rollingstart
Banned
-
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1UP Yours - 02/15/2008
- Thread starter AmericanNinja
- Start date
The negative comments about No More Heroes are heart-breaking.
I think that the overworld with the minigames and sidequests were very clearly flawed... I freely admit this. And I bitched quite a bit while playing the game about having to drive around to these various points and not being able to immediately retry the free fights or assassination missions... But the actual gameplay, the action sequences, were damn near perfect, I think. The bosses were different and fun.
And no I'm not just a fucking Wii fan looking for an action game, Shane. I have a PC and a 360 (and a PS2). I am not left wanting for action games. I just think No More Heroes has probably the best third-person action gameplay I've experienced in a long time. It may not have a ton of variety (on the trash, anyway, the bosses are fuckin' sweet), but it's just so satisfying.
And that's all I'll say.
I think that the overworld with the minigames and sidequests were very clearly flawed... I freely admit this. And I bitched quite a bit while playing the game about having to drive around to these various points and not being able to immediately retry the free fights or assassination missions... But the actual gameplay, the action sequences, were damn near perfect, I think. The bosses were different and fun.
And no I'm not just a fucking Wii fan looking for an action game, Shane. I have a PC and a 360 (and a PS2). I am not left wanting for action games. I just think No More Heroes has probably the best third-person action gameplay I've experienced in a long time. It may not have a ton of variety (on the trash, anyway, the bosses are fuckin' sweet), but it's just so satisfying.
And that's all I'll say.
instructions for owning The Boss:
When she rushes you let her come at you. Once she starts doing her cqc move press circle (i think) to reverse it and throw her to the ground. Follow this up by shooting her up. Outside of that sniper her like crazy. Having the snow camo helps, but if you don't have it wear the scientist disguise.
on a side note Shawn is one of the most level headed reviewers ever, the morons need to stop being morons :O
When she rushes you let her come at you. Once she starts doing her cqc move press circle (i think) to reverse it and throw her to the ground. Follow this up by shooting her up. Outside of that sniper her like crazy. Having the snow camo helps, but if you don't have it wear the scientist disguise.
on a side note Shawn is one of the most level headed reviewers ever, the morons need to stop being morons :O
Good show.
I was hope for more rumor mongering about GDC. We got some tidbits, but I wanted a little more.
Please don't let remarks made on GAF and other forums lurk in the back of your mind while you're doing the show, scream all you want Bryan. If you're irritating GAF, you're doing something right.
I was hope for more rumor mongering about GDC. We got some tidbits, but I wanted a little more.
Please don't let remarks made on GAF and other forums lurk in the back of your mind while you're doing the show, scream all you want Bryan. If you're irritating GAF, you're doing something right.
keeblerdrow
Member
Shawn is trying so. damn. hard to fight against the hyperbole on the 1upyours podcast. Every time someone makes an over the top statement, he calls them out on it. The person getting called out backpedals, sidesteps and changes the aim on the charge until someone else can bail them out by saying "Hey, let's keep moving. Next topic."
Totally hilarious. I love it. Keep that going, Shawn.
Totally hilarious. I love it. Keep that going, Shawn.
rollingstart
Banned
HK-47 said:
you have a point.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
Okay, nobody's bitch about Shane's comments on the LO shorts. I don't get how they're any more of a missuses of the format than cutscenes. It's the equivalent of saying films render books irrelevant, because cutscenes are nothing more than films, they don't involve any aspect of gameplay. He might have more of a point if they were dealing with aspects in the present, but how is a short story a more inferior method of telling a past event than a cutscene?
They're longer, less involving, less exciting, less accessible.Spirit of Jazz said:
I think his comment about how he wouldn't score a game higher for coming bundled with a copy of Moby Dick is spot on. It's basically the same thing. I'm sure they're very nice stories, but it's a complete misdirection of effort.
Technosteve
Banned
This is nothing like the gfw podcast threads, where the fuck are the funny pictures.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
aeolist said:
Explain how your points can't be applied to why films are superior to books, and refuted in a similar manner?
The Moby dick comment is bs, it's like saying MGS shouldn't be rated higher if it comes bundled with a John Woo flick. The simple fact is cutscenes add no more to the gameplay of a title than written text. The immersion they add to the game depends solely on their quality.
