wait it looks worse the closer you get to the ground I didn't even know that LOL.
but that's not what you're doing you're mad at people for thinking demon souls is the best looking game they've ever seen. Who cares if they feel that way? I don't remember posts like this from you when professional journalists were calling gears 5 the best looking game ever made never mind just random people on neogaf. I don't remember you coming in to say PC games are better or whatever other crap. In fact it's the only recent example I can think of where game journalists called a game the best looking game of all time. Your problem always seems to be that people who like Sony games on here think they're really good looking, which is like fine I feel like you should have your say but not if it's that your opinion is factual in theirs isn't but again I question why it doesn't matter to you that professional media outlets with far bigger audiences than a neogaf poster say things like this.When it concerns subjectivity, you are right. And I tend to stay away from that. But when you start talking about specifics of what does what and what graphics engines are doing, I have to step in as a professional and clear things up.
No, I wasn't thinking of optimization. I'm just always amazed at the demo's the engine guys make and it's almost always the best looking stuff. I just feel like hardware for hardware, there is no way consoles should be able to keep up. Like if lets say Uncharted 4 was made for PC only, I think that game would look amazingly better at least I think it should. I'm not just talking about higher resolution or better frame rates. Bigger world, more NPCs, more particles, just more of everything and even better. Or I might just not be understanding PC hardware.All games take full advantage of PC hardware. The PC isn't a closed platform. Its' an open platform and always will be. A game that doesn't exercise the GPU well enough will show during a profile. A game like AC:Valhalla, for example, uses over 96% of the GPUs bandwidth and compute power. It's a very well optimized game for an open platform game that compiles to many other platforms.
You guys are misled into thinking the PC "should" be optimized like a console. It never will be but should always be fully utilized. That's the reason why it outperforms consoles and offers better graphics features.
I didn't dismiss his credentials I told you he's not a video game developer he's not going to tell you different. I said if we're going to do appeal to authority fallacy we might as well get the opinions of video game developers. But I was still acknowledging it's a fallacy and I don't subscribe to it the whole point was to meet him on his playing field. If you guys really think experience means so much then surely any video game developer could come in here and override his viewpoint since he's never developed a video game.I'm not buying that at all honestly. Especially with your post history in this regard. But whatever you think makes you look and feel better. I never said he's Jesus Christ himself, I just pointed out the fact that you are slick dissing him and his credentials is all. You don't know what I want or any of that, which is irrelevant, and trying to switch the focus to me, for whatever reason you are trying to evade? Again, I'm just pointing out the obvious, no need to get bent out of shape over it. You don't have to be able to afford a PC to realize why it is the defacto of gaming hardware, it's just annoying to hear y'all try and downplay it because your wearing rose tinted/sony fanboy glasses. That is all.
but that's not what you're doing you're mad at people for thinking demon souls is the best looking game they've ever seen. Who cares if they feel that way?
Your problem always seems to be that people who like Sony games on here think they're really good looking, which is like fine I feel like you should have your say but not if it's that your opinion is factual in theirs isn't but again I question why it doesn't matter to you that professional media outlets with far bigger audiences than a neogaf poster say things like this.
Why would a video game developer discredit or override his viewpoint? Did nxgamer or DF develop any games? Yet you're in all of those threads, for some odd reason? See where I'm going with this?I didn't dismiss his credentials I told you he's not a video game developer he's not going to tell you different. I said if we're going to do appeal to authority fallacy we might as well get the opinions of video game developers. But I was still acknowledging it's a fallacy and I don't subscribe to it the whole point was to meet him on his playing field. If you guys really think experience means so much then surely any video game developer could come in here and override his viewpoint since he's never developed a video game.
I'm normally behind you on this stuff the problem for me is your tone when you tell people that they're wrong for thinking something looks impressive. I actually think there have been a lot of good counterarguments in this thread stuff like metro Exodus and control with Ray tracing are some of the best looking games there are. I took issue with the people telling me flight simulator factually has better tech behind it. I'm sure you can agree with me but it's pretty factual that there are different tech targets for a game like that than these games. There's a reason why a game like demon souls or even control doesn't have the tech Ms flight simulator is using while being action games, you can pretty much do one or the other but you can't be doing both. Nothing could handle such a thing right now.I was addressing you though. We already know the Sony guys will always speak highly of a PS exclusive. I've not seen a single post from a Sony warrior EVER stating that a 3rd party game is the best looking game out of all the PS exclusives. EVER. That already tells you that one can't really take you guys too seriously.
