Support NeoGAF

[cordy]

I've always hated this argument for two reasons.

1) Money is fungible. The game's success in the arcade has near-zero bearing on if making a home version would be a wise investment for Namco. There's nothing that says that the revenue from the arcade version must be invested into the home port -- if they think they would make more money from making another Idolmaster mobile game, then guess what? You're getting more idols.

The one thing that does matter about positive arcade performance is that it means that the game is good enough that people are willing to pay for the privilege to play the game -- and that's important! Arcades (especially today) are a very harsh environment and a game doing well there almost always means you've past a rather high quality standard. So there's little concern now that Tekken 7 will tank because the core game experience stinks.

2) The way revenue from arcade games work now is very different than how it was in the past. In the past, arcade developers would sell their kits and that was the end of it. They held off on console ports mainly to avoid pissing off arcade operators and to give them the time to get a return on their investment as the game ran its course in game centers. Nowadays Namco makes revenue on every coin drop -- so even years after the fact, a home release is going to have a negative impact on the revenue gained from the arcade version. So the home version needs to surpass it's development budget and the lost revenue from the arcade version. (And given how hardcore the player base tends to be, doing things like regional or off-region platform releases doesn't help.)

Tacking back to SF, Capcom willingly gave up that revenue source for whatever reason. Although I don't know how much uptake there would have been of dedicated kits for the game given its simultaneous launch and Nesica 2 is launching about a year too late for it (as the original Nesica/Aime cabinets are way too underpowered to run SF5). I could see it being problematic with their more international focus, but their approach has been awful all the way around anyway. It probably is the right long-term move to de-emphasise arcade revenue (as that sector has been in decline for the last decade) but I suspect that this wasn't the right time to cut it completely off.

Yep exactly. I agree with what you're saying here. I wasn't arguing that it's a better option. I'm saying that if you fulfill the qualifications for that option then it's potentially smart but not everybody can qualifies and not everybody will benefit from it. Tekken can qualify for that option though, many other fighters can't. It varies.

 

[Femto.]

Why its locked to Playstation 4 on the console so too bad for them.

huh

Let me know when they sell a version with everything on the disc.

I think you'll be waiting forever, or at least till the very end of the games cycle.

 

[King Kye]

GTA, Far Cry, Uncharted, to name a few that exceed that. They're probably outliers to you but that's not really the point.

It's still only sold 100k between April and Now despite being heavily advertised in the eSports community, despite EVO being televised nationwide, despite all the money they put into actually making the content to complete it. It took all that to sell 100k units in that span of time.

I see it as a positive that a FG can sell 100k in that span without a rerelease - even if its SF.

SFV's release has firmly established how niche the genre has become. Let's not act like those games you mentioned don't get continued evergreen marketing and exposure from DLC releases and console bundles.

Most of the updates are Capcom just following its DLC schedule. If Capcom can keep selling and continue to monetize the DLC, I'm sure the game will do fine for them. So yeah, it's entirely the point.

Game still has some ways to go, no one denies that. But people trying to pretend the game is an abject failure on this forum is tired.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

SFV's release has firmly established how niche the genre has become. Let's not act like those games you mentioned don't get continued evergreen marketing and exposure from DLC releases and console bundles.

You realize Mortal Kombat X sold 4 million in its launch year right? Even if you take out the Xbox platform from them, its still more than what SFV managed in that span.

 

[King Kye]

NRS games are known to be the huge outlier in the FG genre. Seriously?

Japanese publishers just can't compete with WB's war chest for development and marketing.

 

[lucebuce12]

NRS games are the only Fighting Game series that consistently sell the highest numbers. Other series might sell well but certainly not "NRS-games" well.

 

[frankie_baby]

I see it as a positive that a FG can sell 100k in that span without a rerelease - even if its SF.

SFV's release has firmly established how niche the genre has become. Let's not act like those games you mentioned don't get continued evergreen marketing and exposure from DLC releases and console bundles.

Most of the updates are Capcom just following its DLC schedule. If SFV can keep selling and continue to monetize the DLC, I'm sure the game will do fine for them. So yeah, it's entirely the point.

Game still has some ways to go, no one denies that. But people trying to pretend the game is an abject failure on this forum is tired.

It didnt necessarily sell 100k in this period, just passed another 100k milestone

 

[SolarPowered]

lol that's atrocious

where did they go so wrong?

Releasing the game six months (at minimum) before it was ready.

 

[Prime crotch]

It's a poor product, the community pushed it hard but it didn't take. Too little and too late, a re-launch would probably help matters.

 

[ShogunDarius]

Legit good game that needs a push... put it on PlayStation plus. Then make another season to recoup your losses.

Making it a PS plus title might be the only viable option left, if they do so that that though they should either make season 1 free with the SFV or heavily discounted.
I've already had one friend decided not to get this game after seeing the price of both seasons passes putting them off buying the game even when it was on sale.

