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Bayonetta 2 |OT| The time has come, and so have Wii!

Adaren

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Jan 3, 2013
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Killgore has some altered combos IIRC.

Yep.

PPP
PP.P
KK.K
>>P

Are all unique off the top of my head. PPP also doesn't continue into anything else, unlike the handgun weapons.

Durga isn't fully unique either, though. Lightning Durga shares its major combos with the handguns.

Also you made me think that Kulsheda was in Bayo2 for a second. :p Kulsheda's the whip from Bayo1.

The weapons definitely are more unique in Bayo2 though, and it's made even better by all of them having fully Pure-Platinum-viable movesets. I always hated how Bayo1 Rodin, a lot of charge moves, and (to a moderate extent) Shuraba tanked your combo score arbitrarily.
 
Dec 19, 2011
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The enemies are really well designed and feel more balanced than the original's, but at the same time there aren't really any standouts like, say, Grace & Glory. I feel like years down the line we'll all still be cursing G&G, but honestly I can't even remember most of 2's enemies' names. There are those guys that instakill you with baby lasers, but that's more of a blatantly cheap move for the player to avoid rather than something to be memorized through countless failures like G&G's attack patterns.

Sloth was easily this game's Grace and Glory, but you won't notice it until Infinite Climax. Fucker is a nightmare, especially when there's more than one.
 

Curufinwe

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May 20, 2009
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I really miss the Durga bombs.

Sloth was easily this game's Grace and Glory, but you won't notice it until Infinite Climax. Fucker is a nightmare, especially when there's more than one.

I did the MP with the Sloth where you can't get hit once by spamming the Kafka.

The fight soon after against two of them was kicking my ass, till I realized a Torture Attack would kill them pretty much outright. So I just used a purple lollipop before starting the battle.
 

IKizzLE

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Sep 23, 2013
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Sloth was easily this game's Grace and Glory, but you won't notice it until Infinite Climax. Fucker is a nightmare, especially when there's more than one.
Man, sloth....Jesus Christ.
Much worse than gracious and glorious.

Sloth would be Damn impossible to beat without witch time. Doesn't get stunned and has zero frame double hitting moves. An absolute nightmare.

The demon dog without witch time is the same level as gracious and glorious.
Only reason gracious and glorious were remotely challenging in bayo 1 was because you couldn't activate witch time. Some infernal demons in bayo 2 without witch time make gracious and glorious look like child's play.

Grace and glory bayo 1 is the same as Grace and glory in bayo 2.
Grace and glory equals witch time, gracious and glorious equals no witch time.
 

fatgamecat

Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Man, sloth....Jesus Christ.
Much worse than gracious and glorious.
Kafka + Alruna makes sloths much easier even without WT.

Try a playthrough with Jeanne + Gaze of Despair. You only get WT with Moth Within and Gaze significantly shortens the amount of WT you get (among other things).
 

NEO0MJ

Member
Aug 8, 2010
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I love Sloth, such a cool enemy design. The way it just dances so slowly while moving towards you is mesmerizing.
 

correojon

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Jul 25, 2014
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Killgore has some altered combos IIRC.
Even if it doesn't it's speed is so different that it's justified as a different weapon.

You also forgot to mention Takemikazuchi is hand only, Chernobog is hand only, and Chain Chomp is leg only

EDIT: How the fuck do you remember Takemikazuchi's name anyway but you can't remember Undine or Onyx Roses. Simplest weapon names in the game.

I have problems remembering the easiest names but the more complex ones stick with me...My brain must be glitched or something. I think it helps that the swords, whips and fire/icy weapons both make an appearance in both Bayo1 and 2 and that makes them less unique, so they don´t leave as strong an impression as GIANT CHARGING THUNDER HAMMER or SEXY TRIPLE SHOTGUN SCYTHE.

Yep.

PPP
PP.P
KK.K
>>P

Are all unique off the top of my head. PPP also doesn't continue into anything else, unlike the handgun weapons.

Durga isn't fully unique either, though. Lightning Durga shares its major combos with the handguns.

Also you made me think that Kulsheda was in Bayo2 for a second. :p Kulsheda's the whip from Bayo1.

