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[StormCell]

True.

But XIII suffered from a lot of things:

- Games like Dragon Age and Elder Scrolls coming(becoming big) to (in) consoles and showing another side of stuff to some players that didn't know about it (like choices).
- Open world games being the "thing" of last gen.
- New players coming from Xbox, with little knowledge about JRPGs.
- Some fanboys butthurted that the game was not exclusive, skipped Nintendo and some other selfish things.
- Hope, Snow and Vanille.
- Nomura in love with Lightning.

And more....


Can't wait to get home and try the demo!

I still haven't played XIII, but wasn't one of the chief complaints about the game was that it was incredibly linear with very few choices and the open world segment of the game didn't occur until right near the very end?

All of my favorite Final Fantasy games drop you into an open world map quite early in the game to avoid the feeling of being truly very linear. Exploration cures that reality. Introducing artificial barriers that will be opened later is still okay provided you get a taste of exploration and things to come back to later. That kind of stuff.

 

[Thabass]

Article says they got to play over 4 hours.

Ah, probably should have read it then lol

 

[StormCell]

I just can't imagine the level design truly feeling stuck in the past when they've managed to stretch a part of the game I'm always in a mad rush to get past into some full-game length experience. Did no one tell them the introduction in Midgar was something of a hurdle that everyone just rushes through so they can reach the rest of the world? lol

 

[GymWolf]

The combat is the biggest issue.
Everything else seems fine.

What issue? Is it too similar to ff15?

 

[ROMhack]

The people writing these things likely werent even born when FF7 first dropped. Context is lost.
But even beyond that - ill take og FF7 over 99% of these modern games. Where's this gold standard level design of modern games? Open world shit sucks.

??. I thought the article was pretty well balanced in terms of outlining the author's feelings. That section was always linear but some of the other bits sound suspect (eg not improving the key card hunt).

Of course it's only the opening and they do tend to be 'introductory' and easy.

 

[Zog]

Sounds like there is only one acceptable opinion here. I am going to wait until very close to release to play the demo, no need to spend a month being excited if I like the demo.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Isn't that indicative of the JRPG genre as a whole and not unique to FF7?

I mean, I doubt the level design is truly "stuck in the past" (sounds more like a clickbaity headline) but there are definitely some old conventions at play here.

I would expect the levels are designed in such a way that longtime fans can navigate the new game from memory (more or less).

 

[MagnesG]

How long is the demo again?

 

[GHG]

Final Fantasy VII Remake's Modern Combat Thrills, But Level Design Feels Stuck in the Past

I agree and wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[hunthunt]

Stupid millennial

 

[ROMhack]

Stupid millennial

Okay Boomer.

 

[TexMex]

FF7 is a linear game - and this first "episode" focuses exclusively on the most linear part of a linear game.

 

[GHG]

Okay Boomer.

If this makes me a boomer then I'm a proud boomer.

 

[ROMhack]

If this makes me a boomer then I'm a proud boomer.

Nah you're a millennial like the rest of us (except Matt).

 

[E.T. Waifu]

Oh yeah... How could I confuse.

Spoiler: lol

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA THAT GUY. I think at one point he was aware of the fact that people realized he was waaay too into her.

 

[E.T. Waifu]

Stupid millennial

C'mon, generalizing isn't good.

 

[CyberPanda]

Hmmmm

 

[Dr. Claus]

True.

But XIII suffered from a lot of things:

- Games like Dragon Age and Elder Scrolls coming(becoming big) to (in) consoles and showing another side of stuff to some players that didn't know about it (like choices).
- Open world games being the "thing" of last gen.
- New players coming from Xbox, with little knowledge about JRPGs.
- Some fanboys butthurted that the game was not exclusive, skipped Nintendo and some other selfish things.
- Hope, Snow and Vanille.
- Nomura in love with Lightning.

And more....


Can't wait to get home and try the demo!

