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8 minute cam footage of Daytona 3 via Arcade Heroes

AmyS

Member
Imagine Daytona USA 4 on Xbox Scorpio pushing CG-like polygon counts/visuals with Sega's over the top artwork/design and resolution limited to native 1080p :p

Edit - For example:

 

djlr181

Member
Okay. So Arcade Heroes is killing it with Daytona coverage.

To clear some things up about the developer. Sumo Digital has zero involvement (they recently tweeted about zero involvement).

According to Arcade Heroes from the other Daytona thread, SEGA Amusement Europe/SRS (people who worked on Sega Rally 3, GRID, and Showdown) appears to be the developer with Shinichi Ogasawara (OGA, known for Gunblade NY, Transformers: Human Alliance, tons of SEGA arcade titles fame) overseeing.

You might think SRS was disbanded, but SRS was actually sold by SEGA to Codemasters.

Codemasters and SEGA collaborated on GRID and Showdown. This is almost definitely the former SRS team at Codemasters working with SEGA again.
 
So for the six tracks we have

Daytona International Speedway (boring version of 3-7 speedway)
Three-Seven Speedway
Lakeside Castle (Dinosaur Canyon mirrored)
Unknown advanced course (something new?)
Unknown expert course (Seaside Street Galaxy?)
Unknown expert course (something new?)

Looks like Lakeside Castle (Dinosaur Canyon) is missing the tunnel and the dinosaur on the canyon :/ looks a bit bland really. Can we expect Seaside Street Galaxy to be similarly bland? Will we get two brand-new tracks or repeats from Daytona 2?
 

AmyS

Member
This is a pretty nice read - EDGE UK article on Daytona USA 2 from June 1998.












Edit: And here's their sister publication (Next Generation) preview & review.





Does not take into account the changes & additions made to Power Edition.


Okay SEGA, it's been 18 long years. Can we please get Daytona USA 2 at home ? Especially now that arcades are getting a new game which could remain arcade-exclusive for almost 2 decades. if not forever.
 
Okay. So Arcade Heroes is killing it with Daytona coverage.

To clear some things up about the developer. Sumo Digital has zero involvement (they recently tweeted about zero involvement).

According to Arcade Heroes from the other Daytona thread, SEGA Amusement Europe/SRS (people who worked on Sega Rally 3, GRID, and Showdown) appears to be the developer with Shinichi Ogasawara (OGA, known for Gunblade NY, Transformers: Human Alliance, tons of SEGA arcade titles fame) overseeing.

You might think SRS was disbanded, but SRS was actually sold by SEGA to Codemasters.

Codemasters and SEGA collaborated on GRID and Showdown. This is almost definitely the former SRS team at Codemasters working with SEGA again.

Thanks for the info. I liked Sega Rally Online Arcade/Revo (that 30fps though) so, I'm fine with this.

So for the six tracks we have

Daytona International Speedway (boring version of 3-7 speedway)
Three-Seven Speedway
Lakeside Castle (Dinosaur Canyon mirrored)
Unknown advanced course (something new?)
Unknown expert course (Seaside Street Galaxy?)
Unknown expert course (something new?)

Looks like Lakeside Castle (Dinosaur Canyon) is missing the tunnel and the dinosaur on the canyon :/ looks a bit bland really. Can we expect Seaside Street Galaxy to be similarly bland? Will we get two brand-new tracks or repeats from Daytona 2?

I'll go ahead and I will say, current selection of circuits names, music assigned and layout are all in early stages so, nothing that was showed will be in the final build in the same form. Two identical begginer tracks? I dont think so
 
I'll go ahead and I will say, current selection of circuits names, music assigned and layout are all in early stages so, nothing that was showed will be in the final build in the same form. Two identical begginer tracks? I dont think so

Daytona International Speedway (boring version of 3-7 speedway)
Three-Seven Speedway

Those are definitely two separate tracks in the game, you can see in one of the vids posted earlier in the thread when the guy is choosing a track. I'm disappointed too, I enjoy the Daytona series for its fantasy tracks, I don't need or want a realistic version of 3-7. Seems like a waste. I hope I'm wrong, but I'll bet the tracks we see right now are for sure in the final version of the game. There is a chance we get a maximum of two brand-new tracks, but I'm not holding my breath.
 
