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Canadian Election 2011: Blue ocean, orange crush, and a red tide washed out to sea.

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Mars said:
First year I can vote, and I'll be voting for Harper/Conservatives. All leaders are corrupt, he seems to be less so than most and doesn't act like a spineless bitch like Canada always seems to want to when it comes to interacting with other countries.

And to the guy who said "Liberalism is dead in Canada," what the fuck are you talking about. How much more liberal do you want Canada to get? How much more CAN it get?
spineless bitch? lol. the conservatives cuddle up more to the americans than the liberals have. harper supported going to iraq. luckily, the liberals chose not to. I'd love to hear one or two example of the Liberals acting like spineless bitches on the international scene.
 

explodet

Member
Zombie James said:
Layton is hammering Harper right now, election is pretty much guaranteed.

edit: Confirmed, no support.

The Globe and Mail said:
Do you think the NDP will decide to support the Conservatives’ budget?
Yes: 62%
No:32%
Not Sure: 6%
Way to be on the ball there, Globe readers.
 

SRG01

Member
explodet said:
Way to be on the ball there, Globe readers.

As much as I like the Globe and CBC, their readers are just as out to lunch compared to the National Post readers.

I would go as far as saying that comments on Canadian news sites are worse than Youtube.
 

Azih

Member
Slavik81 said:
Except endless political pandering and a lack of resolve to get actual work done.
There's a reason why most democratic governments get things done without needing to put one party in charge of everything. It's because parties in those governments know that they need to get more than 50% of the votes in order to get full power and they know that's not going to happen. The Canadian system (where you can get full power with less than 40% support) is ancient and sucks.
 

SRG01

Member
ZimJaBim said:
Nope still voting for harper. I look forward to another conservative minority government

May I ask why? Out of genuine curiosity.

I'm not voting myself, but people's reasons for their political leanings are often... strange.
 

Azih

Member
he seems to be less so than most and doesn't act like a spineless bitch like Canada
The softwood lumber agreement was Harper rolling over for the States, just like the F-35 fighter jet purchases are him bending over for the States.
 
Azih said:
There's a reason why most democratic governments get things done without needing to put one party in charge of everything. It's because parties in those governments know that they need to get more than 50% of the votes in order to get full power and they know that's not going to happen. The Canadian system (where you can get full power with less than 40% support) is ancient and sucks.

Proportional representation is desperately needed, but the problem with that is people don't know how the damn system works. Ontario tried to pass election reform by bringing in proportional representation and it failed. It really pisses me off seeing the Bloc getting half the votes the NDP gets, yet getting more seats.
 
Azih said:
The softwood lumber agreement was Harper rolling over for the States, just like the F-35 fighter jet purchases are him bending over for the States.


+1

I don't see how Ignatieff can be called spineless next to Harper, Iggy seems more suited to stand up for Canada in the world




Edit - The Reform Party always seemed to want a changed electoral system and a triple E Senate..........they seemed to drop all of that once they got power
 
BigJonsson said:
+1

I don't see how Ignatieff can be called spineless next to Harper, Iggy seems more suited to stand up for Canada in the world

He actually has international experience... which somehow is a negative?
 

anaron

Member
4672342871_3d2dae46f1.jpg


This asshole needs to go.
 

ZimJaBim

Neo Member
I am voting for the conservatives again because despite all there crap about tough on crime and political games they do a good job of managing the economy. Everyone screams about the corporate tax cuts but the Canadian dollar went from being 80 cents to over a dollar US. I work for a small manufacturing company and that has hurt us. So any tax cuts help. When Liberals start talking about green taxes and hating on the oil sands again that is going to hurt our business.

NDP is just crazy. Every additional doctor costs the government over a half million doctors. So we can talk all we want about everyone needs there own doctor but if we do that we will bankrupt the country. We need to change our healthcare model and so far no one is willing to address the issue. So if the liberals want my vote they have to put forth some serious plans as to why we need to change. All i see is Harper is evil and a bad man and thats why we need the liberals in. Not this is how we would do things differently and how we can fix the problems
 

SRG01

Member
ZimJaBim said:
I am voting for the conservatives again because despite all there crap about tough on crime and political games they do a good job of managing the economy. Everyone screams about the corporate tax cuts but the Canadian dollar went from being 80 cents to over a dollar US. I work for a small manufacturing company and that has hurt us. So any tax cuts help. When Liberals start talking about green taxes and hating on the oil sands again that is going to hurt our business.

