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Bungie explains why Destiny 2 is 30 FPS on consoles, even the PS4 Pro (CPU limits)

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
39,031
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Who says destiny on PS4 was at peak performance? The weaker XBO matched its resolution and frame rate.
Bungie choose parity since beginning.

PS4 = XB1
Pro = Scorpio

That is what will happen... I Souls love to see 4 different versions on console but it won't happen.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Feb 2, 2006
35,291
12
1,305
Just one raid isn't fine. It isn't necessarily horrible, but isn't fine.

Nah, it's perfectly fine. I don't think they should ever have two Raids released at once.

That being said, I want to see Raids release with every expansion. Unlike Destiny 1, which had one at launch and then three months later for Expansion I but not for Expansion II a few months after that, I expect every $20 expansion to have a Raid and of course expect the yearly retail expansion to have one as well.

Showing of the same enemies that were in D1 in your main reveal that you use to build up initial hype isn't fine. It's either telling of a very samey game, or it's incredibly stupid. But it sure as hell isn't fine.

Sure it is. Because they showed off a number of new Cabal enemies. I'm sure there will be new enemies in other races too but right now, it's focused on Cabal.
 

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
39,031
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Just one raid isn't fine. It isn't necessarily horrible, but isn't fine.
It is not fine... it is perfect.

One Raid at launch... 3 months late a new Raid... more 3 months a new Raid.

Nobody expect more than one Raid at launch (I mean it will be only unlocked at some weeks).
 
Jan 12, 2010
8,816
169
965
Every time this thread pops up my head automatically shakes itself. Not that I didn't expect it, it's just Bungie being so damn Bungie, for better or worse.
 

mhayze

Member
Aug 23, 2009
1,107
0
0
In my own world
It is not fine... it is perfect.

One Raid at launch... 3 months late a new Raid... more 3 months a new Raid.

Nobody expect more than one Raid at launch (I mean it will be only unlocked at some weeks).

I will be astonished if there are 3 raids within 6 months of launch.
 

molnizzle

Member
Jul 14, 2013
8,593
183
630
Just one raid isn't fine. It isn't necessarily horrible, but isn't fine.

One raid is exactly how it should be. Then another added a few months in that requires you to be better geared. That's how raid progression works in every MMO that's ever been.
 

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
39,031
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Brazil
I will be astonished if there are 3 raids within 6 months of launch.
I expect 3 expansion per year... so 3 new Raids per year.

Year 1: Destiny 2 vanilla >> Expansion 1 >> Expansion 2
Year 2: Expansion 3 with retail release >> Expansion 4 >> Expansion 5

Each new expansion with a new Raid.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Feb 2, 2006
35,291
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I will be astonished if there are 3 raids within 6 months of launch.

That was the original plan for Destiny 1 and they got close to that so I'm not sure why it would be that crazy.

Remember, Destiny launched with a Raid and got another one only three months later with Expansion I (Dark Below). So it almost happened.

The original plan was for Expansion II (House of Wolves) to come out 3 months later and include another new Raid. But HoW got pushed back and came out 5 months later, without a Raid, as they were focused on trying to fix all the issues with vanilla Destiny.

Also part of the original plan: retail expansion in the fall (which became The Taken King), followed by Expansion III and Expansion IV. Those plans changed because after TTK, they moved to focus on a legitimate sequel that would fix all of the back end issues with Destiny 1.

Expansions III and IV never happens while Rise of Iron released when Destiny 2 was originally planned to. RoI only exists because they needed something due to the Destiny 2 delay.

The original road map:



Knowing what we know about Destiny 2, I believe this is the general outline they are going back to. And I personally believe they'll be able to do it now that they have all of their development ducks in a row.
 

KageMaru

Member
Oct 6, 2010
9,910
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Bungie choose parity since beginning.

PS4 = XB1
Pro = Scorpio

That is what will happen... I Souls love to see 4 different versions on console but it won't happen.

Who knows maybe that will happen with Destiny 2. The game will be more demanding since they are focusing on current gen systems, so maybe it'll be sub-1080p (or dynamic resolution) on XBO, 1080p on PS4, CB 4K on Pro, and native 4K on Scorpio.
 
Feb 28, 2015
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Gaf (straw)Man in: The Curious Case of the CPU-bound Video Game! Oversimplified collector's edition

This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, places and incidents either are products of the author’s imagination or are used fictitiously. Any resemblance to actual events or locales or persons, living or dead, is entirely coincidental.


Frame rate: 30
What is this? A 30 fps video game! Fret not! Gaf man is here to save the day! Clearly they have sacrificed the fluidity of the game for fancy (checkerboarded) 4K. Let us turn down the resolution to 1080p.


