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Bish's Official GTA IV Thread of Comparisons and Ignoring the OP at One's Peril

Dot50Cal

Banned
That GPU screw up shouldn't turn you away from the 360 version, though. I was getting similar artifacts on Burnout Paradise, so thats my 360, not the game. Just wanted to make that clear. I thought they were done with, but I guess not :\

Also, I am noticing screen tearing on the 360, but none on the PS3.
 

Dot50Cal

Banned
Thanks, But they are small enough (jpg's) to be ok, I think :)

Just had a Doom Tree encounter on 360, as well as hospital pop in like before. I am checking PS3.

Edit: Massive hospital pop in on PS3, no doom tree though.

So its a toss up with spawning objects it seems. I'll have to check this more when I get back from work.
 

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
Dot50Cal said:
Thanks, But they are small enough (jpg's) to be ok, I think :)

Just had a Doom Tree encounter on 360, as well as hospital pop in like before. I am checking PS3.

Edit: Massive hospital pop in on PS3, no doom tree though.

So its a toss up with spawning objects it seems. I'll have to check this more when I get back from work.

Damnit ... I kind of wanted to play with doom tree :lol


PS3 inferior CONFIRMED!!!!! :x
 

Dot50Cal

Banned
Hospital pop in on PS3 (look familiar??):
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/gta4/ps3pop.gif BIG FILE

Tree of Doom on 360 is here on retail too:
treeretail.gif

Dont hotlink please

So basically, they both have pop in, but the Doom Tree is still there <3

Off to work, be back with more info.
 

Zaangamer

Banned
So, the visuals are pretty much equal. and from what it seems so is the technical side, am I understanding it right ? Meaning the choice is down to DLC and friendslists.

Anyone know why the PS3 version isn't rendered in 720P ?
 

ShowDog

Member
Are there many doom trees? If it's just the one, well... everyone knows where it is by now. We don't even have to see it in game anymore.
 

Truant

Member
Dot50Cal said:
Ok, I wasn't expecting this big of a difference. This is taken during the same time, exactly. 360 has a much more green palette. Also, look at the shadows. They are dithered on the edges for 360, while they are nice and clean on PS3. I think someone on B3D was saying that 360 uses FP10 for HDR, and PS3 uses FP16, which would probably explain the difference. Heres the pics:

360.jpg


ps3.jpg


Also, Blim has asked me to keep the vid short, so those nice dual screens on the bottom will be gone. Sorry guys.

Edit:
FFUUUUCCCCCCKKKKK!!!!!

http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/gta4/NOOOOOO.jpg

This is just a GUI fuck up, right? right?? Anyone else getting this??

The shadows are just as dithered in both pictures, it's just harder to tell on the PS3 one.
 

Kinan

Member
Truant said:
The shadows are just as dithered in both pictures, it's just harder to tell on the PS3 one.

Dithering is hard to see on shadows, but its quite apparent on bright objects:
X360:
18yt90.jpg

PS3:
210kqqq.jpg


Its probably caused by their postprocessing filters.
 

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
Zaangamer said:
So, the visuals are pretty much equal. and from what it seems so is the technical side, am I understanding it right ? Meaning the choice is down to DLC and friendslists.

Anyone know why the PS3 version isn't rendered in 720P ?

If I were to guess, it likely was done on purpose so they could do other things (namely, it appears its using FP16 HDR, and potentially different AA, and different filtering).

I would assume they couldn't do the above at 720p (possibly rendering speed issues or memory constraints).
 
Onix said:
If I were to guess, it likely was done on purpose so they could do other things (namely, it appears its using FP16 HDR, and potentially different AA, and different filtering).

I would assume they couldn't do the above at 720p (possibly rendering speed issues or memory constraints).
I would imagine that Rockstar felt that the performance on the 360 version at 720p was comparable enough to the PS3 version at 630p that to drop the 360 to 630p too would be a waste.
 

