ViewtifulJC
Banned
story?????
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6 Months Later: How do you feel about The Phantom Pain's Story?
- Thread starter Nintendoga
- Start date
SkylineRKR
Member
If only MGSV was called Peace Walker 2. Its nothing more, nothing less. And sort of baffling as it was a game for an ill fated handheld.
Bartholomuse
Member
In short, I didn't really feel anything about the story. I didn't feel disappointed, I didn't feel betrayed I didn't even feel bored. Just nothing. The story seems like such an after thought and a desperate attempt to tie it in the MGS canon that it just feels like Star Wars EU grade stuff.
I'm convinced Kojima just wanted to make a new type of stealth action game and the only way to get it funded was to stick Metal Gear on it. My feelings about the gameplay though? It's the best stealth game I've played since Splinter Cell Chaos Theory. It envisions the scenario of being an operative in enemy territory better than almost any game I've ever played.
There's only one thing which kind of surprises me about the story, is that so much of the major beats showed up in trailers. Not just a small few, like 3/4 of the games story is telegraphed in trailers going as far back 2013. Like seriously, it makes you wonder about how the fuck the game was developed. One of the final scenes in the game was shown in the GDC2013 announcement trailer. Were the story and cutscenes completed like super early or something?
I'm convinced Kojima just wanted to make a new type of stealth action game and the only way to get it funded was to stick Metal Gear on it. My feelings about the gameplay though? It's the best stealth game I've played since Splinter Cell Chaos Theory. It envisions the scenario of being an operative in enemy territory better than almost any game I've ever played.
There's only one thing which kind of surprises me about the story, is that so much of the major beats showed up in trailers. Not just a small few, like 3/4 of the games story is telegraphed in trailers going as far back 2013. Like seriously, it makes you wonder about how the fuck the game was developed. One of the final scenes in the game was shown in the GDC2013 announcement trailer. Were the story and cutscenes completed like super early or something?
Vital Tundra
Member
Still complete shit. Although I must say I enjoy the implications Venom Snake not actually being Big Boss has on the story.
RevolverRoden
Member
Anyone who blames the story on Konami and not Kojima needs to get a grip.
That said I think its a decent story. Has some cool themes. Cool scenes. I like mission 43 and Paz's story. It just needed more of that. It showed "BB become a demon" in an interesting way.
But the trailers made it seem better than it was. Same thing with Rising. That last Kojima trailer for Rising made it seem like an emotional and serious story, when it really was the exact opposite. Can't say I wasn't disappointed at first. Not what I expected at all from the last MGS game. Still it wasn't bad
Kojima makes better trailers than games.
What I REALLY want to know is how much was cut from the game. Is the game really unfinished or is that just what Kojima fanboys in denial like to say.
That said I think its a decent story. Has some cool themes. Cool scenes. I like mission 43 and Paz's story. It just needed more of that. It showed "BB become a demon" in an interesting way.
But the trailers made it seem better than it was. Same thing with Rising. That last Kojima trailer for Rising made it seem like an emotional and serious story, when it really was the exact opposite. Can't say I wasn't disappointed at first. Not what I expected at all from the last MGS game. Still it wasn't bad
Kojima makes better trailers than games.
What I REALLY want to know is how much was cut from the game. Is the game really unfinished or is that just what Kojima fanboys in denial like to say.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
I liked it. The twist was poorly executed but does make the story much more interesting upon reflection.
I let this dude doing the work for me, totally nailed what MGSV is:
https://youtu.be/e4fjtS_Etvk?t=40m32s
https://youtu.be/e4fjtS_Etvk?t=40m32s
Melkezadek
Member
I enjoyed it very much, but I can understand why other don't.
I liked the way the story was told with less cutscenes and I love getting all the details from the cassette tapes.
Couple that with the fantastic gameplay, it's basically the Dark Souls of the franchise.
If we had actually gotten the whole game, it would have been perfect.