 

[King Kye]

It didnt necessarily sell 100k in this period, just passed another 100k milestone

Which one of us is misinterpreting the OP?

 

[rockyt]

That kinda hurts when you really think about it half of it came from PC. SFV probably sold heavily discounted to even push that with Capcom taking a hit on retailer discount clause. Sometime sold to retailer is not a good thing when items are overshipped and publisher have to eat the cost when retailers have to heavy discount early.

 

[Smooth Operator]

NRS games are known to be the huge outlier in the FG genre. Seriously?

Japanese publishers just can't compete with WB's war chest for development and marketing.

What's your excuse for SFxT outselling SFV ?

 

[TRUE ORDER]

That's quite bad given the franchise previous sales.

They need to do something to get more people to buy it.

 

[King Kye]

What about SFxT ? What's your excuse for SFxT outselling SFV ?

Excuse? What "excuse"?

It was a different era and the Capcom and SF brand were both stronger back then.

 

[23qwerty]

so bizarre considering how good of a game it is and how few fighting games there are nowadays

 

[bobbytkc]

They launched without basic content and expected features and were punished for it. God knows the thought process that they went through to justify its release.

I think a lot of game designers are simply not management material. Ono makes good games, but he diesnt really have a good grasp of the business side of things.

 

[Ushay]

Wonder what hurt that sales so much. Exclusivity? Features? Release model?

 

[lucebuce12]

so bizarre considering how good of a game it is and how few fighting games there are nowadays

Are there really so few? On PS4 alone, there's SF5, MKX, KoF 14, Guilty Gear Xrd, BlazBlue: CF, DoA 5 and not to mention the rereleases of older games i.e Injustice 1, Garou, UMvC 3, USF 4 and others. And in the next 5 months, Tekken 7 and Injustice 2 will be added to that list.

There's probably some more games that I'm missing out on (probably anime)

On the Microsoft only Side, you have Killer Instinct. On the Nintendo only side, you have Smash.

 

[joanot]

Capcom could learn some things from Rocket League and Overwatch, games as a service work when you engage with the community and listen to them, adding and fixing features to improve the users experience with the game.

I know a fighting game doesn´t have the potential to reach those massive userbases OW and RL got but the game underperformed big time and Capcom attitude doesnt help much, prioritizing new paid content instead of fixing basic stuff first. Seems pretty clear that the dev team is understaffed too.

Relaunching or going the F2P route isn't going to change anything if they don´t fix the clusterfuck everything in this game is apart from the gameplay. People will just walk away after giving it a try.

 

[rockyt]

Wonder what hurt that sales so much. Exclusivity? Features? Release model?

They went after the Esport crowd and forgot about the casual crowd.

 

[BlizzKrut]

You realize Mortal Kombat X sold 4 million in its launch year right? Even if you take out the Xbox platform from them, its still more than what SFV managed in that span.

And yet after two years it's already out of EVO, very low population online, that's the NRS cycle for you.

 

[Smooth Operator]

And yet two years later it's already out of EVO, dead online, very low population online, that's the NRS cycle for you.

Who cares ? We're talking about sales. Hell, Capcom would kill for NRS sales + Capcom cycle.

5K for SFV @ EVO is cool, but what's the point if this doesn't translate into sales ?

 

[rockyt]

And yet two years later it's already out of EVO, dead online, very low population online, that's the NRS cycle for you.

Here's the thing it still made more money than SFV ;and is keeping the series healthy for a new game.

 

[mnz]

And yet after two years it's already out of EVO, very low population online, that's the NRS cycle for you.

The donation drive for MKX at EVO is sitting at 7 donors and $135 while Marvel 3 is at $15,000. It's such a weird community.

 

[23qwerty]

Are there really so few? On PS4 alone, there's SF5, MKX, KoF 14, Guilty Gear Xrd, BlazBlue: CF, DoA 5 and not to mention the rereleases of older games i.e Injustice 1, Garou, UMvC 3, USF 4 and others. And in the next 5 months, Tekken 7 and Injustice 2 will be added to that list.

There's probably some more games that I'm missing out on (probably anime)

On the Microsoft only Side, you have Killer Instinct. On the Nintendo only side, you have Smash.

and yet sf5 is a better fighting game than all of em

 

[BlizzKrut]

Who cares ? We're talking about sales. Hell, Capcom would kill for NRS sales + Capcom cycle.

5K for SFV @ EVO is cool, but what's the point if this doesn't translate into sales ?

Anyone who'd like to play the game online.

 

[Ducktail]

That's really, really sad considering how good the game is nowadays. However, as many people said here, the game has a bad rep and it's Capcom's fault for releasing the game in a such a messy state. It took almost a month to be fully online and there was no content.

