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[Steve Youngblood]

Heh, poster takes time to craft a cool OT, entitled gaf wants less effort and less grandness. Whats on the agenda to complain about next?

The conversation contained in this thread -- bickering aside -- is one of trying to ascertain the utility of such large OTs vs. the alternatives. Now, I'm certainly not an authority in regards to how to run a community, so I can only weigh in with my perspective. And part of that perspective is in attempting to elucidate that posts like your's kind of miss the point.

Now, that's not to say that your conclusion -- that big OTs are okay if not preferable -- is wrong. However, I don't think the rationale employed to justify it is satisfactory. Sure, there's not something inherently wrong with posters putting in this kind of effort to make an OT, but conceding that point doesn't automatically yield the conclusion that giant OTs are more beneficial to fostering discussion than other approaches. Posts that amount to "don't like it, then you're an entitled whiner" aren't helping the discussion.

In attempting to justify one approach or another, best practices for this kind of thing can be weighed via getting a feel for what the consensus is. Obviously, if a plethora of people here love going through all of these fine details presented in these OTs that span multiple posts, then the people like me who would favor a more concise approach are outnumbered and can safely assume that we are needlessly complaining about this, as the people have spoken and it's not a big deal anyway.

However, if it becomes clear that the people who actually enjoy these, and not just in an "I scrolled quickly past the OPs posts and sure did think it was pretty" sense, represent a small minority of forum-goers, then these posts are a waste. If you concede this premise, then these threads have spiraled out of control and become a pointless exercise in one-upsmanship. Again, I'm not saying that this is the case, but if it is, why would we encourage people wasting their time to create these monstrosities that few care about when they actually have a detrimental effect on informing as many people as possible about the title and do little to foster discussion?

That's the point of it all. Mind you, I'm sure there are better things more deserving of consideration. However, this is a message board dedicated to discussing video games. As such, that argument carries little weight. If you like the big OTs, then more power to you. However, there's no reason to propose that this type of criticism is indicative of nothing more than people being a bunch of entitled whiners. There's merit to the discussion even if the ultimate conclusion is that the threads are fine as is.

 

[Infernodash]

If you ignore valid reasons, then there are no valid reasons. Truth hurt much, sheeple? :smug

I guess valid being in quotes didn't stand out to you.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Heh, poster takes time to craft a cool OT, entitled gaf wants less effort and less grandness. Whats on the agenda to complain about next?

Again, effort =/= quality.

And hah, entitled gaf... This gaf guy again.

 

[diffusionx]

For me the most damning thing is the broken links. Someone posted an OT from a few weeks ago that is useless because of broken links. The Ass Bro one, same thing, from last year.

I like how different OTs can be from each other, particularly when they reflect the tone of the game they represent. Creating a rubric for what can/cannot be in an OT might lead to a heap of bland threads...

No, bland posting is what makes a bland thread. Are people forgetting that the point of a discussion forum is to discuss? The original post is just a conversation starter. It just kicks things off. What makes the thread is the discussion.

I would argue that an OP that incites dozens of "wow awesome OT" posts and shit like that has failed in regards to the real point of an OP. But that's just me.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I guess valid being in quotes didn't stand out to you.

Right, you're dismissing valid reasons as invalid, because anyone who disagrees with you is clearly a liar who can't handle the truth.

 

[Metroid Killer]

Heh, poster takes time to craft a cool OT, entitled gaf wants less effort and less grandness. Whats on the agenda to complain about next?

No do you think we just complain for the sake of complaining. Most people are using the thread to give their 2 cents on how to do a OT in the best possible, this has nothing about brining down the works of certain users, it's about how to improve the OT and forum as a whole.

Edit: Pretty much what Ookami said we want all the effort to go into better quality. Now quality is pretty much subjective, but then again that is the reason why we are having this discourse, to find out where most of gafs stands on the subject.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I guess the shoe fits. I don't see the OTs as a problem, there are those that do. "valid" reasons aside, the roots sounds like belly aching. Sorry the truth hurts so much.

The truth that you can't read? The only truth is that to you it sounds like belly aching, which says more about your inability to follow the discussion than anything else.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

That OT was amazing.

 

[Kilrogg]

That Assassin's Creed OT could serve as the manual for the game. What a monstrosity.

