Arpharmd B
Banned
Ok MS WHAT THE FECK?!?!?
Turtles and Street Fighter 2 are two of your biggest sellers on arcade you jackasses.
The fact we could have had a slew of Cave shooters on 360! DIE MS!!!
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5pb - 'XBLA rejected Ketsui and Dodonpachi'
- Thread starter Rlan
- Start date
Ok MS WHAT THE FECK?!?!?
Turtles and Street Fighter 2 are two of your biggest sellers on arcade you jackasses.
The fact we could have had a slew of Cave shooters on 360! DIE MS!!!
I understand now, they only release one shitty game a week because if they released real games then these shitty ones, which I'm sure they are getting a high royalty payment on, won't sell in comparison to the others.
What the fuck is happening to gaming? I love my 360 but big business shit like this needs to get out.
What the fuck is happening to gaming? I love my 360 but big business shit like this needs to get out.
waiting for someone to come in and start listing off games and etc.
Game design, same as any other game? Cave is constant adrenaline rush and beautifully designed bullet patterns. Triggerheart is a notch below that, but gets an unfairly raw deal for some reason. I like the anchor gimmick, and the bosses (at least the tougher versions) have some awesome patterns going on. This definitely is not a "why are we getting a shitty game instead of awesomeness" situation, even though bitter people want to make it out to be just that.soldat7 said:
I'd say it's impossible simply because Triggerheart really hasn't been on the service that long. The corporate machine doesn't move that fast. I think the problem is the older ports.Tain said:
I think Konami's and Namco's are mostly fine, but I think Midway's shitty ports with busted-ass netcode, broken achievements, retarded leaderboards, etc, really put a dent in XBLA's retro game rep. Actually, letting Konami make some very strange choices probably didn't help either. I mean, Scramble and Time Pilot? They're not bad games at all, but they're pretty dated, not even that famous anymore and Konami has hundreds of much bigger classics to choose from.
In retrospect, I think we thought that it was supposed to only be the warm-up but now that we see that it wasn't, it was a very strange choice letting the retro companies launch all these relatively obscure arcade games when they should've come out swinging with the heavy-hitters.
There are japanese publishers on XBLA. Konami and Namco are two, of course. Konami has always had shmup love, but they might not want to champion other companies' games when they don't even have their own stalwart franchises on XBLA yet.h0l211 said:
Natsume, however, published Omega Five and if you play that game, it's clear that everybody involved adores the shmup genre to death. They would've jumped on that shit if they had been offered. Also, Arika has put out a couple of Tetrises for 360 (or is it just one?) and they would suck Cave's dick if asked. I think 5pb might've missed this route (if it even is a viable one).
Relevant to this thread? He would've been the one to reject the games in this case. (In this case, though, I'd assume it was because of a new rule from the suits.)xbhaskarx said:
permutated
Banned
Shard said:
Triggerheart was incredibly generic.
Omega Five is AWESOME.
Space Runaway
Member
Damn reading this news was really depressing. Not only because they fucked us out of shmup ports but also the news that they're cutting back on the xbla arcade ports.
While I enjoy the new original games I really liked having arcade ports with online play and leadersboards. Yes there were a lot of shitty choices for classic xbla releases but I always felt that would over time lead to releases of the better games and now...who knows.
While I enjoy the new original games I really liked having arcade ports with online play and leadersboards. Yes there were a lot of shitty choices for classic xbla releases but I always felt that would over time lead to releases of the better games and now...who knows.
So all it seems to take for GAF to admit that there is a huge problem with the XBLA approval and distribution system is for a niche Japanese bullet-hell title or two to be disqualified from XBLA release?
Not the quote after quote after quote of developers saying that it's a pain in the ass, or that they're getting jerked around, or the BOHICA DLC policy, etc etc etc.
No.... it took a few completely obscure games that almost no one has heard of being denied release. And had 5pb said nothing, you'd all still be under the misguided notion that developers decrying XBLA are "full of shit".
It's like GAF is schizophrenic or something. XBLA is beyond criticism one moment, total shit the next. Oh well...
Not the quote after quote after quote of developers saying that it's a pain in the ass, or that they're getting jerked around, or the BOHICA DLC policy, etc etc etc.
