CadetMahoney
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Is Clementine from The Walking Dead black?
- Thread starter GraveHorizon
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breakfuss
Member
Sooo, I know this has been pretty much laid to rest. It isn't my intention to re-spark the drama, but I was still a little bothered. Going back through the thread I believe a lot of the contention is couched in misunderstanding. Obviously I can't speak to everyone's intentions, but there was hardly anyone saying a Black person couldn't look like Clementine. Just on the basis of common sense, who would think that? This wasn't about denial. I've run into my share of racial ignorance and myopia on GAF (particularly during the Trayvon verdict), but I didn't pick up on any of that. What bothered me the most was seeing an earnest difference of opinion be met with nasty derision from what I can only assume is a collection of Black GAF members. I get why it's frustrating having to explain that Black people, too, can be "fair skinned" or have "slanted eyes" or "straight hair", but the irony is that a lot of you were the ones choosing to reduce the discussion to that. Operating on the false assumption that those were the reasons people didn't catch Clem's background.
Now, speaking as a Black man who also didn't immediately see Clem as Black, it's even more infuriating that someone might think my reasons "ignorant" or informed by a limited world view. I don't even know what I could say to prove otherwise, lol. It's just funny. Being 100% honest - at a glance - I did not think she was Black, and frankly, had I not seen the parents or known the designer's intent, I wouldn't describe her that way. Does it mean I could never arrive at the conclusion? Of course not. But, it certainly would not be my first guess. There are a number of reasons for this, the least of which concerns people's perception of what Blackness can be. And, yes, many of those reasons are very problematic (as partly evidenced in this thread), but that's more reflective of the industry (and even a few of TellTale's choices) than it is of GAF.
I want to apologize to anyone offended by my comments. Evidently not as adept at conveying sarcasm as the rest of you.
I'll be retiring the Carmelita joke. As far as my post about Clem not looking like "most African Americans", I was a bit in over my head. Spoke out of misplaced frustration/cynicism, and would hate for anyone to feel marginalized.
Now, speaking as a Black man who also didn't immediately see Clem as Black, it's even more infuriating that someone might think my reasons "ignorant" or informed by a limited world view. I don't even know what I could say to prove otherwise, lol. It's just funny. Being 100% honest - at a glance - I did not think she was Black, and frankly, had I not seen the parents or known the designer's intent, I wouldn't describe her that way. Does it mean I could never arrive at the conclusion? Of course not. But, it certainly would not be my first guess. There are a number of reasons for this, the least of which concerns people's perception of what Blackness can be. And, yes, many of those reasons are very problematic (as partly evidenced in this thread), but that's more reflective of the industry (and even a few of TellTale's choices) than it is of GAF.
I want to apologize to anyone offended by my comments. Evidently not as adept at conveying sarcasm as the rest of you.
I'll be retiring the Carmelita joke. As far as my post about Clem not looking like "most African Americans", I was a bit in over my head. Spoke out of misplaced frustration/cynicism, and would hate for anyone to feel marginalized.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Being 100% honest my first time seeing the walking dead was through a stream from a lets player I use to watch all the time, i thought she was white(it didnt help that she has a white voice actor) and Im a black man myself with cousins who are almost pale white, so I def am not jumping on anybody who didnt immediately think she was black.Sooo, I know this has been pretty much laid to rest. It isn't my intention to re-spark the drama, but I was still a little bothered. Going back through the thread I believe a lot of the contention is couched in misunderstanding. Obviously I can't speak to everyone's intentions, but there was hardly anyone saying a Black person couldn't look like Clementine. Just on the basis of common sense, who would think that? This wasn't about denial. I've run into my share of racial ignorance and myopia on GAF (particularly during the Trayvon verdict), but I didn't pick up on any of that. What bothered me the most was seeing an earnest difference of opinion be met with nasty derision from what I can only assume is a collection of Black GAF members. I get why it's frustrating having to explain that Black people, too, can be "fair skinned" or have "slanted eyes" or "straight hair", but the irony is that a lot of you were the ones choosing to reduce the discussion to that. Operating on the false assumption that those were the reasons people didn't catch Clem's background.
