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Battlefield 4 |OT| Prepare to Leave Beta... Nevermind

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Engineers will always be popular no matter what they do because they have rocket launchers and in a game full of scary vehicles, players want to be able to fight back. When other classes require you to get in real close or you have little option against armor, it scares new players.
 
Well, I unlocked pretty much everything and I think I'm done.

I don't wanna play as an Engineer to enjoy the game, theirs no reason they should be as viable foot soldiers as they are anti-vehicle.

An engineer should be shitting his pants when facing an AR or LMG, accept in BF4 case they not only can hold their own but in a gun fight but they are the class to eliminate vehicles.

Ill also throw in the fact that I think BF needs to go back to an "unarmored" and "armored" standard for the classes. There is absolutely no reason a sniper should take as many shots to kill as a standard soldier.
 
In terms of class usefulness I'd rank Engineer as first, Recon as second, Support as third, and Assault as dead last.

Assault as nothing going for them other than their weapons and reviving, but carbines are almost as good as assault rifles. Our weapon chews through ammo as well and with such a limited supply we're out begging support class for more. They mostly just ignore us and run off.

Recon has all the cool gadget for team play yet most of them just sit back and snipe. I wish they gave those to the Assault Class. At least the motion sensor or something.
 
Crakatak187 said:
In terms of class usefulness I'd rank Engineer as first, Recon as second, Support as third, and Assault as dead last.

Assault as nothing going for them other than their weapons and reviving, but carbines are almost as good as assault rifles. Our weapon chews through ammo as well and with such a limited supply we're out begging support class for more. They mostly just ignore us and run off.

Recon has all the cool gadget for team play yet most of them just sit back and snipe. I wish they gave those to the Assault Class. At least the motion sensor or something.
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It takes over 30 seconds to start auto healing.
Thats half of the medics usefulness right there.
They bring revives and faster healing for overall objective pushes as a group, as opposed to the tank removal and ammo boxes from a support (tank removal being melee range c4) and the tank removal (just as before, in the form of melee range c4) and spawn beacon (i haven't played with a recon who has bothered to out this anywhere other than on s rooftop or in the mountains, though for coordinated play its great) and the soflam, Which you just don't see, of the recon.

Already gave my feelings on engi.

Its unique and requires a nearly completely different style of play compared to the other classes in order to play the spec properly. If every match was about tank removal (they aren't unless your team is just that awful) i could see medic being last.
Otherwise, i would say in general play, especially organized... Recon is last.
Recons , especially random recons, are pretty known for doing damn near nothing important for a game. Its quite rare that you will get a good recon in a random game that plays his class properly and gets his team behind enemy lines, my friend that i regularly play with is a good recon (albeit a vehicle whore as well) and can still rarely play the class as intended in terms of team play as you need other pieces of the puzzle to help get you to the point where your useful to your team. In organized play, engis and medics are king in nearly all game modes, especially the smaller ones such as domination, where medic is for sure first due to the access of ARs and revives (obviously this is do to infantry alone).

Nothing can top a team of organized engis however in any 32 p+ game mode. Organized engi/medic teams are grossly op and are basically a never ending push. In terms of medics alone, ARs make them superior in any infantry situation as well. I don't and have not ever been outshot outside of a 1 shot of course... While i use my favorite ARs. L85 and Ace 23, regardless of overpowered or not, are ARs, in terms of infantry weapons, you dont get better, especially if your good with said weapons.
 
I wouldn't put Recon last. C4, motion sensor, and spawn beacon are some of the most powerful gadgets in the game if used correctly.

It's either Assault or Support that are dead last. Both are pretty useless against vehicles, but with China Rising Support can use more gadgets like the UCAV or SUAV.
 
Crakatak187 said:
I wouldn't put Recon last. C4, motion sensor, and spawn beacon are some of the most powerful gadgets in the game if used correctly.

