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[Krappadizzle]

White supremacy exists, and it exists in nearly every facet of American life. This ain't some fairy tale.

Like our Black President of the United States? Or Supreme Court Justice? Or the other positions of power that many POC hold?

To pretend that racism doesn't exist is ignorant and wrong. To act like you must live in terror and depression and be suspicious of everything that happens is just paranoid.

It's apparently ridiculous and yet no one here has provided a single contrary example. Funny how that works.

Because your question is hilariously awful and no answer would be satisfactory or could possibly provide enough proof for you to accept it.

 

[LionPride]

Like our Black President of the United States? Or Supreme Court Justice? Or the other positions of power that many POC hold?

To pretend that racism doesn't exist is ignorant and wrong. To act like you must live in terror and depression and be suspicious of everything that happens in is just paranoid.

You act like minorities being in positions of power solve everyday issues that we face on a daily basis

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Like our Black President of the United States? Or Supreme Court Justice? Or the other positions of power that many POC hold?

To pretend that racism doesn't exist is ignorant and wrong. To act like you must live in terror and depression and be suspicious of everything that happens in is just paranoid.

Come on son

Acknowledging that white supremacy permeates life in America, a country founded and expanded on manifest destiny and with slavery, genocide, and oppression, isn't paranoia.

And double come on son with using the Black President trap card

 

[lightskintwin]

Like our Black President of the United States? Or Supreme Court Justice? Or the other positions of power that many POC hold?

To pretend that racism doesn't exist is ignorant and wrong. To act like you must live in terror and depression and be suspicious of everything that happens in is just paranoid.

You have no idea what White Supremacy is. You can have Black people within powerful positions within that system upholding and maintaining the status quo.

 

[Nepenthe]

Like our Black President of the United States? Or Supreme Court Justice? Or the other positions of power that many POC hold?

A single President out of 44. Two black supreme court justices in the history of this country's judicial system. That's equality everyone.

You would be that person back in the day saying "Hey, Madam CJ Walker made it; what the fuck are you complaining about?"

To pretend that racism doesn't exist is ignorant and wrong. To act like you must live in terror and depression and be suspicious of everything that happens in is just paranoid.

Please stop projecting your fragility on me and acting like I live in fear of other races when nothing I've said in this topic thus far is in any way indicative of such a mindset.

Because your question is hilariously awful and no answer would be satisfactory or could possibly provide enough proof for you to accept it.

Apparently a single person who is in no way biased by the culture around them is impossible to provide.

 

[LionPride]

Come on son

Acknowledging that white supremacy permeates life in America, a country founded and expanded on manifest destiny and with slavery, genocide, and oppression, isn't paranoia.

And double come on son with using the Black President trap card

"Obama's president and everything's been hunky dory for ya." Not as if blacks, Asians, Hispanics/Latinos, Natives, any ethnic minority has to deal with a system of white supremacy and live within that system

 

[Henkka]

Is there a single black person in the US that had never had a subconscious thought against Asians? Is there a single Asian person in the US that has never had a subconscious thought against Hispanics? Does that mean they're all racist, too?

I don't have a problem with saying most people have subconscious biases. But to say it only applies to white people is wrong, imo.

 

[ThisGuy]

Also, I don't think GAF can take this one. I hate stopping discussion and I usually think race needs to be talked about more but I think it's just going to be a lot of yelling and fighting here.

True. I still get tripped up on the micro and macro side of the discussion. I think it stems from racism being one thing when I grew up and now it's turning into something else.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Speak for yourself, racist.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Honest question: Isn't saying all white people are racist a racist comment in itself?

 

[UrokeJoe]

Yeah I gotta go...

 

[Heavy_D206]

That teacher should be removed from their position if they honestly believe every single white person is racist.

It's an extremely gross over-exaggeration.

 

[Nepenthe]

I don't have a problem with saying most people have subconscious biases. But to say it only applies to white people is wrong, imo.