There are a number of things wrong with your post. DA and Elder Scrolls as well as "choice-based" RPGs were not the downfall of FFXIII. The issue was that it was an ultra linear affair where you literally spent 20+ hours walking down single hallways with the very rare slightly open square box that allowed the most basic of exploration. The gameplay was also very basic devoid of any strategy until near the very end of the game. It was poorly paced in both story and gameplay systems.

The story was nonsensical in a first playthrough that required many hours of reading to understand the basic plot. Look at other games with similar codexes and compare them with FFXIII. Those games you didn't need to read them to understand the plot. The only point of them was to give you some extra background info if you wanted to seek them out. FFXIII didn't have that. You *needed* to read it to understand what was going on. This also goes hand in hand with Hope, Snow, and Vanille. The characters themselves were fine in most games, but given the poorly paced story, you only saw their bad sides for the majority of the game with their development being relegated either offscreen or in text.

Xbox players and JRPGs were not an issue. There were plenty of JRPGs on the platform and many of the xbox gamers grew up with Nintendo and Sony prior to Xbox OG. The "Fanboys" thing is also a gross exaggeration of a very small subset of people.

Nomura wasn't in love with Lightning. He only designed her look. You are thinking of the character's creator: Motomu Toriyama.

 

[Dr. Claus]

C'mon, generalizing isn't good.

Eh, more of a stereotype at this point. Just look at Reddit or Imgur. Full of millenials who do nothing but cry and whine that everything was ruined by previous generations and how things are *soooooooo* hard for them. Also look at any SJW. The majority of them are millenials and they are definitely brain dead.

 

[Aion002]

There are a number of things wrong with your post. DA and Elder Scrolls as well as "choice-based" RPGs were not the downfall of FFXIII. The issue was that it was an ultra linear affair where you literally spent 20+ hours walking down single hallways with the very rare slightly open square box that allowed the most basic of exploration. The gameplay was also very basic devoid of any strategy until near the very end of the game. It was poorly paced in both story and gameplay systems.

The story was nonsensical in a first playthrough that required many hours of reading to understand the basic plot. Look at other games with similar codexes and compare them with FFXIII. Those games you didn't need to read them to understand the plot. The only point of them was to give you some extra background info if you wanted to seek them out. FFXIII didn't have that. You *needed* to read it to understand what was going on. This also goes hand in hand with Hope, Snow, and Vanille. The characters themselves were fine in most games, but given the poorly paced story, you only saw their bad sides for the majority of the game with their development being relegated either offscreen or in text.

Xbox players and JRPGs were not an issue. There were plenty of JRPGs on the platform and many of the xbox gamers grew up with Nintendo and Sony prior to Xbox OG. The "Fanboys" thing is also a gross exaggeration of a very small subset of people.

Nomura wasn't in love with Lightning. He only designed her look. You are thinking of the character's creator: Motomu Toriyama.

I am gonna agree to disagree with you:

DA and Elder, from what I remeber, at the time in forums, were always pointed by people who hated FF, saying that it was stucked in the past.

I disagree with your points about FFXIII, for me it is a good game. The battle system is fun and the world is pretty and interesting, not even once I got annoyed by the lack of exploration. Heck I finished twice, got the Plat on PS3 and later finished on PC.

The story for me was fine. Convoluted? Sure. But fine, way better than the mess that it is FFXV for instance and more fun than XII. Who plays a Jrpg and don't read the stuff in game? For me a FF is 50% story then the rest, whatever %. So yeah, if you dislike reading files in game, FFXIII might not be for you....

About the Xbox and fans.... oh there was so many wars about it... everywhere, gamefaqs was a warzone at the time. Good times.

And yes, E.T. Waifu already corrected me. My bad.

 

[LaughingStock]

Is the full game about midgar only?

 

[Jigsaah]

Section of Article extracted from Playstation News Site/Fan forum "PushSquare".