It's either Assault or Support that are dead last. Both are pretty useless against vehicles, but with China Rising Support can use more gadgets like the UCAV or SUAV.
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As i said, if every game was about tank removal (theres already other vehicles in the game that every class can, and should be using, then assault does nothing.

If your team is so damn bad that they either ignore their own vehicles or are just terrible at using said vehicles and you need tank removal or chopper removal, just role engi, (on top of the other guaranteed engis in the game, it is the best class statistically anyway)

Motion sensors are used by the general public for camping and aren't used by organized recons at all, its strictly spawn beacon and c4.
Thats where recon general usefulness ends.
The Suav does nothing outside of kamikaze one every 90 nerfed seconds, same goes for Ucav. They are cheese mechanics. Pre nerf i would put recon at number 1 for everything due to Ucav spam, however they were driven into the ground face first.
I don't put medic first, i put them anywhere above recon. I could probably make the same argument for support in general play, but I'm exhausted.
 
Crakatak187 said:
I wouldn't put Recon last. C4, motion sensor, and spawn beacon are some of the most powerful gadgets in the game if used correctly.

It's either Assault or Support that are dead last. Both are pretty useless against vehicles, but with China Rising Support can use more gadgets like the UCAV or SUAV.
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I'd easily put recon as the least useful class. I'll take ammo, health, revives, tank busting (engie), etc over spotting and spawn beacons any day. I can spawn on my squad anyway and if people are being revived it's pretty likely that I'll have someone to spawn on.
 
Majority of the map is about vehicle play in this game. It's not just about tanks. In a situation with no vehicles to fight back, Engineers are the only way to take them out. Recons are pretty important with Soflam if they are smart enough to use it. I have more trouble with choppers in the sky than tanks.

Those rains of death you can't do anything about as an assault. Little bird just tears you apart with a skilled pilot.
 
Crakatak187 said:
Majority of the map is about vehicle play in this game. It's not just about tanks. In a situation with no vehicles to fight back, Engineers are the only way to take them out. Recons are pretty important with Soflam if they are smart enough to use it. I have more trouble with choppers in the sky than tanks.

Those rains of death you can't do anything about as an assault. Little bird just tears you apart with a skilled pilot.
Click to expand...

As i said again, role engi. You cant do shit to choppers or jets as a support or recon anyway... Noone is claiming assault is used for vehicle removal.

Soflam isn't used as it take 2 actions to complete and most engis use AA. Not to mention AA vehicles that people are screaming nerf. Each team outside of rush, has their own set of vehicles for vehicle v vehicle play as well as a stupid amount of engineers.
By that logic, everyone should just play engi and ignore all other classes. Which is probably the best course of action at this point sadly... However you will find mot everyone wants to play engi. The best we can do is look at the positives of each class as opposed to just going engi 90% of the time.

Also the best maps aren't majority vehicle play either, the best maps are balanced and leave room for flexibility in terms of player vs vehicle and vehicle vs vehicle as well as player vs player. I would say they got away ok with this in battlefield 4 outside of china rising and a couple of vanilla maps (i think lancang and golmud personally are decent for flexibility , i bring up those maps in particular, as they are the more controversial maps in vanilla in terms of what i stated, as well as the fact that i do decent on them, specifically on golmud in the ABC circle jerk).

If player vs vehicle removal was all there was to this game i guarantee i would have never jumped on the battlefield wagon all those years ago.
I have great games where i am 85% of the time the only person who revives, and i revive and heal a shit ton thanks to combat medic.
Feels good as I'm doing what most other medics don't do (the medics who only play the class for the assault rifles) which is ptfo and do my job each game. I can make an impact even if i was the only medic on my team, which is usually the case in terms of actually healing and reviving.

Also wtf is with those guys who revive for points..... Don't revive if your teammate is just going to get sprayed back down. Revive when its safe.
 