Just as NeoGAF didn't become popular by being bloated with useless functionalities and over-expansive content, an OT can't be successful if it's full of stuff that keeps people from finding relevant info and slows down the loading and reading processes. Good grief...

 

[Boss Doggie]

I just realized that it sounds like how the people who like Christopher Paolini's works react on criticism.

 

[Infinite Justice]

Just stick to 1 post (2 if absolutely nesscesary) and your done.

 

[RDreamer]

So, are the creators of these OTs using them in their portfolios?

Why should that matter? I wouldn't advise it, but I suppose they very well could. What's wrong with designing something for fun and not for a portfolio anyway? I've designed some fan things that aren't going in my portfolio anytime soon. We have designers and things working on cases in that minimal cover thread. Sure a lot of them are just art put into the case template, but there are also quite a few that put some real effort into those. They're fun to do, and someone else gets enjoyment out of them, and you hone your skills a bit. Even if they never get into your portfolio, that's still plenty of benefit right there. I mean, can you put 20 hours of gaming in your resume? No? Well then why are you doing it? Because it's fun or challenging, right. Well designing things is fun and challenging to some.

 

[derFeef]

If you have an "acknowledgement" section in your OT, you've gone too far.

What, I like to thank people who helped me :/

 

[Infernodash]

The conversation contained in this thread -- bickering aside -- is one of trying to ascertain the utility of such large OTs vs. the alternatives. Now, I'm certainly not an authority in regards to how to run a community, so I can only weigh in with my perspective. And part of that perspective is in attempting to elucidate that posts like your's kind of miss the point.

Now, that's not to say that your conclusion -- that big OTs are okay if not preferable -- is wrong. However, I don't think the rationale employed to justify it is satisfactory. Sure, there's not something inherently wrong with posters putting in this kind of effort to make an OT, but conceding that point doesn't automatically yield the conclusion that giant OTs are more beneficial to fostering discussion than other approaches. Posts that amount to "don't like it, then you're an entitled whiner" aren't helping the discussion.

In attempting to justify one approach or another, best practices for this kind of thing can be weighed via getting a feel for what the consensus is. Obviously, if a plethora of people here love going through all of these fine details presented in these OTs that span multiple posts, then the people like me who would favor a more concise approach are outnumbered and can safely assume that we are needlessly complaining about this, as the people have spoken and it's not a big deal anyway.

However, if it becomes clear that the people who actually enjoy these, and not just in an "I scrolled quickly past the OPs posts and sure did think it was pretty" sense, represent a small minority of forum-goers, then these posts are a waste. If you concede this premise, then these threads have spiraled out of control and become a pointless exercise in one-upsmanship. Again, I'm not saying that this is the case, but if it is, why would we encourage people wasting their time to create these monstrosities that few care about when they actually have a detrimental effect on informing as many people as possible about the title and do little to foster discussion?

That's the point of it all. Mind you, I'm sure there are better things more deserving of consideration. However, this is a message board dedicated to discussing video games. As such, that argument carries little weight. If you like the big OTs, then more power to you. However, there's no reason to propose that this type of criticism is indicative of nothing more than people being a bunch of entitled whiners. There's merit to the discussion even if the ultimate conclusion is that the threads are fine as is.

First, I'd like to say that I am not against rational discourse. My reply was facetious and mainly tongue in cheek. I understand the arguments against grand OTs, but I don't agree with them. I find them useful for their purpose and I appreciate the effort provided as I normally read through them thoroughly.

I can sum up and counter each argument, but that's not something I want to do, as many counter arguments have been presented already.

I just find that there are an increase in threads mainly meant for complaining about neogaf. They seem to pop up every week and they're almost always trivial at best. I mean look at this thread title, "Bloated, PR paste-bin |OT|s are a plague on these boards." The title alone reeks of exaggeration. It's hard not to enter the thread without being facetious.

 

[Infernodash]

The truth that you can't read? The only truth is that to you it sounds like belly aching, which says more about your inability to follow the discussion than anything else.

I think it speaks more about my inability to take it seriously. However, if equating it to my reading comprehension makes you feel better, then by all means, have at it.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I think it speaks more about my inability to take it seriously. However, if equating it to my reading comprehension makes you feel better, then by all means, have at it.

I already feel fantastic actually!

Surely you can at least see how moronic it is to defend bloated OTs because of all the effort they require, while broadly and collectively dismissing the argument of the other side?

