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[kazuyamishima]

You'll find out pretty soon that lots of people on GAF don't like math. So they won't understand your post.

Decent profit is more important than units sold. But it’s clear that the narrative changes whenever people want to.

The leaks only confirms that Sony 1st party games are profitable, Daniel Ahmad said back in 2020 that the 1st party game don’t make any money at all and that Sony makes their money from subscriptions (which they also make money from them).

Still, there will be people saying their games don’t make money at all.

 

[DForce]

I mean sure if "it still sold 10 million" is what you wanna fall back on, it was the number we all knew about and was confused why they hadn't announced new numbers since.
That doesn't change that people was right about it not being as successful as the original and the sales had fell off.

Last of Us Part Ii sales slowed down in late 2022 and 2021. They picked up significantly in 2022. It was the 14th best-selling title in Europe for the first half of this year.

2020
November - US 8th - EU - 7th

2021
April - EU - 12th
August - EU - 16th
October - EU - 11th
November - US - 16th - EU - 6th

2022
March - US - 15th - EU - 13th
April - US - 14th - EU - 11th | Last of Us Part II sold over 10 million copies
August - US - 10th - EU - 7th
September - US - 11th - EU - 15th | Last of Us Part I release date
November - US - 4th - EU - 4th | 12th GSD Europe
December - US - 7th - EU - 5th - JP - 15th

2023
January - US - 7th - EU - 7th | Last of Us Show TV Premiere
February - US - 1st - EU - 1st - JP - 9th | 18th NPD | 7th GSD Europe
March - US - 9th - EU - 10th | Season Finale
April - US - 1st - EU - 1st - JP - 15th | 5th GSD Europe
July - US - 12th - EU - 11th

- Sales slowed down in 2021
- Sales increased a lot in 2022, making the top 10 on the PSN Downloads charts in both regions.
- Strong sales began when The Last of Us Part I was released.
- Making the GSD Top 20 rankings 3 times within the last year.
- Slight increase in Japan sales.


The sales are way past 10 million now.

 

[kazuyamishima]

I made a BIG mistake, the 18.6m units figure is for the entire sales of the last of us ps3 version and the last of us remastered on ps4.

 

[Majormaxxx]

Why is The Last of Us selling 18+ million in more than 8 years considered good but The Last of Us 2 selling 10+ million in less than 2 years considered a failure? lol

Here we go again.

Because it should have sold more. It's not a new IP. It's a sequel to a beloved classic from a studio which people adored. They ran it into the ground just to make drück's art project.


Did drück alienate and said f U to half of the fans or not? If he hadn't spat in the face of the fans would the game had sold more?

 

[ProtoByte]

Decent profit is more important than units sold. But it’s clear that the narrative changes whenever people want to.

The leaks only confirms that Sony 1st party games are profitable, Daniel Ahmad said back in 2020 that the 1st party game don’t make any money at all and that Sony makes their money from subscriptions (which they also make money from them).

Still, there will be people saying their games don’t make money at all.

Their games are profitable, but it's clear that just selling games alone is not the business play to sustain themselves going forward, like I and others might want it to be.

Even I was expecting a larger gross on stuff like GoW 2018. Puts into perspective why they're not dropping prices so much anymore.

Of the 2-3 billion in profit they make in any given year, their first party titles do not make up a very large fraction of that. Thr only reason we get single player games of this caliber is because they are first party.

 

[Killer8]

Does the data break down exactly how much profit each of these games made (eg. we know that some of Insomniac's own games like Sunset Overdrive made a mere $567 lol).

Sales numbers alone can be pretty meaningless. I can't see it written anywhere whether this counts bundled sales too. Bloodborne, Driveclub and Uncharted 4 all had bundles from my memory, and probably more.

Also if you sell 5 million units, but 90% of those sales came from 75% holiday discounts, it's not exactly the same as selling 5 million units at the full $60 RRP now is it? Games like Days Gone and DriveClub can still be flops with high unit sales - and that's not even getting started on budgeting.

 

[Shadowstar39]

Nothing confusing about any of this. The Driveclub studios was not under Sony's jurisdiction, and neither is Fromsoftware. Are we really that mournful of no Bloodborne stuff with as many From games and from wannabees we get?

As for Days Gone, I'm sorry, but the game really wasn't all that. The game was price dropped quicker than any recent 1st party game I can remember for a reason. Before and after release, before the politics came out in full force and the creatives did their woe is me routine, no one was capping for it like that. One second you guys want new IP, the next you want sequels to mediocrity. Well, Bend is doing a new IP that probably isn't going to retread aspects of TLOU this time.