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
Deus Ex Machina said:
I would imagine that Rockstar felt that the performance on the 360 version at 720p was comparable enough to the PS3 version at 630p that to drop the 360 to 630p too would be a waste.


Even at 630p, I'm not sure if the 360 can do FP16 and 2xAA. It may not have been an option regardless.
 
Dot50Cal said:
Hospital pop in on PS3 (look familiar??):
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/gta4/ps3pop.gif BIG FILE

Tree of Doom on 360 is here on retail too:

Dont hotlink please

So basically, they both have pop in, but the Doom Tree is still there <3

Off to work, be back with more info.

Very interesting to say the least.

Also this is an entirely different 360 than the one you were originally trying this stuff out on I assume? Actually I think it is because if I remember you said that you were running the game off the hard drive on your buddy's XDK kit or something to that effect.

When I can I'm going to be specifically testing to see if I can make that tree pop up in my copy of the game. Will fire some shots in the vicinity until I have the police's attention while in my car then speed over there and see if I can make it happen, but I've yet to see that tree pop in.

Nor have I seen the hospital pop in on either version when I tested for it specifically. Since you experienced that hospital pop-in on the ps3 version though I guess this tells us pretty clearly that such a pop in was nothing unique to the 360 you were using nor the build of the game you were playing.

Dot50 that hospital pop-in doesn't happen for you all the time correct? Because I didn't see it happen in either the ps3 or 360 retail yet.

Are you getting that tree pop-in all the time with a wanted level? I do know when I've gone by there I've always seen that tree ahead of time as I generally know the location of it now, but I was more playing the game and wasn't really testing for it, but this time I definitely will be.

If possible other people should perform a similar test to see if it happens to them. Or perhaps you might not even care and just avoid it altogether, but it would be nice to know how many others are getting the same problem.

Dot50 that tree pop in for you every single time you have a wanted level or what or was it that specific time? I recall you saying that with the version running on the hard drive it happened all the time so are you finding that to be the case currently?

Thanks for the vids and screens.
 

arne

Member
Dot50Cal said:
Is Arne still a community manager guy for MS? Can he help me out here? I'm afraid to turn it on now, but I'll check for Phantom Tree when I return from work. Hopefully whatever that was will not return.

nope. come back this fall for all your ghostbusting needs. :/
 

Dot50Cal

Banned
Also this is an entirely different 360 than the one you were originally trying this stuff out on I assume?
Yep

Dot50 that hospital pop-in doesn't happen for you all the time correct?
Nah, not every time. Its random.

Are you getting that tree pop-in all the time with a wanted level?
Well in order to test pop in, I have to be away from that area, then go into it as it loads. If you mingle around there, and go to the tree it will be loaded into the memory already. So what I do is, start at Romans house, die via police right there and it'll warp me to the hospital. Once there, I steal a car and head left. Take another left past the pine tree and you are on the proper road. Then haul ass down it and you'll meet the tree.

Usually when I steal a car at the hospital the cops are on me. Ill try to do it without though, Still at work, will be back in 1 hour.

The video is uploading now. Both versions have FPS issues (not full 30). Its really apparent if you go frame by frame when Niko is in first person view inside Romans apartment. Both versions drop frames there.
 

Rad Agast

Member
Kinan said:
Dithering is hard to see on shadows, but its quite apparent on bright objects:
X360:
18yt90.jpg

PS3:
210kqqq.jpg


Its probably caused by their postprocessing filters.

I might be mistaken but isn't the ps3 version using quincunx for dealing with aliasing?

That would explain the blurry pic there.
 
So the 360 version is 720p and the PS3 version is sub-720p, and that's why the softness of the PS3 version is not only limited to edges but also extends to blurriness of textures?

And what exactly is the rendering resolution of the PS3 version?
 