Now, speaking as a Black man who also didn't immediately see Clem as Black, it's even more infuriating that someone might think my reasons "ignorant" or informed by a limited world view. I don't even know what I could say to prove otherwise, lol. It's just funny. Being 100% honest - at a glance - I did not think she was Black, and frankly, had I not seen the parents or known the designer's intent, I wouldn't describe her that way. Does it mean I could never arrive at the conclusion? Of course not. But, it certainly would not be my first guess. There are a number of reasons for this, the least of which concerns people's perception of what Blackness can be. And, yes, many of those reasons are very problematic (as partly evidenced in this thread), but that's more reflective of the industry (and even a few of TellTale's choices) than it is of GAF.
I want to apologize to anyone offended by my comments. Evidently not as adept at conveying sarcasm as the rest of you.
mullet2000
Member
Sooo, I know this has been pretty much laid to rest. It isn't my intention to re-spark the drama, but I was still a little bothered. Going back through the thread I believe a lot of the contention is couched in misunderstanding. Obviously I can't speak to everyone's intentions, but there was hardly anyone saying a Black person couldn't look like Clementine. Just on the basis of common sense, who would think that? This wasn't about denial. I've run into my share of racial ignorance and myopia on GAF (particularly during the Trayvon verdict), but I didn't pick up on any of that. What bothered me the most was seeing an earnest difference of opinion be met with nasty derision from what I can only assume is a collection of Black GAF members. I get why it's frustrating having to explain that Black people, too, can be "fair skinned" or have "slanted eyes" or "straight hair", but the irony is that a lot of you were the ones choosing to reduce the discussion to that. Operating on the false assumption that those were the reasons people didn't catch Clem's background.
Now, speaking as a Black man who also didn't immediately see Clem as Black, it's even more infuriating that someone might think my reasons "ignorant" or informed by a limited world view. I don't even know what I could say to prove otherwise, lol. It's just funny. Being 100% honest - at a glance - I did not think she was Black, and frankly, had I not seen the parents or known the designer's intent, I wouldn't describe her that way. Does it mean I could never arrive at the conclusion? Of course not. But, it certainly would not be my first guess. There are a number of reasons for this, the least of which concerns people's perception of what Blackness can be. And, yes, many of those reasons are very problematic (as partly evidenced in this thread), but that's more reflective of the industry (and even a few of TellTale's choices) than it is of GAF.
I want to apologize to anyone offended by my comments. Evidently not as adept at conveying sarcasm as the rest of you.
In general I'm pretty with you on that. It's disappointing how hostile people are sometimes toward people's ignorance (the real definition of ignorance, not the loaded term that it's become). I saw very, very few posts couched in denial or anything else like (though they were there) that in this thread, but a whole lot of sarcastic and insulting remarks from certain posters.
I always finding disappointing that people choose to insult or get angry rather than educate. To be fair, this is far, far, faaaaar from just an issue in this thread, but....this is about cultural understanding and equality, at it's core, right? When people insult people who don't "get" that Clem isn't black right away or whatever the issue at hand may be, how is that helping? At that person's core they want there to be better understanding of different culture/race/people/whatever in society but...we're doing this by alienating and insulting people's intelligence or intentions with sarcastic remarks? By leaning over to your other more educated friends and laughing? That's...pretty counter-productive isn't it? We're going to gain understanding by pushing people away?
This is a trend I've seen a lot lately on GAF and other places online and I'm disappointed every time I see it. I get it. I know why people get frustrated and do it. But it's...it's not good in the long run to do that. It's why a lot of people have a poor view of "social justice warriors" or what-have-you right now...if you aren't very educated on the subject and your only encounters with it have been aggressive or insulting ones...why care or listen? Aggressive attitudes don't help and they're becoming pretty common in situations such as this one. And unfortunately those aggressive attitudes are the ones that are going to stand out to people.
When education is paramount to this whole topic it's disappointing to see posts where people have seemingly given up on it, stating things like "It's unfortunate that so many people in this thread seem wholly incapable of it (learning and adapting)."
