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AMD's Radeon Navi Review Thread: Series 5700.

Feb 15, 2013
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The self-defeating Nvidia fans were gloating before release that Navi XT couldn't compete with Turing, let alone Turing refresh 'Super'.

I got news for you - 5700XT not only competes with Turing's 2070, it's faster.

Here's the thing, at the initial performance demo where AMD showed Navi comparable to Turing 2070, everyone assumed that was best case. Reality was it's 5-10% slower I was told. NOPE!
 
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Larogue

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TL;DR By the numbers then, the Radeon RX 5700 XT holds an 11% performance advantage over its nearest competition, NVIDIA’s new GeForce RTX 2060 Super. Similarly, the RX 5700 (vanilla) takes a 12% advantage over the RTX 2060 (vanilla). So NVIDIA was right to shift their product stack last week in preparation for today’s AMD launch, as AMD is now delivering the performance of what was last week a $500 video card for as little as $350.
 
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Evilms

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Dec 16, 2018
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Reality is :



Card with blowers in 2019 !!!
No backplate for the RX 5700 unlike the RTX 2060.
No ray tracing.
Less efficient hardware video encoding.
No Variable rate shading.
No DLSS.
Noisy in gaming.
High temperatures.
No crossfire support unlike the 2070 Super.
Limited Overclocking on This founders model.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
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Reality is :



Card with blowers in 2019 !!!
No backplate for the RX 5700 unlike the RTX 2060.
No ray tracing.
Less efficient hardware video encoding.
No Variable rate shading.
No DLSS.
Noisy in gaming.
High temperatures.
No crossfire support unlike the 2070 Super.
Limited Overclocking on This founders model.
No green on the box
Not named after a famous scientist
Not made by a company with nVIDIA in its name
...
 

Leonidas

"Ask me about computers"
Mar 6, 2007
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Yup, pretty much as expected. With the price drop they are decent, but still not worth it for me because of the lack of next-gen features. Couldn't imagine buying a $350+ GPU only to have it beaten in features by a console a year later...
 

Panajev2001a

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Yup, pretty much as expected. With the price drop they are decent, but still not worth it for me because of the lack of next-gen features. Couldn't imagine buying a $350+ GPU only to have it beaten in features by a console a year later...
I think you will have a rude awakening once they are out and they start beating on the RT drum and your nVIDIA card with RTX on will be asking for an update or to lower the resolution even more than it does now ;).
 

Ascend

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Jul 23, 2018
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Card with blowers in 2019 !!!
No backplate for the RX 5700 unlike the RTX 2060.
No ray tracing.
Less efficient hardware video encoding.
No Variable rate shading.
No DLSS.
Noisy in gaming.
High temperatures.
No crossfire support unlike the 2070 Super.
Limited Overclocking on This founders model.
I seriously hope you're joking...
 
Jul 29, 2013
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Yup, pretty much as expected. With the price drop they are decent, but still not worth it for me because of the lack of next-gen features. Couldn't imagine buying a $350+ GPU only to have it beaten in features by a console a year later...
They would be sitting pretty good, but these blowers are loud and the cards have issues overclocking. I would not recommend them over Nvidia counterparts. If we get $399 partner AiBs then I would recommend the 5700 XT over 2060S, but at $450 vs $399 once again the 2060S is the way to go.
 

Evilms

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I seriously hope you're joking...
No backplate :pie_thinking:
vs backplate



 
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LordOfChaos

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This is particularly interesting... While Anandtech was testing the different aspects, Navi is weaker at everything compared to Vega, except FP texture fillrate... The Navi cards lose in Tessellation, Pixel fillrate, Integer texture fillrate, INT8 buffer compression and FP32 buffer compression. And then...;





Also, when they tested Metro Exodus, the Navi cards actually did quite well, while at other sites they didn't. On the other websites, Hairworks, which uses tessellation, is likely hampering the Navi cards, since Anandtech specifically disabled hairworks, other websites most likely didn't.



Some weirdness going on with the other synthetic tests, and he also says the state of launch drivers for OpenCL is quite poor.
 

R600

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Reality check for AMD fanboys thinking these cards could have launched at the original price.

5700 > 2060 (comfortably at better price)
5700XT > 2060S and 2070 (better at better price)

Thats all there is to it. I cant wait for a year or two for AMD to finally pump some of that R&D money from ZEN to put some fight to Nvidia because it was getting out of the hand.