NDP is just crazy. Every additional doctor costs the government over a half million doctors. So we can talk all we want about everyone needs there own doctor but if we do that we will bankrupt the country. We need to change our healthcare model and so far no one is willing to address the issue. So if the liberals want my vote they have to put forth some serious plans as to why we need to change. All i see is Harper is evil and a bad man and thats why we need the liberals in. Not this is how we would do things differently and how we can fix the problems

But that's the problem: The CPC haven't really done anything to manage the economy. They're incompetent at worst, and subpar at best. No party can claim credit for getting the country "out" of a recession because we rode on the US coat tails as usual. That, and the relative resilience of the Canadian economy was made possible by the previous Liberal government, which was more fiscally conservative than the current government.

That being said, the Liberals aren't doing much to recapture their big-tent center image by pandering to the left votes. They don't realize that they can't possibly swing far enough left to win NDP votes without alienating centrist/moderates.

By the way, the Liberals don't hate the oilsands. Ignatieff is pro-oilsand development. And no one has mentioned Green taxes since... well, god knows how long that's been.
 
The biggest problem so far is that none of the major parties have a strong charismatic leader with a real vision for the future of the company.

Another election isn't going to change that, and honestly, if one IS held, I'd probably prefer the Conservatives over the Liberals. The Liberals honestly just have no idea what they're doing right now, I accept they'd end up doing worse than whatever the the Conservatives do. Unless they find themselves a new Chretien or Trudeau, I expect the Conservatives to stay in power.
 

SRG01

Member
By the way, speaking as an Edmontonian, I have to comment on the health care issue. The reason why the system is overloaded as it is -- especially emergency roooms in our city -- isn't because of a fundamental flaw within the system. In fact, I highly doubt the half a million dollar stat that was randomly supplied is even true.

The real reason is that there aren't enough doctors entering high-demand front-line sectors, such as family medicine, and the restrictive caps that the government imposes on these doctors. To give you some perspective on this: every doctor's office is privately owned but publicly funded. In other words, a doctor or company has to open their own office and the government will give X dollars per patient. However, there is an artificial cap as to how much the government will pay. Couple that with an abundance of patients, and you can see why family care is in its current state -- long waits, shortage of doctors, and so forth. This effect overflows to things such as emergency care as people will simply go to the emergency ward as an alternative. This effect also affects things such as preventative care, because the family doctor is first in line for preventing many conditions.

How do we fix this? Encourage more students to specialize in family medicine, raise or eliminate the patient cap, etc.

SpectreFire said:
The biggest problem so far is that none of the major parties have a strong charismatic leader with a real vision for the future of the company.

Another election isn't going to change that, and honestly, if one IS held, I'd probably prefer the Conservatives over the Liberals. The Liberals honestly just have no idea what they're doing right now, I accept they'd end up doing worse than whatever the the Conservatives do. Unless they find themselves a new Chretien or Trudeau, I expect the Conservatives to stay in power.

All signs at this moment point to the CPC gaining seats. However, six weeks is a lot during election time and anything can happen.
 

Crazylegs

Member
SRG01 said:
But that's the problem: The CPC haven't really done anything to manage the economy. They're incompetent at worst, and subpar at best. No party can claim credit for getting the country "out" of a recession because we rode on the US coat tails as usual. That, and the relative resilience of the Canadian economy was made possible by the previous Liberal government, which was more fiscally conservative than the current government.

That being said, the Liberals aren't doing much to recapture their big-tent center image by pandering to the left votes. They don't realize that they can't possibly swing far enough left to win NDP votes without alienating centrist/moderates.

By the way, the Liberals don't hate the oilsands. Ignatieff is pro-oilsand development. And no one has mentioned Green taxes since... well, god knows how long that's been.
The Libs were not more fiscally conservative by a long shot. It's a lovely myth They tamed the deficit by taxing everything that moved. And their use of taxpayer-funded 'foundation' trustfunds was fucking criminal in how they siphoned our money to pork-barrel projects with no legal accountability to the House or Auditor-General.