 

[Metroid Killer]

I mean look at this thread title, "Bloated, PR paste-bin |OT|s are a plague on these boards." The title alone reeks of exaggeration. It's hard not to enter the thread without being facetious.

Agreed, far from the best way to start off this thread. The same with posters making personal attacks at makers of big OTs. But I assume most people on gaf are mature/wise enough to disregard the shit surrounding the gold nuggets.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Or some of us are aware that ghst has a particular way of posting and don't let it bother us because if you pay attention he has a lot of interesting and insightful things to say. Which is more than I can say for his detractors.

 

[Sleep Arrest]

I'd say OP's should be limited to 2 posts. That Assassins Creed thread is crazy, when you print it, it probably ends up having more pages than the manual that comes with the game.

Definitely does, considering that ubisoft makes 0 page manuals now.

 

[Zing]

I don't agree with the wording that huge OTs are a "plague", as a huge OT doesn't affect other threads.

I do agree that the liberal use of images containing text harms information dissemination. Also, OTs with content largely pulled from the official website seem redundant.

Otherwise, bloated OTs aren't hurting my internet.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I notice that people aren't disputing the suggestion that making the OP for an OT a love-letter to the game (or developer, that Uncharted 3 thread title is embarrassing) creates an echo-chamber effect which has a negative effect on discussion in the thread.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

This is for enzo_gt. After some more thought I think you could improve the UMVC3 OT with the following changes:

1. Reduce the size of the top banner image. Make it one third to one half of the height it is now. The banner is taller than my laptop monitor height; that's overkill.
2. Except for section headers, replace all jpeg-text with plain text.
3. Remove the character bios section entirely. At most, all the OP needs for the new characters is an avatar-sized image of each new character that links to that character's wiki page. These could all fit on one, maybe two rows.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

One more thing to think about for people making OTs. If you want your thread to get a lot of views, posting all the text content as real text means google can index the thread better, so it'll be more likely to come up when people search google for info about the game.

 

[Pete Rock]

If you want your thread to get a lot of views, posting all the text content as real text means google can index the thread better, so it'll be more likely to come up when people search google for info about the game.

To me it's also an issue of accessibility. Embedded text does not index, nor does it scale readily across resolutions or devices. The fact that we have people making OT's that amount to little more than dumping a dozen hours into Photoshop while throwing all legibility and style guidelines to the winds is laughable at best. Particularly when instead of using transparency, they try to match the background color, which doesn't work with the alternating post bg colors. I won't name names.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

To me it's also an issue of accessibility. Embedded text does not index, nor does it scale readily across resolutions or devices. The fact that we have people making OT's that amount to little more than dumping a dozen hours into Photoshop while throwing all legibility and style guidelines to the winds is laughable at best. Particularly when instead of using transparency, they try to match the background color, which doesn't work with the alternating post bg colors. I won't name names.

Oh, I know. But I've already given like 8 reasons in this thread why jpeg-text is a bad idea. I'm just throwing in one more.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Well designing things is fun and challenging to some.

I have so many problems with "but its about design!" as an excuse for a post fundamentally failing in the very concept which it was created for - disseminating information.

Have images turned off? Useless OT.
Using a lower resolution screen? Useless OT.
Abload purges images at some point? Useless OT.
Not 100%ed a previous game yet, but interested in this one? Massive spoilers, unavoidably inlined and unmarked. Useless OT.

The OP posting in this thread ignoring all criticism and saying the only people who could possibly dislike it are haters gonna hate and they should grow some balls does little to assuade my concerns that that thread has no fucking clue who it is supposed to be aimed at and has thrown every fucking random factoid possible in along with the kitchen sink does not speak to me of a design exercise.

Good design is where there is nothing left to remove.

I don't agree with the wording that huge OTs are a "plague", as a huge OT doesn't affect other threads.

I disagree.

This thread may have been spurred on by the AC:R OT, but that is just the latest (and particularly egregious) example of a trend that has been emerging of OTs that are more about one-upmanship with other OT creators than about conveying key facts of the game in question.

This is also not the only thread there has been recently where a number of posters have expressed their distaste for multiple post imagefests and the replacement of information with purdy pictures.

"Plague" is obviously used as humorous exaggeration, but there are a number of posters who - regardless of what game is being discussed - are shying away from OTs due to this trend, and would like to see a return to informational content over "stylistic" self-congratulationary onanism and "GRATE OP!" being the only posts for multiple pages.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Good design is where there is nothing left to remove.