Unfortunately, while the release has taken great strides in combat, the level design from the sections we played leaves a lot to be desired. Most of the environments are frighteningly linear, meaning even an extended trip through the city of Midgar feels restricted and one-dimensional. There are small detours you can take, and these are often rewarded with chests harbouring key items and materials, but generally you’re funnelled through the world like you’re riding a roller-coaster. A second Mako Reactor assault is so samey that it feels like the area has been constructed out of the kind of tiles you’d expect to find in a procedurally generated world.

In fact, it’s this mission that left us with some concerns. While the opening is as bombastic as humanly possible, the slick cut-scenes are replaced here for much cheaper, in-game story sequences. To make matters worse, objectives include finding keycards hidden in plain sight, and an embarrassingly anticlimactic side-quest where you must push and pull levers in a weirdly imprecise minigame that grates within seconds. It may not be representative of the final product at all, but we can’t help but wonder why Square Enix opted to showcase it if not.

To be fair, the publisher appears to be pinning everything on the combat, and once you’ve got Aerith and Tifa in your squad, you can really feel the differences between each hero. Aerith sits back and uses magic to both deal damage and buff teammates, while 7th Heaven’s bustiest barmaid utilises some extraordinary martial arts moves to deal devastating damage. It’s chaotic in the same way as Final Fantasy XV, but the addition of tactical elements adds some order to the frenetic fighting unfolding on screen.

Ultimately, we’re both excited and concerned. The combat seems excellent, but will it be enough to carry a largely linear campaign that’s been padded out with some tedious objectives? Square Enix was very specific about the sections that we saw, so maybe it’s saving the most exciting parts for fans to discover on launch day in a couple of months. But why wouldn’t it want to put its best foot forward? Maybe the enormous expectations resting on this remake’s colossal shoulders need to be re-calibrated just a little bit.

FULL ARTICLE: https://www.pushsquare.com/news/202...ills_but_level_design_feels_stuck_in_the_past

Man you're just the damm Anti-Christ today with the negative Nancy news huh?

Feels bad man. I hope the level design will improve as the game goes on.

 

[manfestival]

This article can be summarized by "I am frightened by linear games and therefore it is the games fault and problem by being so linear. Linear games are archaic and I am afraid diversity and want every game to be a sandbox."

 

[LordKasual]

Man you're just the damm Anti-Christ today with the negative Nancy news huh?

Feels bad man. I hope the level design will improve as the game goes on.

The guy is describing elements from the original FF7 that appear to have been faithfully carried over.

Final Fantasy has never been a particularly "expansive" franchise. FFXIII was an outlier in linearity and no FF game since has been even half as bad, including the direct sequels to XIII.

If you liked the original FF7 then there's nothing to worry about lol

 

[Northeastmonk]

Sounds more like a killjoy type of article than an article that actually means something. What am I suppose to do now? Get depressed about something I'm totally ok with about a game that I played over 20 years ago? Ok....

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

I’d like to hope it opens up quite a bit when you hit the overworld but who knows

Still Day One unless I die first

 

[Javthusiast]

Sounds like the writer has never played the original..

Many people will be playing this for the first time, me included, so sorry that we won't have appreciation for shitty old gameplay designs. xD I understand fans want it being close to the og, but you also can't simply dismiss any criticism other people will have.

 

[DragoonKain]

If this writer is correct, then I may be disappointed myself. It all depends on what you want from a remake. It depends on the genre for me. For RPGs, I prefer the environments to be expanded. It doesn’t have to be open world a la Witcher 3, but I remember playing FFVII when I was young and being like man. I wonder what that area over there is like or what it would look like if I could go over here. I just left it up to my imagination in areas you couldn’t explore. I was hoping the remake would make those areas explorable.

I can’t say I expected it. I expected more blandness, because I feel FF has lost detail and environmental diversity since FFIX and since then they gradually focused more and more on combat and visuals. But I did get my hopes up a little with the trailers.