I liked the way the story was told with less cutscenes and I love getting all the details from the cassette tapes.
Couple that with the fantastic gameplay, it's basically the Dark Souls of the franchise.
If we had actually gotten the whole game, it would have been perfect.
family_guy
Member
The story had no soul.
SkylineRKR
Member
I think everything was shown. We did see the opening, Skull Face phantom, quiet torture, huey torture, capture of Sahelanthropus (salute and chapter 2 speech), face washing, mother base genocide, child soldiers cage, brilliant car ride, Liquid being possessed... heck, we saw the final boss battle with Rebenok guiding it in the release trailer. And we saw Camp Omega torture scenes that didn't make it.
ShooterMcGavin
Member
Incredible potential. Mediocre execution.
The opening was fun. I was intrigued.
Enjoyed the gameplay up until the base building became required.
By that point, the gameplay had been propelling me forward. 40 hours in and suddenly I had no desire to finish the game. Also, by that time, GAF had made it abundantly clear that the ending was rubbish, so I didn't waste my time.
And off to Halo 5 I went.
Enjoyed the gameplay up until the base building became required.
By that point, the gameplay had been propelling me forward. 40 hours in and suddenly I had no desire to finish the game. Also, by that time, GAF had made it abundantly clear that the ending was rubbish, so I didn't waste my time.
And off to Halo 5 I went.
Mexen
Member
Best game play ever though. If you take away the repetitive missions. Man, what fluid mechanics.
Kojima-san or Konami really should just apologize to us because like brau said the story is too thin for us to fill the gaps the way we are presented with it. It's inexcusable.
We are practically saying developers can get away with non-delivery because we hardcore fans will read in between the meta narrative lines and write theses on why yet another masterpiece has graced us.
Le sigh ( ._.)
Kojima-san or Konami really should just apologize to us because like brau said the story is too thin for us to fill the gaps the way we are presented with it. It's inexcusable.
We are practically saying developers can get away with non-delivery because we hardcore fans will read in between the meta narrative lines and write theses on why yet another masterpiece has graced us.
Le sigh ( ._.)
The thing that really pisses me off is that the story is basically fucking filler.
We could've gotten an interesting story about Big Boss and how he became this fallen hero who succumbed to his anger and twisted idea of what the Boss wanted and how he created his own nation (which would be a perfect way of ending the series and connecting Big Boss arc with Solid Snake's). Instead it's about this retconned worthless medic clone that was duped into doing unimportant shit in Afghanistan and Africa that doesn't amount to anything in the MGS saga.
Just thinking about this makes me mad, fuck...
We could've gotten an interesting story about Big Boss and how he became this fallen hero who succumbed to his anger and twisted idea of what the Boss wanted and how he created his own nation (which would be a perfect way of ending the series and connecting Big Boss arc with Solid Snake's). Instead it's about this retconned worthless medic clone that was duped into doing unimportant shit in Afghanistan and Africa that doesn't amount to anything in the MGS saga.
Just thinking about this makes me mad, fuck...
Strangelove77
Member
It's ok. I like what little is there, even if I'm not a huge fan of the twist.
I suppose it being one of the best games I've ever played makes up for it. I still play it a little now.
I suppose it being one of the best games I've ever played makes up for it. I still play it a little now.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
I don't know. I stopped playing after Konami made MP part of the SP experience. Was there a story until then? Not really.
thomastehbest1
Banned
I thought mgsv we got was basically an outline of the story. We got all the major plot points but without any of the presentation, themes, character development, or foreshadowing the first 4 games had. Basically, It just wasn't finished. It needed about another 3-6 hours of cut scenes to flesh everything out. Kojima was too ambitious and ran out of time and money to make the story as full as it should have been. In the end he finished the gameplay and got the voice actors to record audio and put in as radio tapes. I think with another year of development to flesh out the story it would have been the greatest game of all time.