So you're saying brevity is the soul of wit, and before you leave the house, take one thing off?

I'm not sure if that's so much design as it is editing, but I'd agree that editing is so essential and so undervalued in almost every creative exercise.

Maybe GAF is like TV and some of us think it's our job to be repetitive. Our job. Repetitiveness is our job.

 

[Shanadeus]

How about Multiplayer modes/maps/classes and info? Those are very important for games who rely heavily on MP. Don´t you go decide what´s important info and what´s not.

That goes into basic gameplay.
That is, listing the different modes/maps/classes.

But having a write up for each weapon (with in-game lore) is going over the top.

 

[godofcookery]

I really did think much of these OTs are over the top. But conversely, i read through practically every detail of the UMvC3 OT because I really do enjoy that game, and I poured over all the character details/ art too.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Honestly, designer people should learn about Purple Prose.

 

[Puddles]

I think the best way to take care of the problem is to get rid of the secret section of GAF where members can build OTs in advance. This would pretty much eliminate multiple-post OPs, unless they could get a second post in before anyone else replied.

 

[Lothars]

This is for enzo_gt. After some more thought I think you could improve the UMVC3 OT with the following changes:

1. Reduce the size of the top banner image. Make it one third to one half of the height it is now. The banner is taller than my laptop monitor height; that's overkill.
2. Except for section headers, replace all jpeg-text with plain text.
3. Remove the character bios section entirely. At most, all the OP needs for the new characters is an avatar-sized image of each new character that links to that character's wiki page. These could all fit on one, maybe two rows.

I disagree with number 3, I think the way he did it is extremely fitting for the type of game because it gives a description of the new characters along with the videos as links.

I agree with 1 and 2 though, it would be better if the jpeg-text was replaced with plain text.

 

[FeD.nL]

What is the function of an OT? Discussing the first page/post or getting people to start sensible discussions about a game and its mechanics?

Spoiler

It's a retorical question..

 

[Korosenai]

Bunch of babies in here. It's just a forum, and the ot's are avoidable. It's not like they're on every page, and the first page is usually filled up in 5 minutes. And on top of all of that, the ot is for information on the game. If you don't want to know about the game, then don't read it.

The world isn't going to end if the ot is 10 posts long. You're not going to die. You're going to live, and everything will be alright. Just step away from the computer for a bit, then come back and maybe everything will be just fine.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Bunch of babies in here. It's just a forum, and the ot's are avoidable. It's not like they're on every page, and the first page is usually filled up in 5 minutes. And on top of all of that, the ot is for information on the game. If you don't want to know about the game, then don't read it.

The world isn't going to end if the ot is 10 posts long. You're not going to die. You're going to live, and everything will be alright. Just step away from the computer for a bit, then come back and maybe everything will be just fine.

I'm right there with you. Personally, I find all criticism to be worthless. What's the point of discussing the merits of anything when the fact of the matter is that if you don't like something, you can just ignore it.

It's like my mom always said, "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." It was great advice for me as I ventured out into the brave new frontier of kindergarten and hadn't developed social skills or the need to filter thought, and it's still great advice today.

 

[iNvid02]

I have so many problems with "but its about design!" as an excuse for a post fundamentally failing in the very concept which it was created for - disseminating information.

Have images turned off?
thats entirely your own problem, no thread should have to cater for people who have images turned off.

Using a lower resolution screen? Useless OT.
the max image size was 1100px, apart from a few low res netbooks, ancient monitors and phones it displays
fine on everything. plenty of other threads are the same size if not more, there's also browser zoom functions and extensions that can adjust the browser res.

Abload purges images at some point? Useless OT.
abload never deletes images. the last thread i made was using a small,
unknown host who had to shut down a few months later. abload is not going anywhere.


Not 100%ed a previous game yet, but interested in this one? Massive spoilers, unavoidably inlined and unmarked. Useless OT.
the games are heavily story dependent, the previous ones started literally seconds after each other. if your jumping into
this one without playing at least brotherhood you will have no clue as to whats going on. its also easy to avoid the recaps because they are at the bottom of the thread with all the relevant info on acr near the top.

other complaints?

