True Savior
Member
It seems this will be a tv show
http://berserk-anime.com/news/index00060000.html
Starting in the summer.
http://berserk-anime.com/news/index00060000.html
Starting in the summer.
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Berserk Gets New Anime Project Featuring Guts as 'Black Swordsman'
- Thread starter Corpsepyre
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tell me why, tell me why, tell me whatchusayyy
Shamrock7r
Member
I prefer this. Berserk is a story that needs time to be fleshed out. That's the main reason the original tv show was so good and the movie adaptations lacked.
The Omega Man
Member
I am OK with this, no rushes, no crazy cuts
With TV anime now, you either get CG or you get Dragon Ball Super where they just hire kids off the street to draw frames.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
............. You're not serious, right?
meltingparappa
Member
Reticent to get excited about it being a series just because it means the dodgy cg is likely to be even dodgier due to budget.
I was hoping the reason the preview didn't look up to par with the third movie was due to it getting rushed out before tweaking. Now I'm afraid that was what they considered their money shot.
But hey, I'll take what I can get.
I was hoping the reason the preview didn't look up to par with the third movie was due to it getting rushed out before tweaking. Now I'm afraid that was what they considered their money shot.
But hey, I'll take what I can get.
Finn of Ooo
Member
Honest question, I know traditional animation is incredibly time consuming and expensive to produce compared to cgi. So how does stuff like One Punch get created with such high production values? Is it just passion and animators willing to work harder for less money?
Not that I disagree with their reasoning, as I do think that silky smooth CG animation would look off too, but I don't think they're doing a good job with the frame limitation thing either. It still looks off.
I'm not sure why, but I think it's because the process is different between 2D and CG:
- 2D is not "frame-limited" per se. I assume the animators only draw the frames that they know are gonna make the cut, or at least they draw everything knowing which frames to focus on to create an appealing moving picture.
- With 3D, the way it ends up looking makes me think that they actually create the animation at a higher framerate and then put an artificial limit, and that's my problem with it. It makes the animation look too even. It makes it look like the video knows there are more frames to be displayed but somehow struggles to display them all. Also, unless you start morphing the models throughout a given animation, you're working with the same model all the time, whereas there is no 'model' to speak of with 2D.
I mean, I'm no animator, I can't draw for shit, and I have no behind-the-scenes experience, so I might be completely wrong, but isn't the point of animation (at least, 2D animation) to draw a succession of pictures that chain together well and give a specific feel, style and rhythm to the overall moving picture? It's not supposed to be this realistic process where every frame is as important as the next and the model looks 100% consistent and identical throughout. Animation is not meant to be "even" (for lack of a better word), is it? With CG, it looks too clean, even with an artificial frame limit. Feel free to correct me if I'm completely off-base though.
Or you get One Punch Man
The Berserk TV announcement is really really surprising but what's even more interesting is the announcement that comes with it. Japanese cable channel WOWOW is finally returning to TV anime broadcast after forever. They'll be creating a new Friday 10:30pm prime time slot for anime starting this April. The first series to air on the slot is Mayoiga from director Tsutomu Mizushima, and will be followed by Berserk in July. Both series will also air on free to air channel MBS for Kansai audiences on the Animeism slot, but on a one week delay after WOWOW.
With Berserk, what this likely means is that they can air a completely uncensored version on WOWOW, with possible edits made for the MBS version. This is also very exciting news for anime because WOWOW previously produced some great anime series back in the day like Bacanno, before eventually losing interest in the market and withdrawing from Japanese animation entirely.
With Berserk, what this likely means is that they can air a completely uncensored version on WOWOW, with possible edits made for the MBS version. This is also very exciting news for anime because WOWOW previously produced some great anime series back in the day like Bacanno, before eventually losing interest in the market and withdrawing from Japanese animation entirely.
True Savior
Member
They hired a bunch of good/talented animators and allowed them to do their thing.
I'm not familiar with all that stuff, but a potential uncensored TV version of Berserk sounds promising. How much are they able to get away with on that channel?
It's a paid subscription cable channel like HBO. They're not subject to any guidelines.
JadedWriter
Member
I can't wait for 18 fps Guts.
meltingparappa
Member
One Punch Man and Studio Trigger's works are miraculous abberations made by living legends, sheer raw talent and experiments that somehow just work.
On Disney's "Motorcity," there was a cg character the 2d characters sometimes has to directly interact with. Normally in an American production, 2d characters are roooughly animated at 12 frames per second (it's more complicated than that, but if you average out anytime someone is moving, you'll get in that ballpark). The cg needs 24 fps to not look like something is overheating in your videogames. Whenever a 2d character had to big the cg character, they had to animate the 2d character at 24 fps to match. At that point, doing twice as many drawings, it's just a matter of money.
