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[plasmawave]

I think he pointed out this part because in a apocalyptic world or dangerous world being out while pregnant is not ok... even if they explain it... why is she out in a dangerous world? To me that is stupid.

She's a medic and it was her time for rotation but they got attacked by Seraphites. She wasn't on a combat patrol.

 

[sobaka770]

Oh man they did a post-review discussion and I had to stop at "they did Joel dirty twice" cause the character acted in character and not based on their fan-fic level imagination.
This is Joe's "favourite" character and he doesn't even understand Joel and his continuing trauma.

I'll tune in when he's back to reviewing games of his caliber: Halos, CoDs, REs, Spiderman etc..

 

[plasmawave]

Just because its explained in a few lines doesnt make it good, that is exacly a perfect example of terrible writting.

The world is turned to shit, there are flesh eating monsters, rapists, a serial killer on the loose (Ellie), and you let an 7-8month pregnant woman go out to the frontlines of battle? Specially with the person that the serial killer is after? With no backup?

They have no idea that Ellie is coming after her at the time. Ellie is no where near their base to begin with.
Also they were on rotation. Not on combat patrol.
You guys criticizing about bad writing but can't even get these simple facts right.

 

[DForce]

Just because its explained in a few lines doesnt make it good, that is exacly a perfect example of terrible writting.

The world is turned to shit, there are flesh eating monsters, rapists, a serial killer on the loose (Ellie), and you let an 7-8month pregnant woman go out to the frontlines of battle? Specially with the person that the serial killer is after? With no backup?

You're making no sense. You're telling me a character SHOULD act when this is a game about characters who happen to have flaws.

The game acknowledges her dumb decision. Nora later tells Abby to tell Mel to settle down. It's evident that Mel knew it was a dumb decision while she was getting stitches in the infirmary.


Bad writing would have characters ignore the fact that she's pregnant going into a battlefield.

 

[Ozrimandias]

I actually choked on my coffee. Congratulations. There is no way. None. Not even close. In a universe of endless possibilities, this forum has a better chance of developing sentience, forming a physical body and winning Nascar than TLOU 2 has of being the game of the generation.

So why not?

 

[InterMusketeer]

Bad writing would have characters ignore the fact that she's pregnant going into a battlefield.

No. Characters acknowledging something as dumb doesn't excuse the bad script. If Druckmann really wanted a pregnant lady out there in the wild for story reasons, he should've come up with a compelling and believable reason for her to do so.

Stating characters are flawed is not an excuse for idiotic behavior. The game keeps showing us how awful and dangerous this world is, but then asks you to sympathize with complete morons. It doesn't make any sense and pulls people out of the story.

 

[Clear]

No. Characters acknowledging something as dumb doesn't excuse the bad script. If Druckmann really wanted a pregnant lady out there in the wild for story reasons, he should've come up with a compelling and believable reason for her to do so.

Stating characters are flawed is not an excuse for idiotic behavior. The game keeps showing us how awful and dangerous this world is, but then asks you to sympathize with complete morons. It doesn't make any sense and pulls people out of the story.

These characters,like Ellie, will almost all have been born since the outbreak. This is all they know, its their normal.

Its not like they can take a weekend off and go and binge on Netflix LOL. What's Mel supposed to do? Sit around by herself in her bunk while her friends (and baby daddy) are off on patrol?

Think about what your arguing. Man, I swear the more discussion I've read about the game the more credit I give the writing and the more I lean towards the overall game direction being at fault.

 

[Vaelka]

You're making no sense. You're telling me a character SHOULD act when this is a game about characters who happen to have flaws.

The game acknowledges her dumb decision. Nora later tells Abby to tell Mel to settle down. It's evident that Mel knew it was a dumb decision while she was getting stitches in the infirmary.


Bad writing would have characters ignore the fact that she's pregnant going into a battlefield.

I don't really agree with this.
I don't think that just because they acknowledge later that it's stupid it somehow makes it okay.
The fact that it even happened to begin with is really unbelievable and stupid and I think that it does make it bad writing because it was just a way to shove her into the plot.
Making your character do a really stupid and unbelievable thing doesn't change what it was just because characters later go '' oh that was stupid wasn't it? Silly me, oops. ''.
I am not saying that characters can't make mistakes, but the mistakes at least have to make some semblance of sense and be believeable.

Mel being pregnant in the field makes even less sense when you consider the setting too, It'd even be more believable irl and that just wouldn't happen either.
Even tho they're a pretty large group they're still small all things considered, people didn't send women into battle historically because sending women into war would've been a great way to get your whole people killed collectively. Women just aren't replaceable while men are, one woman can only have so many children while a man can reproduce and infinite of times.
That kinda begs the question as to why have women in the field altogther but I can at least accept that because it's a video game. But when you make her pregnant too you just make it so much dumber and draw so much attention to it that it t akes me out of it completely.

I also think that it's kinda dumb and tropey when everyone is pregnant, like if you have to rely on something like that I just think that it speaks for a lack of confidence in your writing and characters. But that's another thing.
It's kinda like how they constantly throw kids into movies just to make the main character '' relatable '' because oh don't you see he's a '' family man '' and he loves his family soooooo much just like you love yours. It's just so cliché and dumb and I find it annoying.