It's not that it only applies to white people. It's that it's necessary in the context of US race relations and colorblindness to lay this truth specifically at white people's feet. Similarly, black people talk to other black people about serious inter-community issues all the time, and usually any issues with these hard conversations isn't "Well, ALL people do this!"

Honest question: Isn't saying all white people are racist a racist comment in itself?

About as racist as saying black lives matter.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

wrong thread

 

[Sunster]

Oh man..

 

[Cindro]

Hopefully this dude is fired ASAP like he would be if he said this about literally any other group.

Casting aspersions on an entire race of humans based on nothing but the color of their skin is, gee, I don't know, the most basic brain-dead definition of racism?

This idea that racism needs to be solved by putting others down instead of bringing everybody else up is so backwards and ludicrous.

Yes, white privilege is a thing! Yes, it's a heinous aberration of justice that opportunities aren't equal across all people! No, shifting racism to a different group isn't the way to eliminate the problem!

 

[Cagey]

Or maybe offended white people should stop being deliberately obtuse about the context of these conversations when it's as obvious as burning cross in the night that the speaker is describing a hot-button American issue (although, let's not act like Europeans, Canadians, and Australians are some paragons of race relations either).

And again, show me a single white American that has never had a subconscious thought against a person of color, and I'll trade you my pink elephant.

I sincerely doubt you'd accept any person claiming to be that white American whose never had said thoughts because you've got a nice thesis and argument setup here: make claim impossible to prove, ask others to refute with impossible to provide evidence beyond anecdotal, shoot down said evidence with a "lol really? sure buddy.", march onwards feeling your prior rejection further proves your point, sit smugly at computer, sip a drink.

 

[Reptars Revenge]

Oh cool. Thank you white people who died protecting black people and fighting for equal rights, but you are still racist. Great people in history such as Richard Dillingham come to mind. Like cmon teacher pretend you have common sense.

 

[lightskintwin]

I sincerely doubt you'd accept any person claiming to be that white American whose never had said thoughts because you've got a nice thesis and argument setup here: make claim impossible to prove, ask others to refute with impossible to provide evidence beyond anecdotal, shoot down said evidence with a "lol really? sure buddy.", march onwards feeling your prior rejection further proves your point, sit smugly at computer, sip a drink.

Ok, i gotta admit, this is funny. LOL

 

[Nepenthe]

I sincerely doubt you'd accept any person claiming to be that white American whose never had said thoughts because you've got a nice thesis and argument setup here: make claim impossible to prove, ask others to refute with impossible to provide evidence beyond anecdotal, shoot down said evidence with a "lol really? sure buddy.", march onwards feeling your prior rejection further proves your point, sit smugly at computer, sip a drink.

It's impossible to prove because it's generally not psychologically or scientifically accepted that people totally and completely lack subconscious bias against groups that are different from them (or even sometimes groups to which they belong!), not because I've set up some sneaky little ban-bait logic trap for the sake of waving white guilt over anyone's head.

I will be smug with my iced tea tho'.

 

[Henkka]

It's not that it only applies to white people. It's that it's necessary in the context of US race relations and colorblindness to lay this truth specifically at white people's feet. Similarly, black people talk to other black people about serious inter-community issues all the time, and usually any issues with these hard conversations isn't "Well, ALL people do this!"

Ok. I don't think we disagree on the substance, more the wording. I think people are more receiving to something like

"Most people have subconscious biases entrenched in us by the culture that surrounds us. For white people, this can mean various negative biases against minority populations. It doesn't mean you're a racist, but it's something to be aware of and try to correct."

instead of

"All white people are racists and uphold white supremacy lmao"

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Honestly, I think I understand the context the teacher is using. Not that I think it is the right assessment but it's actually way more nuanced a look on race than I expect a high school teacher to present.

Edit: Oh, we aren't using any sort of powers of deduction and are just assuming there is no context. Got it.