So for the six tracks we have

Daytona International Speedway (boring version of 3-7 speedway)
Three-Seven Speedway
Lakeside Castle (Dinosaur Canyon mirrored)
Unknown advanced course (something new?)
Unknown expert course (Seaside Street Galaxy?)
Unknown expert course (something new?)

Looks like Lakeside Castle (Dinosaur Canyon) is missing the tunnel and the dinosaur on the canyon :/ looks a bit bland really. Can we expect Seaside Street Galaxy to be similarly bland? Will we get two brand-new tracks or repeats from Daytona 2?

Will edit for my pessimistic view.

Daytona International Speedway (boring 3-7 Speedway)
Three-Seven Speedway Classic

Lakeside Castle (Dinosaur Canyon mirrored)
Dinosaur Canyon Classic

'Bay bridge beach' (Seaside Street Galaxy mirrored)
Seaside Street Galaxy Classic
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
just a few seconds in and i'm reminded of how much garbage track voting is in an arcade. so.many.dollars.wasted in daytona because casuals would come along and pick the easy oval after my money was already put in :(
 

RAIDEN1

Member
I know its is a tall ask, especially as Sega may not have as much money as they had when developing Daytona 2...but they could have gone the extra mile with this version..

Get it on 4k resolution, running on 60fps, etc, and have the engine that is running the game have more horsepower than even the PS4 Pro (*currently the most powerful console on the market as of right now, as the tag-line goes)

That really would make this game in a class of its own..(not that it wasn't already but still)..
 
Will edit for my pessimistic view.

Daytona International Speedway (boring 3-7 Speedway)
Three-Seven Speedway Classic

Lakeside Castle (Dinosaur Canyon mirrored)
Dinosaur Canyon Classic

'Bay bridge beach' (Seaside Street Galaxy mirrored)
Seaside Street Galaxy Classic

Aw man, I was already bummed :(
I can see this happening actually. Really shouldn't be called Daytona 3 then, if all that's true. More like Daytona remix or something.

Hey Sega, can we at least get Daytona 2 at home finally?! Give it the same treatment as the PS360 Daytona please.
 

yyr

Member
Will edit for my pessimistic view.

This is ridiculous...they already said that there will be 3 remixed tracks and 3 entirely new tracks. While Daytona Speedway doesn't seem entirely "new," that still means two 100% new tracks. Your list just doesn't make sense...
 

nkarafo

Member
Okay SEGA, it's been 18 long years. Can we please get Daytona USA 2 at home ? Especially now that arcades are getting a new game which could remain arcade-exclusive for almost 2 decades. if not forever.
When was the last time Sega did a good Model 3 home port?

I assume porting Model 3 games is too hard?
 

sn00zer

Member
If this is a "Raw Thrills" made cabinet st your expectations way way low. They have some very good looking racing games with some god awful gameplay due to insane rubber banding.
 

@MUWANdo

Banned
I know its is a tall ask, especially as Sega may not have as much money as they had when developing Daytona 2...but they could have gone the extra mile with this version..

Get it on 4k resolution, running on 60fps, etc, and have the engine that is running the game have more horsepower than even the PS4 Pro (*currently the most powerful console on the market as of right now, as the tag-line goes)

That really would make this game in a class of its own..(not that it wasn't already but still)..

Arcade games simply don't push for the cutting-edge anymore and this is a western-made and western-focused arcade game so it'll be cheap by necessity.
 
Something about it just seems...off.

The first track felt like some generic arcade NASCAR game, not Daytona USA. The track was too serious (and maybe that's because the track itself won't let artistic license be taken with it).

I guess my point is that 90's Arcade Racer seems to capture more of the style of Daytona USA than this game does from this footage.

What Sega team is actually developing this?
 
It's not.

Whose making this one?

I think it looks decent in the videos, but the cars handling does look like it is a bit too over sensitive.

I would love to see Sega release Daytona 2 digitally (and hell, Daytona 1 HD for the PC) , but do they have the rights to even release home versions?
 

Arcadehero

Neo Member
Sorry, I didn't see that anywhere. I expect we don't know the hardware used then?