Like remember the ruins? Or the area in the flashback section of the game? Mount something I forget the name of it damn it’s been so long. I was hoping eventually we’d be able to explore them and it would be really cool. Who knows, maybe that’ll still be the case, but I’m bracing for a game built around combat and story with environments a little lifeless and same-y.

 

[Zog]

Final Fantasy XIII was definitely compared to games like Dragon Age and Oblivion. People also said that it played itself.

 

[Doczu]

So the world is mostly like in the OG FF game?
Sorry journo, but

 

[Aion002]

I still haven't played XIII, but wasn't one of the chief complaints about the game was that it was incredibly linear with very few choices and the open world segment of the game didn't occur until right near the very end?

All of my favorite Final Fantasy games drop you into an open world map quite early in the game to avoid the feeling of being truly very linear. Exploration cures that reality. Introducing artificial barriers that will be opened later is still okay provided you get a taste of exploration and things to come back to later. That kind of stuff.

Yes.

Since you didn't play it yet. I think that the right approach to FFXIII is seeing that he is like Uncharted 4 or the latest God of War, it has open areas but it's linear.

Kinda like FFX, but more linear. It's a good game, but a little different from the others FF... The opposite of XII in the open world aspects.

 

[LOLCats]

frighteningly linear? really bro... Are you a 21 year old new media puke that doesn't know what games used to be... man, kids these days.

 

[LordKasual]

If this writer is correct, then I may be disappointed myself. It all depends on what you want from a remake. It depends on the genre for me. For RPGs, I prefer the environments to be expanded. It doesn’t have to be open world a la Witcher 3, but I remember playing FFVII when I was young and being like man. I wonder what that area over there is like or what it would look like if I could go over here. I just left it up to my imagination in areas you couldn’t explore. I was hoping the remake would make those areas explorable.

I would refrain from letting this be your expectation, because it is literally impossible for a remake of any practical caliber to replace this feeling.

The older Final Fantasy games were able to take advantage of your brain filling in missing information in a way that no modern HD highly-rendered game will ever be able to do.

I myself wish that FF7R would include some kind of Zoomed out Camera mode that would allow you to look at the stages from the old pre-rendered perspective....but that's pretty much only for nostalgia's sake.

 

[DragoonKain]

I would refrain from letting this be your expectation, because it is literally impossible for a remake of any practical caliber to replace this feeling.

The older Final Fantasy games were able to take advantage of your brain filling in missing information in a way that no modern HD highly-rendered game will ever be able to do.

I myself wish that FF7R would include some kind of Zoomed out Camera mode that would allow you to look at the stages from the old pre-rendered perspective....but that's pretty much only for nostalgia's sake.

Not really if you look at it in terms of seeing what their creative minds think those areas looked outside of the original’s confines.

 

[HaveButOneLife]

I was worried about linearity... yikes.

I love linear so this opinion can fuck right off.

Nothing's better than being confined to one area going on a single path like you're on rails.

 

[LordKasual]

Not really if you look at it in terms of seeing what their creative minds think those areas looked outside of the original’s confines.

but it wasn't even necessary for them to do that much when they created it because of limitations.

Your mind filled in the blanks of like 85% of the original FF games, even the PSX ones. It's like reading a book and seeing the movie....the movie has to try REALLY hard to make it look good, but reading the same scene will always look exactly as good as it needs to because your brain is what created the scene.

Really simple concepts like imagining how RedXIII is going to fit in a sailor costume, or how the WEAPON fights will work is an attest to that. In the original game, you don't really give it a second thought.

Cloud swings his sword at Diamond Weapon's foot, and you're just like, "cool". But now suddenly everyone has to really put thought into how it's even going to physically be possible in its original form. The Midgar Zolom is another thing that, from a gameplay perspective, is really cool.....but in any 1:1 remake is going to look COMPLETELY different than it's simplistic, chibi, PSX form.

I was worried about linearity... yikes.


Nothing's better than being confined to one area going on a single path like you're on rails.