These characters,like Ellie, will almost all have been born since the outbreak. This is all they know, its their normal.

Its not like they can take a weekend off and go and binge on Netflix LOL. What's Mel supposed to do? Sit around by herself in her bunk while her friends (and baby daddy) are off on patrol?

Think about what your arguing. Man, I swear the more discussion I've read about the game the more credit I give the writing and the more I lean towards the overall game direction being at fault.

War and living in constant fear of being attacked and killed has been normal throughout most of human history.
If you want to use that logic then women shouldn't be in the field altogether, sending women out in the field would be disastrous to your population and group survival.

I am not saying that this should've been the case in the game.
But when you make a woman pregnant you're drawing so much more attention to this which makes it so absurd.
The only reason why this would ever work is if pregnant women had plot armor irl.
Gameplay is one thing, but lore wise are these people really supposed to be rambo and take on five thousand people on their own?

Everyone else also grew up or have at least adapted to that world.
They're also killers and aren't pregnant.
This is just another stupid trope in survival shows too, like how in Walking Dead the heroes are these rambo badasses who kill these faceless npcs en masse. It kinda makes it feel a bit stupid when you really think about it. Especially when non main characters or new characters are completely incompetent and yet have managed to survive somehow. It's like the main characters are these Jesus figures or something. Or when a hero picks up a sword with no training and kills hordes of trained elite soldiers.

Again tho, making your character pregnant on top of being a woman ( in this setting ) just draws A LOOOOOOOOT more attention to this and makes it dumber.

 

[CrysisFreak]

I don't understand people's problem with the storytelling when they say it's convoluted and pretentious.
It's actually super fucking easy to understand. Don't know about others but it really gripped me as soon as our boy got killed. From that point onwards shit was ON.

 

[InterMusketeer]

Think about what your arguing.

I could say the same to you. Are you seriously arguing that Mel should go outside to a world filled with hordes of zombies and hostile groups because "she's got nothing better to do" ? You actually expect people to accept that because she's a flawed character?

Yes, Mel should just stay at home, keeping her unborn child safe. It's exactly because these people are born in this harsh world, and have survived in it for many years that I expect them to be cautious and capable.

 

[bargeparty]

I don't really agree with this.
I don't think that just because they acknowledge later that it's stupid it somehow makes it okay.
The fact that it even happened to begin with is really unbelievable and stupid and I think that it does make it bad writing because it was just a way to shove her into the plot.
Making your character do a really stupid and unbelievable thing doesn't change what it was just because characters later go '' oh that was stupid wasn't it? Silly me, oops. ''.
I am not saying that characters can't make mistakes, but the mistakes at least have to make some semblance of sense and be believeable.

Mel being pregnant in the field makes even less sense when you consider the setting too, It'd even be more believable irl and that just wouldn't happen either.
Even tho they're a pretty large group they're still small all things considered, people didn't send women into battle historically because sending women into war would've been a great way to get your whole people killed collectively. Women just aren't replaceable while men are, one woman can only have so many children while a man can reproduce and infinite of times.
That kinda begs the question as to why have women in the field altogther but I can at least accept that because it's a video game. But when you make her pregnant too you just make it so much dumber and draw so much attention to it that it t akes me out of it completely.

I also think that it's kinda dumb and tropey when everyone is pregnant, like if you have to rely on something like that I just think that it speaks for a lack of confidence in your writing and characters. But that's another thing.
It's kinda like how they constantly throw kids into movies just to make the main character '' relatable '' because oh don't you see he's a '' family man '' and he loves his family soooooo much just like you love yours. It's just so cliché and dumb and I find it annoying.



War and living in constant fear of being attacked and killed has been normal throughout most of human history.
If you want to use that logic then women shouldn't be in the field altogether, sending women out in the field would be disastrous to your population and group survival.

I am not saying that this should've been the case in the game.
But when you make a woman pregnant you're drawing so much more attention to this which makes it so absurd.
The only reason why this would ever work is if pregnant women had plot armor irl.
Gameplay is one thing, but lore wise are these people really supposed to be rambo and take on five thousand people on their own?

Everyone else also grew up or have at least adapted to that world.
They're also killers and aren't pregnant.
This is just another stupid trope in survival shows too, like how in Walking Dead the heroes are these rambo badasses who kill these faceless npcs en masse. It kinda makes it feel a bit stupid when you really think about it. Especially when non main characters or new characters are completely incompetent and yet have managed to survive somehow. It's like the main characters are these Jesus figures or something. Or when a hero picks up a sword with no training and kills hordes of trained elite soldiers.

Again tho, making your character pregnant on top of being a woman ( in this setting ) just draws A LOOOOOOOOT more attention to this and makes it dumber.

Move on. Just because you don't agree doesn't make it bad writing.

And making certain characters pregnant creates themes and parallels that usually literature... do on purpose.

And I say again, people do stupid shit in real life all the time.

 

[FALCON_KICK]

Angry Joe extended discussion on Last of Us 2.

No. Characters acknowledging something as dumb doesn't excuse the bad script. If Druckmann really wanted a pregnant lady out there in the wild for story reasons, he should've come up with a compelling and believable reason for her to do so.