I got upset with YOU specifically because you mention my name by trying to discredit my involvment in game development simply because I don't WORK at a gaming company. Despite you knowing my professional history and clearly knowing I can talk with authority on many things concerning realtime engines and graphics in general. It was a stab at me without having a clue just how close I'm working with this stuff every day. It would go down a lot better if you were to ask me something instead of assuming you know my mindframe. If any other developer came on here, you wouldn't approach them in this manner. It's simply offensive and will definitely get me to pound the battle drum.
Sony warriors can state all day every day that their box produces the best visuals - subjectively/biased, etc.. But I draw the line when it comes to trying to state specific things in the game and trying to connect the dots to the visuals. I get paid to make those specific things in order to enhance visuals so I would know more about it. That's just the way it is man.
I'm normally behind you on this stuff the problem for me is your tone when you tell people that they're wrong for thinking something looks impressive. I actually think there have been a lot of good counterarguments in this thread stuff like metro Exodus and control with Ray tracing are some of the best looking games there are. I took issue with the people telling me flight simulator factually has better tech behind it. I'm sure you can agree with me but it's pretty factual that there are different tech targets for a game like that than these games. There's a reason why a game like demon souls or even control doesn't have the tech Ms flight simulator is using while being action games, you can pretty much do one or the other but you can't be doing both. Nothing could handle such a thing right now.
I sometimes even completely see what you're talking about, I'll see certain posters in certain threads and it seems like if the game isn't a Sony exclusive they aren't that impressed by it. I think your argument regarding that is fine but your post don't always read like that argument. I didn't mean to offend you it just felt like you were using your authority as a bludgeon so I suggested there could be even more authoritative figures than you posting here, for instance if the devs for metro Exodus are control came in here and decided to argue with you on this stuff and people were using the appeal to authority fallacy who would they listen to? Personally I would listen to both sides my point was not to say that I don't value what you're saying my point was I don't think someone's authority or knowledge should be used to shut down the opposing viewpoint unless we're in factual territory. Again this seems like a misunderstanding I was defending people's right to a subjective viewpoint if your main point is about tech behind the game then I'm not going to argue that too much besides what I was doing with flight simulator while I was making the point that there are very different tech targets for the two games.
Again I'm not here to be a jerk to you I like you as a poster and I was one of the few people who supported the idea of you starting a YouTube channel where you break down the tech behind PS5 games and stuff like that. I'm hoping we can both walk away from this feeling like it was simply a misunderstanding.
Why would a video game developer discredit or override his viewpoint? Did nxgamer or DF develop any games? Yet you're in all of those threads, for some odd reason? See where I'm going with this?
He obviously knows more than the majority of people on here, so to discredit him, shows a weakness or a fear of what he has to say. I'm not for censorship or discrediting people, it's a public forum for Christ sakes. If you can't accept the fact that ps5 is outdated compared to what's been out, currently out, or coming out, then I don't know what to tell you. I'm not saying it's shit hardware or anything like that, and neither is he. The reality is, there will always be better on PC, as power limitations, cooling, clockspeed, etc, aren't limited compared to consoles. That's why visuals are pushed much higher on PC.
Fair enough.
I don't think a developer from any of these companies would have a problem with talking to me because we'd quickly start talking about details that they probably would get into trouble talking about. LOL! I've never argued with a developer over something technical. It either is or isn't. It's not subjective at all.
Concerning FS2020. That game has so much more in it's graphics engine I don't even want to think about all the subsystems they put in place there. It's clearly MORE than any game out to date. The bandwidth requirements and streaming are probably through the roof. They've got some really impressive tech in that simulator despite there not being characters with PBR shaders walking on the street or jumping with animation. Those are all callbacks to input. Let's not even go into the physics of flight that has to go into that sim as well. The sim is simply on another level and really shouldn't be compared to games per se since it's really not a game but a simulation. But realtime is realtime. Any developer would tell you the challenges they had to overcome making that sim is as hard or more complicated than a game like Demon Souls.
Demon Souls remake on PC will probably be one, assuming it ever happens.
I would say Cyberpunk will easily take that crown. Games already out though....hmmm probably Red Dead 2. Control looks great as well but I dunno...I don't think this is fair comparison. Comparing remakes to original titles seems insincere.
that's a real thing that really happens I don't know what you guys are complaining about. You know especially in a world where someone isn't making sure that doesn't happen, I'm sure they're on a lot of gardeners and such or people retiling. But honestly you guys expose you don't live in urban areas of your countries if you don't know that this happens
Grass grows out if the gaps not the actual stone.