I wasn't disappointed in the story, more so that we didn't get the full fleshed out kojima story we all wanted. The big boss/venom twist was a really good idea in my opinion. It breathed life into the old metal gear games. I just wanted codec calls, movie length cut scenes and plot twist after plot twist to keep my head spinning.
I wasn't disappointed in the story, more so that we didn't get the full fleshed out kojima story we all wanted. The big boss/venom twist was a really good idea in my opinion. It breathed life into the old metal gear games. I just wanted codec calls, movie length cut scenes and plot twist after plot twist to keep my head spinning.
But we already know that, it's called MGS Peace Walker... I'm glad Kojima doesn't delivered what people want him to do though...
If Kojima was still employed at Konami, some little part of me would be still waiting for a "true" MGS5 thinking the V was deliberately a misdirect as none of the other games used roman numerals.
I'm still as disappointed with the story/structure of the game as back then. In fact, when topics come up about ranking MGS games, I often even end up forgetting about this game, despite it being so recent.
I'm still as disappointed with the story/structure of the game as back then. In fact, when topics come up about ranking MGS games, I often even end up forgetting about this game, despite it being so recent.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
I'm fine with it. The game does sort of feel like a sidestory and not a conclusion to the series, narratively, but after MGS4 and Peace Walker, I can't say the Metal Gear canon interests me much anymore.
Definitely the best game in the series by a fair margin.
Definitely the best game in the series by a fair margin.
RevolverRoden
Member
Kojima showed everything in the trailers. Literally every cutscene was shown across all those trailers.
We actually even got more scenes in the trailers than in the game (camp omega interrogation, Snake yelling,etc)
We actually even got more scenes in the trailers than in the game (camp omega interrogation, Snake yelling,etc)
Bartholomuse
Member
Maybe the fox engine was in a complete enough state in 2012 / 13 where they could start making cut-scenes and little else. There isn't a fraction of the real time cut-scenes present in V that there is in the other Metal Gears. Which would be bad enough on it own, but in V those small few cut-scenes are spread over 40 hours. There's absolutely no way that Kojima didn't know how bad the whole thing looked.
I would pay anything for a tell all insider account of how the fuck this game was made. It really makes you wonder how much of the game was actually complete when they announced it back in early 2013 (late 2012 technically) Having seen the content issues in V, it also retroactively paints Ground Zeros in a strange light. I imagine Kojima didn't want GZ to be seperate from V, since the material in GZ is actually some of the best he's done in years.
MGSV is so, so strange.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
If I think about it for too long, I get angry.
The fact that kojima spent that long in development with zero restraints and this is the story he wanted to tell? The man himself said the game was delayed by six months after he asked for it. It wasn't unfinished or rushed. Thus, this poorly told character assasinating piece of shit story lies directly at the feet of that man's 'vision'
The fact that kojima spent that long in development with zero restraints and this is the story he wanted to tell? The man himself said the game was delayed by six months after he asked for it. It wasn't unfinished or rushed. Thus, this poorly told character assasinating piece of shit story lies directly at the feet of that man's 'vision'
swearing-circle
Member
Love it in hindsight for a lot of the themes like the ones in the OP. I enjoyed how BB became a reprehensible character by using Venom the way the US used the Boss.
The presentation is the issue with the game. I actually really liked the less is more approach but the pacing was off. Chapter 2 shouldn't have been titled as such and the replay missions shouldn't have been in the same tab as the main missions.
But yeah. I loved the themes of the game and it's still infinitely better than the fan-service garbage that was MGS4.
The presentation is the issue with the game. I actually really liked the less is more approach but the pacing was off. Chapter 2 shouldn't have been titled as such and the replay missions shouldn't have been in the same tab as the main missions.
But yeah. I loved the themes of the game and it's still infinitely better than the fan-service garbage that was MGS4.
I wake up every morning and ask myself that same question.
erotic grandpa
Member
Loved it.
I guess I can get why most don't, but it got a gut reaction out of me that I hadn't really felt since...The Last of Us? Deadly Premonition? Red Dead?