I hope she's Middle Eastern, along with Omid. That's what I always assumed.
Christa is black. Omid is Middle Eastern.
RedAssedApe
Banned
cuz. so controversial
Zeyphersan
Banned
How did this thread make it to 19 pages without being locked?
harriet the spy
Member
That's what I got too.
StreetDisciple
Member
Is Obama black?
Half-black, IIRC
StreetDisciple
Member
Deepsouth strongly disagrees
You better be careful throwing the word "half" around so carelessly, lest Obama's scimitar cut you in pieces.
MWS Natural
Member
Damn he went full Ripclawe...you never go full Ripclawe.
But I voted for Obama! He'd go to strike me down, but then Joe Biden would step between us and be all like:
So your theory is that he is Asian but has a black daughter? Because that character does not even slightly look Asian. I am not sure where you guys get your impression of Asians from, but its not Asia it seems.
paperboywriter
Member
20 pages of opinions about nothing. Bravo.
"they stole that baby..."
if there's anything GAF is about, it's the love.
I will admit I thought she was mixed, but I never did more than look at previews. She could be a lot of things, but the people who say 'she can't possibly be X' are the ones who make me wonder.
if there's anything GAF is about, it's the love.
I will admit I thought she was mixed, but I never did more than look at previews. She could be a lot of things, but the people who say 'she can't possibly be X' are the ones who make me wonder.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
eeeeeeeh I was with him until he said "stop talking about it"
color blindness is bullshit don't let anyone tell you otherwise
I don't remember the picture too well, but I would definitely assume one of her parents was black.
When I played (didn't finish the season) I don't recall focusing on race.
At a glance without any context I would say Asian though.
Maybe the design was agreed on since it could be ambiguous to players.
Why can't she be both or what players want her to be? Black, Hispanic or Asian or White for that matter.
Coming up with theories of her being adopted are depressing though.
I understand that black has many shades, and some are not unfamiliar with all of them.
But just because someone doesn't think she looks black doesn't mean she can't be something else.
Everyone comes in various shapes and sizes and colors.
If Clementine is black, asian or martian she is awesome.
Maybe Telltale can share their feeling, or how Clem would identify.
When I played (didn't finish the season) I don't recall focusing on race.
At a glance without any context I would say Asian though.
Maybe the design was agreed on since it could be ambiguous to players.
Why can't she be both or what players want her to be? Black, Hispanic or Asian or White for that matter.
Coming up with theories of her being adopted are depressing though.
I understand that black has many shades, and some are not unfamiliar with all of them.
But just because someone doesn't think she looks black doesn't mean she can't be something else.
Everyone comes in various shapes and sizes and colors.
If Clementine is black, asian or martian she is awesome.
Maybe Telltale can share their feeling, or how Clem would identify.
Zeyphersan
Banned
I remember watching that video back in high school and thinking "Yeah, stop talking about it, it'll go away!"
Now I had the same reaction as you. That's not really a solution..
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Even though I thought she was part black from my first play-through, I did get the sense that Telltale wanted to make her as ambiguous as possible, so everyone could feel a connection to her, regardless of race.
Christa is black.
Or maybe his vision is just too many decades ahead of us mere mortals to conceive.
If you wonder if he is of African-American decent, then yes you are right. During the later parts of the game
he might be looking more pale, especially in the later part of episode 5 because he is gradually dying of the walker bite
Here is Lee's family picture :
And it's just silly to say that the idea of a history professor is supposedly plausible with a white guy.
http://www.historianstv.com/index.php?id=2&vid=180
If you are so curious about their ethnicity you can always just check out the TWD Wikipedia.
Christa is listed as African-American
Both of Clementine's parent is listed as African-American
Omid is Persian-American
Lee is African-American
I was wondering that as well.
The cynical part of me formed by our society is quick to deem you as closet racist but another part of me wants to believe, believe that it's just a fact that most of you live in segregated communities and never felt the the need to go outside your bubble.
Which is fine and dandy. You don't need to enter "the hood" and ask how it is to be black.