Days gone wasn't just like tlou2, it had a protagonist that guys like me (a 40 something year old man who grew up gaming) can relate to. A biker trying to track down his wife with his best friend. Way more relatable than an angry lesbian and the manly woman beating Joel (who people loved in TLOU) with a golf club, and I say this as someone who adored the first tlou.

Days gone had unique mechanics that you won't find anywhere. Name me one game where your bike is part of your character and you have to upgrade and fuel it up or push it. Where running out of fuel at the wrong time means life or death. Where having to deal with hoards of 100s-1000s of zombies. What they could of done with that tech on PS5 , we will never see sadly.

 

[Allandor]

Those are life time sales. So the numbers include every sold license (e.g. PSN games or reduced prices). What matters for most developers is how the game sold in the first few month.

Just to remind you at the words of the Days gone developer. So high sales figures till now, don't say the the game was successful for the developer.

 

[DForce]

Here we go again.

Because it should have sold more. It's not a new IP. It's a sequel to a beloved classic from a studio which people adored. They ran it into the ground just to make drück's art project.


Did drück alienate and said f U to half of the fans or not? If he hadn't spat in the face of the fans would the game had sold more?

No PlayStation exclusive game sells 18 million copies in 2 years unless it is significantly bundled.

 

[Fake]

Why is The Last of Us selling 18+ million in more than 8 years considered good but The Last of Us 2 selling 10+ million in less than 2 years considered a failure? lol

You mean the remastered version that cost 90% less to make than the first AA?

What do you think remastering a game cost in comparison with a big release?

For the cost of production, the TLOUS remasted sold very very sucefull.

 

[kyussman]

7m for Days Gone makes me happy........looking forward to the sequel!!!!!!!!

 

[TGO]

Please this coming from a game that most of us thought shouldn't have existed in the first place, since the 1st game ended perfectly. I think selling another 10+ million is overly great!

100% agree
But that's not the discussion.

 

[Crayon]

I wouldn't have cared much about any of these leaks seperatly, but taken all together, they're really quite good.

 

[kazuyamishima]

Their games are profitable, but it's clear that just selling games alone is not the business play to sustain themselves going forward, like I and others might want it to be.

Even I was expecting a larger gross on stuff like GoW 2018. Puts into perspective why they're not dropping prices so much anymore.

Of the 2-3 billion in profit they make in any given year, their first party titles do not make up a very large fraction of that. Thr only reason we get single player games of this caliber is because they are first party.

The average selling price was lower in the PS4 era, GOW 2018 went to $19.99 pretty quickly and about 1 year and a half later it was $9.99.

The PS5 era seems to be different in a sense that they are following a different strategy, games like GOW:R is possibly more profitable now than the entire sales of GOW 2018 even including the PC Version.

It’s clear that 3rd party games, DLC and MTX are still their main profit source. But they are getting better at the 1st party revenue.

 

[Lord Panda]

Any firm figures on how many The Order 1886 units sold through?

 

[Majormaxxx]

Any firm figures on how many The Order 1886 units sold through?

At least 1. I bought it and don't regret it. In fact I reinstalled it the other day on my ps5

 

[kazuyamishima]

Ragnarok is at 15m units sold in just 1 year.

People will say that it was bundled, but the majority of bundles were $560. So the game wasn’t really free.

 

[jm89]

Any firm figures on how many The Order 1886 units sold through?

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Any firm figures on how many The Order 1886 units sold through?

I bought 2 copies so add me to the tally.

 

[Majormaxxx]

Lou2 should have been much more successful because it was standing on the shoulders of lou1.

You were the chosen one, lou2.

Compare this to what happened between Uncharted 1 and 2 and how beloved and successful Uncharted 2 was.

Anyways

 

[Majormaxxx]

I bought 2 copies so add me to the tally.

Do you have two consoles or just sold the first copy

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Do you have two consoles or just sold the first copy

I bought it digitally and then physically for the collection.

Edit: Thinking a bit I think I've double dipped (first digitally and then physically) on a ton of Sony games: TLOU 2, Ghost of Tsushima, Death Stranding, Days Gone, Gravity Rush 2, etc.

