Very underwhelming. Also no character was likeable at all. Yeah it was tragic etc etc but Hannah was also extremely unlikeable as a character. The only one I truly felt bad for was Clay.
And Hannah almost ruined his life. I'm so annoying at the whole thing.
Thought about reading the book years ago, seemed like an interesting premise,. No idea it was turning into a tv show until I saw it pop up on Netflix. See the good reviews and that it has some broad appeal. Just got through 3 episodes, really liking it.
Just finished. Shit got far too real when that content warning popped up. Almost made me go back an episode to make sure I wasn't seeing things. God, this show. This show has me questioning decisions I made in high school. Honestly, this show/book should be required reading material for High Schoolers. I think it would help curb bullying to a degree.
As for the ending
I wanted more from Skye. She was the only person who wasn't really involved in the whole thing and because of that, she didn't really get much development which kinda sucked.
Hannah, I can't help but feel sorry for her, but at the same time I feel like she kinda threw Clay under the bus at the end. She says he hated her. But just minutes before, he was trying to talk to her like he does all the time. Clay was still very obviously her friend at that point. But I guess the point was that she was so far gone that she couldn't see it.
Which brings me to Clay. Dude's gonna need some serious therapy after all of this is done. Out of everyone in this show (Hannah excluded), I think he had it the worst. Dude got beat up by Bryce (fuck him, btw. I thought he was gonna be a neutral character until the ass grab and 1st rape), then Hannah has him listen to all these tapes. I mean his tape in particular. Fucking hell man. How do you not listen to that and feel like you could've stopped it? That's beyond brutal.
I don't see how Clay's parents let him do everything he did in this show, though. They were WAAAAYYYY too lax about everything.
EDIT:
Umm...ending spoilers I guess
So, I guess there's gonna be a second season? I was reading the changes from the book to the show and read up on Alex getting shot. It dawned on me that Alex is the blonde kid. I thought it was the photographer. So, Tyler shot Alex? That clearly means they're going for a season 2 since that plot thread is just left hanging, right?
This is awful. Some of the most predictable writing I've ever seen.
Any maybe it's cause i'm a child of refugees growing up somewhere totally foreign and hostile, but I couldn't care less about white problems like school bullying (and not even sure you can call it that). It just doesn't seem like real problems, everyone is way too oversensitive and has a lot of free time.
As someone who was bullied and watched a cheerleader's sexting pics go around, lots of this struck some cords for me. So, I guess the realness of it all depends on your background.
Does this do the Unfriended thing where it's all about her friends sharing some party photo or video on social media that caused her to be made fun of and she killed herself, except without the "coming back as a Skype ghost" part? Or is it deeper than that?
This was pissing me off so much. His whole deal about wanting to know but he won't listen to the fucking tapes. Just being fucking dramatic along the way. God dammit.
It gets better though. They've cut back on his melodrama and I'm really enjoying it it. Ep 6.
But can you really blame him? Dude loved the chick and everyone is telling him "wait until you get to your tape." I wouldn't wanna listen to mine only to find out I was her tipping point. Would you?
btw anybody know any shows like gossip girl? that's all i care to watch anymore but i've seen it three times. need more modern teen drama, don't see the point in anything else anymore tbh. wish netflix would revive it. why not
Do not know if serious and have not read entire thread yet to see if anyone else suggested this, but HBO is adapting Curtis Sittenfeld's novel Prep, which is excellent, and should be in the Gossip Girl vein of drama/comedy/high school hijinx/commentary on life, but maybe not quite as ridiculous as GG got at times.
Very underwhelming. Also no character was likeable at all. Yeah it was tragic etc etc but Hannah was also extremely unlikeable as a character. The only one I truly felt bad for was Clay.
And Hannah almost ruined his life. I'm so annoying at the whole thing.
So, I guess there's gonna be a second season? I was reading the changes from the book to the show and read up on Alex getting shot. It dawned on me that Alex is the blonde kid. I thought it was the photographer. So, Tyler shot Alex? That clearly means they're going for a season 2 since that plot thread is just left hanging, right?
Of course she knew, but since the very beginning (ep 2 I think?) she keeps calling Hannah a liar.
Just finished it yesterday evening and it hit me pretty hard.
The last 2 episodes were fucking brutal. I had to look away during the bath tub scene.
It's a really powerful show and the worst is that it's so fucking realistic.
At the beginning I was like "yeah allright I know she's gonna commit suicide" and in the end I was like "Please god no, let there be a Shyamalan twist!"
I wanted more from Skye. She was the only person who wasn't really involved in the whole thing and because of that, she didn't really get much development which kinda sucked.