MrTroubleMaker
Gold Member
You did a great job Shawn.
It's not the same argument. You'd have to make the comparison between a movie and a movie that has long sections of scrolling text.Spirit of Jazz said:
I read, watch movies, and play games. I probably enjoy books more than the other two put together. But there's a time and a place and a mood for each one. I don't mind the very act of reading during a game, but long sections of text don't fill me with glee. Yes, it's optional and you don't have to read it, but you shouldn't count it towards the plot of the game because it's not part of the game.
I read when I want something that makes me visualize and keep track of more complex strings of narrative, and I play games when I want interactivity. Entries into those areas should play to their medium's strengths.
Edit: And I've made this point before but I'm not a fan of long cutscenes either. The few times I've tried to give the MGS series a chance I've been extremely annoyed by the super-long intros and tedious codec conversations.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
aeolist said:
A game isn't a movie, much less a slow moving JRPG which already features a huge amount of text in it's narrative anyway. Anyway, by your logic games should be games 100% if the time and cutscenes are just as detrimental as they take the player outside of gameplay.
"I read, watch movies, and play games. I probably enjoy books more than the other two put together. But there's a time and a place and a mood for each one. I don't mind the very act of reading during a game, but long sections of text don't fill me with glee. shouldn't count it towards the plot of the game because it's not part of the game"
Once again, cutscenes are no more a part of the game, you're not controlling anything, you're not playing it, it's not a game. A place and a mood for corny, flawed the the immaturity of the medium cutscenes would be action titles ala DMC, a place for short stories to expand on a characters past in the game would be a title where narrative takes a place above gameplay, say an RPG....
"I read when I want something that makes me visualize and keep track of more complex strings of narrative, and I play games when I want interactivity. Entries into those areas should play to their medium's strengths."
How do cutscenes provide any more interactivity than shorts? I really find it hard to talk about a mediums strength as a whole when the genre and design of the game totally alters what will work for it. You can't ask for the same thing from all games, you need to see what they do within their context.
"And I've made this point before but I'm not a fan of long cutscenes either. The few times I've tried to give the MGS series a chance I've been extremely annoyed by the super-long intros and tedious codec conversations."
Then don't you think you're being a little selfish here? Just because you don't enjoy a type of game, doesn't mean that a lot of people do. You can't argue that somethings detrimental to gaming when you're obviously not one of the people that would enjoy the genre of game whether it involved that element or not. Beyond that my comments were aimed at Shane, who has a hole lot of love for MGS and text heavy JRPGs.
(please forgive my lazy quoting)
I'm not being selfish, I'm stating my preference and what I think works best for the interactive gaming medium. There are people who want games to be more like movies or more like books, that's their thing. I think they should strive to evoke the same kinds of emotions that other art forms do but in their own unique way. I think there are ways that one could make an RPG and have the story conveyed by means other than cutscenes or short text stories.Spirit of Jazz said:
All I'm really saying is that I agree with Shane that the text bits should not be used as a positive point for the game or its plot. They're not a part of the game, they're short stories that are stored on the disc. It would be like shipping Halo 3 with Ghosts of Onyx and counting both when talking about the story in a review.
Woo-Fu
Banned
Eh, every console FPS pales compared to the best ones on PC. The people who give Resistance a lot of credit are people who are comparing it to other console FPS, not to the best of the PC FPS market.
Resistance is the first console FPS I've enjoyed enough to finish since GoldenEye...
Resistance is the first console FPS I've enjoyed enough to finish since GoldenEye...
BrodiemanTTR
Member
Johnkers said:
I imagine N'Gai saying this in a mock nerd voice. :lol
gray_fox224
Junior Member
.sp0rsk said:
dr3upmushroom
Banned
Good show. I found it funny how quiet Shawn was during NPD.
Tieno
Member
It really makes no sense for Sudo to replace CliffyB as the guy doing the interviews for Gears. Cliffy loves doing that shit and is actually pretty good at that and nice to look at. Unless Cliffy has no time for that cause he's too busy.
I thought he'd be kind of like that MS guy we saw in the MTV special.
I thought he'd be kind of like that MS guy we saw in the MTV special.