As for Green Taxes and Cap-and-Trade - they do absolutely fuck all for the environment (ask the Europeans). No party has any real ideas on this file beyond using the tax system as a way to re-distribute wealth in the name of environmentalism.

Bah! Another useless election. The NDP think they can gain at the Libs expense. The Libs think they can generate more hate for Harper. In the end, we'll get another Harper minority and Iggy will be walking the plank.

/rant
 

SRG01

Member
Crazylegs said:
The Libs were not more fiscally conservative by a long shot. It's a lovely myth They tamed the deficit by taxing everything that moved. And their use of taxpayer-funded 'foundation' trustfunds was fucking criminal in how they siphoned our money to pork-barrel projects with no legal accountability to the House or Auditor-General.

As for Green Taxes and Cap-and-Trade - they do absolutely fuck all for the environment (ask the Europeans). No party has any real ideas on this file beyond using the tax system as a way to re-distribute wealth in the name of environmentalism.

Bah! Another useless election. The NDP think they can gain at the Libs expense. The Libs think they can generate more hate for Harper. In the end, we'll get another Harper minority and Iggy will be walking the plank.

/rant

I do have to agree with you on green taxes and cap/trade. They're ultimately useless.
 

Cheerilee

Member
Zombie James said:
He actually has international experience... which somehow is a negative?
It's not his skill and talent and international experience they're taking shots at, it's his loyalty and trustworthiness. Skill and talent turn to major negatives if you're not trusted.

He wasn't just gone, he was gone for a huge amount of time, he comes back to fill an obvious power void, and as soon as he comes back (before most people even learn his name) we've got footage of him calling himself a loyal American, and saying that if he doesn't get elected to power in Canada, he'll go back to America.

That's pretty brutal ammo to have against him.

SRG01 said:
But that's the problem: The CPC haven't really done anything to manage the economy. They're incompetent at worst, and subpar at best. No party can claim credit for getting the country "out" of a recession because we rode on the US coat tails as usual. That, and the relative resilience of the Canadian economy was made possible by the previous Liberal government, which was more fiscally conservative than the current government.
I still find it funny that the Conservatives first plan to survive the recession was to be tight with money, and the Dion Coalition revolted because of it, so the Conservatives flip-flopped and suddenly became loose with money, but the Dion Coalition fell apart before it even mattered.
 

Kifimbo

Member
Seems like another pointless election. Because the economy is pretty good, relatively speaking, I can't see the Conservatives losing. We'll end with another Conservatives minority government, and there is a chance they'll win a majority.

Whatever happens, at least one leader will not survive this election, possibly two.
 

Roofy

Member
Those conservative attack ads are the worst. It really annoys me that they sway people that vote and have no idea why or who they're voting for. "TV told me hes bad! im not voting for him"

Mars said:
I did not capitalize liberal.

so is it your reading comprehension or sight then?
 

Crazylegs

Member
SRG01 said:
I do have to agree with you on green taxes and cap/trade. They're ultimately useless.
I just wish they would really promote local alternative energy and the like. When I look the $1 billion being on Ontario Smart Meters, I see wasted opportunity. That could have outright bought energy-efficient appliances, solar panels, geothermal, etc. instead of a new billing system for hydro. *sigh*
 

bloodydrake

Cool Smoke Luke
our electoral process is broken..your vote is meaningless if your riding is already stacked for a particular party.
for me the NDP wins with about 80% for the last 4 federal elections(if not longer).

The party that actually follows thru on ubb as a platform will get my vote..


The bloc should be disbanded as a national party..they're whole goal as a party is to leave the country.
Any party that follows thru on proportional representation would have my vote since it would eliminate the bloc having any power.
Or to equal the playing field let other Provincial Parties run federally..I'll Vote for the Ontario federal party for purely selfish interests like all the Quebecois that vote for the bloc but don't actually want to separate.
 

explodet

Member
SRG01 said:
As much as I like the Globe and CBC, their readers are just as out to lunch compared to the National Post readers.
In some ways they're even worse, plus they've got sheer volume on their side.