The weapons definitely are more unique in Bayo2 though, and it's made even better by all of them having fully Pure-Platinum-viable movesets. I always hated how Bayo1 Rodin, a lot of charge moves, and (to a moderate extent) Shuraba tanked your combo score arbitrarily.
Charge moves are very powerful. Shuraba+Durga PPPK)K)K) combo can directly kill a lot of enemies, when this happens I start taunting to enrage enemies so they give more points and gain more magic so I can use a Torture Attack on them when they have a slice of health left. Robbing an Affinity of his spear and using the kick attack in the middle of an enraged group will almost always boost your combo score to a Platinum rank, then you can freestyle and finish the remaining ones whichever way you like. Generally, the faster you kill an enemy, the fewer points you´ll be getting from him and charge moves excel at this. What I don´t understand is how a charging and powerful move like Killgores´rockets can boost your multiplier, but the rest of the charging moves just deal great damage but tank your score.

Pillow Talk is the worst offender, if you don´t charge it it´s a dumbed down Shuraba without Wicked Weaves and less reach, but if you charge it you´ll destroy everything in a few hits and loose a lot of possible combo points. I still haven´t found a way to correctly use this weapon.
 

Jintor

Member
Oct 22, 2009
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I've been replaying Bayo 1 and the slowdown on Wii U is really irritating and I can't remember if it's an inherent part of the game or just the port. Buttons also don't seem to be triggering half the time (okay, maybe a tenth of the time) for whatever reason. Also Scaraburough Fair having really shitty KKK moves is preeeeetty irritating.

I miss fighting Joys though, they're really fun. Just got around to unlocking beast within and it's amazing how much I abused panther offset.
 

NEO0MJ

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Aug 8, 2010
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The Wii U port is the best port, it has a more consistent framerate and no screen tearing. I think some parts in the original such as the fight with Sapientia in the tower had intentional slowdown but other than that it's just how the game is.
 

Jintor

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Oct 22, 2009
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To be fair the slowdown is mostly in areas with ridiculous amounts of particle effects, like the time you're Out Of Body defending Cereza and everybody's ghostly and glowwing and then you witch time and everything becomes like 4x as stupid

Still, sometimes my PPK won't trigger the K properly, or it'll drop me out of a combo for no reason, that kind of thing... kinda irritating.

I can't remember but does Bayo 2 PPKKK (the spinning ground roundhouses) knockdown opponents like Scarabrough does?
 

Golnei

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May 12, 2014
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I miss fighting Joys though, they're really fun. Just got around to unlocking beast within and it's amazing how much I abused panther offset.

Joy and Ardor's absence from 2 is really weird. Braves and G&G are understandable enough due to their similarities with existing enemies; and Father Rodin / Jubileus had no reason to reappear, with the latter not being particularly fun in the first place. But Joy and Ardor were at least relatively well-liked and fun to fight, with the former being a fairly iconic enemy for the first game. Did they just run out of time? Because even being absent from Tag Climax is weird considering they managed to fit an entirely new boss in there.
 

Augemitbutter

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Feb 3, 2008
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so i beat the game on normal and hard. should i do infinite climax before clearing the witch trials? i only cleared 1-3, but i noticed they share the same score table on normal and hard? does that mean the difficulty is the same?
 

Jintor

Member
Oct 22, 2009
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I just beat the shit out of Temperentia or the flying whatever giant whirlwind boss and MAN that is some fucking fun-ass shit. Doesn't even matter that he's a giant bullet sponge, it's just... hella fun.

God Bayo 1's dumb nonsensical story is way more fun than Bayo 2's dumb nonsensical story
 

Basileus777

Member
Aug 6, 2008
33,948
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I finally had time to finish this game and I have to agree with those saying the first game was more memorable. Despite the mechanical improvements I enjoyed the story of the first game much more, and the low budgetness of it all bothered me more with the 2nd. All the still image cutscenes felt really out of place. I also wish the game had better enemy variety.
 

correojon

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Jul 25, 2014
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To be fair the slowdown is mostly in areas with ridiculous amounts of particle effects, like the time you're Out Of Body defending Cereza and everybody's ghostly and glowwing and then you witch time and everything becomes like 4x as stupid

Still, sometimes my PPK won't trigger the K properly, or it'll drop me out of a combo for no reason, that kind of thing... kinda irritating.