Stating characters are flawed is not an excuse for idiotic behavior. The game keeps showing us how awful and dangerous this world is, but then asks you to sympathize with complete morons. It doesn't make any sense and pulls people out of the story.

Pregnant lady fighting has nothing to do with bad script or idiotic behavior and everything to do with pushing SJW Feminist agenda.

All The Last of Us 2 leaks/spoilers in here and nowhere else.

The problem is that this is never demonstrated to the player that he has softened. We spent no time with Joel except at the opening scene and the ride back to Jackson through the pile of people he and Tommy killed. We get a little time with him as Abby where he saves her and shows us he hasn’t...

www.neogaf.com

Post arguing about the pregnant woman fighting in TLOU2, it is a SJW feminist agenda. Here are the 2 latest marvel comic books examples

Spoiler: Pic 1 in SJW agenda driven comics

Spoiler: Pic 2 in SJW agenda driven comics

 

[GribbleGrunger]

You can’t prove or disprove “bad writing” as in all arts beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It doesn’t matter if there is logical consistency or whatever if a story runs people the wrong way they get to call it “bad” and for them they are right.

People just need to accept that not everyone thinks the same way about art. You may think you have “an objective opinion” but lol if you do then you are fooling yourself.

Erm ... no

 

[Clear]

I could say the same to you. Are you seriously arguing that Mel should go outside to a world filled with hordes of zombies and hostile groups because "she's got nothing better to do" ? You actually expect people to accept that because she's a flawed character?

Yes, Mel should just stay at home, keeping her unborn child safe. It's exactly because these people are born in this harsh world, and have survived in it for many years that I expect them to be cautious and capable.

Bullshit. In this world life is cheap. Especially with Seattle being one big warzone.

Her value as a member in the WLF is that her skills can keep more of Isaac's soldiers fighting, which requires her presence in the field, and being a medic she's always in need of protection from her comrades.

She's a soldier with a support speciality role, not a breeder. The distinction between these roles is intrinsic to Lev's backstory.

 

[bargeparty]

Erm ... no

Red Letter Media has definitely watched some of these movies.

 

[HotPocket69]

Straight baffling to me that tools like this and that retarded Rad Brad have such a large following, but Im also not between the ages of 12-18 so what the fuck do I know. Kids and boring dummies eat this diarrhea up all day.

 

[InterMusketeer]

Her value as a member in the WLF is that her skills can keep more of Isaac's soldiers fighting, which requires her presence in the field, and being a medic she's always in need of protection from her comrades.

She's a soldier with a support speciality role, not a breeder. The distinction between these roles is intrinsic to Lev's backstory.

She's a doctor, not some field medic like you're making her out to be.

Lev was part of a cult. Far as I know the WLF is not a cult and they don't have "breeders."

 

[Clear]

She's a doctor, not some field medic like you're making her out to be.

Lev was part of a cult. Far as I know the WLF is not a cult and they don't have "breeders."

They are basically as bad as each other. The WLF may not present itself as a cult but they treat deserters like the Scars treat apostates. Or did you not get the bonus encounter in Ellie's story with the 4 fleeing ex-WLF members?

Either way, Mel doesn't die at the hands of the "enemy", she dies because thanks to Abby she ends up in Ellie's crosshairs - a threat that comes straight out of left-field.

Honestly, to me this line of criticism makes as much sense as people insisting the Ellie should kill Abby at the end. Like why? Joel killed everyone at the end of the first game, and it still came back to haunt him and get him killed.

Its understandable that characters in the story don't see this, as what Joel did, he did by himself, but as people who've apparently played the original game and have witnessed it first hand.... how obtuse do you have to be not get that its no better or safer an outcome for Ellie as a character.

 

[InterMusketeer]

They are basically as bad as each other. The WLF may not present itself as a cult but they treat deserters like the Scars treat apostates. Or did you not get the bonus encounter in Ellie's story with the 4 fleeing ex-WLF members?

This doesn't have anything to do with the original argument. WLF doesn't have women used for breeding only, Mel is valuable in multiple ways and incredibly vulnerable in her pregnant state, so she shouldn't be out and about.

Either way, Mel doesn't die at the hands of the "enemy", she dies because thanks to Abby she ends up in Ellie's crosshairs - a threat that comes straight out of left-field.

Again, doesn't matter, and wasn't the original argument.

Joel killed everyone at the end of the first game, and it still came back to haunt him and get him killed.

Wrong. Joel doesn't necessarily kill anyone in the first game except the doctor and Marlene during a cutscene. You can finish the hospital section without killing any of the soldiers. Joel killing "everyone" is rewriting history.

Its understandable that characters in the story don't see this, as what Joel did, he did by himself, but as people who've apparently played the original game and have witnessed it first hand.... how obtuse do you have to be not get that its no better or safer an outcome for Ellie as a character.

Well that's another issue I have with the game: the message is flawed and makes no sense. The game tries to show us that taking revenge against your father's killer doesn't work. Just look at Abby's nightmares, which continue even after killing Joel! That means it wouldn't have worked for Ellie either! But there's actually nothing to back this claim up at all. Perhaps taking revenge would have helped Ellie get over her trauma. We don't know. Even if we just put our faith in the writers, and honestly believe this wouldn't have worked for Ellie either, SHE doesn't know that! She's still on her quest for revenge, and during the final scene she feels like she can't let Abby go. Then, at the climax when Abby's about to drown, Ellie suddenly stops for no obvious reason. Abby has a reason to look for other ways to get over her trauma. Ellie doesn't. That's the entire reason she was on this second trip in the first place.

