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‘The Walking Dead’ – Season 4, Part 2 – Sundays on AMC

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O

OmegaFax

Member
I've casually watched the show since the beginning. I didn't even know it was based on a comic book when I started watching it. In fact, surprised a show about zombies needed any source material.

My first impression of the show three and something years ago is the same before as it is today; serialized, week to week drama of a show based around the zombie apocalypse is a dead end.

The show benefits immensely from the October/February rotation. The genre probably attracts viewership around those times of the year more than strictly,say, the summer. This is TV's Saw or Paranormal Activity. Love it or hate it, people will watch it.

This week's episode was boring. Two characters are held up in a house while trying to fend off zombies for the night while another one is wandering the woods remenecing about life before the zombies.

Chop, shoot, stab zombies. Drama between characters that involves some sort of convoluted power struggle or moral debate. Rinse, wash, bandage, repeat.
 
G

-griffy-

Banned
Man, some of the reactions to this episode really have me scratching my head. I really liked it. Even if Chandler Riggs isn't quite a strong enough actor to carry an episode entirely himself, it was still more good than not. It was an episode much closer to the pilot in terms of tone and visual storytelling than most Walking Dead episodes are, which is always a benchmark I feel the show should strive for.

I find myself really questioning what some people want out of this show sometimes if they are going to call this easily the worst episode of the series.
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
As someone that really doesn't like this show (why do I keep watching?), I actually enjoyed this weeks episode. I could have done with a little less of whiny/angst from Carl, but on the other hand, he IS a teenager afterall. It actually makes sense (maybe I'm not that fond of his acting either). I dunno, I actually don't mind it when the show has slow episodes that are character focused. Granted, usually these episodes fall apart because the characters are so insufferable, it doesn't work. But in the past, these episodes had a lot of characters in them, and awful dialogue/character action.

This episode was much more focused on atmosphere, and spent more time showing us rather than telling. You got a sense of where the characters were at emotionally, by what they did, or what they were going through. See, to me that worked. Some might find that boring, but I think this is perfectly fine. Granted, a show like this can't really sustain this sort of thing episode after episode. And these kind of episodes can be questionable when it comes to pacing. But I was fine with it being an opening.

I have a feeling some people are REALLY going to hate this half of the season. If they spend the majority of the episodes split between different groups and their survival outside, I wouldn't be surprised if we get more slow episodes, without a ton of over the top action. Of course, the show CAN deviate from the comics (and often does), so they could make each episode have action oriented moments. But I expect a lot of this will just be the various groups soul searching, until they finally come together to move on to the next arc.
 
O

Orlandu84

Member
It may not have been a high point in the series, but I greatly enjoyed the latest episode. With little background music to distract me, I found that the visual especially moving, One area that I did notice improvement was the camera work - a good deal of thought went into a number of shots. This bodes well for the rest of the season.
 
G

-griffy-

Banned
CyReN said:
Was there any reason why
Rick was so "dead",
like it was kinda laughable at times.
Click to expand...

Because he was literally almost choked to death by the Governor in the last episode, after having the shit beat out of him and receiving a bullet wound.
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
CyReN said:
Was there any reason why
Rick was so "dead",
like it was kinda laughable at times.
Click to expand...

Well, given his internal wounds (could have had crushed ribs, pulmonary contusion, was choked heavily (damage to his windpipes) etc.), that kind of trauma can definitely put someone's body into a state of shock. Especially since he doesn't have proper medical care, and was probably exhausted at all the traveling it took him after his extensive injuries. I actually found him going into a coma, and his heavy breathing pretty believable. It does happen in real life.

However, I thought the entire scene where he falls off the couch and makes sounds like a zombie was extremely on the nose and silly. In the comics something similar happens, but it doesn't really translate 1:1 to a TV drama. They should have kept it more simple, where Carl sees his dads fingers twitching as he comes to. And then Rick starts to breathe heavy and reach out to him while on the couch. That alone was enough of a moment where Carl could have fell back, got the gun, and started crying because he thought he had finally turned.

But of course, this is hollywood and they needed Carl to fall on top of his dad and cry over his head. So you know.
 
L

luxarific

Nork unification denier
double jump said:
the dream sequence had some horrible chemistry and acting though.
Click to expand...

I really loved how surreal it was. My nightmares usually start out normal, become more surreal, and then turn awful, at which point my brain is so freaked out it wakes up, so Michonne's dream sequence felt totally "real" for me. Thought it was the best part of episode. I really hope we get more flashbacks for her this part of the season. I want to see how she made it out of where ever she was and why she lost her family. The zombie apocalypse actually happening is more interesting to me than dealing with the aftermath.
 