Dot50Cal

Banned
Kinan said:
Dithering is hard to see on shadows, but its quite apparent on bright objects:
X360:
http://i25.tinypic.com/18yt90.jpg[IMG]
PS3:
[IMG]http://i26.tinypic.com/210kqqq.jpg[IMG]

Its probably caused by their postprocessing filters.[/QUOTE]

No, those are artifacts. These screens are not lossless, hence artifacts. Look at the shadows though, you can see the dithering there.
 

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
I'm guessing that on my hdtv I'd like the clarity of the 360 version more. The ps3 one seems kind of blurry. I like the ps3 color palette a lot better though.
 
tahrikmili said:
So the 360 version is 720p and the PS3 version is sub-720p, and that's why the softness of the PS3 version is not only limited to edges but also extends to blurriness of textures?

And what exactly is the rendering resolution of the PS3 version?

630p. (1120x630)
 

Hammer24

Banned
Onix said:
Even at 630p, I'm not sure if the 360 can do FP16 and 2xAA. It may not have been an option regardless.

Is this confirmed for the PS3 now? As far as I´m aware of, it would be the first PS3 game to combine FP16 and 2xAA.
 

Truant

Member
Dot50Cal said:
Checking the final vid, I think PS3 has more advanced lighting. Or at least it shows up a lot more on characters. Check the video when Roman is getting a call from Vlad.

Video is up! Huge thanks to Blim for hosting!!

http://www.gamersyde.com/news_6399_en.html

They look almost identical to me. I'm sure you could emulate the look of the other just by messing around with your TV settings.
 

Dot50Cal

Banned
A higher precision mode to achive HDR lighting. As far as I know, FP16 produces less artifacts. FP stands for Floating Point.
 

Hawk269

Member
I have both versions and to be honest, they are pretty identical. I think that the 360 version looks cleaner and seems to be smother (edges etc).. This was noticable in both cutscenes and in the actual game play.

I have a 60" Sony SXRD TV, professionally calibrated by an ISF technictian. Both systems are hooked up via HDMI.

First thing I noticed was the PS3 version defaulted to 720p. My set displays all resolutions so I have it checked to output to 480p, 720p, 1081i & 1080p, but GTA4 defaults to 720p. I was able to force it to 1080p by deselecting the 720p & 1080i options and it did output to 1080p.

The load times are slightly faster, but not that much. I am not sure what the big deal was with that. I timed it and it is like 2-3 seconds faster after a death or arrest. No big deal here.

I did think that bluriness in the far backround on both versions very distracting. It takes away from that clean look, but I understand why they are doing it. But still, the visuals are great, but not the 10 most reviews are giving it.

Overall, so far for me, the 360 verision seems to be a bit better visually. Cleaner edges, seems more (rezzy (sp)) etc. Had a few friends here since I had both and they all agreed that the 360 verison seems less jagged and cleaner looking. But, they also said that it is also not that big of deal of a difference to detract and claim an all out victory for the 360 version. They are basically very, very close...but we all preferred the looks of the 360 version.

POP Up...Well, no difference in the 2 hours that we played. They both had some, but nothing noticably much different in eaither version. They both seemed to have some in the same areas. We puposely mapped out the same road at the same time of day to ensure the same and it was.

Also, to put to rest, traffic is just as dense on eaither version. We found a good section where a ton of cars and people migrated and in both versions, it was the same. We even spinned around to see if we could make some stuff disapear and on both versions, the only thing that happened was a few tree textures shifted and that was about it. Traffic and pedestreans seemed to stay on their designated course.

HDD install was about 8 min. for me, so not that bad. But a few friends laughed that the load times are so close, wtf was the purpose of the install.

Did not play online at all yet. We just kept switching from one version to the other to see the differences and when it was all said and done...no big differences other than we thought one looked a bit cleaner than the other. Framerates were also pretty much the same on each version.

Well that is about it. Off to bed...have meetings in the morning.

Enjoy the game folks. regardless what version you have, you are not losing out if you have the Ps3 or 360 version. The are virtually the same.
 