Frame rate: 30
Alas! That was not enough! We will have to crank it down further! 720p here we go!


Frame rate: 30
Somehow, this isn't working. I guess we just haven't gone down enough. 480p, here we go!


Frame rate: 30
You know what? Graphics are overrated. Destiny 2 would be far better as an artistic experience that replicates blindness. How about we render nothing at all?


Frame rate: 35
Progress! Gaf man has cracked yet another case!

Dude. This is hilarious.
 

bourgeois

Member
Apr 1, 2010
1,175
17
890
Who knows maybe that will happen with Destiny 2. The game will be more demanding since they are focusing on current gen systems, so maybe it'll be sub-1080p (or dynamic resolution) on XBO, 1080p on PS4, CB 4K on Pro, and native 4K on Scorpio.
They've had three more years to tweak the engine since D1, they know the old boxes intimately, and D2 looks mighty similar to the last game. It won't be sub 1080 on X1 in my view. Agree with the other guesses.
 

dogen

Member
Oct 23, 2012
1,454
44
480
Having no spare GPU time suggests a GPU bottleneck, which is clearly not the case here according to Bungie devs. If that was the case, they'd just drop the resolution.

I'm not so sure if they use GPGPU or if they max out all CPU cores (like Doom does)... for all I know, Destiny 2 could be a single-threaded game that requires higher clocks/IPC

Don't think so..

http://advances.realtimerendering.com/destiny/gdc_2015/
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Jun 1, 2013
8,433
2,396
770
Wait a minute,

When this gen started it was 0-0, no install base lead with current gen.

I forgot what the parity excuse was then, but now it's to not piss off PS4 users?

And the PS4 is the reason for it now, like the orig XBO doesnt exists anymore?

What alternate universe have I woken up in....

Gotta agree with those saying the Scorpio kool aid is real.
 

Zok310

Member
Apr 29, 2013
2,128
264
585
Saying they cant get it running at 1080/60fps on pro/scorpio is a joke
Yeah but after all that why would MS push 1080p when they can push 4K? I mean imagine the marking for the game, "Play Destiny 2, 4K on PS4pro and 1080p on Scorpio". No way ms pushes 1080p for Scorpio while Sony is out there pushing 4K.
 

Felix Lighter

Member
Oct 2, 2007
20,750
1
0
Maybe because you're thinking about Call of Duty?

Think more about Overwatch.

I don't know. Overwatch is game as a service done right. With decisions like avoiding dedicated server costs, I'm not convinced Destiny 2 will be supported in the way you'd expect with a game like this. It will have cosmetic microtransactions, certainly but will it get significant free content patches or will that be saved for additional paid DLC? It seems Activision/Bungie are ready to open those revenue streams but have little desire to invest much of that additional revenue into the base game. That is what keeps these games thriving on PC.
 

Tagyhag

Member
Aug 21, 2013
17,882
4
465
Los Angeles
I don't know. Overwatch is game as a service done right. With decisions like avoiding dedicated server costs, I'm not convinced Destiny 2 will be supported in the way you'd expect with a game like this. It will have cosmetic microtransactions, certainly but will it get significant free content patches or will that be saved for additional paid DLC? It seems Activision/Bungie are ready to open those revenue streams but have little desire to invest much of that additional revenue into the base game.

Well I meant in terms of community.

PC players like their loot.

You can also look at Borderlands.
 

Sanpei

Member
Apr 4, 2014
1,223
23
450
Destiny's simulation, like we have more AI, more monsters in an environment with physically simulated vehicles and characters and projectiles,

Simulation...No

More ai ?

Vehicles ?

Characters ? So every game has them

Projectiles....joking ?


Destiny has empy areas with no interactions with objects ,no destruction, not so big areas etc...

Battlefield has much more physics, players, vehicles, destruction, maps etc...And it is 60fps
 

nOoblet16

Member
Feb 1, 2010
15,340
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I am still not convinced with this especially if the graphics looks basically the same as the previous game which was even cross-gen.
This article talks about this in details: http://wccftech.com/destiny-2-could-should-run-60fps/
relating many more impressive FPS games that managed to look gorgeous while keeping 60 FPS.
How many of those games do AI (some) and how many of those have maps the size of Destiny (none)? Titanfall has canon fodder AI, Halo 5 has good AI but the density/number is never even approaching Destiny levels (yes I know Warzone is chaotic but you never have a group of 20+ enemy in one place).