C

CyReN

Member
Azula said:
Well, given his internal wounds (could have had crushed ribs, pulmonary contusion, was choked heavily (damage to his windpipes) etc.), that kind of trauma can definitely put someone's body into a state of shock. Especially since he doesn't have proper medical care, and was probably exhausted at all the traveling it took him after his extensive injuries. I actually found him going into a coma, and his heavy breathing pretty believable. It does happen in real life.

However, I thought the entire scene where he falls off the couch and makes sounds like a zombie was extremely on the nose and silly. In the comics something similar happens, but it doesn't really translate 1:1 to a TV drama. They should have kept it more simple, where Carl sees his dads fingers twitching as he comes to. And then Rick starts to breathe heavy and reach out to him while on the couch. That alone was enough of a moment where Carl could have fell back, got the gun, and started crying because he thought he had finally turned.

But of course, this is hollywood and they needed Carl to fall on top of his dad and cry over his head. So you know.
Click to expand...

Yea, I got the first part but when it got to the bolded part that's what bothered me.

---
Thanks for the answers guys.
 
J

Jason's Ultimatum

Member
I liked the episode. The atmosphere was great, and there was a haunting feeling seeing Carl go out alone and explore the area. Combine that with the music, and you have a great visual episode.

It almost felt different, like going back to the season 1's premiere, and next week's episode looks pretty crazy, too.
 
L

Lothar

Banned
Pryce said:
It's like the BB threads and "The Fly". Of course, not really comparable, but the same thoughts.
Click to expand...

I (and I assume others) wasn't finding the episode boring because there was no action. I found the episode boring because it started out with Carl being a dick (to a man who just found out his infant daughter was killed) and making us hate him. I was groaning at the beginning listening to Carl's lines. It was a combination of bad acting, ultra cheesy dialogue ("heh, I win dad"), and unlikable whiny teen angst. Then the show forced us to follow this annoying character for a hour. I didn't care what he was doing for that entire hour. I was just rooting for him to get bit and checking my watch over and over.

Fly is my all time favorite episode of Breaking Bad.
 
P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
Lashing out is a thing. Some of you know that right? It doesn't matter if it's rational that Carl is doing that. That's what lashing out is.
 
HeadsUpSevenUp

HeadsUpSevenUp

Member
arts&crafts said:
Damn I was hoping Rick was dead, he has just gotten so annoying.
Click to expand...

You sound like Carl :D I guess you need to walk backwards into a zombie for the tenth time, throw a hissy and then have a little cry before you man up and accept that you still need your dad.

Get back in the house, Carl!
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
-Pyromaniac- said:
Lashing out is a thing. Some of you know that right? It doesn't matter if it's rational that Carl is doing that. That's what lashing out is.
Click to expand...

Carl is a teenager, in the most fucked up world you could imagine. He's having to both be an adult, while at the same time going through the emotional growth of a teenager. It's not really compatible, and are at odds. This also plays into how Rick treats him (Rick still treats him as a child, and yet Carl is forced to do things a child shouldn't ever have to do). What is at odds then, is that Carl wants Rick to treat him like an adult, and yet emotionally he's not entirely ready to be. Conversely Rick wasn't entirely ready to let go, because if he lets go of treating Carl like a child (being a parent), then he is 100% abandoning any sense of normalcy they could hang on to.

I can understand as a viewer, this might not be pleasant to watch. Logically it makes sense. I guess that's the thing with entertainment though. Is it something people want to see? Well, this is a drama. So I dunno. Not everything in a drama is pleasant.
 
S

SamuraiX-

Member
-Pyromaniac- said:
Lashing out is a thing. Some of you know that right? It doesn't matter if it's rational that Carl is doing that. That's what lashing out is.
Click to expand...
Azula said:
Carl is a teenager, in the most fucked up world you could imagine. He's having to both be an adult, while at the same time going through the emotional growth of a teenager. It's not really compatible, and are at odds. This also plays into how Rick treats him (Rick still treats him as a child, and yet Carl is forced to do things a child shouldn't ever have to do). What is at odds then, is that Carl wants Rick to treat him like an adult, and yet emotionally he's not entirely read to be.

I can understand as a viewer, this might not be pleasant to watch. Logically it makes sense. I guess that's the thing with entertainment though. Is it something people want to see? Well, this is a drama. So I dunno. Not everything in a drama is pleasant.
Click to expand...

Well said, fellas!

To me, Chandler Riggs's acting has improved so much as he's aged and with experience. His performance was reasonably consistent and believable to me throughout the entire episode. Of course he had highs and lows like you would expect from any child actor but compared to a lot of his acting in Clear I thought his performance in After was a big step up and completely understandable for a kid his age who has been through as much as he has.
 