To make things a little more complicated, well animated cg like Cassette Girl or Bubuki Buranki or even Guilty Gear Xrd have a pipeline where the animator basically poses out each frame instead of relying on interpolation.
For example, if Guts swings his sword straight down, you could render that out at 12 or 6000fps for around the same amount of money, in terms of animator cost.
If Guts were to do a super stylish backflip, the way the listed Japanese studios would do it it's by "breaking the model" and contorting it to whatever looks best for that final flat "2d" image on the screen, at 12fps. If you to tell the program to automatically interpolate those poses to 24, it would look like a hot mess. If you wanted to do 24 via the guide of a crafted hand, then that's more money for arguably little benefit.
(Don't trust the graph editor to figure this out for you)
There's a GDC talk for Guilty Gear that goes into it, and it's really fascinating.
Note that this is different than high budget american cg features. Sidonia had a different workflow too, which is why they managed that one time 60fps episode that was probably considerably more work than they original version.
I don't know of that rambling helps to explain it, but the main reason cg looks off is due to money, deliberate tradeoffs for the method of animation, and also when I close my eyes and think of cg the first thing that pops into my mind is the $300m Tangled that probably cost more than the last five years of televised anime production combined.
True Savior
Member
The only information we have is that this will be about the black swordsman. My guess considering this is a tv show , we will get Black Swordsman arc + Conviction Arc. It has a formidable ending moment.
Former tv show had 10 volumes with 25 episodes , both arcs are also more or less 10 volumes. The tv series cut some stuff though (but also added others).
JadedWriter
Member
So this is going to be a lot more violent than the anime? Good.
As broken as Caesar looks I'm still certain that fits according to Araki's anatomy guidelines.One Punch Man and Studio Trigger's works are miraculous abberations made by living legends, sheer raw talent and experiments that somehow just work.
On Disney's "Motorcity," there was a cg character the 2d characters sometimes has to directly interact with. Normally in an American production, 2d characters are roooughly animated at 12 frames per second (it's more complicated than that, but if you average out anytime someone is moving, you'll get in that ballpark). The cg needs 24 fps to not look like something is overheating in your videogames. Whenever a 2d character had to big the cg character, they had to animate the 2d character at 24 fps to match. At that point, doing twice as many drawings, it's just a matter of money.
To make things a little more complicated, well animated cg like Cassette Girl or Bubuki Buranki or even Guilty Gear Xrd have a pipeline where the animator basically poses out each frame instead of relying on interpolation.
For example, if Guts swings his sword straight down, you could render that out at 12 or 6000fps for around the same amount of money, in terms of animator cost.
If Guts were to do a super stylish backflip, the way the listed Japanese studios would do it it's by "breaking the model" and contorting it to whatever looks best for that final flat "2d" image on the screen, at 12fps. If you to tell the program to automatically interpolate those poses to 24, it would look like a hot mess. If you wanted to do 24 via the guide of a crafted hand, then that's more money for arguably little benefit.
(Don't trust the graph editor to figure this out for you)
There's a GDC talk for Guilty Gear that goes into it, and it's really fascinating.
Note that this is different than high budget american cg features. Sidonia had a different workflow too, which is why they managed that one time 60fps episode that was probably considerably more work than they original version.
I don't know of that rambling helps to explain it, but the main reason cg looks off is due to money, deliberate tradeoffs for the method of animation, and also when I close my eyes and think of cg the first thing that pops into my mind is the $300m Tangled that probably cost more than the last five years of televised anime production combined.
meltingparappa
Member
Yeah that is probably a direct translation of the character turnaround he gave the studio.
So if the new series starts at the Black Swordsman and it runs a typical 25 episodes I could see it covering events up to reuniting with Casca and starting the journey to the boat.
If they wanted they could end with the battle on the Hill of Swords and if done well that could be amazing.
If they wanted they could end with the battle on the Hill of Swords and if done well that could be amazing.
JadedWriter
Member
"But Araki san the model is all contorted, anatomy don't bend that way." "Have you read my manga? get out of here, this is fine."
One Punch Man and Studio Trigger's works are miraculous abberations made by living legends, sheer raw talent and experiments that somehow just work.
On Disney's "Motorcity," there was a cg character the 2d characters sometimes has to directly interact with. Normally in an American production, 2d characters are roooughly animated at 12 frames per second (it's more complicated than that, but if you average out anytime someone is moving, you'll get in that ballpark). The cg needs 24 fps to not look like something is overheating in your videogames. Whenever a 2d character had to big the cg character, they had to animate the 2d character at 24 fps to match. At that point, doing twice as many drawings, it's just a matter of money.