SRG01 said:
I would go as far as saying that comments on Canadian news sites are worse than Youtube.
Whoa whoa whoa, let's not go nuts here....
 

bloodydrake

Cool Smoke Luke
Roofy said:
Those conservative attack ads are the worst. It really annoys me that they sway people that vote and have no idea why or who they're voting for. "TV told me hes bad! im not voting for him"

Oh please the Liberals attacks on Harper "..ohhhh whats he hiding...he's really a neocon american puppet..bla bla." have been just as bad..lets not pretend either of them are any more righteous
 

Neki

Member
SRG01 said:
But that's the problem: The CPC haven't really done anything to manage the economy. They're incompetent at worst, and subpar at best. No party can claim credit for getting the country "out" of a recession because we rode on the US coat tails as usual. That, and the relative resilience of the Canadian economy was made possible by the previous Liberal government, which was more fiscally conservative than the current government.

That being said, the Liberals aren't doing much to recapture their big-tent center image by pandering to the left votes. They don't realize that they can't possibly swing far enough left to win NDP votes without alienating centrist/moderates.

By the way, the Liberals don't hate the oilsands. Ignatieff is pro-oilsand development. And no one has mentioned Green taxes since... well, god knows how long that's been.

So who should I vote to put in power that would do a better job of managing the economy?
 

Giard

Member
bloodydrake said:
The bloc should be disbanded as a national party..they're whole goal as a party is to leave the country.

Agreed that it should be disbanded, however their goal is to protect Quebec's interests, not to leave the country.

I think it's sad that Gilles Duceppe is with the bloc, because I honestly believe he's a much better leader than Harper or Ignatieff.

Vamphuntr said:
Pourtant la réponse est tellement simple....

Tu veux parler de langue/culture? Je ne crois pas que le Québec ait besoin d'un parti au fédéral pour prouver qu'on est différents.
 

ryan-ts

Member
Zombie James said:
Layton is hammering Harper right now, election is pretty much guaranteed.

edit: Confirmed, no support.

Were you watching online? If so, where?


bloodydrake said:
Oh please the Liberals attacks on Harper "..ohhhh whats he hiding...he's really a neocon american puppet..bla bla." have been just as bad..lets not pretend either of them are any more righteous

Agreed.
 

bloodydrake

Cool Smoke Luke
Giard said:
however their goal is to protect Quebec's interests, not to leave the country.
umm i thought one of the primary goals of the bloc is the secession Quebec from Canada?
did something change recently?
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
Zombie James said:
I don't get the Ignatieff complaints about him not being charismatic or captivating enough. Compared to that wooden plank, Harper...

Who would you have a beer with? The answer is always the one who will win the elections.
 

Zzoram

Member
bloodydrake said:
Oh please the Liberals attacks on Harper "..ohhhh whats he hiding...he's really a neocon american puppet..bla bla." have been just as bad..lets not pretend either of them are any more righteous

The difference is that Harper has been attacking Ignatieff with those ads for years. Ignatieff only started hitting back this year, because the attack ads against him on TV and radio have been really successful and he feels he needs to hit back. They're still bad though, he should go positive instead of negative on Harper.

Ignatieff seems like a much, much better speaker than Harper. 34 years of university lecturing abroad probably helped him with that.
 

Giard

Member
bloodydrake said:
umm i thought one of the primary goals of the bloc is the secession Quebec from Canada?
did something change recently?

They will try and do it if it's in the province's best interest...and of course if the population wants it.

IMO none of these apply right now.
 

Crazylegs

Member
bloodydrake said:
umm i thought one of the primary goals of the bloc is the secession Quebec from Canada?
did something change recently?
You're correct. The Bloc was formed to push the soveignty agenda in Ottawa - all the while drawing a federal paycheque. Fuckers.
 

Roofy

Member
bloodydrake said:
Oh please the Liberals attacks on Harper "..ohhhh whats he hiding...he's really a neocon american puppet..bla bla." have been just as bad..lets not pretend either of them are any more righteous

well it was more commentary on attack ads in general but i do find the conservative attack ads more disingenuous whereas the liberal attack ads seem to pander more to petty nationalism
 
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