 

[Nonehxc]

Skimming the data, some things I noticed:

- The middle columns are sell-through
- Ballparking it, if you look at Net Sales / copies sold, most games trend to around $30-40 NS per copy (excluding budget games and remasters which are lower)
- Digital games have edged up to 44% for 2021 games. For older games it was in the mid 30s
- Regionally, Sony USA (I think that would include Canada and Latin America) has the highest sales portion, it's growing each year and the $$$ portions are even higher. So it means people in North America region pay the highest prices

Obviously US pays more. You can find physical To Be Released games on offer all the time in Europe, specifically Spain where I live. MSRP is whatever, lets say 69-79 but retailers do crazy discounts all the time before launch. Obviously Sony and other publishers knows the perception of 'Lol lets slap 69 on this but then we offer retailers discounts that in turn pass onto customers and the perception is yeah this shit came down lets buy it!!'. I think the thought is to eke less from every game sold but in turn eke more from the increased sales volume you get with offers.

Like getting Super Mario RPG for 31 euros launch day with a nice big poster as gift.

Or Super Mario Wonder for 36 euros. Don't remember what I got with it, must look at my drawer of free promotional shit.

Tears of the Kingdom with a leather travel label with TOTK triforce emblem embossed for 36 euros.

Spider-Man 2 for 52 euros. There was no free shit inside the package, not even cobwebs.

Final Fantasy VII Rebirth will get to me in 2 months and change with DLC and a Limited Edition exclusive steelbook for a mere 53 euros.

Each and everyone of these on launch day, sealed and spanking new from the biggest retailer chains here.

Many times I buy and enjoy a game which then I don't care about keeping on my library and then I flip it for more than I paid.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You just made this a 10/10 game for the "media reviewers."

 

[Thaimasker]

Yep... same thing xbox did with Halo, Gears, forza for years.... before 2nd part of 360 gen they had more games... Just like Sony has become now a GOW, Horizon, Tlou, Spiderman factory. Sprinkled in with GT every gen. eventually it will bite them in the ass.

Forza is way more popular now. Halo and gears just stopped being great.
Sony is still working on multiple big new I.P's...some single player, some online multiplayer...and some i.p's that haven't been milked yet like ghosts

Regardless, most people aren't even buying Sony consoles for exclusives unlike Nintendo.

 

[StereoVsn]

Sorry bro but these are mostly PS4 era sales. Pre 2022.

Latest figures from Sony's own fiscal year reports state that the digital split is now 75% for their first party games.

That includes DLC and digital only games. It’s not 75% on digital for big SP titles, especially if you go worldwide and not just NA.

 

[Jakk]

Why is The Last of Us selling 18+ million in more than 8 years considered good but The Last of Us 2 selling 10+ million in less than 2 years considered a failure? lol

Because some people here are either delusional or trolling.

 

[Joshmyersbv]

Looking at the Last of Us 2 and how much it sold it explains why they're releasing the remaster of it. The amount of hype that's surrounded the game before launch and for it to only sell that much is a disappointment.

Also, I'm not buying that the Last of Us 2 is sitting around 15 million units sold. Are we really suggesting that from 2022 until now, it sold 5 million extra copies? I don't think there's been a game in this industry that's been able to pull those kind of numbers 3 years after it releases.

 

[DaGwaphics]

The greatest leak of all time. insane sales for Days gone and DriveClub. I dont understand Sony.

I don't know the $ of it, but the final sell through doesn't necessarily tell the full story. How many of the sales were for $60, or $40 or $15. Sometimes you get a game that doesn't sell all that great, but is still a good game and these sell a lot of units at deep discount at holidays and store sales years after release. You then have an elevated sales total that doesn't necessarily jive with the financial performance.

Like I said, I have zero idea of the particulars behind DG or DC, but it is something to consider. Though the net sales for DG doesn't look bad there, but I guess if they spent an exorbitant amount making it.

 

[Kerotan]

You could do a $10 upgrade if you owned only one of the two games, of course it wasn't gonna be a big seller, at all.

Yeah all these remasters don't include people who went for $10 upgrades like death stranding.

 

[DForce]

Others keypoints:

- TLOU2 is a failure compared to TLOU1. The game on PS4 benefitted from 100 millions of PS4 but failed to sell more than TLOU remastered on the same console. They went woke with the story and killed the main protagonist of the beloved IP. Imagine if Nintendo decided to kill Mario and replace him with something else.
- Bloodborne is potentially a monster IP but they let it rot completely
- The best IPs they have on PS5 (IPs they fully own, not that bad Marvels deal) is Demon's Souls (sold twice more than Returnal) and Ratchet but they decided to put all their chips on IPs they don't own and a GAAS venture that is already failing.