Probably rare sight to see worse companies for consumers then Intel and Nvidia.
 
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Ascend

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No backplate :pie_thinking:
vs backplate



Would you pay more just for a backplate? Would you sacrifice performance just for a backplate? I know I wouldn't.

Who uses Crossfire/SLI nowadays? Even if you put two cards together, there is literally zero support out there for using multiple GPUs in games. And if you mine, you don't need SLI/Crossfire.

DLSS was a joke argument, considering AMD's has their own version of it and is actually superior according to the reviewers that tested it.

So again, I seriously hope you're joking. If those are really arguments to not get these cards, I can't help but conclude that you have an irrational bias.
 

LordOfChaos

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Looks like that completely outsized Particle Physics subscore was real, from multiple results coming in. Interesting. Given AMD seems to be going for a hybrid RT approach for RDNA 2.0 in 2020, I wonder if this was a half step towards building out this portion of the chip for it.

https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/compute/4259036


Navi at 200,000+ FPS, even under CUDA the 2080TI does 80,000
 
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Tesseract

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this thread is shaping up exactly as i'd hoped
 
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Ascend

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Looks like that completely outsized Particle Physics subscore was real, from multiple results coming in. Interesting. Given AMD seems to be going for a hybrid RT approach for RDNA 2.0 in 2020, I wonder if this was a half step towards building out this portion of the chip for it.

https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/compute/4259036


Navi at 200,000+ FPS, even under CUDA the 2080TI does 80,000
AMD said RT wouldn't arrive until the next RDNA release, but they didn't say these cards would not support it. Maybe they simply can't advertise it now since the drivers are not ready for DXR suport. Because that physics score really is interesting... I wouldn't be surprised if these cards ended up supporting it, at least on the software side.

Not that I would recommend anyone to count on it. These cards are better value at this point though.
 

LordOfChaos

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AMD said RT wouldn't arrive until the next RDNA release, but they didn't say these cards would not support it. Maybe they simply can't advertise it now since the drivers are not ready for DXR suport. Because that physics score really is interesting... I wouldn't be surprised if these cards ended up supporting it, at least on the software side.

Not that I would recommend anyone to count on it. These cards are better value at this point though.
Software RT can even run on Vega, so I'd imagine the logic responsible for calculating particle trajectories would also speed up calculating ray tracing. Curious to see that tested. That particle physics score is way, way faster than any other card tested.


 
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Panajev2001a

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Software RT can even run on Vega, so I'd imagine the logic responsible for calculating particle trajectories would also speed up calculating ray tracing. Curious to see that tested. That particle physics score is way, way faster than any other card tested.


Fast enough to make me think of benchmark optimised driver... thoughts?
 

llien

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Feb 1, 2017
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So, 5700, quite a bit faster than 1080, for $350, beats Turing at power consumption.



Just need to wait for AIBs (August).
 
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JohnnyFootball

The Last of Us may be third person, but it is hardly third person.
Jan 20, 2014
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Reality check for AMD fanboys thinking these cards could have launched at the original price.

I love how you and Remji spin this as a bad thing

Performance Summary​
Price​
Relative Performance​
Relative
Perf-Per-Dollar​
RX 5700 XT vs RTX 2060 Super
$399​
+11%​
+11%​
RX 5700 vs. RTX 2060
$349​
+12%​
+12%​
RX 5700 XT vs RTX 2070 Super
$399/$499​
-5%​
+19%​



To be completely honest with you, I am actually pleasantly surprised. The results are actually pretty solid. I was afraid that it would be trading blows, but for the most part AMD mostly wins the battles it should win.

Gamers now have a choice. Pay a little more and get minimal RTX, but less non-RTX performance or pay a little less get a little more non-RTX performance.
 
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Remij

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I love how you and Remji spin this as a bad thing
What spin? Saying what Gamers Nexus is saying?

Nobody is arguing that a cheaper price for the same hardware isn't better... but don't pretend like AMD played some con on Nvidia with this shit.. give me a damn break. AMD look weak dropping their prices. It's not because they wanted to..it's because they had to. That's not spin... that's just a fact.
 

Woo-Fu

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Some weirdness going on with the other synthetic tests, and he also says the state of launch drivers for OpenCL is quite poor.
Sounds similar to the animated textures problem in modded minecraft on AMD at the moment. You take a significant performance hit for animated textures, but only on AMD. Anybody playing modded on amd who isn't already aware of it should check out how much better a pack will run if you disable animated textures in foamfix.
 