I didn't claim that assault is used for the removal. I'm saying Vehicle is very important in this game and Assault are most useless against them. At least with the other classes you might have a sliver of a chance. Not every map has an AA either though. The ones that doesn't feels like hell with choppers raining death on infantry. The average party doesn't take those out fast enough at all. It's bad enough that it comes back super quick. Those choppers have engineers constantly repairing it as well. I'm starting to see a huge amount of chopper whores that joins a certain map just to kill people in choppers. Those guys are exceptionally good at dodging lock ons. It's frustrating being helpless in that situation.

For the Recon thing. It depends on the mode really. In Obliteration or Rush the beacon is very helpful. Dreamgazer makes great use of those. Arming an M-Com and then throwing a motion sensor helps out as well because we can hide in a safe area to increase the odds of it going off.

It might be useless on conquest.

I'm actually liking locker more because I don't have to worry about choppers and jets shooting at me. Tanks are avoidable at least.
 
Crakatak187 said:
I didn't claim that assault is used for the removal. I'm saying Vehicle is very important in this game and Assault are most useless against them. At least with the other classes you might have a sliver of a chance. Not every map has an AA either though. The ones that doesn't feels like hell with choppers raining death on infantry. The average party doesn't take those out fast enough at all. It's bad enough that it comes back super quick. Those choppers have engineers constantly repairing it as well. I'm starting to see a huge amount of chopper whores that joins a certain map just to kill people in choppers. Those guys are exceptionally good at dodging lock ons. It's frustrating being helpless in that situation.

For the Recon thing. It depends on the mode really. In Obliteration or Rush the beacon is very helpful. Dreamgazer makes great use of those. Arming an M-Com and then throwing a motion sensor helps out as well because we can hide in a safe area to increase the odds of it going off.

It might be useless on conquest.

I'm actually liking locker more because I don't have to worry about choppers and jets shooting at me. Tanks are avoidable at least.
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Thats what i meant when i said spawn beacon at all.
Rush mcoms is what i use them for (when i play rush and recon at least).

I feel the chopper hate tbh. Im just really trying to avoid engineer at this point unless i need vehicle removal due to my team falling behind on it, i don't want to fall into that endless cycle i guess. Its hard finding reasons not to play engineer.

As opposed to locker, guilin is my favorite map at the moment. Really shines for me and medic play.
 
The Engy should have no access to the Carbines, plain and simple.
Quite a few of the Carbines (the AK series mostly) are just as lethal, if not better then some, Assualt Rifles.

The PDW and Shotgun should be their only means of gun play.
Absolutely no reason for an Engy to be a viable option for Vehicle Combat, Air Combat, AND Gun combat.
Heck, just tonight I watched 2 Engys in my squad on Flood Zone dominate B & C base. Tearing through people with the AK's just to stop and Anti-Air the Little Bird. These guys had about 30+ kills each lol

As it stands now you'll see numerous Engys running down a street laying waste to soldiers then quick switching to a rocket and muti-pounding a tank.

People are just using it cause its a class with no weakness...Nerf them and just watch the vehicle combat become more exciting, watch a rise in Assualt/Support players, watch an increased amount of revives/heals/resupplies take place due to a rise in player usage/point whoring..

From BF2 offering the Engy class only a shotgun and the Anti-Tank class only a PDW that had the equivalent of pistol dmg...this is a MAJOR change in balance lol..
Of course in BF2 Medic was God mode, Support had to fire their weapons prone to hit ANYTHING, and Snipers couldn't take a bullet due to lack of armor...so A LOT has changed lol.

I still cant get over the addition of repairing the chopper (was patched out of BF2 due to this issue)...And squad hopping...now you die and just pick a new squad to resawn closer to the action lol Such nonsense..you pick a squad you STAY with them! lol
Now people squad hop so quick your squad will be full one minute empty the next.
 
Pkm said:
The Engy should have no access to the Carbines, plain and simple.
Quite a few of the Carbines (the AK series mostly) are just as lethal, if not better then some, Assualt Rifles.