That's correct. One of the first things I talked about with the head developer was the hardware. It's not Sega Nu nor is it RingEdge 2. ATM, if it has a name, he didn't say.

He was involved with Sega Rally 3 (2008) which used PC hardware built to a spec that they needed to get the game looking the way it did while maintaining 60fps. Most arcade devs are still dedicated to that, with the very occasional 90fps (indie titles ReRave Plus and NEON FM both went up to 90 but look those up and you'll see that a massive budget wasn't need to do so). That hardware for SR3 was called "Europa-R"

http://system16.com/hardware.php?id=907

Sega UK also put together GRID in the same way so they built a different spec that the game needed. The same goes for Daytona 3. Since the specs will certainly be different, we could probably call whatever it is doing "Europa-R Rev. 3" or Europa-R 2.

I'm not on the bandwagon of it looking like crap as I've seen real crap and this isn't it (I am at a tradeshow with a lot of games from China that give poor Flash games a run for their money). That and in person there are certain details that didn't come out even in my 1080p video - such as a sparkle of light on the metal bolts of the back of the car and some nice shading in the colors. Personally I think it looks great in person but I also am not claiming that it is Forza.

I got Eugene Jarvis' opinion on it after we ran into each other yesterday - he didn't ask me to quote him so suffice it to say, Sega and Raw Thrills are very much rivals in the arcade business :)

I also posted video of the new Cruis'n in case anyone is interested in that one too. Maximum Tune 5 video is up tomorrow. -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBLIkFHdPTc
 
That's correct. One of the first things I talked about with the head developer was the hardware. It's not Sega Nu nor is it RingEdge 2. ATM, if it has a name, he didn't say.

He was involved with Sega Rally 3 (2008) which used PC hardware built to a spec that they needed to get the game looking the way it did while maintaining 60fps. Most arcade devs are still dedicated to that, with the very occasional 90fps (indie titles ReRave Plus and NEON FM both went up to 90 but look those up and you'll see that a massive budget wasn't need to do so). That hardware for SR3 was called "Europa-R"

http://system16.com/hardware.php?id=907

Sega UK also put together GRID in the same way so they built a different spec that the game needed. The same goes for Daytona 3. Since the specs will certainly be different, we could probably call whatever it is doing "Europa-R Rev. 3" or Europa-R 2.

I'm not on the bandwagon of it looking like crap as I've seen real crap and this isn't it (I am at a tradeshow with a lot of games from China that give poor Flash games a run for their money). That and in person there are certain details that didn't come out even in my 1080p video - such as a sparkle of light on the metal bolts of the back of the car and some nice shading in the colors. Personally I think it looks great in person but I also am not claiming that it is Forza.

I got Eugene Jarvis' opinion on it after we ran into each other yesterday - he didn't ask me to quote him so suffice it to say, Sega and Raw Thrills are very much rivals in the arcade business :)

I also posted video of the new Cruis'n in case anyone is interested in that one too. Maximum Tune 5 video is up tomorrow. -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBLIkFHdPTc

Thanks AracdeHero!

Crusin has neat details even if it isnt one of my fav franchises. Although killing is just disgusting.

One last thing. If you have a little time to spare, can you record a couple of full laps of Seaside Castle and/or 3-7 Speedway of Daytona 3?
 
I am sure part of the new licensing deal was that they had to make the oval look at least a little like the actual track this time.

Other than that am totally feeling it. Can't wait to see the other tracks. Also, those guys really sucked.
 
Ok, had a chance to finally watch this on my PC instead of my phone. Some new observations:

-No H-pattern shifter is flat out unacceptable. They have to fix this. That fact that they even considered a simple up/down shifter makes me worry about if they even fully understand the drifting mechanics of the previous games.

-The UI and track design is colorful, but bland. It doesn't really look like like a Sega arcade racing game from an art standpoint. I'd take this to mean it's not a Japanese Sega team designing and developing the game, which is also a little worrying.

-It's great to hear the old Mitsuyoshi music, but if they don't tap him to compose some new tracks it will be a huge missed opportunity. The man has clearly still got it.