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JohnnyFootball

The Last of Us may be third person, but it is hardly third person.
Jan 20, 2014
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What spin? Saying what Gamers Nexus is saying?

Nobody is arguing that a cheaper price for the same hardware isn't better... but don't pretend like AMD played some con on Nvidia with this shit.. give me a damn break. AMD look weak dropping their prices. It's not because they wanted to..it's because they had to. That's not spin... that's just a fact.
"Im not buying their card, because eventhough the performance per dollar is better, they looked WEAK dropping their prices! I buy GPUs from makers who talk tough and don't change their price"

- said no gamer ever.
 
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JohnnyFootball

The Last of Us may be third person, but it is hardly third person.
Jan 20, 2014
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The one area where I have no hesitation in shitting on AMD is their choice of the blower design. Nvidia has drastically improved on their Founders Edition cards and made their cards an attractive choice, while if you want the best AMD experience you will need a more expensive AIB.
 
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Remij

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"Im not buying their card, because eventhough the performance per dollar is better, they looked WEAK dropping their prices! I buy GPUs from makers who talk tough and don't change their price"

- said no gamer ever.
That's true, just don't talk shit acting like AMD played Nvidia and dropped the price on some 5D chess shit. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

AMD dropped the price because they know their products weren't worth it at only $50 less.
 

JohnnyFootball

The Last of Us may be third person, but it is hardly third person.
Jan 20, 2014
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That's true, just don't talk shit acting like AMD played Nvidia and dropped the price on some 5D chess shit. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

AMD dropped the price because they know their products weren't worth it at only $50 less.
I'm pretty sure I didn't ever make the comment that nvidia got played. Personally, I couldn't care what reason AMD chose. Dropping the price is a win for gamers.

I'll say the same thing if Intel responds with more aggressive price cuts of their 9th gen CPUs.
 
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demigod

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No backplate :pie_thinking:
vs backplate



Do all cards have backplates nowadays? IIRC, not all 1080 GTX had them, only certain brands did.
 

Remij

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Personally, I couldn't care what reason AMD chose. Dropping the price is a win for gamers.

I'll say the same thing if Intel responds with more aggressive price cuts of their 9th gen CPUs.
Sure it's a win for gamers... but again... AMD is simply doing what's necessary for their cards to sell. It was a reaction... not some plan.. and nobody but AMD fanboys are fooled.
 
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JohnnyFootball

The Last of Us may be third person, but it is hardly third person.
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Sure it's a win for gamers... but again... AMD is simply doing what's necessary for their cards to sell. It was a reaction... not some plan.. and nobody but AMD fanboys are fooled.
It is what it is. I'm just grateful that gamers do have a choice. They get to choose between better bang (albeit slightly) for the buck in non-ray tracing scenarios with AMD (unless noise and shit blower design aren't considerations) OR going with slightly more expensive cards with some more advanced features (although those features aren't anywhere remotely close to fully realized on the 2060S or 2070S).
 
Jul 29, 2013
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The one area where I have no hesitation in shitting on AMD is their choice of the blower design. Nvidia has drastically improved on their Founders Edition cards and made their cards an attractive choice, while if you want the best AMD experience you will need a more expensive AIB.
The broken overclocking is a big problem too. TPU, Guru3d, and GamersNexus mentioned having problems. The OC I did see was like 5%, most 2060S/2070S oc 9-10%. That puts the 2060S right up on the 5700XT and now we wait for partner AiB because the blower is shit.

As for pricing, I'd guess the more affordable 2-3 fan models will go for $429, while the premium stuff goes for $449. At RX 480 launch, I held off on the $239 6-pin blower reference card and got a 8-pin Red Devil 3-fan design for $269. I hate blowers, they sound like Darth Vader trying to steam up a window.

At $429 for 5700 XT 2-3 fan, I think that's good value against the Supers.
 
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ethomaz

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The consecutive price drops are explained by what the card delivers... everybody expecting it to place between 2070 and 2080 but the disappointing reality was near 2070 basically tied there again showing PR benchmarks didn't say much.

At least the price now is right because Navi couldn't delivery the ethereal promise but maybe next one can.
 