No.... it took a few completely obscure games that almost no one has heard of being denied release. And had 5pb said nothing, you'd all still be under the misguided notion that developers decrying XBLA are "full of shit".
It's like GAF is schizophrenic or something. XBLA is beyond criticism one moment, total shit the next. Oh well...
"God's Beard!"
Member
Terrell said:
No one cares about war until there's a draft.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
God's Beard said:
The only people that know about Dodonpachi in the west are...well...the people on GAF.
Coming out as a fleshed out retail product could actually prove to be more advantageous. You need to take a breath...or conversely; hold your breath until you pass out and stop posting.
kaching said:
No, no it isn't the straw that broke the camels back since this kind of negative attitude has been literally all month, this is just another bit of angst for the pile. Though here is the amazing thing, for every XBLA is totally shit, hate you MS , you got on the other side of the coin, when good news is uncovered, (like Ikaruga and Mr. Driller Online release dates) it is all yes, yes, XBLA is the greatest, Microsoft is a golden god. It really a mood swing mentality towards the extreme with no middle ground.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
avatar299 said:
Yes but depending on their launch window as well as price point, coupled with some positive reviews...it could do very well.
XBLA is pretty saturated with arcade shooters at the moment and maybe MS is already feeling a bit antsy about Ikaruga?
Yes, it is possible that Dodonpachi would do well. Anything is possible but do people seriously believe that it's going to do so well that MS needs to get behind it and splash it up on XBLA?
MS has the hardcore gamer end covered and I can't see too many casual gamers chomping at the bit to buy Dodonpachi.
Psychotext
Member
Then there would be a million more complaints about too many games on XBLA... not being able to see what's good or not, too much like retail etc etc.D-X said:
They're pretty much damned no matter what they do.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
I blame Jeff Minter.
Psychotext
Member
Yet pretty much everyone has been complaining about it.D-X said:
Psychotext
Member
Yeah... I'm anal about the way I write my posts sometimes. Too many people nitpicking on choice of words. :lol
Dude no, just no. A bullet hell shooter put to retail today would fucking die. It's a genre even more niche than adventure games. Cave would see far more expenses going retail than just digital downloads so even if the game got some hype, it would be a huge stretch fro them to make any profit, much less more profit that way than digital.bigdaddygamebot said:
How is that a mood swing? Sensibly you try to condition these companies to understand the kind of actions appreciated by their customers. Mood swings implies contradictory behavior but where's the contradiction in being happy about the release of Ikaruga and utterly disappointed by the rejection of something like Dodonpachi (and many others, apparently)?Shard said:
I think he's chosen the wrong method of explanation. Upon reflection, it's not that GAF is schizophrenic... it's childishly selfish instead. People here don't legitimately care about the industry, they only care about what they want.kaching said:
Developers mouth off about XBLA?? The common response to a developer's suffering over the service is "**** THEM", followed by any method possible to discredit them, be it "anonymity means they're pussies" or "hyperbole means their opinion's shit"... whatever works.
But now... MS has hurt GAF, it's taken away something they love. So now, of course, XBLA must be burned to the ground.
I see the difference now. It's so very clear.
Slavik81 said:
This is a very good approach to things, the problem really is that a lot of folks, like this thread is a very good example, tend to get irrational and emotive and lose true perspective of the situation. Sensibility and rationality are being thrown out the window in favor of sheer insanity and selfishness.
MightyHedgehog
Member
You're talking about a hardcore genre and some of the most anticipated home versions of some of the most hardcore games in that genre. GAF has many of the most hardcore gamers that are hardcore in their support and posting on these types of games. In other words, the subject matter is fucking hardcore. Don't expect anything soft and fuzzy from these characters.
MightyHedgehog said:
Obviously this is the case, but all it is really amounting to is just a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing. Nobody is going to get fired over this choice, the game still are not going to come to the XBLA or PSN (Maybe WiiWare, who knows). The thing that has been forgotten is that the publisher has already chosen a new course, Xbox 360 Retail and that isn't going to suddenly change.