Overall, the game doesn't look terrible but it also doesn't look like a worthy successor to Daytona 1/2 and Scud Race right now. The graphics are fine, but the art direction just seems a little boring and sterile. But with the current state of arcade games, it's a miracle that we're getting this at all, so I'll take "pretty good" over nothing. But holy shit, fix that shifter.
 

Arcadehero

Neo Member
Thanks AracdeHero!

Crusin has neat details even if it isnt one of my fav franchises. Although killing is just disgusting.

One last thing. If you have a little time to spare, can you record a couple of full laps of Seaside Castle and/or 3-7 Speedway of Daytona 3?

The only thing Cruis'n doesn't have that the originals did is the scantily clad women waving flags. That might be a Nintendo call since the FnF games didn't shy away from that but many locations that catered to kids turned it off anyways.

I stopped by Sega's booth today and asked one of the Sega staff to drive for me so I could get someone good at the game to play. He did 3-7 Speedway so you'll get a good look at it as well as what the game currently does for a 1st place finish.He made it look very easy. I recorded it in 4k with my Blackberry Priv so hopefully that gets the detail that everyone wants. Unfortunately the hotel internet is terrible so I'm probably going to cancel the upload and do it tomorrow using a line at the convention center.

Here's a teaser, which also answers AmyS above re: Sonic Mountain :)

https://twitter.com/arcadeheroes/status/799478413744541696

-No H-pattern shifter is flat out unacceptable. They have to fix this. That fact that they even considered a simple up/down shifter makes me worry about if they even fully understand the drifting mechanics of the previous games.

It is too bad that all fans can't go to these shows and talk with the developers as then you wouldn't be worried nor feel that way. These guys are all huge Daytona fans. They are spending massive amounts of time developing and testing it and they really want fans to be happy. They understand how the game works but they also understand various aspects of the current arcade industry that have to be followed to make the game affordable and successful.

One major problem with the H-Shifter is that the original parts for it don't exist in the industry right now. Also, remanufacturing parts isn't free. I had a nice, long conversation with the head of development about this and he said that they are looking at a 4-gear shifter with an arcade parts company but it has to be redesigned to meet their criteria. Unfortunately when you are working with a 3rd party, often things don't work out the way you hope, costs tend to go up as do delays. I can vouch that they really do want to have a 4g shifter but since a solution is not ready yet, they couldn't introduce the game with nothing either (I can imagine the out-cry if it was only AT).

-The UI and track design is colorful, but bland. It doesn't really look like like a Sega arcade racing game from an art standpoint

To each their own but from playing it in person, it feels more Sega to me than GRID or Showdown did. But yes, it has some distance to go. I'd just say be patient and wait it out. I see all sorts of internet commenters passing final judgement on a beta game that is 50-60% complete. IMO, that's just silly as a lot can change in the remaining percent.

The next time we'll see the game is in January at a big UK trade show. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of feedback from the IAAPA show gets integrated into that. Then what will be even closer to final will be shown in March for Amusement Expo 2017 in Texas. This year Mario & Sonic Olympics was shown in March but didn't release until May/June as they continued polishing.
 
The only thing Cruis'n doesn't have that the originals did is the scantily clad women waving flags. That might be a Nintendo call since the FnF games didn't shy away from that but many locations that catered to kids turned it off anyways.

I stopped by Sega's booth today and asked one of the Sega staff to drive for me so I could get someone good at the game to play. He did 3-7 Speedway so you'll get a good look at it as well as what the game currently does for a 1st place finish.He made it look very easy. I recorded it in 4k with my Blackberry Priv so hopefully that gets the detail that everyone wants. Unfortunately the hotel internet is terrible so I'm probably going to cancel the upload and do it tomorrow using a line at the convention center.

Here's a teaser, which also answers AmyS above re: Sonic Mountain :)

https://twitter.com/arcadeheroes/status/799478413744541696



It is too bad that all fans can't go to these shows and talk with the developers as then you wouldn't be worried nor feel that way. These guys are all huge Daytona fans. They are spending massive amounts of time developing and testing it and they really want fans to be happy. They understand how the game works but they also understand various aspects of the current arcade industry that have to be followed to make the game affordable and successful.