I can't remember but does Bayo 2 PPKKK (the spinning ground roundhouses) knockdown opponents like Scarabrough does?

I also feel that the kick inputs sometimes fail, however I think it´s because the input windows in Bayo1 are stricter than in 2. Try PKP with Kulsedra and Killgore on feet, I screw the timing of the K a lot of times.
 

Jintor

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Oct 22, 2009
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Okay, I gues it's finally time for me to get acquainted with system mechanics. What's the best guide out there? Preferably non-video but I'll take what I can get.
 

Adaren

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Jan 3, 2013
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Charge moves are very powerful. Shuraba+Durga PPPK)K)K) combo can directly kill a lot of enemies, when this happens I start taunting to enrage enemies so they give more points and gain more magic so I can use a Torture Attack on them when they have a slice of health left. Robbing an Affinity of his spear and using the kick attack in the middle of an enraged group will almost always boost your combo score to a Platinum rank, then you can freestyle and finish the remaining ones whichever way you like. Generally, the faster you kill an enemy, the fewer points you´ll be getting from him and charge moves excel at this. What I don´t understand is how a charging and powerful move like Killgores´rockets can boost your multiplier, but the rest of the charging moves just deal great damage but tank your score.

Pillow Talk is the worst offender, if you don´t charge it it´s a dumbed down Shuraba without Wicked Weaves and less reach, but if you charge it you´ll destroy everything in a few hits and loose a lot of possible combo points. I still haven´t found a way to correctly use this weapon.

Yeah, Bayo1's moves/weapons have wildly different combo point :: damage ratios. Another good example is Shuraba against big bosses when Bayonetta's in "serious" mode: Shuraba's Wicked Weaves do more damage than a standard Scarborough Faire Wicked Weave give the same point value (30), which makes it extremely difficult if not outright impossible to Pure Platinum some big bosses with Shuraba.

I haven't tested this extensively, but I'm fairly certain that Bayo2 keeps the exact same combo point :: damage ratio across all moves, which means that you're pretty much guaranteed a Platinum combo rank if you never drop your combo and every move in your arsenal is viable. Charging up the hammer will increase it's combo point generation for instance, and a charged attack from it will net you hundreds of combo points per enemy. I'm not sure if it's the exact same ratio for all moves, but it's certainly a lot closer than Bayo1.

On the topic of Kilgore rockets, there's a few reasons they're so strong for scoring:
A. They give 30 combo points, which is as much as a Wicked Weave, but do less damage than a Wicked Weave. In other words, arbitrarily good ratio.
B. The game counts them as Wicked Weaves for scoring purposes, which means they they gain the Wicked Weave bonus of +50% combo points if they explode and hit multiple enemies.
C. Since the game counts them as Wicked Weaves, they reset the diminishing returns on your melee attacks (which generally have the best combo::damage ratios in the game) with every hit. This probably doesn't actually make that much of a difference as long as you're using Wicked Weaves, but you could hypothetically use Kilgore rockets in their place and generate even more combo points.
D. There's obviously the infamous Kilgore glitch. The reason this glitch is so strong is because each rocket stacks the +50% Wicked Weave bonus with previous rockets (maybe because they're hitting so close together or maybe just because it's a glitchy attack?) which leads to each rocket generating 60 combo points / attack, which is a pretty crazy good ratio.

Okay, I gues it's finally time for me to get acquainted with system mechanics. What's the best guide out there? Preferably non-video but I'll take what I can get.

If you're looking for combo system tips/explanation, there's this page on the wiki. Only applies to Bayo1; Bayo2 is much simpler.

If you're looking for general combat discussion, this guide from GameFAQs is a good place to start. Doesn't cover any one topic super in depth, but it has a bit of everything.
 

Regiruler

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Jun 4, 2013
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Joy and Ardor's absence from 2 is really weird. Braves and G&G are understandable enough due to their similarities with existing enemies; and Father Rodin / Jubileus had no reason to reappear, with the latter not being particularly fun in the first place. But Joy and Ardor were at least relatively well-liked and fun to fight, with the former being a fairly iconic enemy for the first game. Did they just run out of time? Because even being absent from Tag Climax is weird considering they managed to fit an entirely new boss in there.
From what I've read the new boss is just beast mode golem reskinned.
 