Let's go even deeper. Joel might have done horrible things in the past, but when we meet him in Part II he's a much kinder man, saving complete strangers from a horde of zombies. What does that get him? Right, it gets him tortured and killed. Just because you stop the cycle of violence, it doesn't mean a happy life's waiting for you. That's what the game teaches us. When I see Ellie on that farm, all I'm thinking is that one of the people she's wronged in the past could show up on the horizon one day. Or it could just be a horde of zombies attacking this relatively unprotected location. How would this have been a happy end? I don't buy it.

 

[Krappadizzle]

Straight baffling to me that tools like this and that retarded Rad Brad have such a large following, but Im also not between the ages of 12-18 so what the fuck do I know. Kids and boring dummies eat this diarrhea up all day.

Dude's been doing detailed reviews for the better part of 12 years, but yeah, must be the 12-18 year old that are keeping him going.

Sorry your feefees are hurt he doesn't like the thing you like. Shit like your trash ass condescending comments are the reason he no longer comes onto GAF anymore. I miss the good ol' days....sometimes.

 

[Roufianos]

From a GameSpot editor as well.

 

[Piku_Ringo]

From a GameSpot editor as well.

I guess one thing this editor and TLOU2 have in common is that they are both equally full of complete shit

 

[HotPocket69]

Dude's been doing detailed reviews for the better part of 12 years, but yeah, must be the 12-18 year old that are keeping him going.

Sorry your feefees are hurt he doesn't like the thing you like. Shit like your trash ass condescending comments are the reason he no longer comes onto GAF anymore. I miss the good ol' days....sometimes.

Nothings hurt Krappa lol. There’s always gonna be 12-18 year olds keeping him going.

“Trash ass condescending comments”

 

[DForce]

No. Characters acknowledging something as dumb doesn't excuse the bad script. If Druckmann really wanted a pregnant lady out there in the wild for story reasons, he should've come up with a compelling and believable reason for her to do so.

Stating characters are flawed is not an excuse for idiotic behavior. The game keeps showing us how awful and dangerous this world is, but then asks you to sympathize with complete morons. It doesn't make any sense and pulls people out of the story.

With Thor for not going for the head? Or StarLord being distracted after finding out Gamora died and Thanos breaking free from their grasp?

These decisions pull you out of the story more than anything else.

It was Issac decision for them to go to FOB, a secure location for them to meet up with another group.

Stating characters are flawed is not an excuse for idiotic behavior.

That's because humans in general are not perfect. They don't always make sound decisions.

I don't really agree with this.
I don't think that just because they acknowledge later that it's stupid it somehow makes it okay.
The fact that it even happened to begin with is really unbelievable and stupid and I think that it does make it bad writing because it was just a way to shove her into the plot.
Making your character do a really stupid and unbelievable thing doesn't change what it was just because characters later go '' oh that was stupid wasn't it? Silly me, oops. ''.
I am not saying that characters can't make mistakes, but the mistakes at least have to make some semblance of sense and be believeable.

Mel being pregnant in the field makes even less sense when you consider the setting too, It'd even be more believable irl and that just wouldn't happen either.
Even tho they're a pretty large group they're still small all things considered, people didn't send women into battle historically because sending women into war would've been a great way to get your whole people killed collectively. Women just aren't replaceable while men are, one woman can only have so many children while a man can reproduce and infinite of times.
That kinda begs the question as to why have women in the field altogther but I can at least accept that because it's a video game. But when you make her pregnant too you just make it so much dumber and draw so much attention to it that it t akes me out of it completely.

I also think that it's kinda dumb and tropey when everyone is pregnant, like if you have to rely on something like that I just think that it speaks for a lack of confidence in your writing and characters. But that's another thing.
It's kinda like how they constantly throw kids into movies just to make the main character '' relatable '' because oh don't you see he's a '' family man '' and he loves his family soooooo much just like you love yours. It's just so cliché and dumb and I find it annoying.

These are so bad that I'll respond to them at once.

Dumb character decisions that make no sense and can be considered bad writing are what you find in the movie Avengers. Thor doesn't go for the head and StarLord is easily distracted after finding out Thanos killed Gamora.


These decisions pull you out of the story more than anything else.

It was Issac decision for them to go to FOB, a secure location for them to meet up with another group.

As Mel said from the beginning.

Manny: What are you getting called up for?
Mel: Just the usual rotation, don't worry.

Their plan was not for her to fight, their plan for us was to travel to another secure location.


Traveling to another location is not believable? Mind you, this is a location with another medic (which Mel is) is needed.

Her "dumb decision" comes from not asking to stay, putting her child at a potential risk of being killed. She was better off stay on base instead of traveling to another location. It's believable that she is willing to travel, which is different than what you guys are portraying that she is a pregnant woman looking to fight in battle.

Traveling to another location makes less scene?