Spoiler

Why is this concept so offensive to people?

 

[Nepenthe]

Ok. I don't think we disagree on the substance, more the wording. I think people are more receiving to something like

"Most people have subconscious biases entrenched in us by the culture that surrounds us. For white people, this can mean various negative biases against minority populations. It doesn't mean you're a racist, but it's something to be aware of and try to correct."

instead of

"All white people are racists and uphold white supremacy lmao"

People generally aren't receptive to the former statement because people literally do not believe in the idea of white privilege and institutional racism because the idea of a cultural issue inherently implicates everyone to some degree, and no one wants to be on the hook for others' suffering or be faced with hard introspection. Subsequently, I don't think white people as a whole are so fragile that they cannot handle truth that may be stated more bluntly than necessary. The most entertaining example I have of this is the Blue Eyes, Brown Eyes experiment. Put white people in an unexpected microcosm of societal racism and while some break down, leave, or don't get it, many others do get it. They gain the empathy necessary for building bridges due to the pain associated with direct experience and thus serve not to want to do it again.

 

[Puck Beaverton]

Ok. I don't think we disagree on the substance, more the wording. I think people are more receiving to something like

"Most people have subconscious biases entrenched in us by the culture that surrounds us. For white people, this can mean various negative biases against minority populations. It doesn't mean you're a racist, but it's something to be aware of and try to correct."

This is probably what the teacher meant, or I at least agree with this.

White people please stop hating yourselves it's weird.

 

[lightskintwin]

People generally aren't receptive to the former statement because people literally do not believe in the idea of white privilege and institutional racism because the idea of a cultural issue inherently implicates everyone to some degree, and no one wants to be on the hook for others' suffering for be faced with hard introspection. Subsequently, I don't think white people as a whole are so fragile that they cannot handle truth that may be stated more bluntly than necessary. The most entertaining example I have of this is the Blue Eyes, Brown Eyes experiment. Put white people in an unexpected microcosm of societal racism and while some break down, leave, or don't get it, many others do get it. They gain the empathy necessary for building bridges due to the pain associated with direct experience and thus serve not to want to do it again.

Bruh, I swear to God I was just about to post that Blue Eyes, Brown Eyes experiment. LOL

 

[King Kovu]

Wrong thread

 

[Nepenthe]

That's not self-hate, nor guilt, nor anything. It's understanding that there's a problem.

Bruh, I swear to God I was just about to post that Blue Eyes, Brown Eyes experiment. LOL

Great minds! =P

Also, cracking up at people posting debate reactions in here.

 

[DedValve]

Like our Black President of the United States? Or Supreme Court Justice? Or the other positions of power that many POC hold?

To pretend that racism doesn't exist is ignorant and wrong. To act like you must live in terror and depression and be suspicious of everything that happens is just paranoid.



Because your question is hilariously awful and no answer would be satisfactory or could possibly provide enough proof for you to accept it.

Are we talking about the same black president that had his potential cut off by a senate that would rather sit on their assess than respect the most powerful man in the country because he's still just a black man or did you mean bill?

 

[ThisGuy]

It's not that it only applies to white people. It's that it's necessary in the context of US race relations and colorblindness to lay this truth specifically at white people's feet. Similarly, black people talk to other black people about serious inter-community issues all the time, and usually any issues with these hard conversations isn't "Well, ALL people do this!"

I just quoted ishibear stating it should only apply to whites. And I thought you agreed?

 

[Nepenthe]

I just quoted ishibear stating it should only apply to whites. And I thought you agreed?

Didn't you also later come to understand that she's and most everyone else is talking about macro racism while you've concerned yourself with micro racism? Or am I missing something?

 

[ThisGuy]

Didn't you also later come to understand that she's and most everyone else is talking about macro racism while you've concerned yourself with micro racism? Or am I missing something?

I can't keep pace when this switches between the two.

Just give me some tea.