JohnnyFootball

The Last of Us may be third person, but it is hardly third person.
Jan 20, 2014
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The consecutive price drops are explained by what the card delivers... everybody expecting it to place between 2070 and 2080 but the disappointing reality was near 2070 basically tied there again showing PR benchmarks didn't say much.

At least the price now is right because Navi couldn't delivery the ethereal promise but maybe next one can.
Nobody expected this at all. Is this a typo? The 5700 and 5700XT were supposed to fall between the original 2060 and 2070. Literally nobody said the 5700XT was supposed to compete with the 2080.

It accomplishes exactly what it needed to.
 

JohnnyFootball

The Last of Us may be third person, but it is hardly third person.
Jan 20, 2014
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The broken overclocking is a big problem too. TPU, Guru3d, and GamersNexus mentioned having problems. The OC I did see was like 5%, most 2060S/2070S oc 9-10%. That puts the 2060S right up on the 5700XT and now we wait for partner AiB because the blower is shit.

As for pricing, I'd guess the more affordable 2-3 fan models will go for $429, while the premium stuff goes for $449. At RX 480 launch, I held off on the $239 6-pin blower reference card and got a 8-pin Red Devil 3-fan design for $269. I hate blowers, they sound like Darth Vader trying to steam up a window.

At $429 for 5700 XT 2-3 fan, I think that's good value against the Supers.
Yes.
 

Ivellios

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After watching reviews im starting to consider Navi because of its price/performance advantage over the Supers.

Only thing that makes me pause is the utter lack of ray tracing on it.

Really difficult choice.
 

ethomaz

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Nobody expected this at all. Is this a typo? The 5700 and 5700XT were supposed to fall between the original 2060 and 2070. Literally nobody said the 5700XT was supposed to compete with the 2080.

It accomplishes exactly what it needed to.
Everybody hyped XT to be between 2070 and 2080...
 

JohnnyFootball

The Last of Us may be third person, but it is hardly third person.
Jan 20, 2014
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After watching reviews im starting to consider Navi because of its price/performance advantage over the Supers.

Only thing that makes me pause is the utter lack of ray tracing on it.

Really difficult choice.
You can't go wrong with a 2070S or a 5700XT. In regards to ray tracing on a 2070 or 2060, keep in mind you are not going to see ray tracing at it's best. I call them "ray tracing preview cards" Sure it works and you can get an idea of how it will work once it reaches it full potential, but you will have to drop the resolution to see that preview. I'm inclined to believe that most 2060S and 2070 owners might turn on ray tracing to see what the fuss is about and then turn it off once they realize it's not worth the performance penalty.

It's your call and you'll get a great gaming card regardless.
 
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JohnnyFootball

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Everybody hyped XT to be between 2070 and 2080...
I spent quite a bit of time in the Navi threads in recent weeks and I have no hesitation in saying that isn't true. At least not on GAF.
There might have been a poster here and there who said it, but it's total Fake News to say "everybody"

AMD never marketed it as a 2080 competitor. I quite frankly can't recall a single poster realistically expecting it compete with a 2080.
 
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thelastword

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Just got home, was just about to post this...Now this is the only review you need to see, thorough analysis from the benchmark King.....

5700 is 1% faster than 2060 Super

5700XT is 2% slower than 2070 Super


Remember, the Navi cards were supposed to go against the vanilla 2060 and 2070, but here are the results vs the Super Cards, don't even bother looking at Navi vs 2060 and 2070.....

Now what I want to know is where are the Anniversary benches? Which will clearly beat 2070 Super at $50 less, but the $400 5700XT is only 2% slower than the $500 2070 Super, and this is on an early driver with some 1% low issues, OC issues etc....New Architecture woes.....So you clearly don't need the anniversary to beat 2070 Super as I told folk, 5700XT with early drivers tells the whole story...….

Here's the gist, 5700XT at $400 is only 2% slower than the (2070 Super/RTX 2080), where the 2080 debuted at $800 for the FE....

This is a slam dunk by AMD, a 40CU card is even beating the RTX2080 in a few games, no wonder they need a 2080 Super....XT even gets within 2 frames on average in Forza 4 vs the $1200 2080ti......And more games are coming that will be using AMD's architecture.....Nvidia better be afraid of the 5800 and 5900 series of cards, it won't be pretty....So in essence, the Navi cards draw less power, has equal or better performance over Super and is much cheaper than the Super cards? Yes, that's about right......
 
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