The Last of Us sold 18.2 million copies in 7 years/ 6 months
The Last of Us Part II sold 9.6 million copies in 1 year/8 months

That's nearly a 6 year gap.

Yeah, let's call Spider-Man 2 a failure because it hasn't sold more than Spider-Man 1.

 

[SlimySnake]

Why is The Last of Us selling 18+ million in more than 8 years considered good but The Last of Us 2 selling 10+ million in less than 2 years considered a failure? lol

Because that’s just tlou1 remastered which came out a year after the original game already sold millions on ps3.

Real numbers are 27 million vs 10 million since 37 million series sales is what nd had announced before part 1 remake came out.

I’m sorry but this simply means that the sequel will never even come close to topping the first game. And sequels are supposed to shatter the records of the first game.

the game has a very mixed reception among its fanbase and word of mouth simply wasn’t as great as tlou1. Of course if you kill the main character then you risk alienating a huge portion of the series fanbase and that’s exactly what’s happened here. Neil simply made the stupid decision to kill off the main reason why people loved that game. He thought he was George r r Martin killing off the main character in book one, but unlike him, he didn’t have characters like tyrion, danerys and Jon snow to take over as leads. Instead he made us play as Joffrey.

 

[Joshmyersbv]

Because that’s just tlou1 remastered which came out a year after the original game already sold millions on ps3.

Real numbers are 27 million vs 10 million since 37 million series sales is what nd had announced before part 1 remake came out.

I’m sorry but this simply means that the sequel will never even come close to topping the first game. And sequels are supposed to shatter the records of the first game.

the game has a very mixed reception among its fanbase and word of mouth simply wasn’t as great as tlou1. Of course if you kill the main character then you risk alienating a huge portion of the series fanbase and that’s exactly what’s happened here. Neil simply made the stupid decision to kill off the main reason why people loved that game. He thought he was George r r Martin killing off the main character in book one, but unlike him, he didn’t have characters like tyrion, danerys and Jon snow to take over as leads. Instead he made us play as Joffrey.

If you look at everything that led up to the release of The Last of Us 2, there was no reason why it shouldn't have done more than the first one.

It's the sequel to one of the most critically acclaimed games in the PS3 console generation. It's on next generation hardware, and it's coming from Sony's premium studio's A Team.

 

[Ogbert]

If you consider how aggressive Sony is with sales and discounts, those numbers are quite underwhelming.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

There are lot of games that didn't sell very high and still got sequel. If FROM interested making one then they would have regardless of sales, that what made them willing to make Armored Core VI because they were passionate about the IP.

There are 14 Armored Core games because From was happy with their ROI.

There is one Bloodborne game because From was not pleased with its ROI.

You are right however, when you say "If a developer + publisher chooses to make a game then they will make a game."

 

[TheDreadLord]

The average selling price was lower in the PS4 era, GOW 2018 went to $19.99 pretty quickly and about 1 year and a half later it was $9.99.

The PS5 era seems to be different in a sense that they are following a different strategy, games like GOW:R is possibly more profitable now than the entire sales of GOW 2018 even including the PC Version.

It’s clear that 3rd party games, DLC and MTX are still their main profit source. But they are getting better at the 1st party revenue.

The main issue with Sony releases is that their ROI is too low. You can find investment opportunities with very low risk that will return the same profit Sony had. This means that they are less attractive to investors. So, Sony seriously need to streamline production and reduce these budgets.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

If you look at everything that led up to the release of The Last of Us 2, there was no reason why it shouldn't have done more than the first one.

It's the sequel to one of the most critically acclaimed games in the PS3 console generation. It's on next generation hardware, and it's coming from Sony's premium studio's A Team.

Pre release and post release discussion was completely negative. Yeah that can kill momentum

 

[Danjin44]

There are 14 Armored Core games because From was happy with their ROI.

There is one Bloodborne game because From was not pleased with its ROI.

You are right however, when you say "If a developer + publisher chooses to make a game then they will make a game."

I will give you another example, this game is SUPER niche!

But not only it got sequel but it also getting re-release in Jan 2024.

Nintendo are not making this game "to make money" but because they care about the IP.

 

[Joshmyersbv]

Pre release and post release discussion was completely negative. Yeah that can kill momentum

I know some story stuff leaked before release which I'm sure didn't help. Word of mouth is what carries game sales passed that initial year and a half. So if word of mouth is negative that essentially kills the legs of the game.