It's easy to accept only whites capable of it on a macro scale, but it is strange to think about it in the context of all whites being racist.

 

[Nepenthe]

I can't keep pace when this switches between the two.

Just give me some tea.

I have sweet tea if that's okay.

 

[Mattdaddy]

Lmfao this was my high school!

I graduated several years ago though.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

"Most people have subconscious biases entrenched in us by the culture that surrounds us. For white people, this can mean various negative biases against minority populations. It doesn't mean you're a racist, but it's something to be aware of and try to correct."

That doesn't really jump out and say "you need to recognize this shit" haha. I'm only kinda joking, when you address the concept of racism, as soon as you start going down the path of "well everyone has biases and . . . " you already lose the crowd. They've shaken off any responsibility because you've extended it so because everyone is responsible no one is responsible.

I wouldn't phrase this shit like the teacher did but there is a pretty explicit reason why it was done in this manner.

 

[Henkka]

People generally aren't receptive to the former statement because people literally do not believe in the idea of white privilege and institutional racism because the idea of a cultural issue inherently implicates everyone to some degree, and no one wants to be on the hook for others' suffering or be faced with hard introspection. Subsequently, I don't think white people as a whole are so fragile that they cannot handle truth that may be stated more bluntly than necessary. The most entertaining example I have of this is the Blue Eyes, Brown Eyes experiment. Put white people in an unexpected microcosm of societal racism and while some break down, leave, or don't get it, many others do get it. They gain the empathy necessary for building bridges due to the pain associated with direct experience and thus serve not to want to do it again.

Don't have a problem with that. I just think this discussion can be had without dropping accusations of racism and white supremacy. And it's not about protecting the feelings of fragile white people. It's about

1) Not watering down language. Racism brings to mind someone who wouldn't let their daughter date a black guy. White supremacy brings to mind the Nazis, KKK, lynchings and segregation. Most people are not for those things.

2) The pragmatics of convincing emotional, irrational humans of your cause. By putting people on the defensive, you instantly put up mental blocks in people's minds. The sad truth about humans is that we're incredibly bad at changing our minds. When presented with evidence for vaccinations, anti-vaxers become more convinced of them being harmful. If you want people to change their minds, you have to work around the weaknesses of human psychology, and to some extent, that involves being "nice" to them.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

I can't help but feel like the teacher could have explained this in a less inflammatory manner.

His theory is sound but I don't think it's strictly a racism issue. Humanity is psychologically preconditioned to judge those around them, sometimes inadvertently, but it's not down to skin color for everyone.

 

[ThisGuy]

I have sweet tea if that's okay.

It'll go nicely while thinking about this.

 

[terrdactycalsrock]

All white people have privilege, but there isn't a direct correlation between privilege and racism. Racism requires an extra step, even a very small one.


At least that is how I see it.

I would say thats a good summation. I would add that prejudice and discrimination are two very different things. Being prejudice means that you have a preconceived notion of how someone behaves, even though you dont know them. Discrimination is when you take those notions, and create an unfair environment for those that you have prejudices against.


We all have prejudices, it seems that people just naturally puts things into categories. There's probably many reasons we do that, and Im not quite sure I understand all of them. Anyways, prejudices seem to naturally form in our brain. I wont lie I will look at a coal miner who drives a big ass truck, and my first reaction will always to think of him as a dick. I've had that experience, and then I've met that person and we became friends. The more I got to know that person the more I relized that I had a bad representation in my head. I changed that beleif

We all have prejudices, and we all have some kind of privilege. Those things dont make us bad people, its what we do with those ideas that make us bad people

 

[Cartman86]

Teacher's are supposed to teach. They should be clear in what they are saying. This teacher wasn't even if we have an idea of what the intent was.

 

[TheGravemind]

All white people have privilege, but there isn't a direct correlation between privilege and racism. Racism requires an extra step, even a very small one.


At least that is how I see it.

bullshit

 

[dlauv]

He has a point.