P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
Riggs is definitely improving. I feel like he does emotional extremes well enough, it's the middling stuff that still comes off as wooden. Like when he was luring the walkers away and telling them to follow him lol.

All in all when it comes to him it could be better but knowing how shitty child actors are I'm well aware that it could be a thousand times worse. He is doing a solid job.
 
T

Toa TAK

Banned
Enjoyed the slower paced episode. Michonne's story was the most interesting, though. We got a good glimpse of who she was in that nightmare. It almost felt like a different show when it started.

And man, glad they didn't let Rick die, that would've been it for me.
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
-Pyromaniac- said:
Riggs is definitely improving. I feel like he does emotional extremes well enough, it's the middling stuff that still comes off as wooden. Like when he was luring the walkers away and telling them to follow him lol.

All in all when it comes to him it could be better but knowing how shitty child actors are I'm well aware that it could be a thousand times worse. He is doing a solid job.
Click to expand...

I mean that's my only issue really. I still feel Riggs is a little stiff as an actor. But I agree he's improved a lot from earlier seasons.
 
R

RPGamer92

Banned
They're not gonna kill Rick until the end of the series if at that. No way Carl could carry the show as the main character and ratings would dramatically drop if they did that.
 
C

Cornballer

Member
AMC Press Release:
AMC’s The Walking Dead returned last night with the mid-season premiere of its fourth season, delivering 15.8 million viewers and 10.4 million adults 18-49. It was the #1 telecast for the night among adults 18-49, including the Sochi Winter Olympics. The Walking Dead continues to be the #1 show on all of television among the coveted 18-49 demographic. With time-shifted playback, last night’s premiere should exceed 20 million viewers.
Click to expand...
Full release here.
 
J

jett

D-Member
Corl all grown up in this bitch.

That was an okay episode, if Corrrl was a better actor it would've been much stronger.
 
A

ac1d

Neo Member
If Chandler Riggs is really as angsty and EMOtional right now in real life as he was on the show then I sure hope he isn't reading this website. We don't REALLY want this kid slitting his wrists whilst listening to Linkin Park.

I hated, HATED Carl in the first season, but since the 2nd hes been cool with me. He's not as terrible as some say lol.
 
Evolved1

Evolved1

make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
That wasn't a bad episode in theory, but the kid cannot fucking act. At all.

Ugh... they should change the actor.

Anyway, standout moment was Rick saying he only tried to be Ol' MacDonald for Carl and the Baby.
 
I

il Diavolo

Banned
I love how immediately after Carl proclaims he doesn't need Rick he gets into deep shit afterwards. Episode was pretty meh tbh. Alot of the emotional scenes came off as incredibly flat due to Riggs performance.
 
A

ac1d

Neo Member
I feel like it's more of what the writers make Carl do and say that make him and his acting not look so great or improved...Running into doors sure doesn't help his character though.
 
J

- J - D -

Member
ac1d said:
I feel like it's more of what the writers make Carl do and say that make him and his acting not look so great or improved...Running into doors sure doesn't help his character though.
Click to expand...

When Riggs ran into that door, I completely bought his performance.
 
S

Shipwrecked

Neo Member
Ratskatsky said:
lol, what are you even talking about?
Click to expand...

RatskyWatsky, it is my humblest opinion that this show has lost its sense of direction since season 2.

This show has become, in George Romero words, a "day-time soap with zombies" by unnecessarily dragging serveral plot lines beyond its emotional limit for the sake of tension and production longevity.

Take Andrea in season 3 for instance. In the beginning we see her establish a romantic relationship with the governor and buying into Woodbury. She remained a supporter after not heeding Michonne warning and even after finding out that the Governor had been holding maggie and glenn hostage. To compound the blunders, she betrayed her friends and refuse to assasinate the Governor in bed.

It is not argueable that the Governor is hell bent on taking over the prison so Andrea supposes "peace keeper" intentions would not of made any real difference in preventing the eventual bloodbath. When its all said and done, all Andrea did was aided the Governor, betrayed her friends, and got herself killed. There was not a whole lot to sympathize or even empathize with when she finally croak.

It was clear by the end of season 3 that Andrea and not the Governor, was the sacrificial Lamb. It was the writers job to stretch her character, no matter how egregious, to fit the billing. To accommendate, they drag the tension between the Governor and Ricks group all the way to mid season 4 and now we are left with no certainties and half a season left to go.

The Last thing a day time soap wants to do is create finality. It hurts me to say this but the producers of this show have a similar mindset.
 
F

FLUXCapacitor

Member
I thought it was a pretty solid episode. I am just happy they are back on the road because it is a much better show when they aren't holed up in one place for too long.
 
