That is exactly what it is.
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Are you happy with the "visual identity" adopted by modern Final Fantasy?
- Thread starter MYE
- Start date
That is exactly what it is.
100 times nomura style than this:
freaking lolis . Everytime i see this style i die a little bit, cause lolis ruin the games for me.
Oh come on with that Xillia picture. That character has a lot of optional shit added on from the player. Otherwise she just looks like a normal anime girl beside the weird flying puppet. But it has relevance to the story, ha ha.
Yeah I find it funny that some people are like super against a little style and then totally fine with Loli's, Furry's, Touhou, and all sorts of other cotton candy anime.
Or the flip side, where everything has to look super gritty, ugly, and hyper real.
I like the balance and strive for something more in the middle to be completely honest.
I think XV is the sweet spot. Just before it gets too realistic and just after it becomes too "anime."
Or the flip side, where everything has to look super gritty, ugly, and hyper real.
I like the balance and strive for something more in the middle to be completely honest.
I think XV is the sweet spot. Just before it gets too realistic and just after it becomes too "anime."
Meccanical
Member
It's not about making sense in real world terms, it's about making sense in that particular fictions terms.
It's not hard man, that's a difference from offering an explanation that is fantastical but makes sense given the setting and not bothering to explain at all.
100 times nomura style than this:
freaking lolis . Everytime i see this style i die a little bit, cause lolis ruin the games for me.
Yeah. main reason I never touched a Tales game
*shudder*
I'm totally okay with it in Disgaea games though. Because those at least make fun of themselves
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Nomura and his shitty designs along with this constant over use of techno fantasy crap needs to stop.
I amnot artistically cultivated I guess.
I'm pretty sure it's an objective fact.
I guess I just have the inability to look at a character with bright yellow clothing and pant legs that are different lengths and think "this is a great hero design", but more power to those who can.
Yuna was great, though.
its funky and unique.I loved how FFX particularly detaches itself from real world settings.
I don't care to have everyone wearing jeans and white t-shirts or full suits of metal.I actually like to see characters wearing things that make me think " I couldn't think this was possible" or " how did he think of that"
Just stuff that's really unpredictable.FF does that well and X in particular.
A dictator kills a group of children and burns their city down. He drops nuclear weaponry on their world and destroys it completely. TRIGGER WARNING:
He unleashed a tornado of monsters that destroys the world a second time. He kills multiple party members and drives many of them to suicide. He opens up a gateway to Hell, unleashes demons upon the world (destroying it a third time), and then becomes Satan.
Scientists and money-hungry politicians try to breed a dog with a girl in a desperate attempt to gain the power required to suppress terrorists who support a world that is intent on exterminating all of humankind. The protagonist is host to multiple mental disorders caused by him getting impaled, injected with alien tissue, and by him watching his best friend get shot in the head.
These are events that occur in two Final Fantasys. I could go into detail about FF8's transsexual, Lightning's failed attempt at killing millions of people, Tifa's stalker, the dildo in FF7, Celes' suicide attempt, and so on,
He replaces their queen with a monster and has it attempt to rape the main character.
Scientists and money-hungry politicians try to breed a dog with a girl in a desperate attempt to gain the power required to suppress terrorists who support a world that is intent on exterminating all of humankind. The protagonist is host to multiple mental disorders caused by him getting impaled, injected with alien tissue, and by him watching his best friend get shot in the head.
These are events that occur in two Final Fantasys. I could go into detail about FF8's transsexual, Lightning's failed attempt at killing millions of people, Tifa's stalker, the dildo in FF7, Celes' suicide attempt, and so on,
but my pizza just got here and I am hungry. I'll be reading the thread, though.
FF has never been aimed at a young audience. Even now, even in FF13, it panders to teens and adults. The problem is that it aims for this relatively grown-up audience and then repeatedly treats them like children.
BlazingRain
Banned
100 times nomura style than this:
freaking lolis . Everytime i see this style i die a little bit, cause lolis ruin the games for me.
Tales of Xillia had pretty good art design overall too.