 

[Hypereides]

Others keypoints:

- TLOU2 is a failure compared to TLOU1. The game on PS4 benefitted from 100 millions of PS4 but failed to sell more than TLOU remastered on the same console. They went woke with the story and killed the main protagonist of the beloved IP. Imagine if Nintendo decided to kill Mario and replace him with something else.
- Bloodborne is potentially a monster IP but they let it rot completely
- The best IPs they have on PS5 (IPs they fully own, not that bad Marvels deal) is Demon's Souls (sold twice more than Returnal) and Ratchet but they decided to put all their chips on IPs they don't own and a GAAS venture that is already failing.

Almost 50% drop in units sold. Really curious what TLOU3 would do, TLOU2 rode on Part 1's succes and still had massive sales drop.

Because that’s just tlou1 remastered which came out a year after the original game already sold millions on ps3.

Real numbers are 27 million vs 10 million since 37 million series sales is what nd had announced before part 1 remake came out.

I’m sorry but this simply means that the sequel will never even come close to topping the first game. And sequels are supposed to shatter the records of the first game.

the game has a very mixed reception among its fanbase and word of mouth simply wasn’t as great as tlou1. Of course if you kill the main character then you risk alienating a huge portion of the series fanbase and that’s exactly what’s happened here. Neil simply made the stupid decision to kill off the main reason why people loved that game. He thought he was George r r Martin killing off the main character in book one, but unlike him, he didn’t have characters like tyrion, danerys and Jon snow to take over as leads. Instead he made us play as Joffrey.

Shocker. I bet Dr.Uckmann & Co. would refuse to admit that could be the correlation between it not even meeting half of TLOU1. They might've done some olympic mental gymnastics over there to find some alternative coherent reasoning.

 

[Blood Borne]

GT Sport sold 8m as of the end of 2019.

Got a link for this?

 

[Flutta]

From what i see on social media they love days gone and the zombie battles

it wasn't woke enough.... i thought Sony cared more about money than delivering a message. Times have changed.

 

[Barakov]

Hell of a way to end the year Sony.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I will give you another example, this game is SUPER niche!

But not only it got sequel but it also getting re-release in Jan 2024.

Nintendo are not making this game "to make money" but because they care about the IP.

You are confused my friend.

This is not a discussion about niche vs not niche. This is a discussion about ROI and opportunity cost.

 

[Flutta]

7m for Days Gone makes me happy........looking forward to the sequel!!!!!!!!

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

Days Gone was legit a good game. A few pacing issues and yea the story could be bad in a few spots but it achieved what it set out to. Fighting hoards of zombies while on a motorcycle was simply good fun.

 

[Danjin44]

You are confused my friend.

This is not a discussion about niche vs not niche. This is a discussion about ROI and opportunity cost.

You think Bloodborne didn’t got sequel because it didn’t sold high enough but if FROM wanted to make sequel they would have regardless of sales…..that true with most games.

NieR Gestalt not only didn’t reviewed well but also sold poorly but that didn’t stop Yoko Taro and Square to make NieR Automata.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

You think Bloodborne didn’t got sequel because it didn’t sold high enough but if FROM wanted to make sequel they would have regardless of sales…..that true with most games.

NieR Gestalt not only didn’t reviewed well but also sold poorly but that didn’t stop Yoko Taro and Square to make NieR Automata.

You are correct. If a publisher + developer wanted to make a particular game, they would do so.

 

[EDMIX]

insane sales for Days gone and DriveClub. I dont understand Sony.

Well....its a loaded statement.

Days Gone not getting a sequel wasn't even a "Sony" thing, to my understanding someone within Sony's Bends team didn't wish to go forward with a sequel, they opted instead for a new IP.

DriveClub was also delayed and had lots of issues with the team, enough that I feel its sales wasn't enough for Sony to overlook all the issues with the team.

Delays cost money too folks... So when you are costing Sony GT money, but not moving GT units.....yea, shit will happen lol

 

[GHG]

Got a link for this?

Gran Turismo Sport Has Sold an Estimated 8 Million Copies

A recent report from a hedge fund has suggested a new sales figure for Polyphony Digital's Gran Turismo Sport. It's a big one too, with the copy total coming in at an estimated 8 million. That headline figure comes about midway through a massive 102-page document called "A Stronger Sony". In it,

www.gtplanet.net

And then a subsequent report stating over 14 million players (not sales, a couple of million could have been from used physical copies circulating) in early 2022:

Gran Turismo Sport passes 14 million players as Gran Turismo 7 release draws near

That's a lot of traffic.

www.gamepur.com