CorwinB

Member
Hammer24 said:
Is this confirmed for the PS3 now? As far as I´m aware of, it would be the first PS3 game to combine FP16 and 2xAA.

IIRC, RSX can't do FP16 and MSAA at the same time. It can do other forms of HDR and MSAA at the same time using specific rendering techniques like Heavenly Sword does, though. It could be that GTA4 does the same thing.
 
Got the PS3 version and OMG it is just BEAUTIFUL (considering the scale) :D I was seriously worried the game was gonna turn out a blurry mess. Not the case at all.
 

Artofwar420

Member
I think this whole comparison thing would be fairer if people actually displayed the game in 720p in both version, I realize the PS3 outputs the game in 1080p (not really 1080p obviously, it's 720p) making the comparisons a little skewed.

So I recommend that you guys switch output to 720p only in the PS3, THEN make the comparisons.
 
Dot50Cal said:
Yep


Nah, not every time. Its random.


Well in order to test pop in, I have to be away from that area, then go into it as it loads. If you mingle around there, and go to the tree it will be loaded into the memory already. So what I do is, start at Romans house, die via police right there and it'll warp me to the hospital. Once there, I steal a car and head left. Take another left past the pine tree and you are on the proper road. Then haul ass down it and you'll meet the tree.

Usually when I steal a car at the hospital the cops are on me. Ill try to do it without though, Still at work, will be back in 1 hour.

The video is uploading now. Both versions have FPS issues (not full 30). Its really apparent if you go frame by frame when Niko is in first person view inside Romans apartment. Both versions drop frames there.

Thanks for the heads up because I would've probably ended up being way too close to the vicinity of the tree and as a result screwed with the test so I'll make sure to be a good long distance away from it then come at it like a bat out of hell :)

Plus the way I usually drive in GTA games there is a good chance by the time I even get to the tree it will have already loaded. I've never liked smashing up my cars in GTA games unless I truly had to. I'll more try to drive fast when I can, but avoid hitting pedestrians or crashing into stuff. Makes the game feel that much more legit to me to know that I just stole a car and I'm doing the intelligent thing by not making myself stand out too much. Just my style of playing GTA :D

In regards to the hospital one, when I really stop to think about it, that shouldn't even matter to us. It does nothing to hurt the overall game experience if it should pop up now and then. Sure we'd all like for such a thing not to happen at all, but nothing can be perfect. This is still one of the best games I've ever had the pleasure of playing.

I don't know if I would say that there is more advanced lighting on the ps3 build because I think that's just a result of the different color schemes for the most part. It's a similar situation when they were showing Niko's face about 53-57 seconds in and it's even more obvious at around 1 minute in.

On the 360 side his skin color looked more white or pale, but on the ps3 side it had this yellowish look to it. There was more intense color to his face on the ps3 side than there was on the 360 side and notice the part where Roman gets the call from vlad you see yet again that same yellowish look that was showing up on Niko's face carrying over to Roman's shirt. Around 53-57 you'll see glimpses of roman's shirt as he's lying down on the bed and on the ps3 side you'll notice the more yellowish tone to the shirt whereas on the 360 it looks more gray or something. Tough to nail down sometimes, but I think that's definitely what it is.

The PS3 seems to have a yellowish filter whereas the 360 seems to have something that might seem more balanced depending on how you look at it.

Either way both versions look stunning because when either is being ran on your HDTV the lighting looks so vastly superior than it would otherwise in a lot of the direct feed vids we've been seen on the internet.

DMC4, for example, looked pretty flat lighting wise from direct feeds on say a site like gametrailers, but then it looks amazing lighting wise when you play it on a hdtv.

Both versions look kickass though. People that don't have it yet, don't judge GTA based on any direct feed. Get the game in front of you on a kickass HDTV and look on in amazement.

Keep up the awesome work you guys. You're doing a great job of letting people see the different looks of both versions, but either way everyone gets to see both games look fantastic.
 

davygee

Banned
To make proper comparisons, we need more screens like Dot50Cal's.