Hope they learn their lesson... and hope they don't cancel all incoming seasons =(

 

[Smooth Operator]

Anyone who'd like to play the game online.

Cool, because the MKX community is still healthy online... Hell, i've even played Injustice 1 online a few days ago, no issues (Except the garbage netcode )

and yet sf5 is a better fighting game than all of em

Oh okay. Can you please explain to me why GGXRD Revelator and Blazblue are not better fighting games than SFV ?

Thanks.

 

[lucebuce12]

and yet sf5 is a better fighting game than all of em

That's subjective but you're entitled to your opinion.

I personally think that there are better fighting games out there right now, in terms of fun factor and as an overall package. They had the chance with season 2 to fix a lot of the balance/gameplay related issues but didn't so I'm just taking a break from the game.

Cool, because the MKX community is still healthy online... Hell, i've even played Injustice 1 online a few days ago, no issues (Except the garbage netcode )

The MKX community is gonna be deader than dead once Injustice 2 rolls out though. Sadly it's the way NRS games go but that is one thing to be said about SF5. They can certainly turn this around into a profitable thing by going the Killer Instinct route and keep the game alive long term which is also good for late adopters. That is the one advantage of supporting the game long-term is that you can keep making money with less investment as compared to making brand new games consistently.

Though this being Capcom, they're naturally gonna fuck it up.

 

[120v]

i have friends who play SF4 avidly that didn't even know SF5 exists. i wonder if the sony exclusivity had something to do with it

either way it just really flew under the radar for a lot of people.

 

[BlizzKrut]

Cool, because the MKX community is still healthy online... Hell, i've even played Injustice 1 online a few days ago, no issues (Except the garbage netcode )



Oh okay. Can you please explain to me why GGXRD Revelator and Blazblue are not better fighting games than SFV ?

Thanks.

You and I have different definitions on what a 'health community' is like then ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[kaydigi]

Still waiting on those season 2 character reveals, it's been a good while now.

 

[Smooth Operator]

You and I have different definitions on what a 'health community' is like then ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

As long as i can find various opponents, the community is healthly. Now, it doesn't change the fact that NRS Cycle > Capcom Cycle atm.

(Edited)

 

[groansey]

I can understand people defending the game now compared to release, but they need to understand this game isn't suited to the mainstream, casual gamer in the same the way other big franchises are. If they go F2P people will walk away because it's slow (UI, loading times), lacking polish and punishingly difficult.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Wait for EVO, right guys?

 

[Bits N Pieces]

Would they not be better relaunching the game and adopt the KI model?

 

[jfoul]

Wonder what hurt that sales so much. Exclusivity? Features? Release model?

I think it's a long build up of burning the casual audience well before the release of SFV.

• Multiple versions of SFIV
• Capcom going dark after releasing some MvC3 DLC
• Surprise! UMvC3 is released 9 months after MvC3
• Surprise! MvC3 not compatible online with UMvC3
• Street Fighter X Tekken had a bad release
• Street Fighter X Tekken DLC shenanigans

I know I'm probably missing things, but you get the idea.

 

[BlizzKrut]

Would they not be better relaunching the game and adopt the KI model?

Relaunch the game as a 'Super' update and you'll get flak for not sticking to your promises, don't and you'll get it too, they are stuck in that position.

 

[ZoddGutts]

Capcom killing another IP shocking! They've been doing a good job at that since last gen. Horrible sales and legs.

 

[thelastword]

How are sales fine when dudes ain't meeting their sales targets lmao.

I don't even wanna know how little they're getting for all their DLC practices. They can't even sell the game, DLC is probably another story entirely lol.

Capcoms's sales targets are always through the roof for any title, it's one sure thing in life Lets be honest though, this title is built on purchasing costumes, characters, stages, new seasons at 29.99 etc...They don't need to sell 10 milion copies, since the people playing and loving the game currently will keep on paying for the extra content....

There's a reason why Capcom said it's invested in SFV till 2020. I don't believe the intent is to lose as much money as they can, it's definitley worth their while....

Sorry but this is not true.

I get games pretty regularly, I also get more consistent and good 5 bar connections. USF4 was a mess for me for well over a year on PC...I guess experiences may vary, but outside of the occasional server issues...I think online performance is pretty steady in this game.

"People are playing, therefore they're still paying" strikes me as a spurious conclusion for a pay-to-play title, especially whose base price has yet to shift on digital platforms.

Also, all the game selling more than its current contemporaries -- which I assume is what you're referring to with "other fighters faring in the market", as opposed to an even broader net -- would say is that it's merely doing relatively well. A game isn't a success simply because it's ahead of the rest of the recent crop of alternatives, especially when said pack is missing other heavy-hitters (namely Mortal Kombat, Injustice and Tekken). If I have a lemonade stand and by the end of the day have sold 10 cups more than anybody else on the street, that doesn't make me Schweppes.