S

SamuraiX-

Member
Shipwrecked said:
RatskyWatsky, it is my humblest opinion that this show has lost its sense of direction since season 2.

This show has become, in George Romero words, a "day-time soap with zombies" by unnecessarily dragging serveral plot lines beyond its emotional limit for the sake of tension and production longevity.

Take Andrea in season 3 for instance. In the beginning we see her establish a romantic relationship with the governor and buying into Woodbury. She remained a supporter after not heeding Michonne warning and even after finding out that the Governor had been holding maggie and glenn hostage. To compound the blunders, she betrayed her friends and refuse to assasinate the Governor in bed.

It is not argueable that the Governor is hell bent on taking over the prison so Andrea supposes "peace keeper" intentions would not of made any real difference in preventing the eventual bloodbath. When its all said and done, all Andrea did was aided the Governor, betrayed her friends, and got herself killed. There was not a whole lot to sympathize or even empathize with when she finally croak.

It was clear by the end of season 3 that Andrea and not the Governor, was the sacrificial Lamb. It was the writers job to stretch her character, no matter how egregious, to fit the billing. To accommendate, they drag the tension between the Governor and Ricks group all the way to mid season 4 and now we are left with no certainties and half a season left to go.

The Last thing a day time soap wants to do is create finality. It hurts me to say this but the producers of this show have a similar mindset.
Click to expand...

The show has had three different showrunners in less than 4 seasons. Inconsistencies and new directions are to be expected. Although I'm certainly not gonna sit here and defend Mazzara's blatant character assassination of Andrea in Season 3. It almost makes me feel that he had something personal against the actress or something.

But yeah, we know Gimple is coming back in Season 5. I thought he did a fine job of salvaging the mess Mazzara left and now he's essentially starting with a clean slate in this back half. To those on the fence about the show, I urge you to give it at least 1.5 more seasons because by then it'll be all Gimple's vision and I fully expect he'll do the show the justice it deserves.
 
S

someday

Banned
SamuraiX- said:
I'm hoping they go clarify eventually, but I think it had something to do with Mike wanting to stay at whatever camp they were held up at that was mentioned in the dream sequence while Michonne was wise enough to know they had to leave... probably cost Mike and Terry their lives and same with Michonne's son.
Click to expand...

RatskyWatsky said:
All we know is that her lover, Mike, made a choice that resulted in the deaths of himself, their son, and her brother (or whoever the other guy was).
Click to expand...
Thanks for the answers!
toddhunter said:
I thought the episode was ... only ok. I went through looking for a "gif" moment but apart from the door there just isn't a lot happening.

I know Carl's behavior is realistic and justified...but that doesn't stop it being pretty uninteresting TV. If anything, characters acting exactly like they should in a given situation is often the worst thing to do...because I can already picture all that in my mind.
Click to expand...
And see, I prefer them to act realistically. It's incredibly frustrating when they don't. Last season was full of drama for the sake of drama and it made little sense why people were doing what they were doing. I hated that. I admit, I expected this episode since I read the comics, but I really thought they did this well. Both of these characters lost Lori and Judith (and Shane), not just Rick. We've spent an entire season and a half dealing with Rick's loss and basically ignored Carl's. We got one episode so far and I would think Carl's emotions would be even more complex than Rick's since he's a teenager and has absolutely no control over what's happening to those around him. Rick at least gets listened to.
 
D

Discotheque

Banned
RPGamer92 said:
They're not gonna kill Rick until the end of the series if at that. No way Carl could carry the show as the main character and ratings would dramatically drop if they did that.
Click to expand...

Who says either have to carry it at this point. They should just kill off the family and give Darryl (the shows most popular character I reckon) his leadership spot

That would have sounded dumb like 3 seasons ago but now he's grown up so it wouldn't be jarring

This season's best episode was easily carried by the governor (the one where he had that beard).

Change in status quo is needed. Rick and his son are lames
 
M

MonkeyKing

Member
I can't be mad at Cawrl anymore. He's telling the truth: were Rick a bit more ruthless, the prison AND Woodbury would both be standing. A lot if people would still be around. The kid has good standing to not give a fuck in public.
 
DoomGyver

DoomGyver

Member
You'd think that after everything this group has been through they would have had a plan in place on where to meet up if things went south at the prison.
 
N

nampad

Member
My Stockholm syndrom relationship with this series continues. I think it isn't good and still I keep watching it.

After half a season of not being annoyed by Carl (other characters easily picked up his slack though), he does a hell of a job to annoy me again. I really hope he dies soon but I am sure it won't happen. Also, Rick, one of the only not annoying characters in the show, would go crazy again, which was pretty annoying.
Michonnes backstory gets shoehorned in an episode after being ignored for such a long time also wasn't done well.
 
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