Dec 19, 2011
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Man, sloth....Jesus Christ.
Much worse than gracious and glorious.

Sloth would be Damn impossible to beat without witch time. Doesn't get stunned and has zero frame double hitting moves. An absolute nightmare.

The demon dog without witch time is the same level as gracious and glorious.
Only reason gracious and glorious were remotely challenging in bayo 1 was because you couldn't activate witch time. Some infernal demons in bayo 2 without witch time make gracious and glorious look like child's play.

Grace and glory bayo 1 is the same as Grace and glory in bayo 2.
Grace and glory equals witch time, gracious and glorious equals no witch time.

It was really nice to
have G&G show up in the 2nd game because it was a nice contrast to go back to
. It highlights how easy those two can be once you adjust to their speed and movements. Even when scaled up on harder difficulties, those two are totally manageable.

Sloth on the other hand has odd movements to adapt to (not to mention just being plain invincible half the time) and some of his attacks can have the same effect as a feint due to his eccentric animations in conjunction with multiple arms/swords-slashes.

Thanks to their stagger resistance, it's pretty much using a torture attack or digging your heels in and learning his funky-ass animations (and they're just as fast).

I'm too lazy for the latter so I just stick to going buck-wild with Alruna+Rakshasa. Short of having to get a PurePlat, it works well-enough.
 

Jintor

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Oct 22, 2009
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I'm still looking to best witch trial 5... I'm just not fast enough.

I'm also really into abusing the whips because my playstyle in bayo 1 was heavily dependent on stagger
 

Celegus

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Jun 29, 2012
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Chapter 14 is the best for grinding, but you need to unlock a few things first before you can grind for Halos.

What are you referring to?

I just beat the game for the first time, didn't want to jump into the thread or anything before then. Looks like I'm gonna need a looooot more halos to buy all the costumes and whatever the Platinum ticket does.

Takemikazuchi is easily my favorite weapon, and even better with chain chomp now. I love having a set of heavy weapons together and faster ones on the other set. The scythe is really fun too... well, all of them are actually.
 
Feb 8, 2010
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I just want to say that Sloth is right up there with G&G, Blitz from DMC4 and Shadows from DMC1. Best enemies in the genre imo.
 

Jintor

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Oct 22, 2009
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If you're looking for combo system tips/explanation, there's this page on the wiki. Only applies to Bayo1; Bayo2 is much simpler.

If you're looking for general combat discussion, this guide from GameFAQs is a good place to start. Doesn't cover any one topic super in depth, but it has a bit of everything.

Sorry, forgot to specify I was talking about Bayo 2; Bayo 1 is basically built into my soul at this point.
 

IKizzLE

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Sep 23, 2013
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What are you referring to?

I just beat the game for the first time, didn't want to jump into the thread or anything before then. Looks like I'm gonna need a looooot more halos to buy all the costumes and whatever the Platinum ticket does.

Takemikazuchi is easily my favorite weapon, and even better with chain chomp now. I love having a set of heavy weapons together and faster ones on the other set. The scythe is really fun too... well, all of them are actually.

Chapter 14 grind.
Use Jeanne
Equip Gaze of Despair and the Bracelet of Time
Activate WT, then do PKP(hold) throughout the mission
Youll end up with 2 million halos every 5 min.
 

Mattiator

Member
Oct 23, 2011
894
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Just started playing and made it to chapter 5. My god I love this game just fantastic! Any tips on what I should but from the gates of hell to help me as I continue on :).
Thanks.
 

NEO0MJ

Member
Aug 8, 2010
26,421
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What are you referring to?

I just beat the game for the first time, didn't want to jump into the thread or anything before then. Looks like I'm gonna need a looooot more halos to buy all the costumes and whatever the Platinum ticket does.

Takemikazuchi is easily my favorite weapon, and even better with chain chomp now. I love having a set of heavy weapons together and faster ones on the other set. The scythe is really fun too... well, all of them are actually.