The PDW and Shotgun should be their only means of gun play.
Absolutely no reason for an Engy to be a viable option for Vehicle Combat, Air Combat, AND Gun combat.
Heck, just tonight I watched 2 Engys in my squad on Flood Zone dominate B & C base. Tearing through people with the AK's just to stop and Anti-Air the Little Bird. These guys had about 30+ kills each lol

As it stands now you'll see numerous Engys running down a street laying waste to soldiers then quick switching to a rocket and muti-pounding a tank.

People are just using it cause its a class with no weakness...Nerf them and just watch the vehicle combat become more exciting, watch a rise in Assualt/Support players, watch an increased amount of revives/heals/resupplies take place due to a rise in player usage/point whoring..
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I would be cool with pdw and shotgun being the only infantry weapons for engineers.

It makes sense to me and is an easy fix in terms of a one way street.
Engineers having access to the AK5c and the ACE 52 is crazy. The A52 out plays most assault rifles outside of the 2 best and the AK outranges most assault rifles even with a silencer.

Judging by kills doesn't mean much though, most of my games are insane in terms of overall kill count and my main class isn't broken. However judging on overall toolset they have something for everything, which isn't healthy for the game.
 
Even in Vehicles I feel bombarded with lock ons from engineers. My tank cannot live at all. This game has way too many lock ons. What's bad is that the mobility sucks ass compared to bc2. Tanks use to turn on a dime in that game.
 
I need to start playing with GAF people. None of my other friends play PS4 (We're all Xboxers. I'm just poor and am using a roomies PS4.)

I'm always playing Assault. I'll be your medic anyday.
 
Crakatak187 said:
Even in Vehicles I feel bombarded with lock ons from engineers. My tank cannot live at all. This game has way too many lock ons. What's bad is that the mobility sucks ass compared to bc2. Tanks use to turn on a dime in that game.
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I HATE THE mobility of the Tanks and Helis.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but didn't the Helis used to use R1/L1 to manuver? Now its sticks for everything right? I just want to be able to hover and turn left or right but can't figure it out lol

And the tanks...sticks again and it just never works as planned lol
I go straight just fine but god forbid I have to go in reverse...its never a straight line in reverse, always find myself drifting to the left or the right. Was R2/L2 before right?

And no After burners on the incredible slow planes? Is the game the same on PC? I had a flight stick on BF2 on PC and those planes did 3 times the speed and you could smack the after bruner and pull great turns..now the planes feel like flying sloths.
 
Pkm said:
I HATE THE mobility of the Tanks and Helis.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but didn't the Helis used to use R1/L1 to manuver? Now its sticks for everything right? I just want to be able to hover and turn left or right but can't figure it out lol

And the tanks...sticks again and it just never works as planned lol
I go straight just fine but god forbid I have to go in reverse...its never a straight line in reverse, always find myself drifting to the left or the right.

And no After burners on the incredible slow planes? Is the game the same on PC? I had a flight stick on BF2 on PC and those planes did 3 times the speed and you could smack the after bruner and pull great turns..now the planes feel like flying sloths.
Click to expand...
You can change the vehicle controls to veteran and it becomes the triggers instead of sticks.

Its the first thing i did.
On PC its the same old, you cant really fuck those controls up in terms of tank movement.
 
Zeppelin said:
So, LMGs... Which ones do people use? I've kinda stuck around with the PKP Pecheneg, but I keep hearing that MG4/M249 is where it's at.
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I've got 500 kills with all three. They are the three best LMGs, IMO.

MG4 and M249 are twins, except the 249 has more side to side whereas the MG4 has more vertical. I subscribe to the school of thought that vertical is easier to deal with than side to side (one direction versus two) so I rock the MG4. M249 is great on smaller maps and modes (like Locker) where side to side is irrelevant. I use a compensator on both, generally, to tighten the overall spread.