Not at all.There's a reason why she would go to another location, but it's still not safe, thus not asking to stay makes the decision dumb, even in retrospect.

 

[InterMusketeer]

With Thor for not going for the head? Or StarLord being distracted after finding out Gamora died and Thanos breaking free from their grasp?

Why're you bringing those dumb Marvel movies into this? Is that supposed to be an argument?

That's because humans in general are not perfect. They don't always make sound decisions.

You keep repeating this like it excuses bad writing. It does not. If people make certain choices we need to understand why they make them, and it needs to be a believable decision for that character.

The rest of your post is borderline incoherent, so I won't reply to that.

 

[DForce]

Why're you bringing those dumb Marvel movies into this? Is that supposed to be an argument?


You keep repeating this like it excuses bad writing. It does not. If people make certain choices we need to understand why they make them, and it needs to be a believable decision for that character.

The rest of your post is borderline incoherent, so I won't reply to that.

I just explained how it's believable and it's explained why they made those choices. I didn't surprise me that you would just repeat what you said before and label it as bad writing.

The rest of your post is borderline incoherent, so I won't reply to that.

You mean that you can't other than just to repeat what you said earlier. You guys are trying to way too hard to prove it's bad writing while ignoring dialog in the process.

That's not a good look for someone who is trying to debate a topic about bad writing.

 

[MiguelItUp]

"his review of The Last of Us Part 2 is just an extended diatribe of his sexist/misogynistic views. "
This guy is just as bad as the ones that "hate" TLOU2 because it is overflowing with "SJW agendas." Jesus Christ.

 

[DForce]

Why're you bringing those dumb Marvel movies into this? Is that supposed to be an argument?

It's an example of bad writing.

That should've been clear.

 

[Paracelsus]

Why're you bringing those dumb Marvel movies into this? Is that supposed to be an argument?

You keep repeating this like it excuses bad writing. It does not. If people make certain choices we need to understand why they make them, and it needs to be a believable decision for that character.

The rest of your post is borderline incoherent, so I won't reply to that.

The gender roles in TLOU rely on suspension of disbelief.
Humanity is nearly extinct. You don't send women, however armed, out on patrol in a world with no laws, filled with people looking to ambush, rob, rape and kill you.
If one of them is pregnant, and it was consensual, you retire her to the best guarded area of the base to make sure she can deliver the offspring.
It's a far assumption to make.

 

[nordique]

I just beat the game today and also watched this review

I liked the game but Joe drops a lot of fair points

 

[Keihart]

I don't really agree with this.
I don't think that just because they acknowledge later that it's stupid it somehow makes it okay.
The fact that it even happened to begin with is really unbelievable and stupid and I think that it does make it bad writing because it was just a way to shove her into the plot.
Making your character do a really stupid and unbelievable thing doesn't change what it was just because characters later go '' oh that was stupid wasn't it? Silly me, oops. ''.
I am not saying that characters can't make mistakes, but the mistakes at least have to make some semblance of sense and be believeable.

Mel being pregnant in the field makes even less sense when you consider the setting too, It'd even be more believable irl and that just wouldn't happen either.
Even tho they're a pretty large group they're still small all things considered, people didn't send women into battle historically because sending women into war would've been a great way to get your whole people killed collectively. Women just aren't replaceable while men are, one woman can only have so many children while a man can reproduce and infinite of times.
That kinda begs the question as to why have women in the field altogther but I can at least accept that because it's a video game. But when you make her pregnant too you just make it so much dumber and draw so much attention to it that it t akes me out of it completely.

I also think that it's kinda dumb and tropey when everyone is pregnant, like if you have to rely on something like that I just think that it speaks for a lack of confidence in your writing and characters. But that's another thing.
It's kinda like how they constantly throw kids into movies just to make the main character '' relatable '' because oh don't you see he's a '' family man '' and he loves his family soooooo much just like you love yours. It's just so cliché and dumb and I find it annoying.



War and living in constant fear of being attacked and killed has been normal throughout most of human history.
If you want to use that logic then women shouldn't be in the field altogether, sending women out in the field would be disastrous to your population and group survival.

I am not saying that this should've been the case in the game.
But when you make a woman pregnant you're drawing so much more attention to this which makes it so absurd.
The only reason why this would ever work is if pregnant women had plot armor irl.
Gameplay is one thing, but lore wise are these people really supposed to be rambo and take on five thousand people on their own?

Everyone else also grew up or have at least adapted to that world.
They're also killers and aren't pregnant.
This is just another stupid trope in survival shows too, like how in Walking Dead the heroes are these rambo badasses who kill these faceless npcs en masse. It kinda makes it feel a bit stupid when you really think about it. Especially when non main characters or new characters are completely incompetent and yet have managed to survive somehow. It's like the main characters are these Jesus figures or something. Or when a hero picks up a sword with no training and kills hordes of trained elite soldiers.

Again tho, making your character pregnant on top of being a woman ( in this setting ) just draws A LOOOOOOOOT more attention to this and makes it dumber.

The ability to NOT read subtext impresses me. Mel was fucking sulking about Abby and killing Joel, thus, she didn't want to stay on leave. This it's the whole point of them 3 going in to patrol together.
This it's all expanded upon before leaving the base, including the part about it being dangerous and Mel doing it recklessly despite knowing better.