One major problem with the H-Shifter is that the original parts for it don't exist in the industry right now. Also, remanufacturing parts isn't free. I had a nice, long conversation with the head of development about this and he said that they are looking at a 4-gear shifter with an arcade parts company but it has to be redesigned to meet their criteria. Unfortunately when you are working with a 3rd party, often things don't work out the way you hope, costs tend to go up as do delays. I can vouch that they really do want to have a 4g shifter but since a solution is not ready yet, they couldn't introduce the game with nothing either (I can imagine the out-cry if it was only AT).



To each their own but from playing it in person, it feels more Sega to me than GRID or Showdown did. But yes, it has some distance to go. I'd just say be patient and wait it out. I see all sorts of internet commenters passing final judgement on a beta game that is 50-60% complete. IMO, that's just silly as a lot can change in the remaining percent.

The next time we'll see the game is in January at a big UK trade show. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of feedback from the IAAPA show gets integrated into that. Then what will be even closer to final will be shown in March for Amusement Expo 2017 in Texas. This year Mario & Sonic Olympics was shown in March but didn't release until May/June as they continued polishing.

Thanks Arcade Hero!

In that post I mean "Killing cows" sorry for the typo

Looking forward that video and that insight of H shifter. We hope that SRS could resolve that!!
 

Celine

Member
This is a pretty nice read - EDGE UK article on Daytona USA 2 from June 1998.

Okay SEGA, it's been 18 long years. Can we please get Daytona USA 2 at home ? Especially now that arcades are getting a new game which could remain arcade-exclusive for almost 2 decades. if not forever.
To think Sega showed up Scud Race at Dreamcast presentation but we never got a port :-(
 

Shion

Member
The graphics are fine, it's the visual design that makes the game feel bland. It just lacks the "SEGA flair".

Of course, it certainly doesn't help that most of the footage we've seen so far comes from the "Nascar course". A Nascar-type environment is, by default, too grounded and boring, it looked super-bland even in Daytona USA 2.

Here's a side by side comparison between the awesome beginner course of Battle on the Edge and the Nascar-type beginner course of Power Edition:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Inrr0m_SSfc

Same engine, same graphics, same course layout, but Power Edition just looks bland compared to Battle on the Edge.
 
Same engine, same graphics, same course layout, but Power Edition just looks bland compared to Battle on the Edge.

And compared to Power Edition, Daytona 3 looks incredibly bland. I don't think the problem is the graphics, it's the art design, it just doesn't have, as you said, that Sega flair.
 

Pachael

Member
Visual design is one thing, but sound design is another - those Daytona 2 sounds, the pit crew chat, and music really puts you in a racing mood.

This one sounds like it's a Reloaded version rather than another music shift. Maybe it's placeholder music but not hoping for much.

Still, gameplay is still good even if the font design looks like it's come out of Crazy Taxi City Rush
 
The graphics are fine, it's the visual design that makes the game feel bland. It just lacks the "SEGA flair".

Of course, it certainly doesn't help that most of the footage we've seen so far comes from the "Nascar course". A Nascar-type environment is, by default, too grounded and boring, it looked super-bland even in Daytona USA 2.

Here's a side by side comparison between the awesome beginner course of Battle on the Edge and the Nascar-type beginner course of Power Edition:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Inrr0m_SSfc

Same engine, same graphics, same course layout, but Power Edition just looks bland compared to Battle on the Edge.

Really agree and that comparison of Daytona 2 is really underlining the fact. I'd love a home version of this game and they can through in both versions of that track to suit everyone!

Edit: Just checked wikipedia and it seems ther were quite a few changes made in the Power Edition:
In late 1998, a few months after the release of Battle on the Edge, Sega released an updated version, known as Daytona USA 2: Power Edition. Changes in this game include the environment of the beginner course; the dome and natural scenery that encircle the track in the regular release are removed and is changed to a 'nascar stadium' look however, the course layout remains the same. Also included is the "Challenge" course option, which combines the three courses altogether. Along with slightly revamped handling physics, the beginner car's livery is slightly altered. Added to Power Edition is the Hornet Classic car, the player car from Daytona USA with an altered design. The opponent cars' AI is also more aggressive in this version, with another change being to one corner in the advanced course to balance out the difficulty. Before this change, many experts considered this corner the most difficult in the game.
 