The ending/twist really pissed me off initially, but in retrospect I kinda love that it did.
I guess I can get why most don't, but it got a gut reaction out of me that I hadn't really felt since...The Last of Us? Deadly Premonition? Red Dead?
The ending/twist really pissed me off initially, but in retrospect I kinda love that it did.
tryagainlater
Member
Don't like the story or the gameplay.
Overall, I think it's shit. What a terrible send off to what was my favourite series.
Overall, I think it's shit. What a terrible send off to what was my favourite series.
Mexen
Member
Breh, Dat embargo review period was very misleading. Konami knew why it gave them such a short time, relatively speaking, to play the game. I doubt they all finished the game, if anyone did, and of course the little the played plus the delivery of past games plus the hype. .. The consensus was probably that it would have a great ending.
V doesn't deserve the 10/10s it got. It just doesn't.
I disagree with the link you posted. They say that when he's thanking you for being Big Boss that they're not addressing you, the player.
This is where I disagree. I think that Kojima is indeed breaking the fourth wall. I honestly think that he's reaching out at the end of the series and telling you that you are indeed Big Boss, and is thanking you for the journey.
I know others will disagree and I'm fine with that. I think the real beauty is that it can easily be interpreted in the way you'd like it to. Perhaps that's the best part of it all, that Kojima was genius enough to lay out an ending that could encompass all. I know that the ending also had to potentially tie in with the Metal Gear games (which it does, although at points it feels a little too perfect) but it feels a tad rushed.
That said, I really think that regardless of how it ended there would be someone somewhere with a complaint. A series of this magnitude would never end without somebody having an issue and in that sense I think they did pretty well.
This is where I disagree. I think that Kojima is indeed breaking the fourth wall. I honestly think that he's reaching out at the end of the series and telling you that you are indeed Big Boss, and is thanking you for the journey.
I know others will disagree and I'm fine with that. I think the real beauty is that it can easily be interpreted in the way you'd like it to. Perhaps that's the best part of it all, that Kojima was genius enough to lay out an ending that could encompass all. I know that the ending also had to potentially tie in with the Metal Gear games (which it does, although at points it feels a little too perfect) but it feels a tad rushed.
That said, I really think that regardless of how it ended there would be someone somewhere with a complaint. A series of this magnitude would never end without somebody having an issue and in that sense I think they did pretty well.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Rising had a better story.
Skull Face ending is terrible but I love the character so much, his motive, his looks, his voice, his psychologie are awesome, If I could change something, I wish it would have take control of the Sahelanthropus but have the same death at the end...
I've never been a Metal Gear fan, but I've always been able to appreciate what Kojima was trying to do with the series, narratively. It's not for me, but I've been able to see what people find in it.
MGSV was the first game in the series where I thought Kojima had absolutely lost his fucking mind and I cannot possibly understand how anyone could think it anything other than a slap across the face. Again, I don't even care about Metal Gear and I was still insulted by it.
I don't blame Konami, I don't think it would have been any better if he had more time to finish it or whatever, I thought what was already there was entirely unsalvageable.
MGSV was the first game in the series where I thought Kojima had absolutely lost his fucking mind and I cannot possibly understand how anyone could think it anything other than a slap across the face. Again, I don't even care about Metal Gear and I was still insulted by it.
I don't blame Konami, I don't think it would have been any better if he had more time to finish it or whatever, I thought what was already there was entirely unsalvageable.
Being part of a massive group, the hype, the ups and downs prior to release, upon reaching the finale of the game I can honestly say i've never felt such disappointment for a game in my entire life.
I still find myself in discussions all this time later and I no longer really feel anything about the story. It was a mess, it was horribly cliché, and I genuinely feel as though i'd have been better had the game never existed and concluded with MGS4.
I still find myself in discussions all this time later and I no longer really feel anything about the story. It was a mess, it was horribly cliché, and I genuinely feel as though i'd have been better had the game never existed and concluded with MGS4.