Are you gonna tell me that an emotional pregnant woman will not want to work to distract herself?
Let's also not forget, that Owen's group seems to be known among the WLF and they repeatedly brake the rules without much consequence or enforcement of them.

 

[InterMusketeer]

I just explained how it's believable and it's explained why they made those choices. I didn't surprise me that you would just repeat what you said before and label it as bad writing.

It's not believable. When we meet the WLF characters in the stadium, they talk about how people've been dying at a faster rate and how it's dangerous out there. We even see the piles of bodies. Sure, let's send out the pregnant lady for the "usual rotation." That makes sense! The stadium is their primary base of operations and the best protected, ergo the safest. There's no in-universe need for Mel to go anywhere except that Druckmann & co's plot calls for it.

You mean that you can't other than just to repeat what you said earlier. You guys are trying to way too hard to prove it's bad writing while ignoring dialog in the process.

No I just don't have a clue what you're on about because your post is full of errors. Sorry about that.

It's an example of bad writing.

I'm not familiar with those movies. You probably shouldn't have assumed that.

Mel was fucking sulking about Abby and killing Joel, thus, she didn't want to stay on leave. This it's the whole point of them 3 going in to patrol together.
This it's all expanded upon before leaving the base, including the part about it being dangerous and Mel doing it recklessly despite knowing better.

Are you gonna tell me that an emotional pregnant woman will not want to work to distract herself?

If none of her friends or anyone else in the WLF stops the emotional pregnant lady jacked up on hormones from going on a dangerous mission, they all deserve to die for their idiocy. Thankfully that's what ultimately happens, and Druckmann's experiment in trying to get people to care for Abby and the WLF has failed.

 

[DForce]

It's not believable. When we meet the WLF characters in the stadium, they talk about how people've been dying at a faster rate and how it's dangerous out there. We even see the piles of bodies. Sure, let's send out the pregnant lady for the "usual rotation." That makes sense! The stadium is their primary base of operations and the best protected, ergo the safest. There's no in-universe need for Mel to go anywhere except that Druckmann & co's plot calls for it.

I noticed how you keep moving the goalpost throughout this discussion. First you thought they were sending her out into the battlefield when they were not. She was simply moving to another location.

Traveling to another location in a post-apocalyptic world is believable. What's also believable that a pregnant woman would put herself at risk.

No I just don't have a clue what you're on about because your post is full of errors. Sorry about that.

Or you just didn't pay attention to the story in general.


Just because a character doesn't do something you feel is right, doesn't mean its bad writing.

 

[InterMusketeer]

I noticed how you keep moving the goalpost throughout this discussion. First you thought they were sending her out into the battlefield when they were not. She was simply moving to another location.

"Shortly after Tommy, Ellie and Dina arrived in the city in pursuit of vengeance for Joel's death, Isaac had ordered all the WLF's soldiers to assemble at their Forward Operating Base (FOB) in preparation for a final attack against the Seraphites. Isaac admits to Abby that they are getting desperate and that this attack is their last gamble that he is willing to make.

According to Isaac, the group's victories are not absolute as enough small skirmishes are lost that there were a considerable number of dead WLF members at their FOB and Isaac personally believed the group could not keep taking such losses without losing the war in the long term.

Mel was assigned with Abby and Manny to head out to the FOB past the stadium, cleared for duty despite being in the late stages of pregnancy."

According to the wiki, they're essentially sending her out to assist in an attack against their enemy. I assume she's supposed to treat wounded at the FOB, or even at the frontlines. That's a dangerous place to be for a pregnant lady who might give birth soon. It'd make more sense if Abby and her group abandoned the WLF after finding out they were sending their vulnerable friend to the frontlines, even if Mel herself thought it was a good idea.

Traveling to another location in a post-apocalyptic world is believable.

Not for a pregnant lady, unless she, and everyone around her, is mentally challenged.

Just because a character doesn't do something you feel is right, doesn't mean its bad writing.

The justification for their actions are not explained in a satisfactory way, that's why it's bad writing. Doesn't have anything to do with my opinion on the decisions themselves.

 

[DForce]

"Shortly after Tommy, Ellie and Dina arrived in the city in pursuit of vengeance for Joel's death, Isaac had ordered all the WLF's soldiers to assemble at their Forward Operating Base (FOB) in preparation for a final attack against the Seraphites. Isaac admits to Abby that they are getting desperate and that this attack is their last gamble that he is willing to make.

Yes, Issac wants Manny and Abby to lead the first wave. Doesn't mention Mel.

According to Isaac, the group's victories are not absolute as enough small skirmishes are lost that there were a considerable number of dead WLF members at their FOB and Isaac personally believed the group could not keep taking such losses without losing the war in the long term.

Mel was assigned with Abby and Manny to head out to the FOB past the stadium, cleared for duty despite being in the late stages of pregnancy."

According to the wiki, they're essentially sending her out to assist in an attack against their enemy. I assume she's supposed to treat wounded at the FOB, or even at the frontlines. That's a dangerous place to be for a pregnant lady who might give birth soon. It'd make more sense if Abby and her group abandoned the WLF after finding out they were sending their vulnerable friend to the frontlines, even if Mel herself thought it was a good idea.