Trojan X

Banned
New video. Three Seven Speedway: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBbLpmbd9SA


To be honest, I am disappointed. This would be awesome as the HD Remake version of the original Daytona USA but this is Daytona USA 3.. THREE. It should have been more like how Daytona USA 2 provided aplenty more.

Oh well, we got 3 more courses to check out and I guess we won't see them unless Sega releases new footages or they put the arcade out on a test location with the new courses unlocked.
 
I think 3-7 Speedway looks better than ever. I'm happy with it but I hope those 3 new circuits are incredible

Thank you very much Arcade hero!
 

avens

Neo Member
Ok, had a chance to finally watch this on my PC instead of my phone. Some new observations:

-No H-pattern shifter is flat out unacceptable. They have to fix this. That fact that they even considered a simple up/down shifter makes me worry about if they even fully understand the drifting mechanics of the previous games.

-The UI and track design is colorful, but bland. It doesn't really look like like a Sega arcade racing game from an art standpoint. I'd take this to mean it's not a Japanese Sega team designing and developing the game, which is also a little worrying.

-It's great to hear the old Mitsuyoshi music, but if they don't tap him to compose some new tracks it will be a huge missed opportunity. The man has clearly still got it.

Overall, the game doesn't look terrible but it also doesn't look like a worthy successor to Daytona 1/2 and Scud Race right now. The graphics are fine, but the art direction just seems a little boring and sterile. But with the current state of arcade games, it's a miracle that we're getting this at all, so I'll take "pretty good" over nothing. But holy shit, fix that shifter.

About the current state of arcade games comment/excuse, I think that part is wrong.

Since this is supposedly a Sega of Japan game, meant to be released for both the Japanese and international markets, then the measurement stick is the fantastic state of arcades in Japan, not the lousy one in the west.

In Japan Daytona 3 has to compete against Initial D 8 and Wangan 5; both fantastic games and with very nice graphics. That's the standard, not Initial D 4 and Fast and the Furious like in the west.

From the video I can tell the team intends to release a Daytona 1 remix, only for the Arcades and with a graphics standard of any current home console AA title. That's not good enough. They should learn of what made OutRun 2 great, so that Daytona 3 is a brand new game, with an arcade cabinet that invites you to play (H-Shifter is the bare minimum), includes a console release, and all with the very best graphics of its generation (since due to its gameplay it's the least resource demanding racing game). Even Daytona 1 was the best looking racers of its time, so as a spiritual successor of that game Daytona 3 cannot look this mediocre.

Plus, c'mon Sega just release both versions of Daytona 2 for Steam. Like, WTF. There's no licensing issues.

edit: and BTW, the footage and the video comments are fantastic. Quality content.
 

liquidtmd

Banned
Realism be damned, the conventional NASCAR oval track here looks boring as fuck compared to the originals oval with Sonic Mountain and the Casino Reels

Don't get me wrong - im in and hope we get home versions, it just (as some have said) looks more like Daytona Remix than Daytona 3
 

Aki-at

Member
About the current state of arcade games comment/excuse, I think that part is wrong.

Since this is supposedly a Sega of Japan game, meant to be released for both the Japanese and international markets, then the measurement stick is the fantastic state of arcades in Japan, not the lousy one in the west.

Not that I disagree with you regarding technically better arcade titles but the state of arcades in Japan is far from fantastic, especially for traditional games. We're seeing more and more card and medal based games entering the market with the actual size shrinking last I checked.

SEGA for example had 477 arcade facilities in 2005 and now have 198 centres. I'm not sure about the overall volume of them (I think I recall seeing it in one of their stock reports) but I am pretty sure they've declined considerably too.

Realism be damned, the conventional NASCAR oval track here looks boring as fuck compared to the originals oval with Sonic Mountain and the Casino Reels

Don't get me wrong - im in and hope we get home versions, it just (as some have said) looks more like Daytona Remix than Daytona 3

Sonic mountain is still in https://youtu.be/gBbLpmbd9SA?t=59s agreed though against realism, would love to see a more fantasy approach, game is still some time away from being done so hopefully they'll improve on that aspect.
 
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