That was definitely a bit lopsided. I wish we got more as well. But the idea behind
Skye is that after the tapes Clay was now a better person. He realized over the weeks he was listening to the tapes that Skye was his friend but for no real reason he stopped talking to her, and that the tattoos and cutting were obvious signs of someone who was hurting
Hannah, I can't help but feel sorry for her, but at the same time I feel like she kinda threw Clay under the bus at the end. She says he hated her. But just minutes before, he was trying to talk to her like he does all the time. Clay was still very obviously her friend at that point. But I guess the point was that she was so far gone that she couldn't see it.
They had been awkward to one another prior to that. The day she was raped by Bryce when she goes to get her last check Clay was trying not to be weird but definitely wasn't treating her normally. She thought she had pushed him away by having freaked out at Jessica's Party, but he was just confused and thought he had done something to set her off. She does describe him as a "shining light" for that scene,
but after she has her meeting with Mr. Porter she decides that it's never going to get better.
Which brings me to Clay. Dude's gonna need some serious therapy after all of this is done. Out of everyone in this show (Hannah excluded), I think he had it the worst. Dude got beat up by Bryce (fuck him, btw. I thought he was gonna be a neutral character until the ass grab and 1st rape), then Hannah has him listen to all these tapes. I mean his tape in particular. Fucking hell man. How do you not listen to that and feel like you could've stopped it? That's beyond brutal.
already had some serious therapy. Remember when they have breakfast in an early episode and his mom hands him a bottle of pills from the doctor? I'm guessing those were anti-depressants. Clay at least had the benefit of being the only person on the tapes that wasn't a complete scumbag to her. Yea,
they argued, but she says he was only included because she thought he deserved to hear her story. As shitty as it was to him, he does completely change after that point and starts looking for ways to get Bryce locked up and help Jessica cope with what really happened to her.
So, I guess there's gonna be a second season? I was reading the changes from the book to the show and read up on Alex getting shot. It dawned on me that Alex is the blonde kid. I thought it was the photographer. So, Tyler shot Alex? That clearly means they're going for a season 2 since that plot thread is just left hanging, right?
Alex shot himself. You see him cleaning his room the day of the depositions which is a common thing people do when they want to end their lives--they even mention/show Hannah cleaning up her room before she kills herself
. What was going on with
Tyler was he was getting ready to shoot up his school from being bullied so badly--especially by jocks like Monty
your comment about his age made me laugh. i watched an interview a few minutes ago where he said that he didn't have a drivers license and he needed to get one to drive the car in the show lol
your comment about his age made me laugh. i watched an interview a few minutes ago where he said that he didn't have a drivers license and he needed to get one to drive the car in the show lol
Just finished it - man - some heavy stuff. Makes me wish I could do high school differently if I went back in time.
And people who are saying they cant relate: its very real and happens all the time in America's schools.
The few stereotypical groups of students they had is real. Experienced plenty of bullying in my time. Some of that continued through high school - no wonder I got into a few fights.
Either way - this show is a really good lesson and is sad, its real and makes you think "what could I have done differently if I was there"
He already took therapy before and took pills for depression if i remember correctly. He was getting night sweats, and even mentions he gets anxiety attack. Starts seeing shit as well when listening to the tapes, starts seeing Hannah
I mean they give us plenty reasons to why Clay listens to the tapes so slow, but either way - if he just listened to them all at once - then the story wouldnt be so good - it would be all over the place and I dont think we would get a clear understanding of everything
I think my biggest problem with Hannah was the fact that she never asked for help. In her mind she always wanted someone to be there for her or to stay and work through things for her but she'd either be overly cryptic or vehemently push them away. Her thought process regarding Clay towards the end is extremely strange to me. Clay initiated talking with her following Jessica's party and later complimented her on her hair I believe and apologized for not being there for her so it's strange to me that she felt so alone or believed that he hated her. Also, why not talk to Clay about what's going on? If she truly felt like he was different from other guys and didn't feel as if he deserved to be on the tapes, why not reach out to him... Or to her own parents? I'd definitely speak to my parents before a counselor who has no personal investment in my life. Alas, these are teenagers and so I don't think logic is always at the forefront of their minds.
Regarding the counselor, I understand where he's coming from. Hannah was unwilling to work with him because he couldn't guarantee jail time for whomever raped her. She seemed intelligent and she'd have to know that Bryce's ultimate judgment wasn't left up to Mr. Porter. She had to realize that her doing nothing and killing herself allows him to walk free. If it wasn't for Clay, no one would answer for the things that they've done. Everyone would be kept in check by their secrets and holding them over one another. Mr. Porter failed to get her the help that she needed, since he was too concerned with his own family life.
Clay seriously needs to work out if he's going to be going around town and trying to exact vengeance against rich jocks, with everything to lose. I think it's ironic though that Bryce was the first person Hannah actually liked when she arrived in town. I loved the show, I just wish Hannah had done more to protect herself. Please don't come at me with that victim blaming shit, but why didn't she scream at least, when Bryce started assaulting her? There were people still at that party.