Doesn't say she will be a medic to treat the front lines. It was only said by Issac that Manny and Abby would lead the first wave. A first wave is not a straight all out attack from every member of the WLF. This also goes against your "it's not believable" narrative since Issac is desperate to kill the Scars and he is willing to send anyone and everyone out in the battlefield, even if they're pregnant.

This is also not the point in which Angry Joe was considering bad writing. He was talking about moving from base to base, not going out in the field.

Not for a pregnant lady, unless she, and everyone around her, is mentally challenged.


The justification for their actions are not explained in a satisfactory way, that's why it's bad writing. Doesn't have anything to do with my opinion on the decisions themselves.

It's clear you don't know what bad writing is. You keep changing your points midway through the discussion.


Did you actually play the game?

 

[Karppuuna]

How are people rating games nowadays. Is it like if they dont like the story the game is shit, even if all the other aspects are masterclass.
If i rate this game, the story 8-9, game play 9-10, sounds 10, accessible option 10.

Games are games and the TV series are TV series, the game play is the king if you ask me. Or are you seriously saying that example Uncharted or Assassins creed has great story.

 

[InterMusketeer]

Yes, Issac wants Manny and Abby to lead the first wave. Doesn't mention Mel.

But Mel is cleared for duty, whatever that duty may be. She's told to move to the forward base, which is closer to the frontlines and thus closer to danger.

This also goes against your "it's not believable" narrative since Issac is desperate to kill the Scars and he is willing to send anyone and everyone out in the battlefield, even if they're pregnant.

Perhaps Abby and friends should've abandoned the WLF earlier then, if the leadership is even willing to sacrifice pregnant women. That seems more in line with their character to me.

This is also not the point in which Angry Joe was considering bad writing. He was talking about moving from base to base, not going out in the field.

I'm not sure about Joe, but I don't think it matters. Moving from base to base is still dangerous for a pregnant woman in hostile territory with zombies all over the place. Zombies are found in supposedly cleared and safe places all the time. That happens throughout the game.

You keep changing your points midway through the discussion.

What was my initial point and how did I change it along the way? I'd be interested to know.

How are people rating games nowadays. Is it like if they dont like the story the game is shit, even if all the other aspects are masterclass.
If i rate this game, the story 8-9, game play 9-10, sounds 10, accessible option 10.

Joe covers this in his follow-up discussion video.

I'd rate the game a 7 myself. It gets -1 for leaving out the multiplayer mode, which I greatly enjoyed in the first game. Another -1 for outdated combat and gameplay, which has hardly evolved from the first game despite a massive budget and 7 years of development time. Another -1 for the mediocre story and writing. The game does have superb production values and those innovative accessibility options. It's not an awful game by any means, but it does have flaws. It does lean on its story quite a bit, so for some (including Joe) that weighs heavier in his score.

 

[DForce]

But Mel is cleared for duty, whatever that duty may be. She's told to move to the forward base, which is closer to the frontlines and thus closer to danger.


Perhaps Abby and friends should've abandoned the WLF earlier then, if the leadership is even willing to sacrifice pregnant women. That seems more in line with their character to me.


I'm not sure about Joe, but I don't think it matters. Moving from base to base is still dangerous for a pregnant woman in hostile territory with zombies all over the place. Zombies are found in supposedly cleared and safe places all the time. That happens throughout the game.


What was my initial point and how did I change it along the way? I'd be interested to know.

You changed it because you're not talking about what happened after the point. Medics being near the frontline is not unusual.

I asked before, did you play the game?

 

[Karppuuna]

I'd rate the game a 7 myself. It gets -1 for leaving out the multiplayer mode, which I greatly enjoyed in the first game. Another -1 for outdated combat and gameplay, which has hardly evolved from the first game despite a massive budget and 7 years of development time. Another -1 for the mediocre story and writing. The game does have superb production values and those innovative accessibility options. It's not an awful game by any means, but it does have flaws. It does lean on its story quite a bit, so for some (including Joe) that weighs heavier in his score.

Are you seriously saying that this has outdated game play, this have most advanced and dynamic game play what we have seen in the genre, sure if you play this like a pussy it could be bad.
If you compare this to Tomb Raider, Uncharted, Assassins creed, this is a whole another level. And this is coming for player how start playing this genre in Tomb Raider 1 back in the days.

 

[InterMusketeer]

You changed it because you're not talking about what happened after the point. Medics being near the frontline is not unusual.

Don't know what you're saying here. I changed my point because I didn't talk about something? Huh?

I told you Mel isn't just any old medic. She's a trained doctor, and the best one they've got. You don't just send those, while pregnant, to a dangerous forward base that has seen much enemy activity. Isaac might've found it a good idea, being desperate and all, but Abby and her buddies would never agree with this. They would definitely stop her because they care about Mel. Somehow they hardly resist at all though, and I think that's because it's convenient for what the writers wanted to achieve.

I didn't play the game myself as I don't have a PS4. I watched a friend play it.

Are you seriously saying that this has outdated game play, this have most advanced and dynamic game play what we have seen in the genre, sure if you play this like a pussy it could be bad.
If you compare this to Tomb Raider, Uncharted, Assassins creed, this is a whole another level. And this is coming for player how start playing this genre in Tomb Raider 1 back in the days.