Tieno
Member
The discussion on narrative was very interesting. Helped me understand the DICE pannel with Ken Levine, Ray from Bioware and the guy from Harmonix on the exact same thing (at the end of the video you can even see Shane and Cesare, when Dennis Dyack asks a question).
http://www.gamespot.com/video/extras/dice08.html?sid=6186093
In retrospective, it feels weird and people seem kind of stuck in their old ways whenever someone mentions story or narative and people talk about a game heavy on cutscenes. When story can be told in a much more unique way that takes way more advantage of the medium.
I have difficulty with this myself and not always thinking of story=putting down controller and watching a movie. In that sense it's hard and almost futile to compete with a (good) movie, especially content wise. But the way a story can be told in a game can be very interesting. It's almost like being IN a story, than watching a story. In that sense I found the example of ICO most telling. I always found that I grew attached to Yorda through playing the game (N'Gai mentioning the animations) instead of watching something.
http://www.gamespot.com/video/extras/dice08.html?sid=6186093
In retrospective, it feels weird and people seem kind of stuck in their old ways whenever someone mentions story or narative and people talk about a game heavy on cutscenes. When story can be told in a much more unique way that takes way more advantage of the medium.
I have difficulty with this myself and not always thinking of story=putting down controller and watching a movie. In that sense it's hard and almost futile to compete with a (good) movie, especially content wise. But the way a story can be told in a game can be very interesting. It's almost like being IN a story, than watching a story. In that sense I found the example of ICO most telling. I always found that I grew attached to Yorda through playing the game (N'Gai mentioning the animations) instead of watching something.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
I like how they made the point that part of the story in Yakuza is the fact that you're just running around the city. Which falls under my personal view on them, the story in a game is not just cutscenes or the dialogue characters are having with one another, but you as the a character in the game walking around in a jungle, or having a shoot out in some battlefield (I think this is what Shawn was getting at too).Tieno said:
Great line up and one of the best 1up yours for ages, tho I wish some of the topics and points were round up a little more other than just moving on.
Shawn is a great new addition, loved the fact he called out the Resistance hype wagon and introduced more why questions.
N Gai great as always taking the topics in another way and bringing up more related side topics (same as Shawn).
In time I hope Garnet loosens the podcast to a little more freeflow to suit this style and not the other way round.
Shane & Bryan were a little quite on this one too, hope to here more debate and less politness.
CANT WAIT FOR NEXT WEEKS SETS!
Shawn is a great new addition, loved the fact he called out the Resistance hype wagon and introduced more why questions.
N Gai great as always taking the topics in another way and bringing up more related side topics (same as Shawn).
In time I hope Garnet loosens the podcast to a little more freeflow to suit this style and not the other way round.
Shane & Bryan were a little quite on this one too, hope to here more debate and less politness.
CANT WAIT FOR NEXT WEEKS SETS!
dr3upmushroom
Banned
Whenever Bryan gets loud he gets a lot shit for it.Gowans007 said:
Shawn used DMC as an example of bad cinematic cut scenes? What's wrong....I mean, why doesn't he go back to rip off somethingawful.com skits or something?
(I am not saying everybody has to appreicate DMC's camppy humor, but Shawn Elliot's entire reputation was based on camppy, irrelevant, bad-tasted jokes, he has no position to complain DMC's cheesy cut scenes.)
(I am not saying everybody has to appreicate DMC's camppy humor, but Shawn Elliot's entire reputation was based on camppy, irrelevant, bad-tasted jokes, he has no position to complain DMC's cheesy cut scenes.)
Still have the NPD/news section to listen to but so far this show is top notch. I loved the discussion on storytelling in the medium and the interaction in the fivesome has been great so far. This new regular cast will go on to do great things I'm sure. First show and very interesting discussion already. Oh and N'Gai is awesome as usual.
Oh and I disagree with Shane on MGS3 being perfect (or whatever he said) in the storytelling aspect. I once typed this longass post about it in a SE thread but it boils down to the matter of the Boss as a character. I didn't feel the emotional discharge Kojima was fishing for at all in the end, because I had no connection at all to the Boss. I'll take the over-the-top wackiness of 2's ending over the tearjerk 'she was a real hero, Snake! ending of 3.