As long as it isnt XIII-level linearity, i dont think its an issue.

Every Final Fantasy game is pretty linear by design, only real exceptions being XII and XV.

 

[Clarissa]

Enjoyed the heck out of the demo and can't wait for the full release!

 

[DragoonKain]

but it wasn't even necessary for them to do that much when they created it because of limitations.

Your mind filled in the blanks of like 85% of the original FF games, even the PSX ones. It's like reading a book and seeing the movie....the movie has to try REALLY hard to make it look good, but reading the same scene will always look exactly as good as it needs to because your brain is what created the scene.

Really simple concepts like imagining how RedXIII is going to fit in a sailor costume, or how the WEAPON fights will work is an attest to that. In the original game, you don't really give it a second thought.

Cloud swings his sword at Diamond Weapon's foot, and you're just like, "cool". But now suddenly everyone has to really put thought into how it's even going to physically be possible in its original form. The Midgar Zolom is another thing that, from a gameplay perspective, is really cool.....but in any 1:1 remake is going to look COMPLETELY different than it's simplistic, chibi, PSX form.



As long as it isnt XIII-level linearity, i dont think its an issue.

Every Final Fantasy game is pretty linear by design, only real exceptions being XII and XV.

I disagree, if the areas were expanded on and fleshed out, as long as they weren’t bland or generic I’d be fine with their imagination of it.

 

[Contica]

I was worried about linearity... yikes.


Nothing's better than being confined to one area going on a single path like you're on rails.

As long as the gameplay is fun, the story is cool, the music is pumping, I couldn't give less of a shit if I'm "free" or not. Exploring is entirely irrelevant to me, usually it means going on wild goose chases to see if there is one of a myriad more or less useful items and feels like a complete waste of time.

No, give me linear paths with no time wasting corridors and "which way do I choose? Oh fuck, I picked the wrong one, gotta go back and check what I missed" - intersections.

 

[waltyftmus Prime]

Quality remake, played the original to death(defeated all the Weapons), looking forward to playing ALLof this.

 

[StormCell]

Is the full game about midgar only?

I would like to be corrected if wrong, but YES. Part 1 (the full game) is only the Midgar section with no overworld or world map or travel.

 

[EightBit Man]

Final Fantasy games have always been generally linear, or gave you the false illusion of freedom. I don't see a problem with it.

 

[HaveButOneLife]

but it wasn't even necessary for them to do that much when they created it because of limitations.

Your mind filled in the blanks of like 85% of the original FF games, even the PSX ones. It's like reading a book and seeing the movie....the movie has to try REALLY hard to make it look good, but reading the same scene will always look exactly as good as it needs to because your brain is what created the scene.

Really simple concepts like imagining how RedXIII is going to fit in a sailor costume, or how the WEAPON fights will work is an attest to that. In the original game, you don't really give it a second thought.

Cloud swings his sword at Diamond Weapon's foot, and you're just like, "cool". But now suddenly everyone has to really put thought into how it's even going to physically be possible in its original form. The Midgar Zolom is another thing that, from a gameplay perspective, is really cool.....but in any 1:1 remake is going to look COMPLETELY different than it's simplistic, chibi, PSX form.



As long as it isnt XIII-level linearity, i dont think its an issue.

Every Final Fantasy game is pretty linear by design, only real exceptions being XII and XV.

XIII linearity is what I'm afraid of.

As long as the gameplay is fun, the story is cool, the music is pumping, I couldn't give less of a shit if I'm "free" or not. Exploring is entirely irrelevant to me, usually it means going on wild goose chases to see if there is one of a myriad more or less useful items and feels like a complete waste of time.

No, give me linear paths with no time wasting corridors and "which way do I choose? Oh fuck, I picked the wrong one, gotta go back and check what I missed" - intersections.

Or the levels give you no free reign to do what you want to do, it's literally having the game be played for you. When done correctly, actually doing the time to do real level design can make a game 10x better and more fun in general.