And here's the absolute kicker, Rainbow Six Siege features a mode with AI and guess what happens in that mode? FPS gets locked to 30! You can unlock it and it'll run at an unstable unlocked framerate which isn't very consistent. That example alone should be enough for you to see that there are merits here to the CPU bottleneck issue that's being raised.


Also Destiny 2 does not look "basically the same", it has exactly the same art style which is where the misconception is coming from but graphically there are some hefty changes (Bokeh, PBR, particles, even volumetric lighting to name a few). PLUS it also has larger areas because it's not cross gen anymore. Infact since ROI the enemy count has doubled because of dropping last gen support. And this notion that because Destiny was cross gen it must not have been using modern technology (for its time) in any sense is frankly very wrong !

Yes there were indeed some last gen shackles which don't exist anymore...which is why you have larger areas and more enemies now !! Battlefield 4 was cross gen too but you don't have much of an upgrade in rendering technology between BF4 and BF1. BF1 looks considerably better because it uses PBR and photogrammetry both of which are related to content creation and it also has a better art...not because it is using tons of unseen rendering techniques that BF4 never used because it was cross gen. Infact in terms of the rendering tech there is little that separates BF4 and BF1.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Feb 2, 2006
35,291
12
1,305
Simulation...No

More ai ?

Vehicles ?

Characters ? So every game has them

Projectiles....joking ?


Destiny has empy areas with no interactions with objects ,no destruction, not so big areas etc...

Battlefield has much more physics, players, vehicles, destruction, maps etc...And it is 60fps

You do realize he's talking about Destiny 2 and not the original Destiny, right?

But either way, "Characters? All games have characters!" is one of the most hilariously ignorant replies to a game developer explaining something I've ever seen.
 

cakely

Member
Oct 3, 2013
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495
Chicago
Gaf (straw)Man in: The Curious Case of the CPU-bound Video Game! Oversimplified collector's edition

This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, places and incidents either are products of the author’s imagination or are used fictitiously. Any resemblance to actual events or locales or persons, living or dead, is entirely coincidental.


Frame rate: 30
What is this? A 30 fps video game! Fret not! Gaf man is here to save the day! Clearly they have sacrificed the fluidity of the game for fancy (checkerboarded) 4K. Let us turn down the resolution to 1080p.


Frame rate: 30
Alas! That was not enough! We will have to crank it down further! 720p here we go!


Frame rate: 30
Somehow, this isn't working. I guess we just haven't gone down enough. 480p, here we go!


Frame rate: 30
You know what? Graphics are overrated. Destiny 2 would be far better as an artistic experience that replicates blindness. How about we render nothing at all?


Frame rate: 35
Progress! Gaf man has cracked yet another case!

This is really quite good.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Dec 24, 2011
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720
Anyway. Next-gen consoles should avoid a CPU as complex as The Cell and an economic mobile CPU like the Jaguar ones to not face the problems of the PS3 and current-gen.
I really hope next-gen will come up with a great solution so we won't hear about such situations anymore.
 

Gorillaz

Member
Jun 13, 2012
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0
Maybe because you're thinking about Call of Duty?

Think more about Overwatch.
I think honestly it depends on when this launches on pc and how longout it will be. Unless they already said the date and I missed it.


If it's like a 6 months down the line type thing then nah. By then if you really wanted to play D2 you would have. OW was pretty much and has always been thought PC first and console later in terms of how the devs handle content and rollout. This will probably be more of a CoD case for D2. Probably not as bad as CoD but not exactly a Blizzard rollout since they are just handling it's server side stuff.
 

140.85

Cognitive Dissonance, Distilled
Jun 6, 2006
9,955
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0
I have no doubt that the talented people at Bungie could have made a Destiny 2 engine that does everything they need and run at 60.

I believe it simply wasn't a goal for them or the amount of time needed to make that engine wasn't available.
 

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
Dec 9, 2012
12,162
452
925
I have no doubt that the talented people at Bungie could have made a Destiny 2 engine that does everything they need and run at 60.

I believe it simply wasn't a goal for them or the amount of time needed to make that engine wasn't available.

the vast majority of people playing destiny probably have no idea what 30 fps even means. look at what the ratchet/clank devs had to say about 30 v 60 fps. doesn't affect review scores, doesn't affect sales, and lets you put in more eye candy.

PC is the only platform where it actually affects your bottom line
 

ZehDon

Member
Jun 13, 2013
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Maybe because you're thinking about Call of Duty?

Think more about Overwatch.
With P2P for competitive multi? Lol. Crucible is still born, PvE has a better chance, but the DLC will split the community pretty badly, and its downhill from there.
 