You don't need to go find "the Asian" part of your place.
You can pretend to be color blind.
You can even ask me how it is to be mixed and judged to be neither when you find out.
You can do it all.
But you can't expect me to believe half you aren't crazy, stupid or really closed off the world around you. No discussion seen here will change that. I'm hoping you're just green to the world.
And if you ever use the term "exotic" please be white and refer to yourself since statisticly speaking "YOU" are in the minority.
Now I'm going to try and actually read the last 8 pages to see if I actually missed anything or if it's still 17 pages of the same.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Thread keeps going because people post without reading the thread or think of it as a great opportunity to show their comedy skills.
If you felt hurt because you were told Clementine is black, couldn't deal with it and kept sputtering "but, but" that is %100 on you. Plenty of people said "oh, ok" and kept going. Obviously not everyone on Gaf has the same experiences or level of experience, but it's what you choose to do with info given that makes the difference.
If you felt hurt because you were told Clementine is black, couldn't deal with it and kept sputtering "but, but" that is %100 on you. Plenty of people said "oh, ok" and kept going. Obviously not everyone on Gaf has the same experiences or level of experience, but it's what you choose to do with info given that makes the difference.
Exactly. I mean, if I had to guess, I'd say she's black, but I can definitely see why people might think she's Asian, or white, or whatever. I can see why people would be genuinely curious. It's not some conspiracy to diminish anyone or keep anyone down. It is, in all probability, a design decision to blur the line -- maybe break down these barriers in the first place.
While I'm surprised that there were people that didn't identify her as black (and is great that more non-white characters take central roles), won't deny that when I saw her family's picture on the game, I DID question the intention of Telltale games for specifically make her lighter skinned, even more than Glenn.
There is no inherent problem with it, since as it has been made abundantly clear here, black people (and this apply to almost any ethnicity) can and do have different features.
Still, character design in these kind of games is a major deal and one would assume that there was a very precise,conscious reason of why her designers choose her to be like that. Perhaps it is as simple as she was based on someone real close to their team? It's obviously not based on the Voice actress, since she is a grown up white person.
So, I honestly -do think- that they went for the Alix Vance effect (ie. the very definition of a mixed race person), which, at least on theory, is meant to give the character a more 'relatable'(?)/likeable element to everyone.
IF that's the case (and I do not know if they ever touched such topic), I personally would hate to see such practice become a trend with other developers. It just feel like a cop out to me.
There is no inherent problem with it, since as it has been made abundantly clear here, black people (and this apply to almost any ethnicity) can and do have different features.
Still, character design in these kind of games is a major deal and one would assume that there was a very precise,conscious reason of why her designers choose her to be like that. Perhaps it is as simple as she was based on someone real close to their team? It's obviously not based on the Voice actress, since she is a grown up white person.
So, I honestly -do think- that they went for the Alix Vance effect (ie. the very definition of a mixed race person), which, at least on theory, is meant to give the character a more 'relatable'(?)/likeable element to everyone.
IF that's the case (and I do not know if they ever touched such topic), I personally would hate to see such practice become a trend with other developers. It just feel like a cop out to me.
Unbound By Death
Member
LOL
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
So even after seeing the family picture you questioned her skin tone? Even though her mother was light skinned? Hmmm
Yes? I questioned the motivations from her designers, and provided an argument for why I found it curious.
To be more clear: Clementine is a character. Designed (one would assume) under clear specifications. Her Father/Mother are non-relevant and thus are a bypass product of how she looks.. not viceversa.
PetriP-TNT
Member
Me too.
tintin1029
Member
Dude you just got Chinner'd
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
You were almost home free
IncandescentPrecept
Banned
Her mother seems like she is from Nepal or Mongolia.
I don't know this expression, heh.
A more controversial question than Clementine's skin color is why Omid is shorter than Christa. I know, in bed it doesn't matter how long your legs are, but that is just against nature.
He is also looking like a terrorist, and therefore obviously a terrorist.
The Walking Dead must have been made by a bunch of goddamn liberals.
And I love it for that.
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