Yeah it autoplayed after the last episode. It felt very genuine and I think they nailed their vision for this. It was hard to listen to as well.
The fact suicide is the 2nd highest cause for teen deaths is crazy to me, but with the pressures especially now with the internet you're never truly away from bullies and the likes.
So this one is kind of complicated and I can only speak to my interpretation of it.
Tony says Clay killed Hannah, but he also says they all contributed. I think this was for several reasons.
The first is that he may have thought Clay wouldn't continue unless he thought he needed resolution--basically that Tony was playing a Gambit. If he says No to Clay, what's to say Clay doesn't just say "well then fuck this, I don't want to listen anymore." Tony needed to make sure Clay knew he was involved and played a part, but I think he also wanted Clay to hear how Hannah really felt about him.
The second has more to do with how Depression works. Generally people who suffer from depression cling on to a few things to justify working through it. In the case of Hannah, Clay was that thing. She explains during the party scenes that when he grabbed her hand and they walked outside she could see a future with him where she was happy. She only goes to the party because Clay invites her, and she wants to restart her life and tell him how she really feels about him--that he was that one sliver of hope for her. By the end of the tape we learn that things kind of implode between them, and Clay--thinking he screwed up somehow--kind of backs away from Hannah. Every other person mentioned did something hurtful to her that lead to them falling apart, but Clay didn't, and he was always the person that was nice to her and gave her hope. With that gone, what did she really have left?
The third is tied into the idea mentioned about the Butterfly Effect. Clay inadvertently started a chain of events that really fucked things up. Clay invites Hannah to the party and she comes because she wants to be with him. They hit it off and she has a PTSD-esque attack and pushes him away. If he stands up for what he wants and tells her how he feels nothing after that moment happens. But he leaves and then Jessica and Justin come in causing Hannah to hide, and she sees Bryce rape Jessica. After that she's in complete shock and drinks more until Sheri offers her a ride home and they hit the stop sign which inevitably leads to Jeff's accident and death. Jeff was one of Clay's best friends, and was always pushing him to go after Hannah and helping him out--we find this out when they're talking at the party. After that she wants to try and work things out any way, so she tries taking initiative with her parents store. She gets distracted by Clay and forgets the money bag on the roof of her car, and then loses it, and when she stops to see him he's very distant/awkward with her. Her parents freak out about it, and she goes for her walk which leads her to Bryce's party, which is when she gets raped by him. Basically Clay was the tipping point for her. If he had ever told her how he felt rather than being so passive odds are most of the bad stuff that happened to Hannah either wouldn't have happened or wouldn't have mattered.
I think Tony mentions that his tape was going to be bad because Tony is actually a great friend to Clay, and knows that once he listens to the tape it's going to hurt him. And it does hurt him, very badly. I think the definitive scene to explain why Clay made the list was the theoretical scene if he stayed instead of leaving at Jessica's party, and she response with "Why didn't you say any of this when I was alive?" If at any point in time Clay had just told Hannah how he felt about her she most likely wouldn't have killed herself. Clay and Mr. Porter are the only two that could have stopped Hannah realistically.
I think my biggest problem with Hannah was the fact that she never asked for help. In her mind she always wanted someone to be there for her or to stay and work through things for her but she'd either be overly cryptic or vehemently push them away. Her thought process regarding Clay towards the end is extremely strange to me. Clay initiated talking with her following Jessica's party and later complimented her on her hair I believe and apologized for not being there for her so it's strange to me that she felt so alone or believed that he hated her. Also, why not talk to Clay about what's going on? If she truly felt like he was different from other guys and didn't feel as if he deserved to be on the tapes, why not reach out to him... Or to her own parents? I'd definitely speak to my parents before a counselor who has no personal investment in my life. Alas, these are teenagers and so I don't think logic is always at the forefront of their minds.
Regarding the counselor, I understand where he's coming from. Hannah was unwilling to work with him because he couldn't guarantee jail time for whomever raped her. She seemed intelligent and she'd have to know that Bryce's ultimate judgment wasn't left up to Mr. Porter. She had to realize that her doing nothing and killing herself allows him to walk free. If it wasn't for Clay, no one would answer for the things that they've done. Everyone would be kept in check by their secrets and holding them over one another. Mr. Porter failed to get her the help that she needed, since he was too concerned with his own family life.
Clay seriously needs to work out if he's going to be going around town and trying to exact vengeance against rich jocks, with everything to lose. I think it's ironic though that Bryce was the first person Hannah actually liked when she arrived in town. I loved the show, I just wish Hannah had done more to protect herself. Please don't come at me with that victim blaming shit, but why didn't she scream at least, when Bryce started assaulting her? There were people still at that party.