Omeganex9999

Member
Mar 14, 2010
714
1
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Anyway. Next-gen consoles should avoid a CPU as complex as The Cell and an economic mobile CPU like the Jaguar ones to not face the problems of the PS3 and current-gen.
I really hope next-gen will come up with a great solution so we won't hear about such situations anymore.

It's called Ryzen APU. By the time PS5 and XB2 are coming out AMD should be able to offer an APU with at least as much power as an R5 (4 core, 8 thread) and (depending on when they finalize the specs) somewhere between 8 and 13 tflops.

AMD can, we should all be excited about the new APU in general. Can't wait to have a 1000$ ultrabook for 60fps 1080p gaming.
 

bourgeois

Member
Apr 1, 2010
1,175
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890
Wtf I thought it was called PS4 Pro

Just hit the sixty fps switch and make it prettier as well.

Not sure if this is a joke post? Both the Pro and the Scorpio have been designed around boosting the resolution of current gen games so that they look good on 4K TVs. Like many, I'd prefer Bungie to target 60, but it's clear that a native refresh is not something that they value.
 

ItsTheNew

I believe any game made before 1997 is "essentially cave man art."
Mar 26, 2013
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Complex physics of bullets shooting other people...riiiiight. Explain the 360 and ps3 versions of Destiny, Bungie. Meanwhile COD and Battlefield have been doing it for years.
 

Tagyhag

Member
Aug 21, 2013
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465
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With P2P for competitive multi? Lol. Crucible is still born, PvE has a better chance, but the DLC will split the community pretty badly, and its downhill from there.

I don't see the multiplayer doing so well because there's so much better games that you could play on PC. Although since it's 4v4 I'm sure you'll find committed players.

PVE though? I see that doing just fine. Don't see why the DLC will split the community pretty badly. Destiny is treated as an MMO, which system do you think does the best with MMO's and their expansions?
 

WarpathDC

Junior Member
Oct 29, 2013
1,583
2
280
VA
That AMD SoC is like two
Atari
Jaguars duct-taped together!

Seriously though, I should have Ryzen above that joke.

(and maybe they should have thrown that one in the pro but it was about a year ahead of the ryzen launch)

I do wish the Pro and Scorpio spent a little more resources on the CPU side of things. The CPU bottleneck issue is a real thing. I'd suspect on certain games you'd get MASSIVE improvements with a faster CPU. I was all in on the PS4 Pro version until I heard of the PC release. I just wish I could PvP from a comfy couch, even with my elite controller, i'd get wrecked by kb&m vet (maybe ;) ).

I'll get the PC version and hope that it isn't too far behind. The lack of committal from bungie on the release date has me worried that the PC version may be a spring 2018 affair.

I had no issue with Destiny on Ps4 @30fps and found it to be one of the more enjoyable experiences in a long time once you get past the repetitive missions and into the endgame stuff and PvP was a blast.

It should look great on consoles, and run at a very stable fr being locked at 30 though, especially on the pro/scorpio. I do hope HDR comes in the mix and I hope they include it on the PC version too. There are plenty of PC gamers who game on a TV.

Hell, if the PC wait is too long I may be enjoying the game in 4k at 30fps on my (not so) comfy couch on the PS4 Pro.
 

rrs

Member
Nov 18, 2012
6,459
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0
Not Chicago, IL
I prefer 60 FPS myself, but as long as the game has a great input response time I wouldn't mind
Gaf (straw)Man in: The Curious Case of the CPU-bound Video Game! Oversimplified collector's edition
I love this post so much, it can also apply to FH3 before the devs fixed the CPU single thread hell
 

Izuna

Banned
Nov 23, 2010
28,331
6
0
England
Gaf (straw)Man in: The Curious Case of the CPU-bound Video Game! Oversimplified collector's edition

This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, places and incidents either are products of the author’s imagination or are used fictitiously. Any resemblance to actual events or locales or persons, living or dead, is entirely coincidental.


Frame rate: 30
What is this? A 30 fps video game! Fret not! Gaf man is here to save the day! Clearly they have sacrificed the fluidity of the game for fancy (checkerboarded) 4K. Let us turn down the resolution to 1080p.


Frame rate: 30
Alas! That was not enough! We will have to crank it down further! 720p here we go!


Frame rate: 30
Somehow, this isn't working. I guess we just haven't gone down enough. 480p, here we go!


Frame rate: 30
You know what? Graphics are overrated. Destiny 2 would be far better as an artistic experience that replicates blindness. How about we render nothing at all?


Frame rate: 35
Progress! Gaf man has cracked yet another case!

Oh god lmao.

This is freaking hilarious