You'll need to unlock jeanne and bracelets of time, as well as buy the Gaze of Despair first before you can really earn a lot of Halos from that mission.
 

Jinfash

needs 2 extra inches
Oct 16, 2007
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I can't believe I'm asking this silly question after all these years, but I'm hoping someone would clear something up for me:

I'm going through the game for the first time on 3rd Climax and I'm aiming for the Bracelet of Time. I hear a minimum of gold on every chapter is required, and I'm there save for a couple of chapters. Now, I can just finish the game then go back and improve my result, and the game will unlock the accessory, or do I have to improve time, then defeat the final boss (or something else)?
 

SalvaPot

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Aug 17, 2014
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I just finished this game (Smash took me away from it for a while)

So, the ending
Those it means Bayonetta 2 is a presequel? Suck on that, Borderlands!
 

jg4xchamp

Member
Feb 22, 2011
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I conquered everything with Bayonetta 2. Beat it on all the difficulties, beat the lost chapters, beat the portals, and beat Rodin finally. Fuck what an amazing game, haven't gone that ham on a game in a long ass time, and don't see myself doing that again this year since I'm aiming for 52.

I love the game, the weapon variety, the crazy amount of bosses, the ridiculousness of everything, and all that jazz was on point. Mechanically it feels so much better than the original, and for my money the original either had the best combat in the genre, or it was Ninja Gaiden 2. Had such a great time, but part of me thinks there are aspects about Bayonetta that worked better, I don't know. For starters I think Bayonetta 2 being easier for me is something I'm holding against it.

Beyond that I also think it's an Arkham City v Asylum scenario for me. The 2nd game is so much better in every major way, but there is something about the original that makes it more memorable for me. Maybe because Bayonetta 2 feels like an encore act to Platinum's brand of crazy, where as the original was like OMG this game is crazy as fuck.
 

Augemitbutter

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Feb 3, 2008
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I can't believe I'm asking this silly question after all these years, but I'm hoping someone would clear something up for me:

I'm going through the game for the first time on 3rd Climax and I'm aiming for the Bracelet of Time. I hear a minimum of gold on every chapter is required, and I'm there save for a couple of chapters. Now, I can just finish the game then go back and improve my result, and the game will unlock the accessory, or do I have to improve time, then defeat the final boss (or something else)?

pretty sure all gold on normal and/or hard is enough. it was available for me that way.
 

Jinfash

needs 2 extra inches
Oct 16, 2007
13,883
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Jinfash
Thanks!

Other question, more related to the differences between Bayo 1 and 2: I know you get awarded by not using items in a chapter, but do you get punished for using it too, like in Bayo 1? It was considered half a continue, iirc.
 

MNC

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Mar 4, 2008
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Bayonetta 2s story just got loads better after I remembered the prologue with Balder crawling out of Jubileus.
I'm a sucker for time travel/paradoxes in media.
Not that the rest of Bayo2 story is any good.
 

zoukka

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Nov 18, 2006
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LTTP here. Game is fun, but too many fights happen airborne imo, you are restricted in your combos that way and the bosses are kinda repetitive in a sense that they mostly have slow and big moves that are overly telegraphed. Dunno if this is better than the first, gotta play it after 2 to see it without nostalgia goggles.
 

Creamium

shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
Mar 10, 2005
19,206
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Jumped into this right after beating Bayo 1. Got to ch9 on a hard replay, but then the urge to start Bayo 2 got the best of me. I'm having a lot of fun with the combat, moreso than the first game. I can't stop playing, today alone I got from chapter 1 to 12.

I read that 2nd climax was easier than Bayo 1's normal, but I didn't expect the difference to be this big! I've earned gold awards all over and now ch11 even gave me my first platinum award. For reference: me on normal in Bayo1 = mostly stone awards. What's even more surprising is that I haven't used a single item and never even got close to dying.
I'm definitely replaying on 3rd climax, because there's absolutely no challenge (at least so far).
 