To make things a little more complicated, well animated cg like Cassette Girl or Bubuki Buranki or even Guilty Gear Xrd have a pipeline where the animator basically poses out each frame instead of relying on interpolation.
For example, if Guts swings his sword straight down, you could render that out at 12 or 6000fps for around the same amount of money, in terms of animator cost.
If Guts were to do a super stylish backflip, the way the listed Japanese studios would do it it's by "breaking the model" and contorting it to whatever looks best for that final flat "2d" image on the screen, at 12fps. If you to tell the program to automatically interpolate those poses to 24, it would look like a hot mess. If you wanted to do 24 via the guide of a crafted hand, then that's more money for arguably little benefit.
(Don't trust the graph editor to figure this out for you)
There's a GDC talk for Guilty Gear that goes into it, and it's really fascinating.
Note that this is different than high budget american cg features. Sidonia had a different workflow too, which is why they managed that one time 60fps episode that was probably considerably more work than they original version.
I don't know of that rambling helps to explain it, but the main reason cg looks off is due to money, deliberate tradeoffs for the method of animation, and also when I close my eyes and think of cg the first thing that pops into my mind is the $300m Tangled that probably cost more than the last five years of televised anime production combined.
Thank you man, this is what I meant and suspected, but it was just a wild guess on my part.
The two key words I was missing to get my point across were 'interpolation' and 'breaking the model', which I awkwardly replaced with convoluted phrases like 'even' and 'morphing'.
Anyway, you're probably right that it comes down to budget. Which is sad, if completely expected.
A bit before the official announcement, there was a rumor circulating about a 2-cours TV series, so that sounds likely.
I'll take some spotty CG animation of they follow the events more faithfully than the movies.
This x 1000.
I dont even care if its middling CGI.
Berserk animated from the very beginning is all I ever wanted.
Sumio Mondo
Member
Good to see some people have such low expectations for a masterpiece manga series like Berserk then...
If I have to put up with ugly CG and large chunks of revised/removed story edits like the movies then at least give me Susumu Hirasawa music as a compromise.
Sumio Mondo
Member
Pretty much 99% likely, especially if it's the same studio that handled the movies, since they are all about that 3DCG/2D animation mix. A shame their CG is so cheap looking and stiff.
Bit of a dick way to put it.
I am just happy we are getting something, rather than say nothing or more movies.
Is that so bad?
meltingparappa
Member
The teaser is 90% CG characters, with a 2D Guts head at the end. That's roughly how some of the action scenes in the movie went.
General downtime and acting was pure 2D. Once he gets into his ridiculously complicated armor and the camera starts spinning, more shots are hybrid, more shots are full 3D. The fact that he's fighting groups of ghouls and ghosts instead of people means it's likely CG is the cheaper option for the action, as well.
JadedWriter
Member
Just read the manga while listening to the first anime's soundtrack. The anime is good, but I found the violence sanitized compared to the manga, and the anime and all three movies tend to omit certain key things to Guts' character.
meltingparappa
Member
There's a 25 episode series from 1997 with an excellent english dub that *cough* may or may not be just sitting there on youtube.
There's three big budget movies from the past few years that cover the same story arc, which may still be on netflix, maybe?
Some people will say to always opt for the show because it covers more material, but personally I think you're fine either way.
JadedWriter
Member
The movie has horrible pacing and Guts just feels like an angst machine. At least go the anime route cause they pace things out better. This is just me personally but I just can't recommend the movies over the anime.
I'm in the camp of the original anime. The stuff that is left out of the movies is really important for the later series. Plus I wasn't a fan of the CG style of the 3 movies. I hope that the new series doesn't follow in that vain, but that picture of it seemed to be like that
Sumio Mondo
Member
I'd rather we didn't get any more of those awful movies, tbh. And not really, no, I don't think I was. They could scribble some art and call it 'Berserk' and some people would be happy, honestly. What is the point of adapting something if they are just going to remove so much and reduce the violent/controversial content and water down the story content until it's barely Berserk anymore? I'd rather just ignore it and get a nice Susumu Hirasawa soundtrack out of it.
True Savior
Member
If you're not interested in the manga, watch the 1997 anime series.
Well why would I have high expectations of the TV series when it already looks very similar to the movies, which were a mixed blessing at best. More Berserk but not well done except maybe the
Eclipse segments
I've got realistic expectations for the show. Hopefully a less rushed pace will allow them to better and more accurately follow the events of the story. I'm already not expected to look as good as it should which is a damn shame but I won't lie and say I'm not excited to see more of Berserk animated than the Golden Age.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
Wow, that's very surprising! I could have sworn that this was going to be another movie trilogy. Consider me slightly more hyped now!
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