Oh and I disagree with Shane on MGS3 being perfect (or whatever he said) in the storytelling aspect. I once typed this longass post about it in a SE thread but it boils down to the matter of the Boss as a character. I didn't feel the emotional discharge Kojima was fishing for at all in the end, because I had no connection at all to the Boss. I'll take the over-the-top wackiness of 2's ending over the tearjerk 'she was a real hero, Snake! ending of 3.
TheGreatDave
Banned
tino said:
What?
nesmar said:
Really? Like "I don't get why you guys are hyped for Resistance 2 because R1 was mediocre. I played a bit of the SP and didn't care to play MP", though the game is known more for it's MP? Then throw in about Crysis? Right, well maybe bring up Bioshock and I'll nod and agree. You're with a media outlet company that does reviews on games, at least play something before dismissing it like that. The MP in R1 is still the measuring stick for console online mp, and it'll put up a good argument against stuff on the PC simply for how well it runs. I always said that PC games ran better due to dedicated servers and stuff, and suggested that they were king, then Resistance hit and now that wall between consoles and PC online mp has become nothing more than a patch of fog.
Wow, that segment about story telling, I have no idea what to say. I love in depth stories to games, and I particularly like the way the stories are told in the MGS series. A good game with a good story becomes a better game, while a good game with no story is still just a good game.
But, as usual, N'Gai rocks. One of the best spoken people in the industry no doubt, as well as one of the most knowledgeable, which explains why he gets these hands ons so early.
Finally, GREAT show as it's been for the past couple weeks. And I can't wait to catch the rest of the specials this week.
Skip, please get Adam Sessler on the show, I'm really curious to see how knowledgeable he really is and how he'd handle himself on there... :lol
And, hi Shane! Just come out and post already, better yet, start a thread. I'm curious how many pages of replies would instantly stack up on here.
Great show, Bummer Jaffe wont be making the podtacular podtravaganza of podcast programming perfection next week.
Especially enjoyed Shawns calling 'em all out on the R2 fapping.... "OMIGOD you got to play R2, et al". Man that was cringe-worthy. I would understand if it was a game like Fable 2 or MGS4 or GTA4 or something. But Resistance 2? Give me a break.
Especially enjoyed Shawns calling 'em all out on the R2 fapping.... "OMIGOD you got to play R2, et al". Man that was cringe-worthy. I would understand if it was a game like Fable 2 or MGS4 or GTA4 or something. But Resistance 2? Give me a break.
voltron said:
Can't you want both? I was probably one of the few people that enjoyed the first Fable despite that it didn't meet all the original promises. I really look forward to Fable 2, will have it pre-ordered, but 8-player co-op sounds rather interesting as well as how are they going to contain 60players, not to mention these "interesting info'z" N'Gai knows about the game that he can't speak of yet.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
voltron said:
I can. After the overhyped over promised and under delivered Fable, i'll wait until the game is shipped and reviewed before i pay any interest.
Insomniac has way more cred in my eyes right now and I'm really pumped about Resistance 2. Resistance's popularity seems to rise and fall in cycles, it stared off real low, but then a core of fans start really shouting the praise, so that makes it seem too high, etc. But for me its one of my favorite console FPS games. It might be a tad overrated on GAF, but there's a clan that STILL is playing the game nonstop so of course they'll be super pumped (and the fact the online community is still super strong for a launch title is a good indicator too). Overall i'd say the game is a tad underrated, because not enough people have played it. It is a game that truly gets better and better as it progresses. And the multiplayer never gets mentioned with the "big boys" in the genre and i think it should...especially for console FPSes
You realize that Shawn's played practically every console FPS in existence, right? He's not comparing Resistance to the best of PC FPSs - why would he have used his 8/10 Crysis example instead of his 10/10 HL2 Episode Two example if that was the case?Woo-Fu said:
He didn't dismiss the entire game for fuck's sake. He said time and time again that he was talking solely about the single player. Read his posts earlier in this thread. And if you think that Resistance 1's multiplayer now puts it ahead of PC multiplayer games, you're only kidding yourself. Online multiplayer nothing more than a patch of fog? :lol :lol Read up, kid: http://archive.gamespy.com/stats/J-Rzez said: