or informed by a limited world view. I don't even know what I could say to prove otherwise, lol. It's just funny. Being 100% honest - at a glance - I did not think she was Black, and frankly, had I not seen the parents or known the designer's intent, I wouldn't describe her that way. Does it mean I could never arrive at the conclusion? Of course not. But, it certainly would not be my first guess. There are a number of reasons for this, the least of which concerns people's perception of what Blackness can be. And, yes, many of those reasons are very problematic (as partly evidenced in this thread), but that's more reflective of the industry (and even a few of TellTale's choices) than it is of GAF.
I want to apologize to anyone offended by my comments. Evidently not as adept at conveying sarcasm as the rest of you. I'll be retiring the Carmelita joke. As far as my post about Clem not looking like "most African Americans", I was a bit in over my head. Spoke out of misplaced frustration/cynicism, and would hate for anyone to feel marginalized.
Is Christa supposed to be African-American or Middle Eastern?
I hope she's Middle Eastern, along with Omid. That's what I always assumed.
Why is this page nearly 20 pages long when the simple answer is yes lol
Why is this page nearly 20 pages long when the simple answer is yes lol
Christa is black. Omid is Middle Eastern.
Half-black, IIRCIs Obama black?
Half-black, IIRC
Half-black, IIRC
Damn he went full Ripclawe...you never go full Ripclawe.So saying that the majority of Black people don't look like Clementine is the same as saying all Blacks look the same? Or better, that all Blacks resemble Wesley Snipes? Gotcha. It's not like I suggested there exists some kind of negro pokedex. Just simply taking a wild guess that on the bell curve of Black (American) identity, Clementine falls somewhere on the very tail end. An end that could easily be shared with a number of other racial identities. Obviously color lines are shifting. The notion or image of Blackness has never been a constant. Given the history of black media portrayal, though, it's a fairly sensitive subject. Colorism is real. Under- and mis-representation are real. Should TellTale or any developer have to walk on eggshells because of it? Absolutely not. They could have made her orange and I wouldn't thought twice about it. But, yeah, when I discovered that she is in fact a little Black girl, it gave me pause since she could damn near be considered a lot of things. There may be nothing more to it, but unfortunately that's not the way I always view these matters. Doesn't make me ignorant.
But I voted for Obama! He'd go to strike me down, but then Joe Biden would step between us and be all like:You better be careful throwing the word "half" around so carelessly, lest Obama's scimitar cut you in pieces.
I think the guy who designed her was Asian and made her Asian like his daughter, but then Telltale wanted her to be black because they made Lee. So he had to change it. It's why she's a bit light/sorta Asian looking.
At least I think that's the story, but I'm not 100% sure. Don't remember where I read that.
Edit: Might have actually heard that on the Telltale stream they did a while ago, when they played the first season.
20 pages of opinions about nothing. Bravo.
Black History Month off to an amazing start on Gaming Side
I guess learning that black people come in all different shades like every other race/ethnicity is still learning something
eeeeeeeh I was with him until he said "stop talking about it"
color blindness is bullshit don't let anyone tell you otherwise
Even though I thought she was part black from my first play-through, I did get the sense that Telltale wanted to make her as ambiguous as possible, so everyone could feel a connection to her, regardless of race.She looks like a little bit of everything to me. Maybe that's the idea. Create one character everyone instinctively feels is in their kin!
Is Christa supposed to be African-American or Middle Eastern?
eeeeeeeh I was with him until he said "stop talking about it"
color blindness is bullshit don't let anyone tell you otherwise
is lee black? sometimes he looks white, and the idea of a history professor seemed like plausible with a white guy...
I hope she's Middle Eastern, along with Omid. That's what I always assumed.
Wow.
It was all jokes and giggles on the first few pages. But 18+ pages later, I'm a little amazed at the legs of this 'question'.
First: There shouldn't be an issue of her blackness. She's black even if you adhere to the unsubstantiated adopted interracial theory.
Second: What is this investigative desire to make Clem (An African american co-lead in a very successfully game where the lead also happens to be African american) something other than black?
Exactly. I mean, if I had to guess, I'd say she's black, but I can definitely see why people might think she's Asian, or white, or whatever. I can see why people would be genuinely curious. It's not some conspiracy to diminish anyone or keep anyone down. It is, in all probability, a design decision to blur the line -- maybe break down these barriers in the first place.Even though I thought she was part black from my first play-through, I did get the sense that Telltale wanted to make her as ambiguous as possible, so everyone could feel a connection to her, regardless of race.
is lee black? sometimes he looks white, and the idea of a history professor seemed like plausible with a white guy...
While I'm surprised that there were people that didn't identify her as black (and is great that more non-white characters take central roles), won't deny that when I saw her family's picture on the game, I DID question the intention of Telltale games for specifically make her lighter skinned, even more than Glenn.
There is no inherent problem with it, since as it has been made abundantly clear here, black people (and this apply to almost any ethnicity) can and do have different features.
Still, character design in these kind of games is a major deal and one would assume that there was a very precise,conscious reason of why her designers choose her to be like that. Perhaps it is as simple as she was based on someone real close to their team? It's obviously not based on the Voice actress, since she is a grown up white person.
So, I honestly -do think- that they went for the Alix Vance effect (ie. the very definition of a mixed race person), which, at least on theory, is meant to give the character a more 'relatable'(?)/likeable element to everyone.
IF that's the case (and I do not know if they ever touched such topic), I personally would hate to see such practice become a trend with other developers. It just feel like a cop out to me.
Yes? I questioned the motivations from her designers, and provided an argument for why I found it curious.So even after seeing the family picture you questioned her skin tone? Even though her mother was light skinned? Hmmm
I always thought she was half-black and half-asian
is lee black? sometimes he looks white, and the idea of a history professor seemed like plausible with a white guy...
Dude you just got Chinner'dI got Chinner'd
I feel this thread is like a honey trap. It has lasted way too long lol.
Clem will be forever remembered as a great character, regardless of her race, and if she's back (she is).. congratulations guys, you deserved this after years of being relegated to the side margin.
I don't know this expression, heh.You were almost home free
Omid is Persian-American