The PKP is nasty with a stubby/potato and a compensator. Remember to stand still and you can do great things with it. M240b has way too many statistical tradeoffs for a slightly higher ROF.
 
HariKari said:
I've got 500 kills with all three. They are the three best LMGs, IMO.

MG4 and M249 are twins, except the 249 has more side to side whereas the MG4 has more vertical. I subscribe to the school of thought that vertical is easier to deal with than side to side (one direction versus two) so I rock the MG4. M249 is great on smaller maps and modes (like Locker) where side to side is irrelevant. I use a compensator on both, generally, to tighten the overall spread.

The PKP is nasty with a stubby/potato and a compensator. Remember to stand still and you can do great things with it. M240b has way too many statistical tradeoffs for a slightly higher ROF.
Click to expand...

Alright, thanks. I think I'll stick to the PKP for a while longer then until I've gotten all the unlocks I want, and then move on to the MG4. As you say, handling vertical recoil is much easier than horizontal.
 
I don't understand your complaints about the classes. Here you see how often I use which class:

ugancix5.png


Most of the time I play Conquest and there are always situations where you need every of them. As good as the carbines are (I love my AK 5C), the assault rifles (especially ACE 23/L85A2/Famas) will destroy every other player every time. I use the AK 5C on engineer/support/recon and think of it as an avarage assault rifle. The real use for me is the RPG/Stinger/repair tool for the engineer, ammobox/C4 for support and spawn beacon/C4 for recon.

I think there are enough engineers in conquest, so most of the time I'm playing with Assault to wipe out infantry. But sometimes the own team sucks and they can't take out vehicles, so I do it on my own. I only play support/recon when I'm playing with friends in a good squad, they are extremly usefull for the squad and team. Engineers have unlimited rockets, you can provide the assaults with enough ammo and when I play recon I try to sneak to an objective, set the radio beacon there and wait for the squad to spawn there.

In terms of fun I would say: Assault > Engineer > Support > Recon. But when it comes to usefulness the assault and engineer change places.
 
Faith said:
I don't understand your complaints about the classes. Here you see how often I use which class:

ugancix5.png


Most of the time I play Conquest and there are always situations where you need every of them. As good as the carbines are (I love my AK 5C), the assault rifles (especially ACE 23/L85A2/Famas) will destroy every other player every time. I use the AK 5C on engineer/support/recon and think of it as an avarage assault rifle. The real use for me is the RPG/Stinger/repair tool for the engineer, ammobox/C4 for support and spawn beacon/C4 for recon.

I think there are enough engineers in conquest, so most of the time I'm playing with Assault to wipe out infantry. But sometimes the own team sucks and they can't take out vehicles, so I do it on my own. I only play support/recon when I'm playing with friends in a good squad, they are extremly usefull for the squad and team. Engineers have unlimited rockets, you can provide the assaults with enough ammo and when I play recon I try to sneak to an objective, set the radio beacon there and wait for the squad to spawn there.

In terms of fun I would say: Assault > Engineer > Support > Recon. But when it comes to usefulness the assault and engineer change places.
Click to expand...

Essentially echoing what i said in a collective 3 posts :p.
 
Zeppelin said:
That's a Second Assault weapon though. :)
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Whoops :p

Haven't used Support much yet in BF4, but it's kind of the first LMG I've felt good with so far. I really loved using Support in BF3, but getting C4 at the end of the class progression and the LMG's just not feeling right for me, I've barely used the class in this game.
 
Steelyuhas said:
Whoops :p

Haven't used Support much yet in BF4, but it's kind of the first LMG I've felt good with so far. I really loved using Support in BF3, but getting C4 at the end of the class progression and the LMG's just not feeling right for me, I've barely used the class in this game.
Click to expand...

Just use a carbine, support class traits. Done.

All the LMG's suck in this game.
 
I just bought BF4, but i can't understand what is the difference between Second assault and China Rising? is this the same thing or are they two different map packs?
 