I can't help but think many of the people complaining just don't like the Japanese style. Maybe it's time to accept that not every game has to cater to Western design sensibilities?
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
So what you're saying is that if there was some ridiculous optional in game encyclopedia file explaining at length the in world justifications for FF's asymmetric hairstyles and outfits, you'd be ok with them?
because that's basically what mass effect does to justify lizard people, sexy blue women and evil robots in its fiction.
CosmicGroinPull
Member
Hell yeah, loved it since FF8.
Young audience to me = teens and young adults. I'm 28. That's my perspective anyway. Also all those adult points are hidden in the game and not really all that apparent. Unless, they were apparent in the Japanese versions but you can chalk that up to Nintendo and Square wanting to tone things down in the Western market.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Oh c'mon, this isn't even true for games based solely on D&D. Also, If anything pure sci-fi rpgs in space are rare as hell.
That's what I'm saying. Taking one picture of the girl in your party with a bunch of optional addons is a bit of a slant. There are other legitimately designed characters that look pretty nice in Xillia, as well as a lot of the town designs, which to me are reminiscent of Miyazaki designs.
Final Fantasy visuals have always been about what's popular in Japanese culture. But up until the PSX era the technology really wasn't there to convey the concept. Just look at what happened to Locke and Shadow in the FFVI CGI work. That's what it was always meant to look like. The sprite work was vague enough to let us imagine all kinds of things. I remember when I first saw the concept art and CGI for FFVI and I couldn't believe what I was saying. It was not even a little close to what I pictured when playing the game.
These days its all out there though and many people just find it unappealing.
These days its all out there though and many people just find it unappealing.
PshycoNinja
Member
Barely distinguishable huh? So you're telling me you cannot tell the difference between all these characters?
Because if that's the case you may need your eyes checked.
Why do they always try to be so.... fashionable?
Its like a team of super models whos secret side job is super heroes.
I dont have a problem with them being good looking, but... even when they try the 'disheveled' look its 'model looking disheveled' not... real.
Series looked its best when they had 50 pixels to work with >.<
Now they have 50 pixels per hair.
Its like a team of super models whos secret side job is super heroes.
I dont have a problem with them being good looking, but... even when they try the 'disheveled' look its 'model looking disheveled' not... real.
Series looked its best when they had 50 pixels to work with >.<
Now they have 50 pixels per hair.
Maybe its because I dont play many of games with this style, but the complete unseriousness of Disgaea works really well with that silly character design type IMO.
Plus Disgaea never felt loli to me. Maybe because its not?
My bad for bringing that game up
Prax
Member
No. I really don't like the visual style nowadays. Really not my taste.
It's like fantasy pseudo-realism, and to me, it just doesn't look compelling. It looks fake but tries hard to be realistic and urgh. It just doesn't quite get there.
And the general colour choices or palettes used by modern Final Fantasies just.. bleh. It's all kinda bleh.
I think there are good things about the designs and I want to appreciate it on a technical and aesthetic level, but I can't get over my feelings of general disappointment every time I look at new screenshots or official art for the series. So looking at FF stuff has kind of become a chore for me now.
It's like fantasy pseudo-realism, and to me, it just doesn't look compelling. It looks fake but tries hard to be realistic and urgh. It just doesn't quite get there.
And the general colour choices or palettes used by modern Final Fantasies just.. bleh. It's all kinda bleh.
I think there are good things about the designs and I want to appreciate it on a technical and aesthetic level, but I can't get over my feelings of general disappointment every time I look at new screenshots or official art for the series. So looking at FF stuff has kind of become a chore for me now.
BlazingRain
Banned
lol at you trying to frame all these things to be much more serious than they ever were in their games.
I guess the Lion King must've been for adults too, what with its usurping brother to a king who conspires with an ancient enemy to overthrow and kill said brother and then blame his nephew for it, while subsequently laying waste to his kingdom out of greed for power and jealousy. And the prince who abandons his people out of guilt for a crime he didn't commit, before returning out of a sense of duty to the legacy of his father.