MightyHedgehog
Member
I agree. I still think that, if there's a substantial and consistently vocal userbase who would be interested in them, and the terms of licensing are favorable, you'll see these games released outside of Japan eventually. Perhaps in a year or so when the userbase seems to be able to safely support such niche stuff and a smaller publisher, like a D3, Agetec, or XSEED is successful in getting it done. Bullet-hell games are pretty damned niche within the shmup genre and that's probably why these aren't up to bat outside of Japan for now or approved for XBLA.Shard said:
Peronthious
Member
MightyHedgehog said:
It's not just that they rejected Ketsui and Dodonpachi; Microsoft summarily turned down any possibility of more direct arcade ports on XBLArcade. All they want the service to do is push new products, and to not clog it with ports of older titles.
Peronthious said:
Well, the key word here is direct arcade ports, which incidentally is something they have always dissuaded against, here is another question, why didn't the publisher and the developer want to add to these ports, remake them in high-def and other such accouterments. Honestly, from the way the original article is presented, the original plan sounds like they were just going to flood the XBLA with a lot of laziest of the lazy ports.
Well, Agies Wing aside, Micosoft apparently does actually feel that way about direct ports. This is all beside the point for the crucial question has not been answered yet. The key word is direct arcade ports, Microsoft has never liked direct arcade ports, little known fact, none of the retro titles are direct ports, not even the really lazy Midway and Namco stuff, at the very least a retro title must have wide-screen, achievements, and leaderboards, and most of these ports also add things like the filter mode or online co-op, that is not direct porting.
so why didn't 5pb and/or Cave want to instead of taking Ketsui and Dodonpachi games to retail to "teach Microsoft a lesson" at the very least try to conform to these standards?
so why didn't 5pb and/or Cave want to instead of taking Ketsui and Dodonpachi games to retail to "teach Microsoft a lesson" at the very least try to conform to these standards?
I think you're reading into their comment about porting completely wrong. First, they don't refer to what they're doing as a "direct" port, they just indicate they're porting their games. Second, the reference to "faithful arcade ports" is actually a paraphrase of Microsoft's statement to them, referring to games already released on XBLA that have obviously all been subject to a number of standard additions beyond a literal "direct" port.
5qb isn't saying anything about attempting to dodge the TRC for XBLA releases. There's no evidence of that in this passage, at least.
5qb isn't saying anything about attempting to dodge the TRC for XBLA releases. There's no evidence of that in this passage, at least.
Perhaps, perhaps not, the wording is a bit vague, the wording of "cutting down faithful arcade ports" makes it sound like a different issue entirely, size constraints but we may never know all of the details. All that is for certain is that the titles got rejected, (I wondered if they got rejected twice?) 5db decided to go retail, and the chance of these games coming to the west are bleak, depressing and irritating but that is the unchangeable reality.
Thiskaching said:
and this.God's Beard said:
Seriously though, what is the reasoning behind this. Even if they only saw $12 profit from the venture that's $12 they would not have had. I understand they feel they need to have achievements etc to sell games but WTH? Why would you say no to this? The risk is negligible and only really a worry in terms of maximising profit, not ensuring there is one. It's like someone offering you $5 for nothing and you reject it because it's not $10.
The reasoning some people are giving about complaints about too many arcade ports is silly. How can having more choices ever be bad. Sure some people may complain about the poor ports. So do better ones, not less.
I'm really not understanding MS, Sony, or Nintendo when it comes to their DD efforts. Bring on the physical media future?
Well, we don't really know what the full rationale here is, fuck, it is like smashing your head on a brick wall repeatedly. I have already floated the ideas of laziness, size constraints, hell it could have been just named value, some fucker in Redmond not knowing what these games are and rejecting them out of obscurity. Here is a question of my own, and an interesting one, why is Microsoft still allowing these games on disc?
What other interpretations are there other than they want to slow the release of faithful arcade ports, which XBLA has a lot of? As he said, most of them have a lot of features added. (And some don't.)Shard said:
Why wouldn't they? With XBLA they control the delivery service.Shard said:
Mr_Furious
Member
I'm fine with being denied Cave lovin on XBLA just as long as the retail version of both games hits the states in a timely manner. But if I get denied these games in the U.S. outright I'm going to curl up in the corner and cry like a little girl then after I gain back my composure I'm going to go snap my fucking Crackdown disc in half in disgust.