I think thats pretty realistic for someone who commits suicide. If someone knows how to ask for help they are able to get treatment and dramatically lower the risk. Now as for her not doing more about the rape people's bodies respond to trauma differently. She's in a state of shock and after all that's happened she might even think she had it coming in the moment.
Just finished it - man - some heavy stuff. Makes me wish I could do high school differently if I went back in time.
And people who are saying they cant relate: its very real and happens all the time in America's schools.
The few stereotypical groups of students they had is real. Experienced plenty of bullying in my time. Some of that continued through high school - no wonder I got into a few fights.
Either way - this show is a really good lesson and is sad, its real and makes you think "what could I have done differently if I was there"
I'm only on episode 6 and I want to cry just thinking about this show - I'm sure the ending is going to devastate me.
I had a really difficult time in high school as a painfully shy lower-middle class girl (one of the few students on financial aid) at a preppy New England boarding school. I guess I could see how other cultures would think this show is ridiculous, but for me it's very real, right down to the groups of students. Several kids at my small school committed suicide during my 4 years there, and this was before cell phones. I can't imagine what it's like now.
The book the show is based on is actually taught in school and has been required reading for both students and parents in some school districts.
Up to episode 9. Jessica's party has been alluded to several times now. I can only imagine what went down. I'm going to guess after an incident there is when Hannah cut her hair.
For some reason I am irrationally angry that Clay is taking so long to listen to the tapes. It will probably take an hour of his life! Just listen, someone died!
Anyways on episode 5 and it is pretty good so far, keeps you wanting to keep watching.
The only people I know that like it are mid 20's to 30's women who only read teen fiction; I would never in a million years take recommendations from any of them.
You guys make this sound like it's worth a watch at some time.
For some reason I am irrationally angry that Clay is taking so long to listen to the tapes. It will probably take an hour of his life! Just listen, someone died!
Anyways on episode 5 and it is pretty good so far, keeps you wanting to keep watching.
Yea, his character is pretty frustrating. I imagine it seemed to go by much faster in the book. Having it visualized across a thirteen-part series makes it seem gruelingly long.
Yea, his character is pretty frustrating. I imagine it seemed to go by much faster in the book. Having it visualized across a thirteen-part series makes it seem gruelingly long.
Good read about book vs. show differences and some opinions about if they were good or bad.
I haven't read the book but it sounds like the changes helped with character development and fleshing out some of the characters as well as adding some more topical elements to the story.
What do you mean? To clarify, Clay listens to Hannah's tapes in a single night as he's riding around town. At least, that's what I read in some articles. Seems they also changed the sexual orientation of some characters. Also, best boy
Jeff
didn't exist in the books. He was just a nameless face =/
What do you mean? To clarify, Clay listens to Hannah's tapes in a single night as he's riding around town. At least, that's what I read in some articles. Seems they also changed the sexual orientation of some characters. Also, best boy
Jeff
didn't exist in the books. He was just a nameless face =/
It's hard to explain. Like, after he starts listening to a tape in the show, it starts with her voice-over and then goes full flashback. Is that supposed to be Clay's interpretation, or visualization, of what she's saying or is that supposed to be 100% what happened earlier in the show?
And in the book is there just a huge section where Hannah's literally taking over (when clay plays the tapes)? Or is it a kind of back-and-forth between the tapes and Clay's thoughts?
I gotta give props to the show for having ending spoilers
Alex's gradual down-spiral be a backseat plot. Like, he progressively gets worse, yet absolutely nobody takes notice or even cares. It's Hannah all over again. I think most other shows would've tried to make all of this more apparent, but the subtle way they did this was nice. It's also pretty depressing.
It's hard to explain. Like, after he starts listening to a tape in the show, it starts with her voice-over and then goes full flashback. Is that supposed to be Clay's interpretation, or visualization, of what she's saying or is that supposed to be 100% what happened earlier in the show?
And in the book is there just a huge section where Hannah's literally taking over (when clay plays the tapes)? Or is it a kind of back-and-forth between the tapes and Clay's thoughts?
that's my interpretation of it as well. at least for the scenes where clay isn't present. tony makes it a point to emphasize that
its Hannah's truth when clay talks about how she got some details wrong (i.e. when he finds out zach kept her letter, and when jessica says that its hannah that ended their friendship with her and alex
)
it'd probably need to do a re-watch though as some things are fuzzy.
that's my interpretation of it as well. at least for the scenes where clay isn't present. tony makes it a point to emphasize that
its Hannah's truth when clay talks about how she got some details wrong (i.e. when he finds out zach kept her letter, and when jessica says that its hannah that ended their friendship with her and alex
)
it'd probably need to do a re-watch though as some things are fuzzy.
Ohhhhh I wasn't thinking of that, the idea of what the victim perceives your actions to be, even if some of it may be misinterpreted, versus how you intend for them to come off. That's pretty good!