I totally get that, but you're saying Final Fantasy games do not explain their particular fiction? The world of Final Fantasy VII is lauded to this day for having such a well-thought world and areas such as Midgar, Junon, the Jenova Project, Nibelheim, The Turks, etc. I can go on and on (let's just forget about Crisis Core...not a fan). Sure, they may not make sense when you think of infinite regression, but then nothing really does.
And besides, some things are seriously better without explanation. You do not need to explain why Mario becomes twice his size when he absorbs a Mushroom. I understand that Mario is a totally different example since it is not a story driven game, but my point is there is nothing "right" or "wrong" when doing something on a creative medium. That's just a limiting constraint.
Barely distinguishable huh? So you're telling me you cannot tell the difference between all these characters?
Because if that's the case you may need your eyes checked.
Personally I think this has to be one of the coolest looking cast of characters that I've seen in a long time for a Final Fantasy game. The only complaint I can levy against it is that there are not enough (or any) playable female characters. Other than that, total badassery. It's also about the theme of the game. There's a bit of a mafia vibe going on, and I think that is one explanation for why the characters look the way they do.
Thats not what I meant when I said I made a living out of creative work. I was defending myself from being accused of liking brown stuff.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Barely distinguishable huh? So you're telling me you cannot tell the difference between all these characters?
Because if that's the case you may need your eyes checked.
The hair is exaggerated to make them look different, but they have very very similar bone structure (being halfway realistic and anime is what betrays it think, getting faces that appear real but are all drawn by the same person; as someone pointed out before ). There may be an explanation of course, I know there is a father and a son there, are some of the other guys brothers as well?
BlazingRain
Banned
What I said was extremely true for the most part.
Amalur, Dragon Age, etc., are essentially riffs on the standard LotR formula made popular by D&D, and Mass Effect is very standard sci-fi.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I can see that perspective.. But I don't share it.
1. To me, it's not aesthetically pleasing.
2. It implies something about their character that doesn't follow from the on-screen portrayal. Did cold Lulu or revolutionary Nooj really spend hours that morning getting their belt skirt or hairdoo together? I don't buy it.
3. I see no evidence of genius in Nomura's ability to generate such gimmicks (his talents lie elsewhere). This stuff is easy: what if you had a character with hair shaped like a bird? What if you had pants that were made up of a series of rings? Gimmicks are easy. Tasteful and aesthetically pleasing designs are hard.
Sinfamy
Member
I'd disagree, he's the only thing that can revive the series at this point.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
There's also the fact that they were designed in a monoculture where people literally do have more similar features to one another. That may factor in.
Yeah I'm not really that impressed with XIII's overall character design, which extends to XIII-2 as well, beside a few characters like Lightning (decent) and Caius (pretty badass for the most part). The npcs are very generic, and I know that a lot of JRPGs have generic npc designs but I feel like they stick out as being overly generic because the main characters have a lot of detail. The design is also pretty uneven. Oh yeah. I can't really stand Serah. Her design, voice, story, everything.
Hilariously enough, I don't reaslly have a problem with team NORA designs. The characters remind me of the Neverland kids from the movie Hook.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Mind blown: Rufio is a jRPG character design.
Lion King is a Disney film, and Disney films feature completely exposed breasts, so yes, it is very much an adult film.
But in all seriousness, the bad guy wants to kill the good guy is the basis of many children's stories and fairytales. Now, if Zazu had committed suicide (as Celes attempted to) because he couldn't deal with Scar's rule, that definitely wouldn't fly.
We're both cherry-picking where the line is at this point, though.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
I mean, there are warforges in DnD for a couple of years now, not everything is forgotten realms. Anyway, they have gone quite a bit away from Tolkien at this point, but yeah it is the biggest trope still. But there are lots of bastardization (in a good sense) like Warhammer and so forth. Pure stuff like Mass Effect is rare (can't even think of an isometric crpg in space), cyberpunk and wastelands are more common.
For what it's worth, I thought the designs were terrible at first glance too. When I actually played the game, what I found were the most human characters in FF history. The dialogue is so natural and a joy to read, and the models (somehow) have better animations than modern FF. Each character is unique and so likeable.