Creamium

shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
Mar 10, 2005
19,206
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Finished the game just now. The finale felt less crazy and excessive than Bayo1, but I didn't really mind. I loved the combat more than the first game. I played around with every weapon and I can't pick a 'definite' set, most of them are fun, except for the slow hammer. I noticed that it was easier to get witch time in this game, but maybe my timing is just getting better. The team definitely learned from their mistakes in the first game: no Angel Attack, overly long motorcycle or turret sequences. The few minigames that were there, were pretty short and fun. As a result, I felt that the game was much more consistent than Bayo1. An all-round great action game, loved it.

Final game awards (2nd climax)



Replay on 3rd climax is a must. 0 deaths, 0 items used and I could pretty much play on auto pilot. So I'm not done here just yet.
 

Monocle

Member
Jan 16, 2008
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Finished the game just now. The finale felt less crazy and excessive than Bayo1, but I didn't really mind. I loved the combat more than the first game. I played around with every weapon and I can't pick a 'definite' set, most of them are fun, except for the slow hammer. I noticed that it was easier to get witch time in this game, but maybe my timing is just getting better. The team definitely learned from their mistakes in the first game: no Angel Attack, overly long motorcycle or turret sequences. The few minigames that were there, were pretty short and fun. As a result, I felt that the game was much more consistent than Bayo1. An all-round great action game, loved it.

Final game awards (2nd climax)



Replay on 3rd climax is a must. 0 deaths, 0 items used and I could pretty much play on auto pilot. So I'm not done here just yet.
The hammer is amazing with the
chain chomp
. The basic strategy is to charge up your first hit and then do a long combo, with dodge offset if necessary. As long as you're holding P, you can dodge and still keep your charge, just like the other chargeable weapons. Short charges result in a handle thrust, longer charges give you a full hit and a few seconds of charged status where your hammer attacks have boosted damage and impact. A fully charged blow can stagger the largest enemies.

This combo destroys all: [hold P, release] P P [hold P, release] K. That's the hidden PPPPK combo with the first and last P charged to max. Absolutely devastating. (Note that you can't get the K ender if you don't charge the fourth P).

BTW, the hammer earns ridiculous combo points. If you use lots of charge attacks, you can dominate Tag Climax even against players with much faster weapons. So much fun.
 

Jinfash

needs 2 extra inches
Oct 16, 2007
13,883
3
1,335
Jinfash
The hammer is amazing with the
chain chomp
. The basic strategy is to charge up your first hit and then do a long combo, with dodge offset if necessary. As long as you're holding P, you can dodge and still keep your charge, just like the other chargeable weapons. Short charges result in a handle thrust, longer charges give you a full hit and a few seconds of charged status where your hammer attacks have boosted damage and impact. A fully charged blow can stagger the largest enemies.

This combo destroys all: [hold P, release] P P [hold P, release] K. That's the hidden PPPPK combo with the first and last P charged to max. Absolutely devastating. (Note that you can't get the K ender if you don't charge the fourth P).

BTW, the hammer earns ridiculous combo points. If you use lots of charge attacks, you can dominate Tag Climax even against players with much faster weapons. So much fun.
Thank you for this!
 

Jinfash

needs 2 extra inches
Oct 16, 2007
13,883
3
1,335
Jinfash
What's everyone's thoughts on Earrings of Ruin?

I freaking love wreaking havoc with these things while playing as Rosa, but I can't use that as a reference since she's innately much stronger than Bayo/Jeanne.

Speaking of Rosa, what's her best combo and should I bother with button holds/revolver shots mid combo or not?
 

Regiruler

Member
Jun 4, 2013
28,976
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620
What's everyone's thoughts on Earrings of Ruin?

I freaking love wreaking havoc with these things while playing as Rosa, but I can't use that as a reference since she's innately much stronger than Bayo/Jeanne.

Speaking of Rosa, what's her best combo and should I bother with button holds/revolver shots mid combo or not?
I don't know about best combo, but damagr for everything is increased, including little devils. This makes the communicator incredibly devastating, and it's long duration provused you keep on the offensive gives it a better damage per orb than even her climax.
 

Curufinwe

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May 20, 2009
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I'm up to the last chapter on oo climax now and I'm disappointed in how poorly I've done in the boss battles against
Balder/Loki
. But I'm not reading any guides and just muddling thru by spamming the bow and using lots of items.