Ideally a few daytime shots of virtually the same scene should do. I'd like to see a nice distance shot that we can see the landscape of buildings to see how each console deals with buildings in the distance and a nice close shot of people and cars.

A water shot would be good as well.

Good work though guys. Thanks
 

conman

Member
Great comparison vid. Thanks.

At first glance, looks like a simple case of red v. green color pallettes.

PS3 version is all about warm tones (slightly blurred reds and yellows) and 360 version is all about cool tones (slightly sharper greens and blues).

Pretty much any other differences are going to have to wait until I've had a chance to see both versions first-hand. Too tough to spot in videos and screenshots.
 

Manager

Member
This one from the video:
1077_0014.jpg


(Low-res below, look for better comparison on above)

IJaVZuhnX.jpg


I don't see it, is it aliasing or just simple different bumps on the ground? Is it just a little bit more blur on 360? Doesn't make any sense as there was supposed to be less aliasing on PS3, as someone wrote.

nDLuSefEz.jpg
 

Hammer24

Banned
CorwinB said:
IIRC, RSX can't do FP16 and MSAA at the same time.

Thats what I heard too.

It can do other forms of HDR and MSAA at the same time using specific rendering techniques like Heavenly Sword does, though. It could be that GTA4 does the same thing.

Probably - but it would be nice to know which exactly. ;)
 

Dot50Cal

Banned
Artofwar420 said:
I think this whole comparison thing would be fairer if people actually displayed the game in 720p in both version, I realize the PS3 outputs the game in 1080p (not really 1080p obviously, it's 720p) making the comparisons a little skewed.

So I recommend that you guys switch output to 720p only in the PS3, THEN make the comparisons.

This is not true, it puts out 720p.
 

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
Manager said:
I don't see it, is it aliasing or just simple different bumps on the ground? Is it just a little bit more blur on 360? Doesn't make any sense as there was supposed to be less aliasing on PS3, as someone wrote.

Would the higher resolution on the 360 one cause less aliasing?
 

Dot50Cal

Banned
Some folks at B3D speculate that the PS3 has Quinix AA. This would explain the blurring of the edges, giving the appearance of less aliasing.
 

dalin80

Banned
The only difference i can tell is that it looks like the PS3 version is set in the summer and the 360 version late autumn.

Aside from that I can see little to care about, which one I purchase is dedicated like the majority by only owning one of the consoles anyway.
 

navanman

Crown Prince of Custom Firmware
Manager said:
This one from the video:
http://images.gamersyde.com/gallery/public/8319/1077_0014.jpg

(Low-res below, look for better comparison on above)

http://static.pici.se/pictures/IJaVZuhnX.jpg

I don't see it, is it aliasing or just simple different bumps on the ground? Is it just a little bit more blur on 360? Doesn't make any sense as there was supposed to be less aliasing on PS3, as someone wrote.

http://static.pici.se/pictures/nDLuSefEz.jpg

You would need to switch those photos around to make that comparison as in the PS3 left-hand screen the kerb is more at the foreground and 360 more in the background.

Maybe DotCal50 can do that if he has the both pics.
 

JB1981

Member
Timedog said:
I'm guessing that on my hdtv I'd like the clarity of the 360 version more. The ps3 one seems kind of blurry. I like the ps3 color palette a lot better though.

That's precisely what I'm thinking.

Decision, decisions.
 

davygee

Banned
Also, wouldn't you need to sit back like 10 metres from a 60 inch screen. As the PS3 version will look blurry on a screen that size due to the AA whereas the 360 will look sharper.

It will have a lot to do with the type of LCD/Plasma as well as size.
 
CorwinB said:
IIRC, RSX can't do FP16 and MSAA at the same time.

G70 couldn't but I always thought it was a direct x problem. If coded to the metal, I'd be surprised to learn RSX had the same limitation.
 
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