The privileged people participate in the oppressing side of systemic racism even if they may be actively fighting against it.

I would think a high school is definitely not the fucking soap box for this rhetoric tho. That's just begging for trouble. Even then, he could have made the distinction between privilege and racism though. Racism infers condescension or objectification on some level rather than being an unwilling participant in systemic racism.

 

[LionPride]

bullshit

In America? Yeah, they do

 

[Matt]

bullshit

Of course they do. How is this even a question?

 

[besada]

bullshit

Could you explain why you disagree?

 

[SugarDave]

Irresponsible and dangerous way to speak to young people.

 

[ThisGuy]

bullshit

When it's just a community of whites, sure. But all of America isn't just whites. Whose on top of whites in America?

 

[Nepenthe]

Don't have a problem with that. I just think this discussion can be had without dropping accusations of racism and white supremacy. And it's not about protecting the feelings of fragile white people. It's about

1) Not watering down language. Racism brings to mind someone who wouldn't let their daughter date a black guy. White supremacy brings to mind the Nazis, KKK, lynchings and segregation. Most people are not for those things.

Using the terms "racism" and "white supremacy" in more nuanced sociological contexts outside of overt acts of evil does not water down the language. Rather, it expands the breadth of the conversation and brings it much closer in line to the experiences of racial minorities and the theories of sociologists. Indeed, I will say white America's success in coding "racist" as an insult on part with actual slurs is the actual issue here, and I don't feel comfortable in yielding the ground that much further because it makes the conversation that much more unnecessarily obtuse to have. It's like having an in-depth discussion about One Punch Man without ever saying Saitama.

2) The pragmatics of convincing emotional, irrational humans of your cause. By putting people on the defensive, you instantly put up mental blocks in people's minds. The sad truth about humans is that we're incredibly bad at changing our minds. When presented with evidence for vaccinations, anti-vaxers become more convinced of them being harmful. If you want people to change their minds, you have to work around the weaknesses of human psychology, and to some extent, that involves being "nice" to them.

As with the Blue Eyes Brown Eyes experiment, the goal is not to convince everyone. The goal is to convince just enough to make a political or cultural difference and to allow the stragglers to decide whether or not they want to be left behind. That has been the modus operandi for every single stride we've made in this country regarding the rights of ethnic minorities and until some deity says "enough!" it will continue to be that way. Anyone is allowed to walk away from a hard conversation because their emotions are on edge, but this doesn't necessarily mean everyone will (nor does it change the continuous demographic shifts that are gonna hurt like fuck if white people don't get their shit together now anyway). We should not make perfect the enemy of good here.

bullshit

Nope.

Irresponsible and dangerous way to speak to young people.

I'm reminded of the SNL Beyonce skit where it was rated G for black people and NC-17 for white people.

 

[LionPride]

When it's just a community of whites, sure. But all of America isn't just whites. Whose on top of whites in America?

More White People?

Checkmate

 

[Replicant]

Pessimism has nothing to do with reality. Study after study after study after study after study has concluded that cultural indoctrination works. Advertising and media influence works. White supremacy exists, and it exists in nearly every facet of American life. This ain't some fairy tale.



It's apparently ridiculous and yet no one here has provided a single contrary example. Funny how that works.



Where did I say that?

I'm sorry you feel that way and I can't discount your experience since i don't live in the US. But some of my good friends are white people and they are thoughtful and kind people.

But I don't know your experience.

 

[Sanojio]

It doesn't matter. Just stop blaming each other and start acting nicer towards each other.

I've lived in 3 different societies/countries and I've seen racism either committed to me or my friends. The racist are in those occasions were white people and at others time were POC.

So have I and as a fellow POC you should know by now that the best to hope for is a discussion. We don't live in some Eden. No one white or whoever was in power will willingly give up their privilege in this country even if it were possible. You cannot enforce tolerance or legislate acceptance.