"i hate text in images because i cant read it or ctrl+f"
you can zoom in with extensions or your browser and its perfectly readable unless you have some major vision problems. in the first post there is a menu with links to each section making the thread quite easy to navigate. text in images is not ideal, but its the only thing i could do.

 

[SmokyDave]

I'm right there with you. Personally, I find all criticism to be worthless. What's the point of discussing the merits of anything when the fact of the matter is that if you don't like something, you can just ignore it.

It's like my mom always said, "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." It was great advice for me as I ventured out into the brave new frontier of kindergarten and hadn't developed social skills or the need to filter thought, and it's still great advice today.

Sometimes I think I may have a crush on you, Steve.

Don't worry, I'm relatively harmless.

 

[Korosenai]

I'm right there with you. Personally, I find all criticism to be worthless. What's the point of discussing the merits of anything when the fact of the matter is that if you don't like something, you can just ignore it.

It's like my mom always said, "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." It was great advice for me as I ventured out into the brave new frontier of kindergarten and hadn't developed social skills or the need to filter thought, and it's still great advice today.

I completely agree.

And I don't really want to bash people, but if you're on here complaining that ot's are too long on a video game forum (where ot's are supposed to give you information on the game before it comes out), you need help.

 

[notworksafe]

other complaints?

"i hate text in images because i cant read it or ctrl+f"
you can zoom in with extensions or your browser and its perfectly readable unless you have some major vision problems. in the first post there is a menu with links to each section making the thread quite easy to navigate. text in images is not ideal, but its the only thing i could do.

A lot of effort to justify a poor thread, though understandable as you put a lot of work into it. What about people with vision issues? Anyone requiring a text-to-speech program is not able to get any real info from your thread. It's not like using text would have been more work...in fact it would have been less.

And before you bitch about character limit it wouldn't have been an issue if you narrowed your focus onto a single game, just like a single game OT is supposed to do. As I suggested before, making a series OT (like Zelda, Pokemon, SMT, and others) and linking to it in your single game OT would have been a much better idea.

I'm sure you'll find a way to dismiss my points though, perhaps by mentioning that anyone with vision issues should just get better glasses. Have fun!

 

[iNvid02]

there could have been 2 separate threads yeah, one for the previous games and one for rev, but the fact that each game starts moments after the last unlike the games you mentioned, and that this is the last game for the 2 main characters which will wrap up all 3 previous titles, means they're too closely linked to just throw them into a separate thread. of course you would have known this if you had any interest in the series or knew what you were talking about. have fun

 

[Irish]

A lot of the text is already plain text. A lot. Of course, the two posts that discuss the gameplay improvements are indeed imgtxt.

I still find it funny your using those particular series where nothing from the previous games are relevant to the game at hand. The AC series, MGS series, and a few others are where OTs like the AC:R one are needed.

Don't get me wrong, there was also some unnecessary stuff in the thread, but, for the most part, it was all pretty sound.

 

[.la1n]

MGS4 OT was awesome. Only part I actually paid attention to was the release date, though.

This, since that OT though the bloated ones have essentially been crap.

 

[Volcynika]

there could have been 2 separate threads yeah, one for the previous games and one for rev, but the fact that each game starts moments after the last unlike the games you mentioned, and that this is the last game for the 2 main characters which will wrap up all 3 previous titles, means they're too closely linked to just throw them into a separate thread. of course you would have known this if you had any interest in the series or knew what you were talking about. have fun

I like how you keep throwing this poor assumption around about people. It's really funny.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

thats entirely your own problem, no thread should have to cater for people who have images turned off.

I understand this response if someone is complaining that the latest "new screenshots of Game X" thread is worthless with images turned off, but not when you're countering a complaint that you're embedding text needlessly in images. I'm honestly not trying to be confrontational or anything, but I think you can give the criticism a little more thought before just dismissing that people who don't meet your ideal web-browsing audience are out of luck. This is particularly true when a (some would even suggest more-desirable) alternative exists: displaying text as text. Whether you ultimately agree or not is up to you, but it's worth considering that perhaps you made a choice that wasn't perfect. Should you ever want to do professional design work for clients, taking critique seriously -- even if you stick to your guns -- will serve you well.

 

[notworksafe]

there could have been 2 separate threads yeah, one for the previous games and one for rev, but the fact that each game starts moments after the last unlike the games you mentioned, and that this is the last game for the 2 main characters which will wrap up all 3 previous titles, means they're too closely linked to just throw them into a separate thread. of course you would have known this if you had any interest in the series or knew what you were talking about. have fun

Yep. Beat all three previous games and the PSP game but I have no clue as to what I am talking about. Come on son, no need to be a judgmental type when you have no clue what you are judging.