Fighters are not what they used to be, minus Mortal Kombat........Mortal however sold much more than SFV, yet, SFV is the most populated and played online game, most watched, has the most entries in any tournament, has more frequent tournaments etc... etc... For all intents and purposes, this does not denote doing badly by any stretch of the imagination. I agree sales could have been even better, but for what it is, it's pretty solid I'd say.....I'd rather have 1 million people buy a game where most are playing and watching it months later as opposed to having 10 million copies sold and fewer people playing or engaed.

I think that's the win Capcom has here, and the fanbase is going nowhere since there's content coming up till 2020. It's a good longterm approach for sales and revenue that Capcom has set, so I don't know why people are just stuck on base sales. Lets be honest, there will always be a hook for people to purchase the game way beyond 2017....Maybe some are just waiting for their character to make it in or for the roster to exapnd, I know some are waiting for Sagat, some Gouken, some Gill or even Blanka and Sakura.....Also, it's really nothing of note that the base game is still 59.99, SFV have been on sale a million times over, the season 1 pass has reduced, the game could be had for as low as $10.00 at one point for a boxed copy (though a mistake by Amazon). Yet, even when people want to mock bases sales, the game is very active online and has the FGC mindshare......and will continue to do so and expand.

Street Fighter X Tekken

Release : Mar 2012
Platform : PS3, Xbox 360, DL
Units : 1.8 million units

LOL.

SFV hold dat retail L.



In Australia I had quicker queue times for Ultra SFIV on steam in it's last few months than I do for SFV PC and PS4 combined userbase for the last 8 months.....

And this is compared to not even getting past the character versus screen (on PS360) when ever a new update hit for like a few weeks in peak time... something SFV never came close too...



USFIV sold 1 million.... not exactly a glowing comparison....

USFIV 1 million
AE 1.1 million
3DS 1.2 million
Super 1.9 million
SFIV 3.4 million

Thanks for the info, USF4 steam version was a mess for a long time, a long long time. It's also something to consider that SF4 was on more platforms including PC and had many re-releases and new launches with new gameplay enhancements and balance patches....

Even then, I don't consider these stats for SF4 all that impressive over SFV since it was on more platforms and received all those re-laucnhes and changes as I pointed out. We need even further stats to get the real picture of how things are working for Capcom for SFV.......SFV is a different beast, it's a base game, where people can buy, season pass 1 for (initially 29.99, now 19.99) and then season pass 2 for 29.99, pro tour pack for $25 and all the other costume packs they have. I think we have to get stats for these sub purchases for the base game to get a real picture here....

I'd say Capcom is fine with SFV's performance, hence why they're invested till 2020....

 

[Chev]

[*]Surprise! MvC3 not compatible online with UMvC3

I don't get why that one would be a surprise. Are there even games that are compatible online over different versions?

 

[sinkfla87]

The donation drive for MKX at EVO is sitting at 7 donors and $135 while Marvel 3 is at $15,000. It's such a weird community.

There's two reasons for this.
1. NRS players are gearing up to compete in Injustice 2, and since they have that they are not terribly concerned whether or not MKX will be at Evo. People still play and and enjoy MKX but all the pros' attention and dedication is currently on going to compete on the new game.

2. SonicFox's college fund is large enough already lol.

 

[Bgamer90]

Man. That's bad. Capcom needs to just rerelease the game.

 

[Cerium]

Sakurai was right

Now there will never be a Melee 2, good job Capcom

 

[mnz]

There's two reasons for this.
1. NRS players are gearing up to compete in Injustice 2, and since they have that they are not terribly concerned whether or not MKX will be at Evo. People still play and and enjoy MKX but all the pros' attention and dedication is currently on going to compete on the new game.

2. SonicFox's college fund is large enough already lol.

I would argue that the donations would largely come from the community, though.
And yeah, I know they will all just switch to I2, that's how it goes. But that game isn't even out to judge its quality and it's also not a 1:1 copy of gameplay either.
That's the weird part for me.

 

[Tyaren]

They launched without basic content and expected features and were punished for it. God knows the thought process that they went through to justify its release.

This.
I have zero sympathy for Capcom or the franchise. I deeply regret being there day one and paying 70€/75$ (got the steelbook edition) for basically a beta/demo. I sold it a couple of weeks later...

 

[Roni]

I like to casually play Street Fighter, but I never picked this up because I feel like I'll just get destroyed online when I come out to play. Design of the game just doesn't get into my head.

Wonder how many other casual fans feel the same. Because those numbers seem to mean almost everyone who wanted SFV got it at launch.

 

[BassForever]

They just need to do a super relaunch with all s1&s2 content included to get people who were burned to jump back in.

 

[ethomaz]

I hope Season 2 increase more sales.