Why am I the only one who uses smoke grenades?
I find them pretty effective, especially on Locker.
A well placed smoke screen works wonders on that map, for both sides.
 
Dug said:
Soooo, us non-Xboxers are gonna be getting that Second Assault DLC soon, right?

Right?
Click to expand...

Not till past February. Which was the initial plan but since stuff is "on hold while we fix this, k" we dunno.
 
The Janitor said:
Hell nah

MG4 + silencer ftw.

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/soldier/JanitorWithAGun/weapons/213467056/1/#mg4

You can sneak up behind a bunch of people and take everyone out without anyone noticing.
Also you can engage long range targets cause you never have to worry about losing ammo with a 200 round mag and ammo boxes.
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I don't get all you people with 1-2k kills with one weapon, I get bored of a weapon pretty quick and my top weapon is only at 434 kills, next weapon after that 270 and the rest falls off pretty fast. I don't have that much kills in total with vehicles either. But still I outrank you by 2 ranks and have 45 hours less playtime. And I mostly play engineer so I can't hoard points wherever I go.

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/soldier/XyberDeath/stats/191799745/pc/
 
Just unlocked hand flares! So badass. Surprisingly I'm finding a lot of use out of them - From lighting up dark rooms to distracting enemies. I do have a question, though. Can people spot through the smoke? If not, I can see them being very useful on the elevators on Siege of Shanghai (among others)

...

In other news, my K/D is closing in on 2.3. Getting close to my BF3 one actually (2.6). I reckon I can get it up to 3.0 comfortably (while still playing objective). Any higher and I'd probably have to exploit shit and camp.
 
Xyber said:
I don't get all you people with 1-2k kills with one weapon, I get bored of a weapon pretty quick and my top weapon is only at 434 kills, next weapon after that 270 and the rest falls off pretty fast. I don't have that much kills in total with vehicles either. But still I outrank you by 2 ranks and have 45 hours less playtime. And I mostly play engineer so I can't hoard points wherever I go.

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/soldier/XyberDeath/stats/191799745/pc/
Click to expand...

Cause ammo runs out so fast in this game, and not many people drop ammo packs so I run with the only good support weapon I know.
In BF3 I played a lot more different classes, there you could choose the ammo perk and there were a lot more people dropping ammo
 
Given the argument about BF4 classes, let's see some service stars! I'll also add my top 10 weapons/Vehicles.

Profile : http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/soldier/Bombless/stats/250253769/pc/

lkHOgcs.png

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I play engineer not because I enjoy it (it's a great class, just not my favourite), but because it's the only class worth a damn against vehicles (and don't give me the "C4 works better" bullshit). I can't stand not being able to damage vehicles. I used the SRAW as my main rocket launcher up until very recently, nowadays I switch between RPG7 and SMAW (there aren't enough people using SOFLAM or PLD ingame).

Support is the class I enjoy the most, Assault being the least. I should also add that all those Recon stars were obtained without using a sniper rifle (Sniper Rifle score is at 781). I always run Ammo Box and Airburst/C4 on Support and C4/PLD on Recon.

On the subject of weapons, I haven't used the ACW-R in FOREVER and it's still in the top 3. Scary. The MTAR is king, the M249 is my waifu, the L85 is starting to feel really good.

Pump shotguns are my guilty pleasure, as shown by the killcount. I haven't actually used the 870 in a very long while, the UTS 15 replaces it beautifully (also can't get over dat shells capacity) and has a nice reload animation to boot.

In terms of vehicles, I am a shitty pilot, thus the domination of ground vehicles. The attack chopper kills are as gunner only. It's a shame the gunship has no assignments/unlocks, I've had quite a bit of fun with the big gun (including but not limited to aircraft/heli kills). At least 1/3 of the Rhib boat kills are aircraft/vehicles. That minigun is ridiculous.
 
What you guys think about the vehicle map balance. I feel that some maps would be better without certain vehicles or that there is too many vehicles.
 
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