I guess I just think Demon's Souls imagination is limited by it's age. Some things graphically...animation for example may not have been considered when the game was originally exist. Because this is a remake, they still wanted to keep the core of the game intact and so things like animation will ultimately look better on most modern games. So what I'm saying is it's kind of unfair to Demon's Souls in motion to other games that original code was released much more recently, if that makes sense.Why would it be insincere? I mean they revamped the graphics quite a bit. As a whole I assume Cyberpunk will take the crown - especially also when it can get mod support and stuff it will probably be up there for years to come.
Say what you will about Assassin's Creed, I think Origins is an amazing looking game. Certainly surpassed in areas, (heck Unity has made something of a comeback on its reception judging by this thread and other sites) Egypt is one of the most beautiful settings I've seen in a game.
Edit : needed to correct some errors or wrong words, iam in mobile so the autocorrect function cursed me..eheh- edit end
That is a nice topic and my Answer would be:
No current games on PC on a technical Level look as good as DeS on PS5.
The Game uses PS5 superior I/O System for the first time for real.
I mean Miles Morales of course streams data in but it is held back by its PS4 Version.
So in the Bluepoint / John Linneman tue Devs hav stated that they streams in 3-4GB/s.
That is currently not possible on PC.
No API
No or very limited usage of Hardware I/O (RTX).
The Datastreaming is of course the source of DeS advantages in graphics in general and polygoncount in particular. The latter made it possible to surpass all other games out there in asset and charakterquality .
To underline this and to final Supply this Thread with hardfacts iam going to post some of my own Screenshots.
So they all come from the German pcgameshardware.de Forum where i wrote up a informative Post about the games Qualities in different aspects
Here it will be just a few examples..
Lets go:
Assets:
Architecture:
Effects
Charakters and NPCs
Some more togheter with enviroments
And a few Gameplay bits by me. Wich btw Ares captured with PS5s own 4k/60 capturing..
Charakter closeup - incredible Details.
A little Tour through Nexus- the Hub.
Polygoncount galore
So there you go..
I think they reanimated quite a bit - and added stuff. The AI is the same but the animations they def redidI guess I just think Demon's Souls imagination is limited by it's age. Some things graphically...animation for example may not have been considered when the game was originally exist. Because this is a remake, they still wanted to keep the core of the game intact and so things like animation will ultimately look better on most modern games. So what I'm saying is it's kind of unfair to Demon's Souls in motion to other games that original code was released much more recently, if that makes sense.
Yup. The last great Ubisoft game in my opinion. Perfect campaign length, awesome setting and characters. Much better then Odyssey and Valhalla bloat.Say what you will about Assassin's Creed, I think Origins is an amazing looking game. Certainly surpassed in areas, (heck Unity has made something of a comeback on its reception judging by this thread and other sites) Egypt is one of the most beautiful settings I've seen in a game.
You're gonna get a lot of replies naming games that are available on consoles just running at a higher framerate and/or with better IQ and effects... and they'll be dead wrong.This is gonna make me seem like a Sony guy again - and may also be controversial. But my PC isn’t like super new - I have a 1060, ssd, like it’s fine just not top of the line. I’ve never had like an rtx card for example.
I’m playing demons souls now and I’m really, really impressed with the graphics and how everything seems like “solid” or part of a physical world. I dunno it legitimately feels like the art style, animation and whatever simulations or tech they’re using, whatever trickery they’ve done - it’s blowing my mind graphically. I can say hands down this is the best flat screen game I’ve ever seen.
Half Life Alyx blew me away the most in VR just because everything was built to trick my brain into thinking it was real or something and it worked - so I was more legitimately amazed by that and the fine details within VR but on a flat screen it doesn’t look like much.
I know PC’s are more powerful than the new consoles and soon will be pumping out things with this high of fidelity or more but is there an actual game out right now that looks as good as this as a cohesive presentation? It looks cgi - it’s limited in that you can’t really jump or interact with everything but things on the ground move in response to you in a fucking weirdly realistic way - people talking in the game their lips and expressions are as good as last gen cutscenes but you’re seeing it from a third person perspective in game.
I’m sure this will be surpassed within the year but is this ultimately the best looking game of all time right now? Not on a technical level in what it’s actually doing but just on the overall image/effect it produces for the viewer? Or is there something on PC I’m unaware of that surpasses this?