Metal Gear Solid V came out years ago and had way more engaging stealth gameplay. TLoU2 has essentially the same gameplay as the first game, with minor changes and additions.

 

[DForce]

Don't know what you're saying here. I changed my point because I didn't talk about something? Huh?

I told you Mel isn't just any old medic. She's a trained doctor, and the best one they've got. You don't just send those, while pregnant, to a dangerous forward base that has seen much enemy activity. Isaac might've found it a good idea, being desperate and all, but Abby and her buddies would never agree with this. They would definitely stop her because they care about Mel. Somehow they hardly resist at all though, and I think that's because it's convenient for what the writers wanted to achieve.

I didn't play the game myself as I don't have a PS4. I watched a friend play it.

Now I get it.

You didn't play the game and you took what Angry Joe said at face value. You didn't know any of the before and after dialog in regards to that specific scene. When people try to point out how it make sense, you move the goalpost because you didn't know how the scenes played out.

If you're going to critize a game's "bad writing" at least play the game.

 

[InterMusketeer]

Now I get it.

You didn't play the game and you took what Angry Joe said at face value. You didn't know any of the before and after dialog in regards to that specific scene. When people try to point out how it make sense, you move the goalpost because you didn't know how the scenes played out.

If you're going to critize a game's "bad writing" at least play the game.

Yup, just disregard my arguments and opinions because I didn't hold the controller. I think we are done here.

 

[Karppuuna]

Metal Gear Solid V came out years ago and had way more engaging stealth gameplay. TLoU2 has essentially the same gameplay as the first game, with minor changes and additions.

Last of Us 2 isnt stealt game in the core, its dynamic combat game, its super dynamic if you let it to be. I honestly think that it push the genre forward.

 

[plasmawave]

But Mel is cleared for duty, whatever that duty may be. She's told to move to the forward base, which is closer to the frontlines and thus closer to danger.


Perhaps Abby and friends should've abandoned the WLF earlier then, if the leadership is even willing to sacrifice pregnant women. That seems more in line with their character to me.


I'm not sure about Joe, but I don't think it matters. Moving from base to base is still dangerous for a pregnant woman in hostile territory with zombies all over the place. Zombies are found in supposedly cleared and safe places all the time. That happens throughout the game.


What was my initial point and how did I change it along the way? I'd be interested to know.


Joe covers this in his follow-up discussion video.

I'd rate the game a 7 myself. It gets -1 for leaving out the multiplayer mode, which I greatly enjoyed in the first game. Another -1 for outdated combat and gameplay, which has hardly evolved from the first game despite a massive budget and 7 years of development time. Another -1 for the mediocre story and writing. The game does have superb production values and those innovative accessibility options. It's not an awful game by any means, but it does have flaws. It does lean on its story quite a bit, so for some (including Joe) that weighs heavier in his score.

"I haven't played the game but I rate this game 7/10"

And you think people are gonna give a shit what you think about the game?

 

[InterMusketeer]

"I haven't played the game but I rate this game 7/10"

And you think people are gonna give a shit what you think about the game?

Did I ever make that claim?

 

[sainraja]

I enjoyed the gameplay of Last of Us: Part 2 but the story wasn't anything special. I also enjoyed playing as Ellie over Abby - partly because of what she did but I just didn't find her that interesting and her character design doesn't help.

 

[Karppuuna]

This is what i mean, when i say the combat is super dynamic

 

[MagnesG]

I noticed how you keep moving the goalpost throughout this discussion. First you thought they were sending her out into the battlefield when they were not. She was simply moving to another location.

Traveling to another location in a post-apocalyptic world is believable. What's also believable that a pregnant woman would put herself at risk.

From what I understand doing "rotation" means covering up the parameters between the bases while removing any hazards. Which means they must be effectively able to confront enemies or doing skirmishes if needed, which they would always do most of the time, at least for the roaming zombie hordes.

A pregnant woman would put herself at risk if her life or her baby's is at risk, that's believable, not doing patrol work like what Mel does when her being at base is more secure, that's just pure stupid, instant red flag if this happened in real life. The military protocol for the group is a joke, basically wannabes who should've been destroyed long ago with this kind of practice.

 

[DForce]

Yup, just disregard my arguments and opinions because I didn't hold the controller. I think we are done here.

Because you don't know what's going on. You're making assumptions. Yeah, we're done.

 

[DForce]

From what I understand doing "rotation" means covering up the parameters between the bases while removing any hazards. Which means they must be effectively able to confront enemies or doing skirmishes if needed, which they would always do most of the time, at least for the roaming zombie hordes.

A pregnant woman would put herself at risk if her life or her baby's is at risk, that's believable, not doing patrol work like what Mel does when her being at base is more secure, that's just pure stupid, instant red flag if this happened in real life. The military protocol for the group is a joke, basically wannabes who should've been destroyed long ago with this kind of practice.

It only states they were going to FOB (Forward Operation Base) and location number 2. She's a medic and it doesn't say she was going there just to fight on the front lines. If they're going to make a frontal attack, then they're going to need as many medics are possible. Nora also says she's going to another hospital to bring over supplies. That's the same hospital where she encounters Ellie.