Play the game. Play as much as you can. If you still don't like it, then so be it, but you're really missing out if you don't at least try it.
Well i've never been a great Nomura fan (i think he's kind of mediocre as an artist, too) however his characters being "effeminate" isn't a problem at all, for me.
I still like Amano's work more, although lately i found his renditions lazier and lazier.
--
Anyway, it's obvious that they design their characters with teenage girls in mind, i don't really mind, it's been a while since FF grew into something more than a simple game, and more of a big franchised product, from which you can sell all sorts of trinkets.
I think frankly the adolescent design matches the adolescent love triangles and struggles in their stories.
I mean, do you guys really think FFVIII with Amano's art would've matched its silly love story shenanigans and writing?
It's not really so much the content as it is the execution. When Celes tried to kill her self, the game didn't go into gruesome detail about it. It was more the idea that she was so depressed with life that she wanted to end it for herself. Like I said, FF VI has subtly mature themes, in the same way that a lot of animated films do so that kids can enjoy relatively unscathed while adults have something that will hold their interests. Also I'm not sure if suicide has the same implications in Japanese culture as it does in western culture (remember, we have a culture based solely on Christianity, which teaches that suicide is a sin).
Again I'm going to have to agree with the other poster that you are trying to build an argument out of small things and trying to take the evidence out of context to skew it to fit your argument. It is entirely possible to have a piece of entertainment that is aimed at kids while having subtle depth and maturity that adults can enjoy.
Hyperactivity
Banned
No.
I smile every time I see a jrpg that's not in that character style
I smile every time I see a jrpg that's not in that character style
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
I just find it baffling that people have the audacity to call Final Fantasy designs after VII "effeminate" or "k-pop", and then turn around and praise Amano? I mean, seriously?? The popular talking points thrown around in this thread are so hypocritical that it's nauseating.
Amano's art was the pinnacle of effeminate. All his characters were pale, delicate, and etheral in concept. Even his male characters even wore lipstick! However, it was also beloved. You can say you can't stand the new art direction, you believe it should have gone the cell-shaded route, or even that they should have stuck with chibi. But please, please don't even try to argue that the designs are becoming increasingly effeminate compared to the Amano's work. Ugh.
Green Mamba
Member
I think the guy you quoted was talking about the five main playable characters. So this would be a better picture to post:
Honestly, I think that their clothing style and color schemes make them more samey than they really should be. Nomura's doing the game a disservice by having these guys be the main characters I feel when the game does seem to have much more varied (and frankly, much more interesting) side character designs. I've said it before, but Noctis is like the most boring design Nomura has ever made.
And in an unrelated note, the games' apparent lack of important female characters (and apparently no playable females) is very disappointing coming from a series that has typically been pretty strong in that regard.
BlazingRain
Banned
Even the wasteland stuff is pretty generic though.
My issue with Western fantasy (in the general sense, not fantasy as apposed to sci-fi) is that it all tends to be very safe and the various worlds are usually just "remixes" of established ideas. Even Warhammer is too similar to LotR for my tastes.
That can be interesting in its own way (as in "how are the dwarfs going to be in this world?"), but it gets tiring. I'd like to see a WRPG in a completely new and original world one of these days.
Moon_frogger
Member
lol you clearly have zero understanding of the series evolution stylewise. Nobody has a problem with it not being 'pure fantasy', which it never was to begin with. It's the androgyny and mediocrity we dislike. The design by committee to appeal to the widest demographic look. Nobody actually enjoys that. It's just what some useless hopped up marketing department thinks people enjoy. It's focus tested to shit and it isn't even particularly effective marketing wise. Their far too afraid of their fan base to every try anything approaching an actual creative visual style. Which is too bad because gameplay wise they've still consitantly knocked it out of the park.
Yep, FF was definitely pure fantasy before evil Nomura and his nefarious group of villians took over.
What I really want to know is why people who clearly either never were fans of the series, or haven't been fans for over ten years, continue to complain about the series at every opportunity. Clearly the series just isn't targeted towards many of the people on this board, so why continue to demand radical changes in a series that you haven't enjoyed for over half its life?