Which of those is supposed to be so impressively next gen? It shows the usual last gen performance cost cutting measures all over the place. Anything not in your face with often super low res blurry textures (wooden beam sides, cart's detailing, random rocks, etc.), secondary characters with some super obvious polygon edges (like that zombie arm, no tesselation whatsoever given you're so close up to the zombie there) and once again low resolution texture elements (the wooden shield and the detailing on its makeshift armor with the metal bits in particular), etc. You're arguing against your points with your own evidence and your tech jargon is FUD even post-edit. But at least that's better and more honest than the dude posting tiny gifs like people did of Gran Turismo Sport or Driveclub to show they "look real" and stuff last gen (at that size Battlefront 1 & 2 gifs look basically like the movies), lol. Thanks for that. Also, next gen Frostbite games will be nuts.Assets
i don't know about BW but 96% of ALU's utilization? are you saying that given GPU flips 96 % of it's CU's transistors every cycle? your PC would melt if that would be the case in first place there would be bottleneck in other part of GPU you would be considered a pro GPU programmer if you would be utilizing 40% to 50% of alu's with modern GPU's.All games take full advantage of PC hardware. The PC isn't a closed platform. Its' an open platform and always will be. A game that doesn't exercise the GPU well enough will show during a profile. A game like AC:Valhalla, for example, uses over 96% of the GPUs bandwidth and compute power. It's a very well optimized game for an open platform game that compiles to many other platforms.
So that wasn't my mind. Witcher 3 has better clothing textures than Demon Souls.Um...what are you guys doing? why are you guys TALKING about the looks of the game, and not putting up screens to prove the point?
to me, that indicates not having that much confidence in the take that demon souls looks that fucking good.
here's some screens from some games I just played
crysis: 2007 version vanilla
Crysis-Screenshot-2020-11-26-19-35-49-68.png (2560×1440) (ibb.co)
metro exodus: literal screen grab you can even see my frames
the witcher 3
Your obsession for the "Sony guys" to point out to them how they are in fault, it's something else. It's not like everytime they are wrong as you are in the right. Neither I understand such stupid generalisation. The level of antagonism you showed about Spiderman raytracing is a good example.I was addressing you though. We already know the Sony guys will always speak highly of a PS exclusive. I've not seen a single post from a Sony warrior EVER stating that a 3rd party game is the best looking game out of all the PS exclusives. EVER. That already tells you that one can't really take you guys too seriously.
I got upset with YOU specifically because you mention my name by trying to discredit my involvment in game development simply because I don't WORK at a gaming company. Despite you knowing my professional history and clearly knowing I can talk with authority on many things concerning realtime engines and graphics in general. It was a stab at me without having a clue just how close I'm working with this stuff every day. It would go down a lot better if you were to ask me something instead of assuming you know my mindframe. If any other developer came on here, you wouldn't approach them in this manner. It's simply offensive and will definitely get me to pound the battle drum.
Sony warriors can state all day every day that their box produces the best visuals - subjectively/biased, etc.. But I draw the line when it comes to trying to state specific things in the game and trying to connect the dots to the visuals. I get paid to make those specific things in order to enhance visuals so I would know more about it. That's just the way it is man.
All those closeups look pretty average to me.Edit : needed to correct some errors or wrong words, iam in mobile so the autocorrect function cursed me..eheh- edit end
That is a nice topic and my Answer would be:
No current games on PC on a technical Level look as good as DeS on PS5.
The Game uses PS5 superior I/O System for the first time for real.
I mean Miles Morales of course streams data in but it is held back by its PS4 Version.
So in the Bluepoint / John Linneman tue Devs hav stated that they streams in 3-4GB/s.
That is currently not possible on PC.
No API
No or very limited usage of Hardware I/O (RTX).
The Datastreaming is of course the source of DeS advantages in graphics in general and polygoncount in particular. The latter made it possible to surpass all other games out there in asset and charakterquality .
To underline this and to final Supply this Thread with hardfacts iam going to post some of my own Screenshots.
So they all come from the German pcgameshardware.de Forum where i wrote up a informative Post about the games Qualities in different aspects
Here it will be just a few examples..
Lets go:
Assets:
Architecture:
Effects
Charakters and NPCs
Yeah. That would mean that one corridor which takes 30s to walk through would take 120GB of space on drive. Unless that data is not unique, but then there is no point of reading it again all the time.DeS is not constantly streaming at 3-4 GB/s. This rumor needs to die.
Say what you will about Assassin's Creed, I think Origins is an amazing looking game. Certainly surpassed in areas, (heck Unity has made something of a comeback on its reception judging by this thread and other sites) Egypt is one of the most beautiful settings I've seen in a game.