Riposte
Member
Liked the premise, themes, and presentation. Wish there was more of it, that it had more characters, scenes. The two storytelling formats (cutscenes and tapes) ended up causing a lot of details to fall through the cracks. The most disappointing thing to me was the lack of character they promised for Mother Base, not the "story".
I don't know why people treat a prequel as a final chapter. That was MGS4's job. It even had 2 hours of cutscenes at the very end.
I don't know why people treat a prequel as a final chapter. That was MGS4's job. It even had 2 hours of cutscenes at the very end.
SkylineRKR
Member
Ogre was always an open world project. I think its just hard to create an open world game within an engaging, cutscene filled story. I don't know the total time of MGSV's cutscenes, but it might be quite a lot still compared to other games. Its just that there is 30 hours of gameplay inbetween this game. If MGSV took as long to beat like the other games, the cutscenes would've been much more frequent.
Most of them take place at MB which is boring as well, but this was already evident in the trailers too. Its obvious they created the cutscenes first, and then had to find a way to put them into their open world game. The easiest solution was just to trigger them when you came back from any mission. Since most of the missions are open world game tier filler it was probably the only solution. They could've learned from Rockstar, which doesn't take you out of the open world and cutscenes trigger after set story missions.
As for GZ, its much better in terms of narrative and atmosphere actually. But MGSV development was marred by internal struggles, problems with funding etc. Perhaps the ambitions rose too high.
im here for you bud.
Jimmyfenix
Member
This pretty much
sure chapter 1 had a normal story of killing bad guy who wronged you etc etc but "the missing link that completes the saga" it was not.
chapter 2 is just a mess overall
Romars202129
Member
Over the course of my playthrough, I went from dissapointed at the lack of content, to impressed at the actual quality of the content. Originally, I hated the ending, but like you OP, I saw a synapse of it that completely changed my opinion. To be completely honest, I love the game's story. And unlike 4, 3, and 2, it's an ending that truly sattisfied my lust for Metal Gear. Learning about Zero, Liquid, Huey, and Big Boss / Venom, finally I feel all my questions are answered. It's horrible what happened to Kojima Productions. But at least they put the series to bed right.
God, I wish it had been finished though, could have been the GOAT. Short of Quiet, at least. Wish that was handled better.
God, I wish it had been finished though, could have been the GOAT. Short of Quiet, at least. Wish that was handled better.
KOMANI
KOMANI
The only good thing about these MGSV threads is that they're a reunion for us posters that waited on hands and knees till we got our copies. And even afterwards, discussing the game with Brau, Ishida, Foxtrot, Screaming Meat... It's been bitter sweet.
I've been watching OHN (drk29) stream Ghost Babel, and I've noticed that GameboyColor Color game handles the themes of Revenge and Phantoms (Shadows in this case) better than TPP. GB has convinced me that Fukushima deserves more credit for his writing.
On to a smaller note. I've noticed a trend where MGSV had made people appreciate MGS4 more.
I've been watching OHN (drk29) stream Ghost Babel, and I've noticed that GameboyColor Color game handles the themes of Revenge and Phantoms (Shadows in this case) better than TPP. GB has convinced me that Fukushima deserves more credit for his writing.
On to a smaller note. I've noticed a trend where MGSV had made people appreciate MGS4 more.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
We don't know what the impact of Konami was on the game but what we do know is that the game was unfinished. The final mission exists in a "rough draft" only and I would hazard that there's a lot within the game that is missing, never finished or cut as well because there's some cutscenes that just exist on their own in, basically, a bubble and they're so well presented and directed.... there's tons of audio logs that expand on the game... there's a lot of potential.... and that's the saddest thing, that's all we have - potential that will never be realised. There's no "director's cut" coming to fix it. It could have been a nearly perfect game, now we just have an amazing game, but a poor Metal Gear.