Each mobile game, iPhone game, soundtrack, book, comic, movie, piece of merchandise, etc isn't in the same very close timeframe and you know this. (AC2, Brohood, PSP spoilers coming)

Spoiler

Not to mention that by starting "moments after the other" you mean only for Desmond, whose story isn't ending in this game (as far as we know). Only Ass2 and Brohood start right after one another for the in-Animus character. IIRC the first PSP game is Altair solo and doesn't even involve the Animus (it's been a while so my memory is fuzzy).

Either way, the timeframe is irrelevant IMO. THe backstory of everything AssCreed related didn't need to be included in the thread itself. Your single game OT could have put a small paragraph describing the story of the game while linking to the post in the series OT for a more detailed explanation. Putting it in the single game thread and bloating it up wasn't needed.

And your post doesn't even respond to my point made about the heavily vision impaired. Putting in less image text is essential for people using text-to-speech and actually makes less work for thread makers.

 

[iNvid02]

I understand this response if someone is complaining that the latest "new screenshots of Game X" thread is worthless with images turned off, but not when you're countering a complaint that you're embedding text needlessly in images. I'm honestly not trying to be confrontational or anything, but I think you can give the criticism a little more thought before just dismissing that people who don't meet your ideal web-browsing audience are out of luck. This is particularly true when a (some would even suggest more-desirable) alternative exists: displaying text as text. Whether you ultimately agree or not is up to you, but it's worth considering that perhaps you made a choice that wasn't perfect. Should you ever want to do professional design work for clients, taking critique seriously -- even if you stick to your guns -- will serve you well.

the problem is that being a forum you cant align text side by side, everything must be on a new line. if some of that text was just text, it would have gone on much longer vertically and eaten up the post character limit. its not worth cutting the info out if a viable alternative option exists - text in images. its not ideal and a few people will have issues, but it will suffice for the majority. where i could use regular text i did, where i couldn't i opted for the only alternative.

@ notworksafe

i openly admit i did not plan for the thread to be accessible to the heavily vision impaired..

 

[Irish]

the problem is that being a forum you cant align text side by side, everything must be on a new line. if some of that text was just text, it would have gone on much longer vertically and eaten up the post character limit. its not worth cutting the info out if a viable alternative option exists - text in images. its not ideal and a few people will have issues, but it will suffice for the majority. where i could use regular text i did, where i couldn't i opted for the only alternative.

He did- Number of words able to be copied in the OP: 10,476

 

[Sciz]

the problem is that being a forum you cant align text side by side, everything must be on a new line. if some of that text was just text, it would have gone on much longer vertically and eaten up the post character limit. its not worth cutting the info out if a viable alternative option exists - text in images. its not ideal and a few people will have issues, but it will suffice for the majority. where i could use regular text i did, where i couldn't i opted for the only alternative.

Don't alternate text and images all the time. The technique only works well in print, where the reader can see a whole page at once and there's no need to worry about alternative viewing methods and formatting. Place images side by side to use up the whitespace, and then put the relevant text above or below the image line. You'll get all the same data into nearly the same amount of space. The pretty formatting takes a hit, but it's much more readable and useable across a wider variety of situations than massive images are.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

I completely agree.

And I don't really want to bash people, but if you're on here complaining that ot's are too long on a video game forum (where ot's are supposed to give you information on the game before it comes out), you need help.

Different people need different amounts of information. The ACR thread appears to be written exclusively for die-hard fans of the series. People who just need a few key pieces of information, or want some quick gaffer impressions about the game are going to get a lot less out of the OP. I feel that the latter composes the majority of people who browse GAF.

 

[notworksafe]

@ notworksafe

i openly admit i did not plan for the thread to be accessible to the heavily vision impaired..

Just something to consider for future threads.

Like I said, it's clear you put a lot of work into the thread and it is very attractive. There's no denying that and I'm not trying to say you don't care about the game or series. Just got to think of those that can't read text in images when you can.

EDIT: And I think the two thread method might solve a lot of problems in the future, though it is a bit more work. I guess it depends on the series. Mario wouldn't need it but something with a connected story would make better use of that method.