If I wanted heavy storytelling and a million cutscenes I'd just watch a movie, I want to have fun when I play video games and there's nothing fun about walking down narrow corridors, scripted set pieces, and being restricted/limited. I do like my fair share of linearity when it's not so limiting or isn't artificially difficult.

One reason why the FF community will enjoy this game so much over FFXV for example is not because of the familiarity, it's because it has a way easier method of storytelling and in that regard it really depends on the game.

Final Fantasy games have always been generally linear, or gave you the false illusion of freedom. I don't see a problem with it.

XIII is really the only linear one I can think of and it's by far the worst in the series. I'd rather be given a false illusion of freedom than be stuck on rails.

TLOU still bores me but at least it has openness to the point where you don't feel claustrophobic. The Order is the worst example of linearity possibly ever.

 

[EightBit Man]

XIII is really the only linear one I can think of and it's by far the worst in the series. I'd rather be given a false illusion of freedom than be stuck on rails.

TLOU still bores me but at least it has openness to the point where you don't feel claustrophobic. The Order is the worst example of linearity possibly ever.

As far as I can tell you have to go to a specific place to progress in the story. Sure, you could choose to grind or do side-quests (when applicable), but progression itself is still a linear affair, as with the JRPG-genre in general.

It is not like a Fallout game, where I can completely negate the main quest for hundreds of hours on end without getting bored of the very few choices I have.

 

[Contica]

Or the levels give you no free reign to do what you want to do, it's literally having the game be played for you. When done correctly, actually doing the time to do real level design can make a game 10x better and more fun in general.

If I wanted heavy storytelling and a million cutscenes I'd just watch a movie, I want to have fun when I play video games and there's nothing fun about walking down narrow corridors, scripted set pieces, and being restricted/limited. I do like my fair share of linearity when it's not so limiting or isn't artificially difficult.

One reason why the FF community will enjoy this game so much over FFXV for example is not because of the familiarity, it's because it has a way easier method of storytelling and in that regard it really depends on the game.

Pretty much sounds like FF in general just isn't for you. But good for you, there are tons of open world games out there. The world is practically drowning in them. There are so many aspects to games besides open worlds , that the way you describe a linear game makes it sound like you've hardly any experience with them. There are a lot of ways to create player engagement besides exploration.

For those of us who prefer heavy scripting since it usually means a potential for a better told and directed story, I think it's okay to skip the open world just once in a while.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

what a nontroversy. pretty sure level design has never been a priority for me with JRPGs. like not once. not a single FF game i have been into the level design.

it is all about presentation instead. it is about the story. never in a million years would I play RPGs for the level design. what a weird demand.

frankly, im baffled this would be an issue. then again FFVIIR is going to be clickbait heaven for video game journalists.

 

[Zog]

So if the Midgar section has been extended to say...20 hours and it's all linear, that's ok with people?

 

[jaysius]

The demo makes the combat feel like a hot mess, it's all over the place, nothing sucks worse than when the AI has used it's ATB on something stupid and you need a potion or cure from it. It's neat, it looks beautiful, but I wish the combat wasn't so awful, I wouldn't want to get into a more protracted fight with this awful combat.

 

[Contica]

So if the Midgar section has been extended to say...20 hours and it's all linear, that's ok with people?

Linearity is the last thing I care about. Story, pacing, encounters, combat etc is far more important. Linearity doesn't worry me at all, the combat though.. Wasn't sold on it sadly.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

what a nontroversy. pretty sure level design has never been a priority for me with JRPGs. like not once. not a single FF game i have been into the level design.

it is all about presentation instead. it is about the story. never in a million years would I play RPGs for the level design. what a weird demand.

frankly, im baffled this would be an issue. then again FFVIIR is going to be clickbait heaven for video game journalists.

It is the same bullshit people complain about in FFXIII to be honest. Every FF game but 15 and the two MMOs are played in a series of curvy tunnels.